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Author Topic: Why is the Theotokos called the "Queen of Heaven"?  (Read 5705 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: April 19, 2008, 01:21:56 AM »

Why is the Mother of God called the Queen of Heaven? These things always spring up to protect theological teachings and doctrines. What doctrines are protected by calling the Blessed Mother the Queen of Heaven? What motivated this title being used? God Bless You All!
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2008, 01:37:41 AM »

I always assumed she was queen in the sense of "Queen Mother," because her Son is King.  In other words, this title, like the title Mother of God, is really a statement about Christ.
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2008, 08:09:59 AM »

If the heavens cannot circumscribe the Lord yet He was truly circumscribed in the Theotokos womb then she is greater than the heavens, thus Queen. I don't know this is just my take on it.
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2008, 05:11:20 PM »

Maybe She's called "Queen of Heaven" because us wayward children need a mother.... Wink
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2008, 05:17:30 PM »

I always assumed she was queen in the sense of "Queen Mother," because her Son is King.  In other words, this title, like the title Mother of God, is really a statement about Christ.

That's always been my understanding of it, as well.  All of the things we call Our Lady are statements about who her Son is.
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 10:49:40 PM »

Psalm 45 KJV

1  My heart is inditing a good matter:
         I speak of the things which I have made touching the King:
my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.
 
 
2  Thou art fairer than the children of men:
         grace is poured into thy lips:
therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
 
 
3  Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most Mighty,
         with thy glory and thy majesty.
 
 
4  And in thy majesty ride prosperously,
         because of truth and meekness and righteousness;
and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
 
 
5  Thine arrows are sharp
         in the heart of the King's enemies;
whereby the people fall under thee.
 
 
6  Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
         the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
 
 
7  Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
         therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee
with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Heb. 1.8, 9 
 
 
8  All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia,
         out of the ivory palaces,
whereby they have made thee glad.
 
 
9  Kings' daughters were among thy honorable women:
         upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
 
 
10  Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear;
         forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;
 
 
11  so shall the King greatly desire thy beauty:
         for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.
 
 
12  And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift;
         even the rich among the people shall entreat thy favor.
 
 
13  The King's daughter is all glorious within:
         her clothing is of wrought gold.
 
 
14  She shall be brought unto the King in raiment of needlework:
         the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
 
 
15  With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought:
         they shall enter into the King's palace.
 
 
16  Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children,
         whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.
 
 
17  I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations:
         therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever
 
 
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 12:49:34 AM »

Just my uninformed interpretation, but I wanted to throw it out anyway.  As the Theotokos is the most honored of all the saints, bearing the title "Most Holy" as opposed to the usual "Holy Apostle so and so", I've come to think of it as another way of saying "Chief of the Saints."  I hope that makes sense.
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 01:01:03 PM »

Do Eastern Orthodox Christians also refer to her as Queen of Saints?
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 01:55:39 PM »

^ No.
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 01:57:46 PM »

Do Eastern Orthodox Christians also refer to her as Queen of Saints?

I haven't encountered that phrase (or if I have, I don't remember it).  However, in iconographic depictions of All Saints, she is given a special place; and her title "Queen of Heaven" I suppose leads to the belief that she is Queen of All the Saints.
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 03:06:27 PM »

"I haven't encountered that phrase (or if I have, I don't remember it).  However, in iconographic depictions of All Saints, she is given a special place; and her title "Queen of Heaven" I suppose leads to the belief that she is Queen of All the Saints."

She is the Queen of ALL...I guess that includes the Saints?


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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 11:35:31 PM »

Do Eastern Orthodox Christians also refer to her as Queen of Saints?

I haven't encountered that phrase (or if I have, I don't remember it).  However, in iconographic depictions of All Saints, she is given a special place; and her title "Queen of Heaven" I suppose leads to the belief that she is Queen of All the Saints.

She is the Saint of all Saints.

She is the Mother of God,  Saint of all Saints, queen may not properly describe how exhaulted she really is (IMHO).
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 06:36:35 AM »

Just came across this.

Jeremiah 7:16-20

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Given the scriptural context for such words as "Queen of Heaven" I think i'll refrain from using them, just to be on the safe side.

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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 08:54:08 AM »

Just came across this.

Jeremiah 7:16-20

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Given the scriptural context for such words as "Queen of Heaven" I think i'll refrain from using them, just to be on the safe side.

Ortho_cat, you need to get yourself a Septuagint version of the OT. The Septuagint (the only BC version apart from the Dead Sea Scrolls) has "to make cakes to the hosts of heaven".
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 09:48:55 AM »

Just came across this.

Jeremiah 7:16-20

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Given the scriptural context for such words as "Queen of Heaven" I think i'll refrain from using them, just to be on the safe side.

Ortho_cat, you need to get yourself a Septuagint version of the OT. The Septuagint (the only BC version apart from the Dead Sea Scrolls) has "to make cakes to the hosts of heaven".

Thank you for clarifying this OzGeorge. I  had read the same passage years ago in a Protestant Bible, and have just been to lazy to look it up since acquiring my Orthodox Study Bible. Smiley

In regards to the phrase "Queen of Heaven," I just trusted that the Church Fathers knew what they were doing, and trusted their authority over my measely interpretation of scripture.
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 10:06:49 PM »

Just came across this.

Jeremiah 7:16-20

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Given the scriptural context for such words as "Queen of Heaven" I think i'll refrain from using them, just to be on the safe side.

Ortho_cat, you need to get yourself a Septuagint version of the OT. The Septuagint (the only BC version apart from the Dead Sea Scrolls) has "to make cakes to the hosts of heaven".

Hm interesting. Ill check that out, thanks.

[later] As luck would have it, there is a Brenton translation online! I'm good to go now.

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/index.htm
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2009, 01:26:34 AM »


The burning of incense to the Queen of Heaven and the making of cakes as a sacrifice to her is spoken of in  Jeremiah 51 in the Septuagint.
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 04:04:03 AM »

Thanks for that info, ozgeorge.

Ortho_cat,

Even if there were a reference to an idolatrous situation with a queen of heaven in the OT, wouldn't refusing to call Mary "The Queen of Heaven" (as one of the titles bestowed upon her by the Christian Church), be like refusing to call Jesus "the Lord of Life" because that's what the pagan Egyptians called Osiris?
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 04:25:02 AM »

I don't think so. Since the scriptures explicitly mentions the term "Queen of Heaven" in a negative sense, and those who referred to someone as such were subject to divine punishment, I personally think it would be best not to refer to anyone as that.
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2009, 07:09:58 AM »

I don't think so. Since the scriptures explicitly mentions the term "Queen of Heaven" in a negative sense, and those who referred to someone as such were subject to divine punishment, I personally think it would be best not to refer to anyone as that. 

The title is a title of Grace, which (like Theotokos) points to God more than to Mary (since the Father is the King of All, and Christ is also the King).  And since no one burns incense to the Queen of Heaven (at the offering of incense, the prayer is either to Christ - "incense we offer unto you, Christ our God, as an offering of spiritual fragrance..." - or simply God - "Blessed is our God..."), no one would fall under that OT condemnation anyway.
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2009, 08:43:53 PM »

I don't think so. Since the scriptures explicitly mentions the term "Queen of Heaven" in a negative sense, and those who referred to someone as such were subject to divine punishment, I personally think it would be best not to refer to anyone as that. 

The title is a title of Grace, which (like Theotokos) points to God more than to Mary (since the Father is the King of All, and Christ is also the King).  And since no one burns incense to the Queen of Heaven (at the offering of incense, the prayer is either to Christ - "incense we offer unto you, Christ our God, as an offering of spiritual fragrance..." - or simply God - "Blessed is our God..."), no one would fall under that OT condemnation anyway.

Is censing the icons considered "offering incense to" or "burning incense to" ?
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2009, 09:06:32 PM »

I don't think so. Since the scriptures explicitly mentions the term "Queen of Heaven" in a negative sense, and those who referred to someone as such were subject to divine punishment, I personally think it would be best not to refer to anyone as that.

You are, of course, entitled to a personal opinion, but don't you think that the early Christian Church was aware of the negative connotations of such an expression when it was decided to confer it upon the Theotokos? However, they saw something else; something that pointed to Christ rather than an idolatrous situation; something that in fact was triumphant over pagan activity. Just as the early Church saw something other than worship of Saturn in certain expressions of Saturnalia; making it possible to accept the birthday of the Sun, as the date that we commemorate the birthday of the Sun of Righteousness, Jesus Christ. Please understand that I don't mean to be rude, but if the Church has Christianised such titles and expressions, making them the applicable to the worship of Christ, is your concern relevant; or is it merely the resulting hangup of reading the bible in isolation of the Traditions of the Church, and the "guilt by association" thinking that one would expect from one coming from a Protestant background?
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2009, 09:11:17 PM »


Is censing the icons considered "offering incense to" or "burning incense to" ?

