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Offline samkim

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length of paschal service
« on: April 22, 2008, 07:14:00 PM »
Usually, how long does the midnight liturgy for Pascha last?
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline EofK

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 07:34:23 PM »
It's usually around three hours, depending on how fast the chanters go.  :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 07:34:38 PM by EofK »
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 09:03:29 PM »
Usually, how long does the midnight liturgy for Pascha last? 

Depending on which jurisdiction, anywhere between 2 1/2 hours and 4 hours, iirc.

In the Greek tradition, there are 4 parts to the Midnight service:

1. Mini-vigil - about 45-50 minutes of chanting the canon and some hymns from Friday night.
2. Resurrection! - 10 minutes or so, approximating the Holy Fire service of Jerusalem (spreading the Light, gospel)
3. Matins - some places really cut this part, so this is where the most variability enters the equation.  The popular Holy Week books have severely truncated the Matins service, so it may take no more than 15 minutes, or it could go the (proper) full 45-60 minutes.
4. Divine Liturgy w/ the Catechetical Homily of St. John Chrysostom - However long your church takes for Divine Liturgy, add about 15-20 minutes, and there you have it.

I hope this is helpful.
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Offline Thomas

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 08:22:22 AM »
Having been to Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, and Antiochian versions your summary is right on the mark.

Thomas
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Offline FrChris

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 08:43:42 AM »
Another big issue is the number of people who will receive the Eucharist, and the number of clergy who can hold a chalice and distribute the Eucharist.

My parish will have close to 1000 people stay to receive. Fortunately we have 2 priests, but even at that the time to commune people will stretch past the 30 minute mark, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Your parish may even have a longer time for this!
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Offline TinaG

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2008, 08:55:19 AM »
My parish will have close to 1000 people stay to receive.

Fr. Chris - that must be an amazing sight.  Where do you put them all - overflow onto the front steps, basement?  Not to sound too gloomy, but wouldn't it be a blessing if even just 1/10 of all those people who mysteriously appear for Pascha at our parishes would continue to come for year round Liturgy.  Many of these people are the "red egg crowd".  Show up, light their candles, and get a red egg.  Church done for one whole year.  We have better luck getting perfect strangers to come to our churches than the baptized, but drifted folks.  Something to think about and pray for change.
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Offline FrChris

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2008, 10:11:28 AM »
Fr. Chris - that must be an amazing sight.  Where do you put them all - overflow onto the front steps, basement?

Actually, we do have an overflow crowd that goes out the doors and onto the sidewalk. The Cathedral is rated by the Fire Department to be able to accommodate 454 people, and so of course we are certain that this number is never exceeded at any time, otherwise we would be in violation of local occupancy ordinances and liable for fines (ahem). 

Our last census showed we have 1300-1400 people in the parish, of which 950 or so will stay to commune, so we still have close to a third get their light and then leave as the chanters chant how "the enemies of God are scattered and flee"...they probably don't get to hear the irony.

There are some photos of the parish on the photo page of this site. I'm just glad we got our bell tower repaired by Holy Week. It was in danger of collapse, and having bricks, mortar, and bells fall on the crowds outside while celebrating the Resurrection would be beyond tragic.

We have better luck getting perfect strangers to come to our churches than the baptized, but drifted folks.  Something to think about and pray for change.

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Offline Didymus

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2008, 10:47:04 AM »
Do you mean the one Friday night - Saturday that starts at 11pm and ends around dawn or 6am or the one Saturday night - Sunday that starts at 7pm and ends sometime around midnight to 1am depending on how long Holy Communion takes?
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2008, 10:52:52 AM »
Do you mean the one Friday night - Saturday that starts at 11pm and ends around dawn or 6am or the one Saturday night - Sunday that starts at 7pm and ends sometime around midnight to 1am depending on how long Holy Communion takes? 

The discussion is centered around the Saturday-Sunday one.
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Offline Didymus

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2008, 11:26:24 AM »
The discussion is centered around the Saturday-Sunday one.

In that case, 5 to 6 hours.
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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 11:30:07 AM »
In that case, 5 to 6 hours. 

You've stirred my interest: what services does the Coptic Church do during the Pascha vigil? (i.e. what are you doing in the 5-6 hours?)
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 11:45:12 AM »
You've stirred my interest: what services does the Coptic Church do during the Pascha vigil? (i.e. what are you doing in the 5-6 hours?)

If I'm not mistaken, the whole Coptic Paschal Liturgy in on youtube (over several in fact).
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 12:02:43 PM »
4+ hours in the Greek churches here.

Offline tuesdayschild

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 10:00:12 PM »
Christ is Risen!

Related to the original question, what time did your parish's Pascha service begin?  Either 11:00 PM or 11:30 PM seems customary, drawn from my informal survey of parish web pages.  Any earlier than this?

Offline Fr. George

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 10:50:20 PM »
Both my current parish and my home parish start at 11:00 - doing so puts the service of the Light at around 11:45 and, thus, the 1st Christos Anesti close to midnight.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 02:11:59 AM »
Another big issue is the number of people who will receive the Eucharist, and the number of clergy who can hold a chalice and distribute the Eucharist.

My parish will have close to 1000 people stay to receive. Fortunately we have 2 priests, but even at that the time to commune people will stretch past the 30 minute mark, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Your parish may even have a longer time for this!

Wow, at my church, I've seen 1,000 people, which for most of them is probably the only time they visit church other than a funeral and/or memorial service, leave after Christos Anesti .   :(  The church is lucky to be 2/3 fall after all the people leave.

Offline admiralnick

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 09:20:46 AM »
Since we always have the pleasure of the Archbishop's presence at Holy Trinity, its generally about 4 hours. It would be a lot longer but there were 4 priests with chalices, so we ended up with only a 5-7 minute communion. I also took a little cut time on my reading  :o

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 09:42:48 AM »
Wow, at my church, I've seen 1,000 people, which for most of them is probably the only time they visit church other than a funeral and/or memorial service, leave after Christos Anesti .   :(  The church is lucky to be 2/3 fall after all the people leave.

Well, 2/3 is better than 1/3, or 1/6, or 0/3  ;)

This year we left before Divine Liturgy began (and continued fast). Then Sunday morning we attended DL at wife's home ACROD parish 100 miles away. Somehow two DLs in one day didn't seem right to me and so we left as we did. Fortunately this schedule allowed us to make Sunday Vespers back at the GOA parish on way back. One can never tell just looking at what others seem to do.
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Offline kelfar

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2008, 12:34:31 AM »
If you chant the full service at a good tempo then it will take more then 3 hours.

For example, in our Church/Mission, we have 20 people and one priest was serving.

Here what we did:
(we chanted all the service in Byzantine style)
1. Chanted the full Canon from Friday night
2. Holy Light with procession
3. Gospel
3. the Full Paschal Canon with the Little Litanies in between
4. the Divine Liturgy
5. Saint John Chrysostom paschal homily

------------------------
Three Hours

Offline SolEX01

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2008, 01:00:27 AM »
Well, 2/3 is better than 1/3, or 1/6, or 0/3  ;)

This year we left before Divine Liturgy began (and continued fast). Then Sunday morning we attended DL at wife's home ACROD parish 100 miles away. Somehow two DLs in one day didn't seem right to me and so we left as we did. Fortunately this schedule allowed us to make Sunday Vespers back at the GOA parish on way back. One can never tell just looking at what others seem to do.

I never heard of an Easter Sunday Divine Liturgy at a regular morning time - perhaps ACROD churches performed Sunday Morning Easter Liturgies when people either left the coal mines for the day or before people went to work in the coal mines - we're talking about a long time ago.

I do agree that attending both Liturgies on Easter Sunday is a bit odd....

Offline Elisha

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2008, 01:21:55 AM »
If you chant the full service at a good tempo then it will take more then 3 hours.

For example, in our Church/Mission, we have 20 people and one priest was serving.

Here what we did:
(we chanted all the service in Byzantine style)
1. Chanted the full Canon from Friday night
2. Holy Light with procession
3. Gospel
3. the Full Paschal Canon with the Little Litanies in between
4. the Divine Liturgy
5. Saint John Chrysostom paschal homily

------------------------
Three Hours

Ahem....YOU chanted the service Byzantine style. ;)

Offline prodromas

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2008, 10:25:37 PM »
Ahem....YOU chanted the service Byzantine style. ;)

Ahem... YOU chanted the service in THE style. ;D JOKES
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2008, 11:56:50 PM »
If you chant the full service at a good tempo then it will take more then 3 hours.

For example, in our Church/Mission, we have 20 people and one priest was serving.

Here what we did:
(we chanted all the service in Byzantine style)
1. Chanted the full Canon from Friday night
2. Holy Light with procession
3. Gospel
3. the Full Paschal Canon with the Little Litanies in between
4. the Divine Liturgy
5. Saint John Chrysostom paschal homily

------------------------
Three Hours

That's what we did at school the year I stayed (with then-Bishop Gerasimos, now the Metropolitan of San Francisco); took us a bit longer than 3 hours... Of course (a) we didn't skip anything, (b) some things we chanted slowly, and (c) it was hierarchical Paschal Liturgy (with the Resurrectional proclamation done outside the Church in the courtyard).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Elisha

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2008, 12:34:19 AM »
Ahem... YOU chanted the service in THE style. ;D JOKES

Sorry, but this is a bit of an inside joke....I live <2 miles away from him and know him all too well.

(and Btw, he is one of the Byzantine masters in this country if you need to learn anything.)

Offline admiralnick

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2008, 09:39:25 AM »
I never heard of an Easter Sunday Divine Liturgy at a regular morning time - perhaps ACROD churches performed Sunday Morning Easter Liturgies when people either left the coal mines for the day or before people went to work in the coal mines - we're talking about a long time ago.

I do agree that attending both Liturgies on Easter Sunday is a bit odd....

According to Pope... Err uh I mean Metropolitan Nicholas: "This is done only in the Carpatho-Russian Diocese"

The above response given to me in exchange for my inquiry about why its done that way.

The ACROD churches generally hold Vespers with Basil's Liturgy on Holy Saturday Morning around 9am.

Then on Holy Saturday night, they start Paschal Matins around 8:00pm or so.
 
Then, without breaking the fast (even though Christ is Risen is being sung and repeated and we are joyful), the Paschal Divine Liturgy the next day is sometime between 9:00am and 10:00am, with many around 9:30am.

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Offline Anastasios

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2008, 11:33:32 AM »
Takes us about 5 hours.
If you chant the full service at a good tempo then it will take more then 3 hours.

For example, in our Church/Mission, we have 20 people and one priest was serving.

Here what we did:
(we chanted all the service in Byzantine style)
1. Chanted the full Canon from Friday night
2. Holy Light with procession
3. Gospel
3. the Full Paschal Canon with the Little Litanies in between
4. the Divine Liturgy
5. Saint John Chrysostom paschal homily

------------------------
Three Hours

Took us about 5 hours, but there were 2 bishops, 7 priests, 3 deacons, and communion took a long time too.
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Offline kelfar

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2008, 01:25:09 PM »
Deacon Anastasios,

Are you following the Greek Typicon?

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2008, 11:24:15 PM »
Deacon Anastasios,

Are you following the Greek Typicon?

Yes. Here is a very approximate breakdown:

1030pm: Holy Saturday canon, etc
1200am: Fire, Gospel, etc
1220am: Paschal Matins begins
145am: Divine Liturgy begins
330am: Service ends
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Offline Monk Vasyl

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2008, 01:09:38 PM »
According to Pope... Err uh I mean Metropolitan Nicholas: "This is done only in the Carpatho-Russian Diocese"
-Nick

There are some parishes in the UOC of USA that have the Paschal Services in the morning.  In our parish, we start at 11:30pm and begin the Procession at Midnight.  Father does Obidna at 8am for those who could not attend the midnight service.  This year we had around 100 at midnight and the same for Obidna.
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Offline Elpidophoros

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Re: length of paschal service
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2008, 01:23:27 PM »
The "very full" Paschal service (of cause not only ‘liturgy',even not only 'paschal',the first and second parts belong to Great Saturday)I ever attened lasted almost 7hours(if I remember well)...

1, 9.00 pm we gathered in the nave and begin the great reading of Acts.
2, 11.00 pm the mesoniktikon with the canon"Κύματι θαλάσσης( waves of the sea)"
3, 11.50 pm the"Δεῦτε λάβετε φῶς (Come and take light)"
4, 00.00 the "anastasis" (the Gospel,the 'XPICTOC ANECTH' with verses )

{after this point I did not kook my watch ,so no accurate time report (I even slept for a while in my stall from the end of matins till the beginning of Liturgy(I sat in the narthex during matins till the begnning someone invited my into the nave).}

5, The paschal matins. Since there is the only canon in the case,so the troparia of each ode be repeated again and again to fullfil "12"( each eirmos twice).Then the same eormos as katavasia(in a slow melody).Then XP ANESTH thrice and "Ἀναστὰς ὁ Ἰησοῦς" after each ode the deacon say small litany.
After the canon the Exapostilarion and praises.
After the " Εἴπωμεν ἀδελφοί, καὶ τοῖς μισοῦσιν ἡμᾶς"(let's say brothers,and to to those that hate us), clergies come out with gospel crosses and icons ,we make the line of "paschal aspasmos"(kiss the gospel,crosses,icons and each other).
Immediately after the aspasmos ,we hear the "Εἴ τις εὐσεβὴς καὶ φιλόθεος"(Sermon of saint John Chrysostom).
After this I fall asleep,so no any impress from the hours. Theoritically the special paschal hour('Ἀνάστασιν Χριστοῦ θεασάμενοι 'and so on) should be say thrice for each hour.So after the matins ,it should be said at least thrice(in the place of the first hour) or nine times(for first third and sixth hour).
And the liturgy has no any special thing to make it longer.The communion was not problem——almost all of us already received on Great Thursday or Great Saturday.

Finally I think we finished around 4.00 am.