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Author Topic: The Roman Catholic View of Mortal sin  (Read 2296 times) Average Rating: 0
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lubeltri
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« on: April 18, 2008, 10:24:09 AM »

"The Fathers of the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church do not generally take a legalistic or juridical approach in their views of sin. For them, sin does not exist as an abstract and must be approached on an individual basis. Likewise, the prescription for sin must be filtered through human understanding in order to be effective. There is nothing within the Church that is automatic (latae sententiae). Though some acts are clearly always sinful (e.g., adultery), what is a sin for one man may not be for another; neither does the Orthodox Church see all sin as being the same.

The traditional practice of the Orthodox is to have a confessor, sometimes referred to as a spiritual father, to whom one confesses and who treats the sin on an individual basis. Thus, to make a blanket statement about any sin and how to deal with it would be inappropriate for the Orthodox Church. At best a generalized guideline may be stated with the knowledge that an experienced confessor will know when to effectively "bend the rules"."

I'll add something just for clarification, as these EO catechetical guides so often seem to reference Catholic teaching to contrast with theirs. As is often the case, these characterizations are incorrect.

We do not take a "legalistic" approach to mortal sin. Any sin of gravity, to be mortal, must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. In other words, what is a mortal sin for one person may not be for another person. Even murder is not necessarily always mortal sin. And who do you take this to for guidance? Your confessor during the sacrament of reconciliation, who will treat the sin on an individual basis.

As for latae sententiae, it is completely irrelevant here as it refers not to mortal sin but to canonical penalties: excommunication, interdict, or suspension. And even then there are mitigating factors to consider.
 You have been repeatedly warned that if you wish to post the Roman Catholic view of things, to do so in the Catholic-Orthodox discussion forum, and not in Faith Issues.
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 10:30:58 AM »

Why is this in "Board News"?
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 10:31:40 AM »

Why is this in "Board News"?
Because I'm an idiot.
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lubeltri
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 10:32:15 AM »

George,

The "Roman Catholic view of things" had already been posted, by way of contrast, in the previous post. I was clarifying it. Does not truth and accurate representation matter, even in the Faith Issues forum?
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 10:33:52 AM »

Because I'm an idiot.

Well... that's news to me  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 10:35:26 AM »

Does not truth and accurate representation matter, even in the Faith Issues forum?
It does, that's why we only allow the Orthodox Christian view there.
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 10:43:56 AM »

It does, that's why we only allow the Orthodox Christian view there.

That's just what the CAF moderators said.

I think it is a good thing for EO readers of the Faith Issues forum to have an accurate understanding of other faiths, particularly Catholicism, characterizations of which, after all, you practically use as a catechetical tool.
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 10:45:49 AM »

George,

The "Roman Catholic view of things" had already been posted, by way of contrast, in the previous post. I was clarifying it. Does not truth and accurate representation matter, even in the Faith Issues forum?
For some its easier to argue against staw men that what the Church really teaches.
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 10:48:48 AM »

Quote
...you practically use as a catechetical tool.
Examples?
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 10:50:02 AM »

For some its easier to argue against staw men that what the Church really teaches.

If, on a Catholic forum, we were making inaccurate references to EO teaching, I would most welcome any clarification from a knowledgeable EO poster. It is always good to know the truth.
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 10:50:58 AM »

I agree. It would be silly for us to argue against the EO position by tearing down what it is not. Furthermore, and more importantly, I would want to be speaking the truth always, even when talking about a different Church.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 10:57:49 AM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 10:55:09 AM »

Examples?

An example of this is what began this thread:

Quote
"The Fathers of the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church do not generally take a legalistic or juridical approach in their views of sin. For them, sin does not exist as an abstract and must be approached on an individual basis. Likewise, the prescription for sin must be filtered through human understanding in order to be effective. There is nothing within the Church that is automatic (latae sententiae). Though some acts are clearly always sinful (e.g., adultery), what is a sin for one man may not be for another; neither does the Orthodox Church see all sin as being the same.

The traditional practice of the Orthodox is to have a confessor, sometimes referred to as a spiritual father, to whom one confesses and who treats the sin on an individual basis. Thus, to make a blanket statement about any sin and how to deal with it would be inappropriate for the Orthodox Church. At best a generalized guideline may be stated with the knowledge that an experienced confessor will know when to effectively "bend the rules"."

