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Author Topic: Has this miracle realy happened in Egypt?  (Read 2573 times) Average Rating: 0
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Hiywot
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« on: April 17, 2008, 11:33:56 AM »

A friend forwarded the following story to my e-mail. But I doubted the content and wanted to make sure whether this miracle has really happened in Egypt or is a simple fiction. Would anyone from the coptic church please help? Thank you and here goes the story!

Enjoy reading the miracle below.
Stay blessed,
A Muslim man in Egypt killed his wife because she was reading the Bible and then buried her with their infant baby and an 8-year old daughter.
The girls were buried alive! He then reported to the police that an uncle killed the kids. 15 days later, another family member died. When they went to bury him,they found the 2 little girls under the sand - ALIVE!
The country is outraged over the incident, and the man will be executed.
The older girl was asked how she had survived and she says:- "A man wearing shiny white clothes, with bleeding wounds in his hands, came every day to feed us. He woke up my mom so she could nurse my sister," she said. She was interviewed on Egyptian national TV, by availed Muslim woman news anchor. She said on public TV, "This was none other than Jesus, because nobody else does things like this!"
Muslims believe Isa (Jesus) would do this, but the wounds mean He really was crucified, and it's clear also that He is alive! But, it's also clear that the child could not make up a story like this, and there is no way these children could have survived without a true miracle. Muslim leaders are going to have a hard time to figure out what to do with this, and the
popularity of the Passion movie doesn't help! With Egypt at the center of the media and education in the Middle East , you can be sure this story will spread.
Christ is still turning the world upside down! Please let this story be shared. The Lord says, "I will bless the person who puts his trust in me.
"Jeremiah 17
Please forward to all on your list and God will reward you abundantly
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EofK
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 11:54:24 AM »

This appears to be an urban legend from around 2004.  Snopes lists it as debunked.  BTW, welcome to the forum!

Snopes
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 12:54:30 AM »

I heard that story from someone in church a couple of years ago.  It's one of those situations where you would think that if it had really happened, you would have heard much more about it.  I don't know.

And I second EofK's welcome!  We look forward to your posts here! 
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 01:12:10 AM »

A Somalian friend emailed me that a miraculous sign happened in Ethiopia earlier this week.
Apparently, a rare sun halo (rare for Ethtiopia since it requires the presence of ice crystals in the atmosphere) appeared during the visit of Pope Shenouda this week:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7346133.stm
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 01:16:42 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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Hiywot
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2008, 04:59:56 AM »

Salpy and Efox, thank you for your responses and for welcoming me. But please do not expect much from me. I am here just to learn.

Ozgeorge, should we realy consider a sun with a halo as a miraculous phenomenon? I remember viewing a similar thing twice in the last ten or something years. I tried to associate what I saw with the things that were in my mind at that time, but nothing happened. What message does such a happening transmit? If it is really a miracle, what does God want to tell us through it that He can't tell us by other means? Has a similar miraculous event been recorded in the holy scriptures?

I am asking all these just to learn and not to be against popular beliefs.

Sincerely,

Hiywot.
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2008, 06:07:27 AM »

Ozgeorge, should we realy consider a sun with a halo as a miraculous phenomenon? I remember viewing a similar thing twice in the last ten or something years. I tried to associate what I saw with the things that were in my mind at that time, but nothing happened. What message does such a happening transmit? If it is really a miracle, what does God want to tell us through it that He can't tell us by other means? Has a similar miraculous event been recorded in the holy scriptures?

"Miracle" does not mean "supernatural event", it means "wonder", "something which causes awe".
In themselves, an eclipse is not a miracle, and earthquake is not a miracle. But the Sun and Moon were darkened and the Earth shook when they saw their Creator dying on the Cross- that is "awesome"- (i.e. a miracle).
An early coldsnap is not a miracle, but when that coldsnap comes just in time to save Russia from Napoleon's armies, that's a miracle.

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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2008, 09:56:36 AM »

Well, in this case, a person who considers  "miracle" as an extraordinary event that is "inexplicable by the laws of nature" might find it difficult to consider "a sun with a halo" as a miracle.

How is the term "miracle" understood in the holy scriptures any way?

Sincerely,

Hiywot
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2008, 10:46:30 AM »

How is the term "miracle" understood in the holy scriptures any way?
The word used in the New Testament is "θαύμα" (pronounced "thavma") and means "wonder".
A "θαύμα" is something which causes wonder and astonishment ("θαμβος", pronounced "thambos").
It is quite "normal" for a fisherman to occassionally have a large catch of fish, but when the Apostle Peter fished all night and caught nothing Christ told them to try again and they caught so many fish that their nets tore (Luke 5:1-11), the Apostles Peter, James and John were so "astonished" ("thambos"- Luke 5:9) at this that "they forsook all, and followed Him" (Luke 5:11).
A fisherman catching fish is not "supernatural"- it is to be expected. But the context in which it took place made it a "wonder".
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2008, 10:26:20 AM »

Yes, from the bible you have given examples of "normal" events that turn out to be astonishing. And you call these "wonders".

What about events that can not be considered "normal" by any means? The water made wine in John 2; The 5000 fed in Matt. 14; The raising of Lazarus from the dead; The dividing of the red sea by Moses; etc... These events are more than wonders. These are "dunameis". Miracles that are inexplicable by the laws of nature.

Does "a sun with a halo" fulfill this definition? Or should we classify miracles into two, i.e, those which are manipulations of "normal" events and those which are totally supernatural.

