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Author Topic: Taking A New Name  (Read 27587 times) Average Rating: 0
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David Carroll
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« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2010, 11:31:48 PM »

If we took the rule of acquiring a Saint's name at every person's baptism to its logical conclusion, then wouldn't there be only about 12 different names in the set of Christian names.  For then the Christians who were baptized immediately after the twelve Apostles would have to take those Apostles' names.  But we know that most Christians in the first two or three centuries of the Church simply kept their pagan name, which in turn thereby became a Christian name upon their Glorification that future Christians would use. 

Then why can't I name my Child Thor or Ariadne, in the hope that he or she would become a Saint, whereon future Christians could take that name?
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2010, 02:34:40 AM »

Then why can't I name my Child Thor or Ariadne, in the hope that he or she would become a Saint, whereon future Christians could take that name?

There are at least two saints named Ariadne, with feast-days on August 22 and September 18.
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2010, 02:51:14 AM »

If we took the rule of acquiring a Saint's name at every person's baptism to its logical conclusion, then wouldn't there be only about 12 different names in the set of Christian names.  For then the Christians who were baptized immediately after the twelve Apostles would have to take those Apostles' names.  But we know that most Christians in the first two or three centuries of the Church simply kept their pagan name, which in turn thereby became a Christian name upon their Glorification that future Christians would use.
I think St. Vladimir, Baptizer of Rus, was himself baptized as Basil, yet we venerate him now as St. Vladimir.  ISTM that if we follow this precedent, you could take the name of a saint and keep your birth name and still have this birth name glorified should you live such a holy life that the Church deigns to glorify you as a saint.
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2010, 03:47:07 AM »


Then why can't I name my Child Thor or Ariadne, in the hope that he or she would become a Saint, whereon future Christians could take that name?

You would not be permitted to do that in the Russian Church.

You would be permitted to do that in the Serbian Church where there is no requirement to name a child with a Saint's name.

However, there really is a mountain of Saints' name available.  For example I post a daily e-mail of the Lives of the Celtic and Old English Saints.  That comprises a total of 1,200 names.    There are names such as Elvis and Samantha, and Summaryruff and Madhog, Caillen and Kelly, Finnian and Fillan, Goban and Judoc, Lasar and Lolan and hundreds more -----  all perfectly Orthodox names.
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« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2010, 02:46:33 PM »


 For example I post a daily e-mail of the Lives of the Celtic and Old English Saints. 

Pre-Schism Celtic and English Saints?
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« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2010, 09:34:16 PM »


 For example I post a daily e-mail of the Lives of the Celtic and Old English Saints.  

Pre-Schism Celtic and English Saints?

I am not really aware of any post-schism ones.   laugh
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« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2010, 12:40:14 AM »

When I was a catechumen I was very inspired by the writings and life of Archbishop AVERKY (Taushev) of Jordanville. Upon becoming Orthodox I was blessed to take the name Averky. Of course, there are also several early Christian saints by that name as well.
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« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2010, 01:26:52 PM »

Re William . Also from Guillaume in French  don't know how reliable this info is but there is St Guillaume en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Gellone
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« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2010, 11:16:16 AM »

I gather I would probably be allowed to keep the name Christine at chrismation? I can't imagine being anything else.
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« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2010, 11:36:08 AM »

There's a Russian woman at my parish with a child named "Christina" so it must be okay. BTW, I love your avatar/icon! Do you have any information on this beautiful icon and where it can be purchased? Many, many thanks!
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« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2010, 11:49:46 AM »

I kept my name since my parents named me explicitly for the Prophet-King David. But I have also wondered, does this practice of taking a saints' names mean there will be no more new names to choose from in the future? Is the deposit of names to choose from static now?
The practice of giving a new name at an adult's baptism is not known in my church's tradition.

 I'm just curious, but is the reason for this because most, if not all, people in Romania already have Christian names? 
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« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2010, 12:40:52 PM »

I kept my name since my parents named me explicitly for the Prophet-King David. But I have also wondered, does this practice of taking a saints' names mean there will be no more new names to choose from in the future? Is the deposit of names to choose from static now?
The practice of giving a new name at an adult's baptism is not known in my church's tradition.

 I'm just curious, but is the reason for this because most, if not all, people in Romania already have Christian names? 
It could be, but it's not something highly rationalized; it just doesn't happen, you don't have to bear a "calendaristic" name.
I've have so many "Florica", "Florea" etc in my family. They were baptized as such, having no patron saints in the calendar so to speak. They kept Palm Sunday, though, as their patronal name's day.
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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2010, 01:22:13 PM »

If we took the rule of acquiring a Saint's name at every person's baptism to its logical conclusion, then wouldn't there be only about 12 different names in the set of Christian names.  For then the Christians who were baptized immediately after the twelve Apostles would have to take those Apostles' names. 

No, they could take the names of Old Testament righteous as well... but I don't think the rule was so firmly set in those days. Hence we have saints with names like Dionysius.

Quote
Then why can't I name my Child Thor or Ariadne, in the hope that he or she would become a Saint, whereon future Christians could take that name?

