Author Topic: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast  (Read 2560 times)

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Offline Chacci

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I'm not sure where else to put this question.  So, I'm putting it here.

While listening to Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast on Ancient Faith Radio, I was struck by a quote he used. 

"The cross is the bed upon which the Divine Son of God consummates his love affair with his created, sinful, cursed, and dead bride."
 

I didn't quite understand whom Father Thomas was quoting.  I thought I might have heard Saint Thérèse de Lisieux - but I am not certain. 

Does anyone who wrote this and where it can be found?

Any help would be appreciated.

In ICXC,
Chacci


Offline Simayan

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 05:03:53 PM »
Sheesh, I've never heard that quote before! But necrophilia image makes me cringe a little.
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 05:16:35 PM »
Somehow, I also do not care for that imagery...doesn't sound very Orthodox to me... :-\but then, what do I know?
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Offline Orual

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 09:11:43 PM »
Eeeeew!  If he meant that to be taken at face value (as opposed to "this is what we DON'T believe") I think he just lost my respect.    :o

It also sounds a little Eutychian.  Double ew.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 10:01:42 PM »
It sounds repulsive at first, but I think I can understand with correct interpretation what it means.  Obviously, it's not to be taken literally.  To put it in simple terms, it sounds like he's giving a "Snow White" analogy.  The crowned prince kisses the bride to wake her up from the effects of the poisonous apple, except this "kiss" turns out to be Christ's death on the Cross.  Words like "love affair" may sound repulsive, but we have the book "Songs of Solomon" that is taken allegorically by the Church to represent Christ's relationship with the Church.  And then the idea that seems to bring people more repulsive thoughts was "necrophilia," but there's an irony, just as there's an irony to eating Christ's body and blood does not make one a "canabalist," or the irony that the death of an "incarnate God" somehow "conquers death."

I'm not sure how it's "unOrthodox" if interpreted properly.  Eutychian?  How?  How exactly can death occur let alone being nailed to the Cross if Christ was not en-fleshed, or as St. Cyril puts it "en-manned" unless the quote makes it very clear that it was only an imagination, that he really didn't die, or he really didn't feel pain on the Cross, or His humanity is not the same as ours?

Interesting quote though, nevertheless.  Good contemplative exercise, imo.
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Offline Paisius

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 12:22:32 AM »
I'm not sure where else to put this question.  So, I'm putting it here.

While listening to Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast on Ancient Faith Radio, I was struck by a quote he used. 

"The cross is the bed upon which the Divine Son of God consummates his love affair with his created, sinful, cursed, and dead bride."
 

I didn't quite understand whom Father Thomas was quoting.  I thought I might have heard Saint Thérèse de Lisieux - but I am not certain. 

Does anyone who wrote this and where it can be found?

Any help would be appreciated.

In ICXC,
Chacci



Although I personally wouldn't use that terminology I don't see anything wrong with it. The Church uses marriage imagery all the time. We just completed almost a week of "bridegroom" matins, not to mention the Paschal Stichera "see Christ the King who comes forth from the tomb as from a bridal chamber." There's nothing unusual about the love affair imagery.


Yours in Christ
Paisius
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 12:23:02 AM by Paisius »

Offline Chacci

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 12:30:33 PM »
Christ is Risen!
Truly, He is Risen!

Thanks for your replies...

To be honest, the thought of necrophilia never entered my mind - probably because this quote was given to me in context. You must listen to Father Thomas' podcast to get a better interpretation.  However, from my understanding it is as Minas explained, in relation to the Bridegroom Matins - where Christ is seen as the Groom and the Church as the bride.  The image of a Christ following his beloved, sinful, cursed, and dead bride even to death is a profound image in my mind which speaks to the great love our saviour has for us. 

I believe St Therese is a Catholic Saint - are there any of our Catholic brethren that know where this quote may have come from?

In ICXC,
Chacci

Offline EofK

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 04:51:01 PM »
If that's ever a case for mixed metaphors... or maybe clashing metaphors.  It makes sense once interpreted, but the imagery, I agree, is horrible.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 08:45:53 PM »
Saint Thérèse de Lisieux wrote/taught a lot about the 'mystical marriage', but I cannot recall ever coming across that specific quotation.

Maybe email Fr. Thomas and see where it was from?

I think it is a very interesting and powerful quotation, yet maybe one that sounds odd when translated into English.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 08:46:20 PM by Friul »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 09:09:00 PM »
I thought the quote was especially moving and very beautiful.
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Offline Orual

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 01:22:50 PM »
If that's ever a case for mixed metaphors... or maybe clashing metaphors.  It makes sense once interpreted, but the imagery, I agree, is horrible.

The image it put in my head was that movie Corpse Bride.   :o
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Offline Fr. David

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 03:09:30 PM »
If that's ever a case for mixed metaphors... or maybe clashing metaphors.  It makes sense once interpreted, but the imagery, I agree, is horrible.

Huh.  I agree with Riddikulus; I thought it was beautiful.
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 03:20:41 PM »
The quote makes sense when viewed within Cosmology. I thing it is beautiful also.
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Offline EofK

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 03:53:09 PM »
Maybe I'm just too sensitive to it.  :P  It is a good thing once I get past the initial shock.
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Offline Simayan

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 04:34:04 PM »
If that's ever a case for mixed metaphors... or maybe clashing metaphors.

To quote Frasier, "While you were over there mixing metaphors like a Cuisinart, I had a breakthrough."
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."

Offline EofK

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Re: Quote in Father Thomas Hopko's "Great and Holy Week - Part 1" Podcast
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2008, 02:58:34 PM »
^LOL!  Oh, I miss Frasier.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams