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Author Topic: In Jesus' Name, Amen.  (Read 2301 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: April 10, 2008, 03:34:13 PM »

As an evangelical, I always used to end a pray "In Jesus' Name, Amen". Does the Orthodox Church believe in ending a prayer like that? Since I've been moving toward Holy Orthodoxy, I've noticed that alot of the prayers don't end like that. It's been difficult for me to get used to. Why doesn't the Church end a prayer in the name of Jesus?
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 03:45:16 PM »

As an evangelical, I always used to end a pray "In Jesus' Name, Amen". Does the Orthodox Church believe in ending a prayer like that? Since I've been moving toward Holy Orthodoxy, I've noticed that alot of the prayers don't end like that. It's been difficult for me to get used to. Why doesn't the Church end a prayer in the name of Jesus?
Thanks and God Bless†

We typically end prayers with "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."  Why exclude the Father and the Holy Spirit, who are God together with the Son?
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2008, 03:51:05 PM »

I have to say that I love the fact the the Lords prayer is used so much in Orthodoxy. I never understood just how much meaning there was before I started saying it so frequently.
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 04:08:34 PM »

^ and no "In Jesus' Name, Amen"!
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 04:17:06 PM »

I have to say that I love the fact the the Lords prayer is used so much in Orthodoxy. I never understood just how much meaning there was before I started saying it so frequently.

The more I say it, the more in awe I become of it.  The more I use it, the more I tremble when I do pray it.  At least for me, the Lord's Prayer certainly has helped me to "work out my salvation in fear and trembling", particularly the part about forgiveness.  It's incredible.
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 04:32:30 PM »

We typically end prayers with "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."  Why exclude the Father and the Holy Spirit, who are God together with the Son?

Exactly!

This goes back to the Apostles.

In the Holy Church we start our prayers and end them "in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit; Amen"

As a note:

In the Ethiopian tradition we add at the ending.. "One God"; Amen

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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 06:34:17 PM »

The reason evangelicals say "In Jesus Name, Amen" is because Jesus said "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it". So, they specifically say "In Jesus Name". That's why it's so hard to get used to. I think evangelicals always think about that verse and some of them don't think "In the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is sufficient enough; that you have to specifically say "In Jesus Name" I was the same way, but I guess old habits die hard.
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 06:43:33 PM »

The reason for this (as I understand it), was because usually the trinitarian formula was avoided as being extra-biblical or a later addition at any rate, and it had a "catholic" feeling to it, which was also to be avoided at all costs...this comes about as a result of a firm belief in sola sciptura.
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 06:48:06 PM »

In the Ethiopian tradition we add at the ending.. "One God"; Amen

Thats not only an Ethiopian thing. The Deacon at my parish always says "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of Holy Spirit, One God; Amen" before he does a sermon.
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 06:50:40 PM »

The reason evangelicals say "In Jesus Name, Amen" is because Jesus said "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it". So, they specifically say "In Jesus Name". That's why it's so hard to get used to. I think evangelicals always think about that verse and some of them don't think "In the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is sufficient enough; that you have to specifically say "In Jesus Name" I was the same way, but I guess old habits die hard.
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If they're going to be that literal about it, shouldn't they be saying it in Aramaic?  After all, I doubt that the Lord told his disciples his name in 21st century English.
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2008, 06:51:46 PM »

The reason for this (as I understand it), was because usually the trinitarian formula was avoided as being extra-biblical or a later addition at any rate, and it had a "catholic" feeling to it, which was also to be avoided at all costs...this comes about as a result of a firm belief in sola sciptura.

I'm not sure how the Trinitarian formula is extra-biblical when the Lord gave the Great Commission in Matthew, telling his disciples to baptize all nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 07:00:36 PM »

The reason for this (as I understand it), was because usually the trinitarian formula was avoided as being extra-biblical or a later addition at any rate, and it had a "catholic" feeling to it, which was also to be avoided at all costs...this comes about as a result of a firm belief in sola sciptura.

Yeah, people seem to be intimidated by anything catholic. That's the way it is with most the people in my family.
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 07:01:46 PM »

I'm not sure how the Trinitarian formula is extra-biblical when the Lord gave the Great Commission in Matthew, telling his disciples to baptize all nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.