Read Cleveland's posts in this thread, especially replies 27 and 43:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21753.msg331593.html#msg331593

The following is from reply 27:

"- Incense is only offered to Christ our God; that incense is then spread around the Church in directions of icons... for the Christian, incense was only offered to The Lord God, and then that incense was spread about the Church like prayer rising to heaven."



The following is from reply 43:

"I suppose then a distinction should be made between "being censed" and "having incense offered."  For all things in the Church are censed - people, building stones, icons, carpet (if present), light fixtures, the altar table, the gifts and the vessels that hold them, etc. - but in each case, when the prayer of offering is made, the prayer is directed solely to God."


Thank you, Cleveland.  They really did learn you goodly in seminary.   Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2009, 09:57:23 PM »

Riddikulus, I have to admit, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Salpy, thank you for providing me with that excellent explanation from Cleveland.

What would I do without you all? Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 10:37:34 PM »

Late to this thread, but I wanted to throw this in. When I was Roman Catholic I had always heard the explanation that in ancient civilizations kings had many brides, so the queen was usually the king's mother and not any of his wives. For example, Solomon's mother Bathsheba was the queen and not any of his 700 wives. Because Mary is the mother of Jesus, the King of Heaven, she becomes the Queen of Heaven.
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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2009, 11:25:12 PM »

Late to this thread, but I wanted to throw this in. When I was Roman Catholic I had always heard the explanation that in ancient civilizations kings had many brides, so the queen was usually the king's mother and not any of his wives. For example, Solomon's mother Bathsheba was the queen and not any of his 700 wives. Because Mary is the mother of Jesus, the King of Heaven, she becomes the Queen of Heaven.
THat's the explanation I've heard too. It's a beautiful picture of the Theotokos' intercessions if you read 1 Kings 2 with that in mind.

19 Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand. 20 Then she said, “I desire one small petition of you; do not refuse me.”
And the king said to her, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2009, 12:10:26 AM »

Riddikulus, I have to admit, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Salpy, thank you for providing me with that excellent explanation from Cleveland.

What would I do without you all? Smiley

What would we do without each other?  Wink
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2009, 12:13:37 AM »

Late to this thread, but I wanted to throw this in. When I was Roman Catholic I had always heard the explanation that in ancient civilizations kings had many brides, so the queen was usually the king's mother and not any of his wives. For example, Solomon's mother Bathsheba was the queen and not any of his 700 wives. Because Mary is the mother of Jesus, the King of Heaven, she becomes the Queen of Heaven.
THat's the explanation I've heard too. It's a beautiful picture of the Theotokos' intercessions if you read 1 Kings 2 with that in mind.

19 Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand. 20 Then she said, “I desire one small petition of you; do not refuse me.”
And the king said to her, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”

Yes, beautiful! Thanks to both you and wynd for this.
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 03:50:15 PM »

Late to this thread, but I wanted to throw this in. When I was Roman Catholic I had always heard the explanation that in ancient civilizations kings had many brides, so the queen was usually the king's mother and not any of his wives. For example, Solomon's mother Bathsheba was the queen and not any of his 700 wives. Because Mary is the mother of Jesus, the King of Heaven, she becomes the Queen of Heaven.
THat's the explanation I've heard too. It's a beautiful picture of the Theotokos' intercessions if you read 1 Kings 2 with that in mind.

19 Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand. 20 Then she said, “I desire one small petition of you; do not refuse me.”
And the king said to her, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”

Great example!
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2009, 03:43:54 PM »

If your son is the Son of the King (i.e: He's the prince Tongue), then you are the Queen.
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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2009, 03:39:37 PM »

I heard some fairly good explanations, esp froM Wynd. But how does one differentiate between the Queen of Heaven that irritates God and Mary?
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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2009, 06:07:30 PM »

Hmm...don't make cakes for her or offer incense?  Tongue
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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2009, 06:47:11 PM »

I heard some fairly good explanations, esp froM Wynd. But how does one differentiate between the Queen of Heaven that irritates God and Mary?