If you were a pagan converting to Christianity, I suppose that would be alright. But now that you're a Christian, it makes sense to choose the names of saints.

BTW, Saint Vladimir of Kiev was baptized with the name "Basil" but today we know him as St. Vladimir. So new names can still be added to the Church.
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« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2010, 01:58:40 PM »

BTW, I love your avatar/icon! Do you have any information on this beautiful icon and where it can be purchased? Many, many thanks!

It is beautiful, isn't it? It's one of the avatars you can choose for your profile (#2728). I found this site, which credits Rev. Luke Dingman, but I'm not sure where you can buy it. I don't see it on Rev. Dingman's site anymore, but maybe you can contact him directly?
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« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2010, 02:56:50 PM »

BTW, I love your avatar/icon! Do you have any information on this beautiful icon and where it can be purchased? Many, many thanks!

It is beautiful, isn't it? It's one of the avatars you can choose for your profile (#2728). I found this site, which credits Rev. Luke Dingman, but I'm not sure where you can buy it. I don't see it on Rev. Dingman's site anymore, but maybe you can contact him directly?

Thanks, Chrissy! The icon is really beautiful. I love the orange background. For some reason, it speaks to me deeply-I am not always so struck by icons, but this one is something amazing.
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« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2010, 03:16:03 PM »

I gather I would probably be allowed to keep the name Christine at chrismation? I can't imagine being anything else.

I've found information on 3 Saints with that name, so I suppose it won't be a problem.
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« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2010, 04:34:08 PM »

My priest chrismated me with the name Peter, but only after some confusion...I had wanted to take the name "David," which was and is my legal first name.  When I was tonsured a reader, I (re)took the name David.

It fits: I read his psalms, I've carried his name for thirty years, and my birthday is Dec. 27th, which is either very close or, in the case of this last birthday of mine, right on his commemoration of the Sunday after Nativity.  Feels very organic and natural.
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« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2010, 04:39:31 PM »

Taking a new name during a reader tonsure?
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« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2010, 04:48:21 PM »

Taking a new name during a reader tonsure?

Yep.  He said that, theoretically, someone could take a new name each time he was tonsured/ordained something...though I think that would be pretty fickle if someone felt compelled to do that that often.
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« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2010, 07:45:45 PM »

When I first decided to convert I wanted to take the name Constantine, mainly because it was the only saint I knew of. However, my name is Christopher and my priest urged me to take the name of St. Christopher which is awesome because I feel I can relate to him more.
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« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2010, 09:01:47 PM »

I have been trying to think about a saint's name. I hope to be chrismated (God willing) at some time next year. I need to pray about it. Also, I have been reading 'A Cloud of Witnesses,' by Bishop Demetri Khoury, and 'Lives of Saints,' by Sebastian Dabovich, so I'm hoping these will help.   Smiley  angel
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« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2010, 10:56:42 PM »

I have been trying to think about a saint's name. I hope to be chrismated (God willing) at some time next year. I need to pray about it. Also, I have been reading 'A Cloud of Witnesses,' by Bishop Demetri Khoury, and 'Lives of Saints,' by Sebastian Dabovich, so I'm hoping these will help.   Smiley  angel

Sebastian Dabovich is most certainly a saint! Did you know that his official glorification is said to be "in the works"? He's one of our own, home-grown American saints, and a Serb to the bone. A special connection for those of us who were led into Orthodoxy through the Serbian Church.
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« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2010, 12:27:46 AM »

My birth name is James, which I pretty much use in everyday life.  When I was baptized, I took St. Cyprian as my patron, and go by that in the Church.  Not because I dislike my name, or that I prefer one saint to another, but there are deep, personal reasons that St. Cyprian is my patron.  Not sure if this really helps anyone, just felt this was the most appropriate place to share.
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« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2010, 02:25:35 AM »

I chose to take a new name at Christmation, for many reasons. I also chose to go to court and take it legally afterwards.

I oopted to take St. Vladimir as my patron saint, and his name as mine. Due to a little last minute confusion, and for the sake of my [protestant] parents' comfort, I was Christmated Vladimir James..., but legally ended up James Vladimir... I also kept my original middle name legally, and ended up with an obnoxiously long 4-names lol.

St. Vladimir was a natural fit... Many factors worked together at the same time, bringing me to Orthodoxy. The two most physical inspirations were the suggestion of a (curiously enough, menonite) professor, who suggested trying an Orthodox church as a way to get "in touch" with my Russian heritage. In addition, at the same time I was studying medieval Russian history, which is basically the history of the Russian Orthodox Church, [basically] starting with St. Vladimir. These two factors, along with some spiritual ones, brought me to the Orthodox church.