Sincerely,

Hiywot
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2008, 09:35:50 PM »

Dear Hiywot,

I think you get the basic idea—a "sign from God" (to use the words employed by our respective Patriarchs, and to refrain from the word "miracle" so as not to be distracted by semantics), need not be beyond natural explanation. That God can, and that He has/does defy the laws of nature, does not mean that He necessarily must/will, to communicate a message to His creation.

Allow me to share a personal anecdote which is very dear to me, in the hope it may encourage others. I am going through a very difficult time in my life at the moment, having lost a loved one (not to death, though) a few months ago. About a month ago during a break between classes I decided to sit and have lunch at a nearby park. I was in a terrible mood that day; I felt like I had very little to look forward to in life. Nevertheless, I was also quite starving so I was at least looking forward to enjoying a tasty lunch in a nice and peaceful setting.

When I got to the park, all the benches were occupied, and the moment a bench became vacant a second didn't pass before someone laid claim to it. However, I noticed one particular bench which everyone surprisingly seemed to walk past and I managed to get to it just in time. My spirit slightly lifted as I felt I could finally sit down in the warm sun and enjoy some delicious vegetarian thai stir-fry… until I noticed the stench of the fertiliser that was sitting right behind my bench.

I can’t tell you how ticked off I was. I couldn’t be bothered getting up in order to search for another spot, so I just put my lunch away—my appetite being lost—and took out my pocket Bible so as to keep my mind distracted from negative thoughts. I randomly opened the Bible to the section in the Gospel where the Lord Christ commands us not to worry about our life and to seek first the Kingdom of God. In establishing His point, He referred to completely natural phenomena as evidence of God’s caring providence—the birds of the heaven which always manage to find sustenance and the lilies of the field which neither toil nor spin and which yet manage to grow arrayed greater than Solomon in all his glory.

I then noticed some movement in front of me so I put down my Bible to see what was happening. Before me was a gardener; he looked at me cheerfully and said, "Hi mate, sorry about the fertiliser and the disturbance." "That's quite alright," I responded. I looked to my right, and lo and behold, they were none other than lilies that were being prepared to be planted before me. I then looked to my left, and noticed a young mother giving her child small crumbs of bread to throw to the seagulls. The Gospel reading was brought to life for me in a way that seized my conviction in its message in a more intimate and personal way than ever before. I cannot consider the events of that day any less than a "sign of God".
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 11:24:02 AM »

EkhristosAnesti, Thank you very much. Taking such a phenomenon as a "sign from God" seems pretty safe. A "sign from God" should not necessarily be a miracle.

Your experience of the birds of heaven and the lilies of the field is really very interesting. I, myself, some times open the bible randomly and look for verses of comfort. But a friend of mine who is against this practice tells me that this does not usually work and that it could some times end up in terrible and detrimental results.

He narrated a case study in which a christian person who was in a serious emotional problem once tired to find a solution to his problem from the bible by randomly opening it and reading whatever catches his eyes. It so happened that his eyes fall on Matt.27:5 which reads "Then Judas went away and hanged himself". Being surprised by what he read, he decided to take a second trial inorder to make sure whether this message was really meant for him. So, for a second time he opened his bible randomly which took him to Luke 10:37 that reads "and Jesus said - go and do the same". And he went and hanged himself.

Regards,

Hiywot
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 08:28:59 PM »

Quote
A "sign from God" should not necessarily be a miracle.

Well, I can’t say I agree. Again, this appears to be a matter of semantics. I can agree that a 'sign of God' is not necessarily a 'miracle' in the sense you seem to be presupposing the term i.e. an event that is by nature extraordinary/supernatural. Nevertheless, a 'sign from God' is necessarily a 'miracle' in the sense ozgeorge explained i.e. a thing that causes wonder/astonishment given the overall context in which the incidents in question—which in and of themselves are perfectly natural—occur (in this sense we may say that the supernatural element lies in God’s providential arrangement/organisation of the event(s)). This is because God's intended ultimate end of any given miracle is to increase our fear of Him, and such a fear naturally follows from the wonder/astonishment invoked by any given 'sign from God.'

Quote
I, myself, some times open the bible randomly and look for verses of comfort.

I didn’t actually open my Bible with the intention of seeking a specific message. I simply wanted to occupy my mind with anything spiritual. In any event, I hold nothing against the idea of resorting to the Scriptures for words of comfort and instruction.

Quote
But a friend of mine who is against this practice tells me that this does not usually work and that it could some times end up in terrible and detrimental results.

He narrated a case study in which a christian person who was in a serious emotional problem once tired to find a solution to his problem from the bible by randomly opening it and reading whatever catches his eyes. It so happened that his eyes fall on Matt.27:5 which reads "Then Judas went away and hanged himself". Being surprised by what he read, he decided to take a second trial inorder to make sure whether this message was really meant for him. So, for a second time he opened his bible randomly which took him to Luke 10:37 that reads "and Jesus said - go and do the same". And he went and hanged himself.

Satan is capable of using even the Holy Scriptures against man (e.g. temptation of Christ, the rise of heresies etc.). To be sure, though, nothing destructive or harmful can be inferred from the Holy Scriptures if one is properly grounded in the faith, rooted in prayer, nurtured by the Sacraments, and guided by counsel.

Christ modelled for us the way to overcome such Satanic suggestions, even when they are craftily based on the very word of God. The basic three elements of the temptation narrative pertinent for consideration in this regard are: Christ, a) was led by the Spirit, b) fasted, and c) prayed. If this "Christian person" followed Christ’s example he would have been able to refute Satan’s manipulation of the Scriptures in the same manner that Christ did viz., with appeal to the wider context of the Scriptures which clearly condemn such acts of despair.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 04:39:04 AM »

EkhristosAnesti, So you believe that your experience in the park was a miracle.

Regards,

Hiywot
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