I'm pretty sure that you would have to revive an ancient religious practice to incur the Old Testament condemnation. Wink The title Queen of Heaven as referenced by the prophet Jeremiah probably refers to Asherah, a goddess worshipped in ancient Israel and Judah (Jer, 7:18 and 44:17). I would think that's an historical event that we can't replicate; so the question is probably moot.


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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 07:38:39 PM »

Thank you Ridikilus,
As I mentioned to AB Lazar Puhalo I thought maybe God was warning us not to venerate Mary to the point of igoring him. I did not know that Asurah or Ishtar for that matter were called the Queen of Heaven. If so than your explanation may work well.
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« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 11:33:24 AM »

This from Archbishop Lazar Puhalo:
Jeremiah wrote over a century before Mary was born. He was referring to the goddess Easter (also called Astarte, Astroth, etc in various languages). The goddess Easter was elevated to the same level as YHVH, and because Israel no longer wanted her "spousal relationship" with God, they began to believe that Easter was the spouse of God in place of Israel. The verse does not refer to Mary. The Roman Catholic Church does refer to Mary as "queen of heaven," because she is the mother of Christ the King, but they do not place here as a goddess. You will note that in the Orthodox Church we do not use the term Easter for the feast of Christ's Resurrection, but rather the traditional term "Pascha."

He went on to say that the OC typically does not refer to Mary as Queen of Heaven
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« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2009, 04:11:57 PM »

The Akathystos to the Mother of God in honor of her Dormition and Translation (in short Akathyst for the Dormition) says the following:

"Rejoice, Queen of Heaven"
a little further on:
"Rejoice Queen of the cherubim and seraphim!"
a little later:
"Rejoice Queen of Christians and after God the hope of the heavenly Kingdom"   (if she is Queen of Christians, then she is certainly Queen of Saints, Christians who have "finished the race"). 

She is also called "Queen of noetic light" and "queen of queens" and "Queen of heaven and earth"

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« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2009, 06:50:04 PM »

Ok, how about attributing to her the "Bride of God"? That term one has always confused me. Isn't the bride supposed to be the Church?
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« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2009, 06:57:24 PM »

Ok, how about attributing to her the "Bride of God"? That term one has always confused me. Isn't the bride supposed to be the Church?
Yeah that's a new one. Besides its a little hard to be a mother and bride...

But I really don't want to challenege evrything the martyrs of the church have done. Their faith is one that is greater than mine, Hebrews 12:1
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« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2009, 07:19:08 PM »

Ok, how about attributing to her the "Bride of God"? That term one has always confused me. Isn't the bride supposed to be the Church?

As the first human being to accept Christ, the first human being to be united to Him (when He took His human nature from her), the Theotokos is an exemplar of the Church and is thus a fitting recipient of the Church's titles. Or to put it another way, yes, the Church is the Bride of Christ; which means we are all the Bride of Christ. And when the work of salvation began in her womb, the Theotokos was the first to have that name.
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« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2009, 07:28:04 PM »

I guess that makes sense. However, being mother and bride at the same time is still rather confusing to me...  Huh
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« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2009, 11:36:02 AM »

I guess that makes sense. However, being mother and bride at the same time is still rather confusing to me...  Huh

No more "confusing" than the title Theotokos. And there is much hymnody, particularly in  where the Mother of God refers to Christ as "my son and my God".
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« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2009, 11:48:04 AM »

Look at it this way.  If Mary is the mother of Jesus and has God as his father, is she not the Bride of God?

Since we're dealing with a mystery, something that is above what we see as natural, it will be hard to reconcile these illogical mysteries within our all-too-logical mind.  I find it helps to just take them one at a time and not try to figure out the "how" but rather focus on the "why".  Remember, everything that call Mary inevitably points to her Son and our God, Jesus Christ.
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« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2009, 09:30:49 PM »

St. John of Damascus Sermon 2 on the Translation (Assumption) of Mary:
"The place of the Bride whom the Father had espoused was in the heavenly courts"
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2011, 10:01:11 AM »

Song of Solomon 3:11   depicts in Old testament Image the crowning of Solomon by his Mother.   This image is fulfilled in the Incarnation; for our Lord Receives His Humanity (His Crown) from His Mother. 

