Author Topic: Holy Fire in Jerusalem  (Read 5396 times)

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Offline Quinault

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Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« on: April 10, 2008, 11:07:52 PM »
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Pascha_Holy_Light/index.shtml

Has anyone been at the church of the Holy Sepulchre on Pascha Saturday?

This sounds absolutely awesome!

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 11:42:09 PM »
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Pascha_Holy_Light/index.shtml

Has anyone been at the church of the Holy Sepulchre on Pascha Saturday?

This sounds absolutely awesome!

Yes, I have been (1986), and yes, it's awesome! You will find my account on the "Holy Fire Website" here: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/svid_p_Grigory_A.htm

But Pascha is awesome in any Orthodox Church!
And in case anyone is wondering, yes, the Holy Light from last year is still going strong! ( see: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11469.msg155522.html#msg155522 )
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2008, 11:53:18 PM »
You will find some videos of the Holy Light ceremony in Jerusalem here: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/video.htm
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 11:57:09 PM »
But Pascha is awesome in any Orthodox Church!
And in case anyone is wondering, yes, the Holy Light from last year is still going strong! ( see: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11469.msg155522.html#msg155522 )

I've just now learned of this beautiful custom.  I'm going to try it with the 7 day votive candle and try to keep the flame going all year 'round.  Thanks Hadji George! :D
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2008, 08:34:08 PM »
I was there 2006. Very hot, very crowded, very uncomfortable, but very worth it!

I suppose I went in, rather naïvely, expecting to be totally transformed by witnessing this miracle. Instead, it made me realise that such miracles, while a great blessing, do not provide some kind of quick-fix, but merely make more apparent your inner disposition.

So while I would definately recommend anyone who has the opportunity to attend, celebrating the Resurrection of Christ can, as Ozgeorge pointed out, be just as meaningful and moving in any Orthodox church since it is how you approach it, not where you are, that matters.

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2008, 09:46:50 PM »
I was there 2006. Very hot, very crowded, very uncomfortable, but very worth it!

I suppose I went in, rather naïvely, expecting to be totally transformed by witnessing this miracle. Instead, it made me realise that such miracles, while a great blessing, do not provide some kind of quick-fix, but merely make more apparent your inner disposition.

So while I would definately recommend anyone who has the opportunity to attend, celebrating the Resurrection of Christ can, as Ozgeorge pointed out, be just as meaningful and moving in any Orthodox church since it is how you approach it, not where you are, that matters.
INDEED! ;D  Christ is risen just as much in the local parish church as in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.  (Now let us not get too excited yet, unless you follow the Gregorian Paschalion. ;))
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 10:46:08 PM »
I doubt I will ever make the trip there. I would love to, but it doesn't seem likely I will every be able to. Whether I am there or not, that is an awesome testament to Orthodoxy TRULY being the one true faith to my mind. I believed it before, but reading about the Holy Fire really cemented it.

Offline EofK

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 10:52:03 PM »
One thing I love about Orthodoxy is the quiet joy you see in ceremonies like this.  In some other forms of worship, this would be a major selling point and would be splashed over newspapers annually.  I never even knew this existed until last year. 
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 11:36:31 PM »
the quiet joy
I love this eloquent phrase which captures what my experience is of so much of our liturgy, Feasts, theology and traditions!
Thank you so much EofK!
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Offline Starlight

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 12:13:05 AM »
Thank you for excellent pictures and comments! I always wanted to go there. Hopefully, I will make it one day...

Offline EofK

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Re: Holy light
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 09:37:14 AM »
I love this eloquent phrase which captures what my experience is of so much of our liturgy, Feasts, theology and traditions!
Thank you so much EofK!

LOL... thanks!  [/sheepish grin]
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline Irish Hermit

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Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 11:06:42 PM »
I thought that I would offer the words of Pope Urban II on the Holy Fire in Jerusalem. There have been one or two scoffers (bestial and senseless men, the Pope calls them) who have written that it is all a fraud on the part of the Patriarch (he uses matches or a lighter, etc.)

Here is what Pope Urban said of the Holy Fire in 1096 when he was urging Western Christendom to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims:


"Of holy Jerusalem, brethren, we dare not speak, for we are exceedingly afraid and ashamed to speak of it. This very city, in which, as you all know, Christ Himself suffered for us, because our sins demanded it, has been reduced to the pollution of paganism and, I say it to our disgrace, withdrawn from the service of God. Such is the heap of reproach upon us who have so much deserved it! Who now serves the church of the Blessed Mary in the valley of Josaphat, in which church she herself was buried in body? But why do we pass over the Temple of Solomon, nay of the Lord, in which the barbarous nations placed their idols contrary to law, human and divine? Of the Lord's Sepulchre we have refrained from speaking, since some of you with your own eyes have seen to what abominations it has been given over. The Turks violently took from it the offerings which you brought there for alms in such vast amounts, and, in addition, they scoffed much and often 'at Your religion. And yet in that place (I say only what you already know) rested the Lord; there He died for us; there He was buried. How precious would be the longed for, incomparable place of the Lord's burial, even if God failed there to perform the yearly miracle! For in the days of His Passion all the lights in the Sepulchre and round about in the church, which have been extinguished, are relighted by divine command. Whose heart is so stony, brethren, that it is not touched by so great a miracle? Believe me, that man is bestial and senseless whose heart such divinely manifest grace does not move to faith!
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

Here is a web page on the Holy Fire, with accounts from Church authorities and pilgrims through the centuries.

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/



Seeing how this post follows so closely after a recent thread on the same topic, I went ahead and merged this into the earlier thread.  -PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 01:14:15 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 02:56:02 AM »
orthodox11, if you went to the holy place did you feel the fire? if so how hot or cold was the fire?.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 08:20:42 PM »
orthodox11, if you went to the holy place did you feel the fire? if so how hot or cold was the fire?.

The flame itself was warm I suppose, but not hot enough to burn you. The wax dripping from the candle did burn however. So while the flame didn't burn you if you put your hand in, it acted like normal fire when it came in contact with other things (as you'd expect - otherwise the candles wouldn't light).

Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 08:50:56 PM »
Thats strange i heard the fire doesnt burn your hand.And if armerians and copts are heretical, why are they stepping a foot into the holy sepulchre?.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 09:29:52 PM »
Thats strange i heard the fire doesnt burn your hand.

He said it didn't, and my Metropolitan (who's been there for Pascha) said the same.  All Orthodox11 said was that the wax burned when it dripped off the candle.

And if armerians and copts are heretical, why are they stepping a foot into the holy sepulchre?. 

Because our non-Christian governors force us to be quite civil with our neighbors.  It's a wonderful thing.
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Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 09:43:08 PM »
Its miraculous but you have everyone denying just another manifestation of god. Are armenians and copts Heretics? can someone answer this question?.We know they are schismatic and dont accept the 7 councils but have they done anything that constitutes heresy?

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 09:55:51 PM »
Its miraculous but you have everyone denying just another manifestation of god. Are armenians and copts Heretics? can someone answer this question?.We know they are schismatic and dont accept the 7 councils but have they done anything that constitutes heresy?

I don't want to brush your question off; however, if you'd like to talk about that, you should start a thread in the Eastern Orthodox - Oriental Orthodox Polemics forum (it's a private forum - PM FrChris to join).  We shouldn't discuss it here - let this thread be only about the Holy Fire.
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Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 09:46:18 AM »
How long doesnt the holy fire burn your physical body? or how much can your, say for instance, your hand tolerate the heat without harm?.

Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2008, 09:47:20 AM »
By the way orthodox11, is that you in your display picture?.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 09:55:28 AM »
How long doesnt the holy fire burn your physical body? or how much can your, say for instance, your hand tolerate the heat without harm?.

Well, "doesn't burn" means just that - it doesn't burn. I've heard it said that this is the case for the first 33mins, after which the flame assumes normal properties. But when you're in the Church you only get to have your candle lit for a very short time before u have to extinguish it so that the smoke doesn't suffocate anyone in what is an extremely crowded venue.

Quote
By the way orthodox11, is that you in your display picture?.

I don't think I'd have internet access if it was  :)

Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2008, 07:22:13 PM »
i want to know from your person experience, how long(duration) could you put your own hand on the lit candle unstoppingly?

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2008, 08:01:28 PM »
i want to know from your person experience, how long(duration) could you put your own hand on the lit candle unstoppingly?

Well, I can't tell you how long I could put my hand in since that implies I eventually got burned, which I didn't. So I don't have any personal experience as to how long one can place ones hand in the flame. I can tell you how long I did hold my hand in the flame continuously, which was a few (5-10) seconds.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 08:02:24 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline sohma_hatori

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Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2008, 03:12:16 AM »
Does it really not burn?
Have any of you touched the fire, or have participated in the ritual there?


MODERATION:
I have merged this post with this pre-existing thread.
George
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 04:27:29 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline theinformer

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2008, 09:00:49 PM »
whats that overall that that elder is wearing, looks fully sick.

Offline Rosehip

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2008, 09:25:04 PM »
What "overall" do you mean, informer, and what do you mean by "looks fully sick"?
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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2008, 10:29:53 PM »
whats that overall that that elder is wearing, looks fully sick.
You might send Orthodox11 a PM asking about his avatar so we can keep this thread on topic.
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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2009, 03:46:34 AM »
Are you allowed to bring your own candles instead of that white-paraffin ones?
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2009, 10:37:00 PM »
How long doesnt the holy fire burn your physical body? or how much can your, say for instance, your hand tolerate the heat without harm?.

Well, "doesn't burn" means just that - it doesn't burn. I've heard it said that this is the case for the first 33mins, after which the flame assumes normal properties. But when you're in the Church you only get to have your candle lit for a very short time before u have to extinguish it so that the smoke doesn't suffocate anyone in what is an extremely crowded venue.

Quote
By the way orthodox11, is that you in your display picture?.

I don't think I'd have internet access if it was  :)

The only video i've seen of people putting their hands into the flame was similar to running it through it, much like what you could do with a normal flame.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2009, 11:29:10 PM »
whats that overall that that elder is wearing, looks fully sick.

It's the Great Schema.

what do you mean by "looks fully sick"?

Sick = Good

Offline mike

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2009, 02:25:27 AM »
Quote
The only video i've seen of people putting their hands into the flame was similar to running it through it, much like what you could do with a normal flame.
With one candle - yes. Try it with a bunch of 33 candles.
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Offline mike

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2009, 07:12:55 AM »
Are you allowed to bring your own candles instead of that white-paraffin ones?

bump
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Offline mersch

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2009, 07:53:28 PM »
Are you allowed to bring your own candles instead of that white-paraffin ones?

bump

Off topic I know but havent been able to figure out what is meant  by   bump.

Offline mike

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2009, 03:47:22 AM »
Bring Up My Post
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Offline mersch

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Re: Holy Fire in Jerusalem
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2009, 09:47:36 AM »
Thank you