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Author Topic: Puritans, Calvanists, Hugeonots and Roman Catholics  (Read 2679 times) Average Rating: 0
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lubeltri
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« on: May 06, 2008, 12:02:14 PM »

This topic has been split from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15786.0.html

There are people that still use the term Puritan, and the United Church of Christ is the modern heir of North American Puritanism.

That is true, though I doubt Cotton Mather would recognize it were he alive today:



I would venture to guess, however, that the modern UCC has at least one remaining thing in common with their Puritan forebears---they'd still string up Catholics if given the opportunity (though for different reasons).  Smiley
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 09:46:54 PM by ozgeorge » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 02:02:25 PM »

I would venture to guess, however, that the modern UCC has at least one remaining thing in common with their Puritan forebears---they'd still string up Catholics if given the opportunity (though for different reasons).  Smiley

I know this was meant as a "joke", but given the events of history, don't you think it's in rather poor taste?
Have a look at this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Gregory_XIII_medal.jpg/800px-
Do you know what this is?
This is a photo of the medal commissioned to be struck by Pope Gregory XIII (who instituted the Gregorian Calendar) in order to commemorate the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre.
Before you make "jokes" about people wanting to string up people, you might want to look at who actually strung up whom- and then danced on their graves.






« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 02:03:52 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 03:30:08 PM »

I know this was meant as a "joke", but given the events of history, don't you think it's in rather poor taste?
Have a look at this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Gregory_XIII_medal.jpg/800px-
Do you know what this is?
This is a photo of the medal commissioned to be struck by Pope Gregory XIII (who instituted the Gregorian Calendar) in order to commemorate the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre.
Before you make "jokes" about people wanting to string up people, you might want to look at who actually strung up whom- and then danced on their graves.

George, how is this relevant?*

As for actual stringing up, you fail to remember the hundreds of thousands of Irish killed by Oliver Cromwell and the many thousands more sold into slavery. One of those slaves, Ann Glover, eventually ended up in Boston and became the last person hanged in Boston for "witchcraft."

My original point, about the Puritan/UCC parallel, remains that Puritanism as we know it was not carried down intact by its institutional descendants. The Reformed tradition has effectively been abandoned by the former Congregationalists and many Presbyterians. It is alive and well among many Baptists, traditional Presbyterian groups, and other unaffiliated churches---John MacArthur's Grace Community Church, for example.

*For clarification purposes, as George unsurprisingly took things out of context: That medal---a common feature of Protestant apologetics---was struck to commemorate the defeat of a Huguenot conspiracy against the French royal family, not the indiscriminate massacre itself (which was not fully known at the time it was struck). You also fail to consider the context of the deadly Turkish threat against Europe and the need of an undivided and stable France to face that threat. Of course, I do not endorse the mob-fueled massacre (and certainly acknowledge that Gregory XIII should have vocally condemned it); it was a great crime but not planned by any central authority, Rome included---despite George's hints.
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 04:48:42 PM »

That medal---a common feature of Protestant apologetics---was struck to commemorate the defeat of a Huguenot conspiracy against the French royal family, not the indiscriminate massacre itself
Why then does the inscription read: "UGONOTTORUM STAGES. 1572" ("HUGUENOTS SLAUGHTERED 1572")?

Why did Pope Gregory XIII commission this painting of the massacre which still adorns the Vatican throne room?:

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 06:23:45 PM »

By the way, the Vatican has yet to apologise for this. Truth be told lubeltri, I'd much rather see a photograph of a happy gay protestant couple than this sort of graphic celebration of human slaughter which is evil on a monumental scale:

« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 06:29:21 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 08:40:22 PM »

Ok, George. I'll play your game.

As a Catholic, I apologize for the massacre of Huguenots by Catholics 436 years ago and for the pope of the time's de facto justification for it.

I think John Paul II pretty much covered everything else.

Now your turn---or, if not you, ask the MP or the EP to do it. I'll be waiting...

(Update: "On the eve of the 24th of August we cannot forget the sad massacre of St. Bartholomew's Day, an event of very obscure causes in the political and religious history of France. . . Christians did things which the Gospel condemns. . .acknowledging the weaknesses of the past is an act of honesty and courage which helps us to strengthen our faith. . . I am convinced that only forgiveness, offered and received, leads little by little to a fruitful dialogue, which will in turn insure a fully Christian reconciliation." John Paul II, Aug. 24, 1997)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 08:55:34 PM by lubeltri » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 08:52:56 PM »

Ok, George. I'll play.
You started the game lubeltri.
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 08:57:35 PM »

You started the game lubeltri.

I'm still waiting, George. You threw down the gauntlet. Where are the apologies from your side, or are you spotless?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 08:59:27 PM by lubeltri » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 09:22:56 PM »

I'm still waiting, George. You threw down the gauntlet.
No, you did with your initial post. So if you want to discuss it further (which I'm happy to do) then please take it outside this thread rather than turn yet another thread into a discussion about Roman Catholicism and how hard done by it is. Especially considering that this is a thread about Protestantism.
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 09:24:15 PM »

So if you want to discuss it further (which I'm happy to do) then please take it outside

There! I've done it for you!
So what exactly do you want to ask me to do?
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 10:28:42 PM »

Read above. Again. If you want to self-righteously demand apologies of Catholic Church crimes, please offer up some for those of your Church (or point to apologies from the bishops of your communion---unlikely!).

BTW, the thread title has several misspellings.

(Again, in the midst of the complete waste of time that is this thread, you've completely missed my point about the incongruity between the old Congregationalists and their institutional descendants now part of the UCC).
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 10:35:28 PM »

Actually, all I wanted you to apologize for is this:
I would venture to guess, however, that the modern UCC has at least one remaining thing in common with their Puritan forebears---they'd still string up Catholics if given the opportunity (though for different reasons).  Smiley
Unless, of course, you have clear evidence that the UCC want to string up Catholics.....
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 11:23:59 PM »

Actually, all I wanted you to apologize for is this:Unless, of course, you have clear evidence that the UCC want to string up Catholics.....

I guess I'll have to make my 

much bigger next time, lest Ozgeorge take me seriously.
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 11:30:13 PM »

I guess I'll have to make my 
much bigger next time, lest Ozgeorge take me seriously.
I guess I'll have to make my text bigger, lest you misunderstand the point of what I'm saying:
I know this was meant as a "joke", but given the events of history, don't you think it's in rather poor taste?
Have a look at this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Gregory_XIII_medal.jpg/800px-
Do you know what this is?
This is a photo of the medal commissioned to be struck by Pope Gregory XIII (who instituted the Gregorian Calendar) in order to commemorate the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre
[/url].
Before you make "jokes" about people wanting to string up people, you might want to look at who actually strung up whom- and then danced on their graves.







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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 12:13:30 AM »

I guess I'll have to make my text bigger, lest you misunderstand the point of what I'm saying:

Goodness!  And I thought I liked big fonts...
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 02:58:02 AM »

Goodness I thought I was childish  Tongue
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