I don't know why that is either. There are some people who, while believing in the Bible, don't believe in the Holy Trinity. It seems odd to me.
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2008, 10:52:57 PM »

Why doesn't the Church end a prayer in the name of Jesus?
The real question, AISI, is "Why did the Protestants deviate from the ancient and hallowed practice of ending prayers with 'in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.  Amen.' ?" Wink
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2008, 11:20:11 PM »

Shamus,
What does it mean if I act in your name or ask for something in your name?
If I go to a court and ask the Judge for an ajudication "in Shamus' name", what does that mean?
It means that I am asking for something as though you were asking for that thing.
Would you want me to ask the Judge for something in your name which you didn't actually want? For instance, would you be uspet if I asked the Judge in your name to not pardon your offences, but to give you a lengthy prison sentance?
To act in your name means that I have Power of Attorney for you.
If I act in your name or ask for something in your name, your expectaion is that how I act or what I ask for is exactly how you would act or what you would ask for.
The same goes for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
To "ask the Father in His Name" means to pray for those things which Christ Himself prayed for. It means that, if what we pray for is in accordance with the Divine Will, it will be done for us.
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2008, 11:22:28 PM »

Shamus,
What does it mean if I act in your name or ask for something in your name?
If I go to a court and ask the Judge for an ajudication "in Shamus' name", what does that mean?
It means that I am asking for something as though you were asking for that thing.
Would you want me to ask the Judge for something in your name which you didn't actually want? For instance, would you be uspet if I asked the Judge in your name to not pardon your offences, but to give you a lengthy prison sentance?
To act in your name means that I have Power of Attorney for you.
If I act in your name or ask for something in your name, your expectaion is that how I act or what I ask for is exactly how you would act or what you would ask for.
The same goes for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
To "ask the Father in His Name" means to pray for those things which Christ Himself prayed for. It means that, if what we pray for is in accordance with the Divine Will, it will be done for us.
George

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2008, 11:37:15 PM »

Shamus,
What does it mean if I act in your name or ask for something in your name?
If I go to a court and ask the Judge for an ajudication "in Shamus' name", what does that mean?
It means that I am asking for something as though you were asking for that thing.
Would you want me to ask the Judge for something in your name which you didn't actually want? For instance, would you be uspet if I asked the Judge in your name to not pardon your offences, but to give you a lengthy prison sentance?
To act in your name means that I have Power of Attorney for you.
If I act in your name or ask for something in your name, your expectaion is that how I act or what I ask for is exactly how you would act or what you would ask for.
The same goes for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
To "ask the Father in His Name" means to pray for those things which Christ Himself prayed for. It means that, if what we pray for is in accordance with the Divine Will, it will be done for us.
George

Man, that made alot of sense. I don't think I've heard anyone explain it like that before. I appreciate it.
God Bless†
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 12:12:04 AM »

Shamus,
What does it mean if I act in your name or ask for something in your name?
If I go to a court and ask the Judge for an ajudication "in Shamus' name", what does that mean?
It means that I am asking for something as though you were asking for that thing.
Would you want me to ask the Judge for something in your name which you didn't actually want? For instance, would you be uspet if I asked the Judge in your name to not pardon your offences, but to give you a lengthy prison sentance?
To act in your name means that I have Power of Attorney for you.
If I act in your name or ask for something in your name, your expectaion is that how I act or what I ask for is exactly how you would act or what you would ask for.
The same goes for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
To "ask the Father in His Name" means to pray for those things which Christ Himself prayed for. It means that, if what we pray for is in accordance with the Divine Will, it will be done for us.
George
I guess, then, that there's nothing theologically wrong with the Protestant closing "in Jesus' name."  It's just that we don't use that in our Orthodox prayers.
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 12:23:58 AM »

I guess, then, that there's nothing theologically wrong with the Protestant closing "in Jesus' name."  It's just that we don't use that in our Orthodox prayers.

Depends on what you ask for and how you are asking for it.
It's the difference between:

"Lord, heal this man in Jesus' Name"


and:

"O Lord our God, Who by a word alone did heal all diseases, Who did cure the kinswoman of Peter, You Who chastise with pity and heal according to Your goodness; Who are able to put aside every sickness and infirmity, do You Yourself, the same Lord, grant aid to Your servant (name) and cure him (her) of every sickness of which he (she) is grieved; and send down upon him (her) Your great mercy, and if it be Your will, give to him (her) health and a complete recovery; for You are the Physician of our souls and bodies, and to You do we send up Glory: to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Both now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen."
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 01:00:09 AM »

I am an Orthodox Christian who believes that Orthodox Christianity is the Fullness of Truth, yet even I would not presume to act "in Jesus' Name".