So much of EO catechetics involves bouncing EO teaching off (often inaccurate characterizations of) Catholic teaching. It seems very difficult for many EO to talk about EO teaching without referencing (their often limited understanding of) Catholic teaching in contrast.
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2008, 02:57:01 PM »

This is a big hobby-horse of your's, I can see.  It's perfectly natural for the Orthodox to define themselves in opposition to the RCC, since non-Orthodox seem to find them to be so similar, and since many RC ecumenical types often poo-poo the differences between the two Churches. 

The RCC is a much bigger "noise" in the world today than the Orthodox Church.  I don't think you realise how sensitive the Orthodox are about this, and how nervous the RCC makes them feel.  Or to put it another way; you are aware of how the Orthodox feel, but seeing the RCC as being essentially a benevolent organisation, or in fact as the very vehicle of salvation, you are aghast at why so many Orthodox see the need to distinguish themselves from the RCC.   Some of the Orthodox concern is due to unreasonable paranoia, but some is clearly not.  A couple of years ago, I mentioned to you that RC schools in the Middle East encourage Orthodox to join them and receive a free education.  All they have to do in return is join the Melkite Church.  How is this to be understood by the Orthodox? 

I personally really love the present Pope.  I really respect how he "tells is like it is", but does so in a spirit of love.  I trust in his sincerity.  However, I am really not sure that the Roman curia wants anything other than to absorb Orthodoxy, not come to a consensus with Her about ecclesial matters.  It's unfortunately only far too human to want to preserve what prestige, power, and influence one already has, and not give it up.  I'm not saying that this is true only in the RCC; Orthodoxy has its problems with this kind of attitude today too.  Suffice it to say, however, that while I may love and admire individual RC people or prelates, that I do not trust the motives of the RCC as a whole. 

Also, you know full well that there is a tendency in the West to be more juridical.  I don't know why you feel the need to completely deny this.  You probably have a legitimate point to make in your critique, but really, to deny that there is a more juridical tendancy in Western thought is really quite disingenuous.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 03:07:09 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 07:15:33 PM »

A couple of years ago, I mentioned to you that RC schools in the Middle East encourage Orthodox to join them and receive a free education.  All they have to do in return is join the Melkite Church.  How is this to be understood by the Orthodox? 

That I can't really say, but I can tell you how I feel about: complete shock. If true, this is a huge scandal. It's not at all like my experience with Melkites.

-Peter.
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2008, 12:16:10 AM »

George,

The "Roman Catholic view of things" had already been posted, by way of contrast, in the previous post. I was clarifying it. Does not truth and accurate representation matter, even in the Faith Issues forum?

That's just what the CAF moderators said.

I think it is a good thing for EO readers of the Faith Issues forum to have an accurate understanding of other faiths, particularly Catholicism, characterizations of which, after all, you practically use as a catechetical tool.

That's just what the CAF moderators said.

I think it is a good thing for EO readers of the Faith Issues forum to have an accurate understanding of other faiths, particularly Catholicism, characterizations of which, after all, you practically use as a catechetical tool.

Normally I agree with most everything you've said in the above quotes.  I, too, believe that if we're going to talk about an RC doctrine within the context of a discussion on Orthodox faith (i.e., in the Faith Issues section), then we owe it to ourselves to know that we understand correctly the RC doctrine in question.  As such, I appreciate and welcome correctives from our RC posters, as long as that's ALL the posts are.  However, considering your history of frequently going beyond mere corrective to advocate RC points of view on the Faith board--how many times have I had to warn you informally of this?--I don't think YOU should be the one offering any corrective on a Faith Issues thread.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2008, 12:17:02 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2008, 04:04:55 AM »

So much of EO catechetics involves bouncing EO teaching off (often inaccurate characterizations of) Catholic teaching. It seems very difficult for many EO to talk about EO teaching without referencing (their often limited understanding of) Catholic teaching in contrast.

That I can't really say, but I can tell you how I feel about: complete shock. If true, this is a huge scandal. It's not at all like my experience with Melkites.

-Peter.

In an effort to keep this thread on topic, I am requesting interested parties to check out the Is the Roman Church Sincere about Ecumenism? thread for some further replies to these posts. 

AFAIK, it's not the Melkites themselves who are directly involved.  I am not sure if some of them have vocally opposed this or remained mute on the issue.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2008, 04:14:33 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

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