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« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2011, 05:51:04 PM »

I always assumed she was queen in the sense of "Queen Mother," because her Son is King.  In other words, this title, like the title Mother of God, is really a statement about Christ.

This is correct.  By calling her Queen (i.e. Queen mother) we acknowledge she is mother of the King.  To deny her position is to deny His position.  We would have to lapse into Nestorianism to do so. 
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« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2011, 12:17:33 PM »

To be precise, Queen of Heaven means Queen of The Angelic Orders. The full name is 'Queen of Heaven and Earth', which means of all Creation (Angels, Humans and entire Earth and Cosmos).
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« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2011, 04:29:13 PM »

This from Archbishop Lazar Puhalo:
Jeremiah wrote over a century before Mary was born. He was referring to the goddess Easter (also called Astarte, Astroth, etc in various languages). The goddess Easter was elevated to the same level as YHVH, and because Israel no longer wanted her "spousal relationship" with God, they began to believe that Easter was the spouse of God in place of Israel. The verse does not refer to Mary. The Roman Catholic Church does refer to Mary as "queen of heaven," because she is the mother of Christ the King, but they do not place here as a goddess. You will note that in the Orthodox Church we do not use the term Easter for the feast of Christ's Resurrection, but rather the traditional term "Pascha."


His Eminence is usually an author who writes many beneficial things but in this case he is mumbling in his beard.   laugh

To see the facts about "Easter" read message 49
at
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,16085.msg449779.html#msg449779
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« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2011, 05:05:36 PM »

I guess that makes sense. However, being mother and bride at the same time is still rather confusing to me...  Huh

Like being a mother and a virgin?

How about being God and man? Being uncontainable, but contained?

Our faith is full of wonderful paradoxes since it is based on revelation, not rationalization.
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« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2011, 09:43:56 PM »

I guess that makes sense. However, being mother and bride at the same time is still rather confusing to me...  Huh

Like being a mother and a virgin?

How about being God and man? Being uncontainable, but contained?

Our faith is full of wonderful paradoxes since it is based on revelation, not rationalization.

Or being raised from the dead, be it Jairus' daughter, Lazarus (dead for four days and stinking), and, of course, the cornerstone of the Son of God Himself?
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« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2012, 01:31:13 AM »

My question is not directly realted to Theotokos being called 'Queen of Heaven' but related to Psalm 45 (44 in LXX) verses 9-17
Quote
9  Daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.
10 Hear, O daughter, consider, and incline your ear; forget your people and your father's house;
11 and the king will desire your beauty. Since he is your lord, bow to him;
12 the people of Tyre will sue your favor with gifts, the richest of the people
13 with all kinds of wealth. The princess is decked in her chamber with gold-woven robes;
14 in many-colored robes she is led to the king, with her virgin companions, her escort, in her train.
15 With joy and gladness they are led along as they enter the palace of the king.
16 Instead of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth.
17 I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you for ever and ever.

In the above verses there are reference to atleast three people
1) King
2) Queen
3) Princess (daughter of kings) who is the bride, to be led to the king (vs 14)

Here the images are:

King = Christ
Queen = Mother of the King; ie the Theotokos
Princess (bride) = Church

Right ?

If so are verses 10 thru 17 addressed to the Queen (the Mother of the King) or to the Princess (bride of the King) ?

"Instead of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them prices in all the earth. I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you for ever and ever." Is this being said about the Queen (Theotokos) or about the Princess-bride (the Church) ?

Is it the Church (princess bride) or the Theotokos (Queen) that is asked to forget your people and your father's house, so that the king will desire her beauty ? It makes sense to ask the church, which is predominantly gentile to forget her gentile ancestory and love the king (Christ).
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« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2012, 01:36:48 AM »

Based on the liturgical use of the psalm excerpts posted, it would refer to the Mother of God.

Hear, O daughter, consider, and incline your ear and I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations are used as the Matins prokeimenon and verse for feasts of the Mother of God; most of the other verses illustrate liturgical and iconographic imagery from the feast of the Entry into the Temple.

However, as with so much of Orthodoxy, more than one interpretation might apply.
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« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2012, 01:42:51 AM »

Based on the liturgical use of the psalm excerpts posted, it would refer to the Mother of God.