The Apostles could act "in Jesus' Name" because they could discern the Divine Will, and were appointed by Christ to act in His Name. When the Apostles made a decree, they said: "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us...." (Acts 15:28) This is how the Church works to this day. The Bishops gather in an Ecumenical Synod to discern the will of the Holy Spirit. Who among us is able to say that something is the Will of God?

See what happened to those who presumed to act in Jesus' Name, but did not know Him fully:
"Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded." (Acts 19:13-16)

Our Bishops and Priests in the Orthodox Church act in Jesus' Name- in fact, they literally do so whenever they bless us or anything. They will hold the fingers of their hand to form the Name of Jesus and trace the Sign of the Cross with it (see below), because they are appointed to act "in Jesus' Name".
Those of us who presume to do so with out being appointed, and without knowing the Fullnes of Truth (Who is Our Lord Jesus Christ) may find ourselves in the same situation as the sons of Sceva mentioned above).

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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 09:13:36 AM »

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Seconded, thirded, and fourthed. Thank you very much, George. You've cleared up something that I've never truly understood, either when I was a Protestant and did pray "in Jesus' name" or when I became Orthodox and no longer did so. Threads like this attracted me to this site in the first place, and are the chief reason I became a moderator. Kudos!
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 12:52:05 PM »

I am an Orthodox Christian who believes that Orthodox Christianity is the Fullness of Truth, yet even I would not presume to act "in Jesus' Name".

The Apostles could act "in Jesus' Name" because they could discern the Divine Will, and were appointed by Christ to act in His Name. When the Apostles made a decree, they said: "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us...." (Acts 15:28) This is how the Church works to this day. The Bishops gather in an Ecumenical Synod to discern the will of the Holy Spirit. Who among us is able to say that something is the Will of God?

See what happened to those who presumed to act in Jesus' Name, but did not know Him fully:
"Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded." (Acts 19:13-16)

Our Bishops and Priests in the Orthodox Church act in Jesus' Name- in fact, they literally do so whenever they bless us or anything. They will hold the fingers of their hand to form the Name of Jesus and trace the Sign of the Cross with it (see below), because they are appointed to act "in Jesus' Name".
Those of us who presume to do so with out being appointed, and without knowing the Fullnes of Truth (Who is Our Lord Jesus Christ) may find ourselves in the same situation as the sons of Sceva mentioned above).




It makes sense that we're not suposed to act in Jesus name, because we can't, without a doubt know what His Divine Will is unless we pray what Jesus prayed for, as was mentioned above. But isn't it the same if we pray in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Isn't it the same as if we prayed in Jesus' name?...presuming to know the will of God?
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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 12:54:13 PM »



I think I heard my priest talk about that. I love the symbolism is Orthodoxy; like putting three fingers together to form the Holy Trinity when you cross yourself, and when the priest forms with his hand the name of Jesus...Anyway,

It makes sense that we're not suposed to act in Jesus name, because we can't, without a doubt know what His Divine Will is unless we pray what Jesus prayed for, as was mentioned above. But isn't it the same if we pray in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Isn't it the same as if we prayed in Jesus' name?...presuming to know the will of God?
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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2008, 01:16:56 PM »

In my parish, whenever we do a blessing service for a parishioner celebrating a milestone birthday (in my church, usually 80 Tongue) Father always blesses them with Holy Water and finishes the prayer with ".....in Jesus' name. Amen"
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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »

In the Coptic church we end the Our Father (Lord's prayer) with:

. . . but deliver us from evil.
In Christ Jesus our Lord,
Forever and ever, Amen.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, One God, Amen.
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2008, 05:24:11 PM »

Concluding a prayer with "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" acknowledges the Trinity.  A core requirement a Christian must believe in is the Trinity.  This statement serves as a reminder of his faith and a prayer to our beloved God, the Trinity one in essence and undivided.

Praying "in Jesus' name amen" doesn't recognise the Trinity.  Saying that statement alone affirms to the believer a very irregular and skewed take on Christianity.  Christianity is defined in the Nicene Creed, the Councils of the Church, her traditions and the New Testament......... sometimes you'll hear me refer to the core essential beliefs of Christianity as the Deposit of Faith.


If you ever want to know what a (Orthodox) Christian believes, read the Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come.

Amen.


In prayer and action it must all be in accordance with our Faith and belief, Lex Orendi Lex Credendi..
So praying "in Jesus' name amen" doesn't adhere to the core beliefs of Christianity. 

Also as Orthodox, as Christians we have been given set prayers and set instructions on how to pray.  So the Church teaches us to end the prayer with the "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." 

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