Hear, O daughter, consider, and incline your ear and I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generationsare used as the Matins prokeimenon and verse for feasts of the Mother of God; most of the other verses illustrate liturgical and iconographic imagery from the feast of the Entry into the Temple.

However, as with so much of Orthodoxy, more than one interpretation might apply.
So if that is the case, then there is only King and Queen referred to in the above passage. The princess referred to in vs 13 should be the same as the Queen referred to as in vs 9.  Right ?   If Ps45:10-17 is an imagery of the presentation of the Theotokos to the temple, then the 'King' that is referred to is not to be interpretted as Christ the Meshianic King; because Christ is the son of the Queen and not her groom. So then, the king is an image of God the Father ? right ?
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« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2012, 12:24:53 PM »

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« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2012, 07:22:34 PM »

The Queen mother=Queen.  It is nice an proper that in English we have terms like "Queen mother."  In Scripture, mother of the King is "Queen."   

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« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2012, 11:20:27 AM »

I've been ruminating on the title "Queen of Heaven."  As the Mother of the King, it of course appropriate to bestow on her the title Queen.  But this almost sounds honorary, whereas I suspect that the Church wants to convey something stronger.  Let me offer this tentative proposal:  We acclaim her as Queen because of her unique role as intercessor.  Dr George S. Gabriel devotes a chapter of his book Mary: The Untrodden Portal of God to our Lady's office as Mediatress.  He distinguishes her role from the intercessory role of all the other saints:

Quote
The Theotokos' intercession and mediation, therefore, are not only incomparably greater but incomparably different in nature from those of the angels and saints.  The intercessions of all other saints are only supplicatory in nature.  Without Mary the mother of the Incarnate Logos, however, there can be no saints.  She is one of the two persons in the mystery of the Incarnation. ... Her mediation and Christ's mediation operate as one in an unceasing, indivisible synergy in Heaven and in the world.  Therefore she remits sins, intercedes, saves, heals, enlightens, sanctifies, guides, guards, protects; she routs demons and barbarian hordes, delivers us from dangers, turn tides, calms storms.  A profound vesper hymn clearly distinguishes the unique nature of the intercessions of the Theotokos: "Unveil to us the boundless sea of your mercy and goodness and thereby wash away our sins, O All-Blameless One; for as the Mother of God you have authority over creation, and by your power you bring all things to pass according to your will.  For the grace of the Holy Spirit abides in you, and unceasingly co-works with you in all things, O All-Blessed One" [Small Vespers, Saturday of the Fourth Tone, Apostichon of the Theotokos]. 

Among the saints and angelic hosts, the Theotokos alone, therefore, "has power to do all that she wills" [Theotokion of Tuesday of the Plagal First Tone].  To her is given "authority over creation," not merely honorary or titular authority but authority with power.  For the vesper hymn tells us she "brings all things to pass" by grace, and not by grace that is occasional or tentative, but by full and "unceasing" grace that abides in her.  By unceasing grace, her creaturely energy in Paradise becomes transfigured, and uncreated, as it were.  For, like the mystery of the Incarnation, it is the mystery of two, one created and one Uncreated, co-working in a synergy that is as a single operation.  For no creature is of its own nature "boundless."  Only the uncreated, divine energy is boundless, unfailing, undiminished, inexhaustible, eternal constant.  The efficacy of this synergy, therefore, spring from the one power and one rule (or "kingdom") of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (pp. 160-162)

For one who enjoys a union with her son that is closer than the union enjoyed with him by any other creature and who shares in his mediatorial work in such a unique way, it does indeed seem appropriate to entitle her "Queen of Heaven."  Gabriel writes:

Quote
She was divinized by grace, and in the image of Christ's human energy, her human energy also become one (but unconfused) with His divine will.  For, from childhood "she shunned human pursuits and surrendered to God the mind's reigning faculty and placed it in obedience to Him in all things" [Gregory Palamas].  In a relative sense, angels and saints also enjoy oneness with God, but regarding the Theotokos, it is incomparably and infinitely greater: "The difference between His friends and His mother, however, is infinite" [John of Damascus].  "She alone among all others was worthy and received all gifts of the Spirit collectively" [John of Damascus].  She is the "Queen Mother," the "Queen at the right hand of God" in Heaven, interceding "with motherly boldness." (p. 159)
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