I chose to take it legally as a permament reminder of my faith, and a weapon in the battle of faith. I think it is easy for faith and spirituality to get sidelined or minimzed (pushed to the back of one's mind if you will), and physical reminders of the importance of those things make great weapons!
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- James / Vladimir
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« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2010, 06:50:33 PM »


 Once a person has chosen, or been given a new name, how customary is it to go by one's new name?  Only at Church services, all the time, rarely or does it matter?  I tend to gravitate to wanting to be addressed by my saints name and the one that the Church formally recognizes, though I don't insist on it (especially at work).  But, I might consider it if that be the Church's Tradition.  Thoughts? 
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« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2010, 06:53:27 PM »

Well, I know some people (even Priests) whose civil name if different from their Church name. They use their civil name mostly and their Church name - only during services (confession, approaching the Chalice, proskomedia etc.).
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« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2010, 07:02:57 PM »

I can see the arguments for both opinions (adopting one's new name everywhere vs. only in church).  Although it does seem to me that adopting one's new name, even changing it legally, would seemlessly fit into the idea of "putting on the New Man."  Afterall, becoming an Orthodox Christian really is a complete 180 degree turn (metanoia?) and adopting a completely new identity.  Still, I'm curious as to what, if anything, the Church says.
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« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2010, 08:00:20 PM »

I did not start going by Vladimir. There are several reasons for this, from just the simplicity of it, to other more important issues. Most people that know me well do know it was added legally. I am wondering if when I move to Russia in January I will start to use it. My only concern is giving off any false impressions by introducing myself as Vladimir (either that I speak fluent Russian, or that I am one of those weirdo Americans that just made up a name because, well I am weird [yea I knew people like that when I went to Russia before]). Smiley

EDIT: As I mentioned before I was changing my first name to Vladimir, making James my middle name... but switched at the last minute for my parents' sake. (Despite telling them several times it was going to happen, they were "surprised" when it was time). I did however tell them I will at some point do it again and follow the first plan. Whether that will ever happen or not, who knows. Changing your name is kind of a frustrating process  Cheesy.
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« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2010, 10:01:05 PM »

I use my secular name in secular contexts, but when I am speaking with Orthodox Christians I tend to push the idea of referring to me by my baptismal name a little.
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« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2010, 12:28:07 AM »

My Priest just had me use my name Edmund after St Edmund of East Anglia who was killed by vikings in the 800's. Its tough finding Icons of him though.
Have you seen this one?




Quite an interesting story; It says that after being killed he was decapitated and his head was found by a friendly wolf.

Cool i've never seen the top one before very nice. I have seen the bottom one in fact I have it prined out from computer and its my icon of him. Its hard to find them to buy though. I've only found one place that has one. I plan on buying it soon. Thanks for the pics.
Yes it is an interesting story his head was taken away buy a friendly wolf and ended up in France. His body became a major pilgrimage site in England up until the reformation when the Anglicans destroyed his relics and his shrine. Ironicaly today since France remained Catholic they have relics of him but England the place where he came from doesnt.

Also, have you checked out this site?:

http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/icons/Icons-Edmund.htm

And for everyone with Western names, you might try this awesome site. There are TONS of saints on this list - WITH ICONS!

http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/icons/Western.html
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« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2011, 12:16:38 PM »

My Priest just had me use my name Edmund after St Edmund of East Anglia who was killed by vikings in the 800's. Its tough finding Icons of him though.
Have you seen this one?

I think England would be the best place to find an icon of St Edmund. Check out Aidan Hart Icons www.aidanharticons.com for handmade originals and commissions, or Pilgirm Icons of Walsingham http://www.pilgrimgifts.co.uk/ for printed board and silkscreen icons. The silkscreen icons are illumined with imitation goldleaf, which glows like the real thing, from £20 (about $25 +p&p)

My avatar icon of St Aidan is by Aidan Hart
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« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2011, 12:52:21 PM »


Then why can't I name my Child Thor or Ariadne, in the hope that he or she would become a Saint, whereon future Christians could take that name?

You would not be permitted to do that in the Russian Church.

You would be permitted to do that in the Serbian Church where there is no requirement to name a child with a Saint's name.

However, there really is a mountain of Saints' name available.  For example I post a daily e-mail of the Lives of the Celtic and Old English Saints.  That comprises a total of 1,200 names.    There are names such as Elvis and Samantha, and Summaryruff and Madhog, Caillen and Kelly, Finnian and Fillan, Goban and Judoc, Lasar and Lolan and hundreds more -----  all perfectly Orthodox names.

St. Elvis? Now that's rich...  laugh
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« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2011, 02:39:08 AM »

I have a question which I haven't thought about till now, at 1230 am my time.  I was confirmed in the Catholic Church, I know my confirmed name is Catherine or Katherine- I do not honestly remember why I chose this name for confirmation. Would I retain that name when confirmed in the Orthodox church since several accept the sacraments of the Catholic Church, or chose a new name? Just a random thought....
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« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2011, 02:56:46 AM »

No reason why you can't keep Katherine.  Your Patron Saint would then be St. Katherine of Alexandrea, Great-Martyr (11/25).
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« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2011, 04:33:55 AM »

I have a question which I haven't thought about till now, at 1230 am my time.  I was confirmed in the Catholic Church, I know my confirmed name is Catherine or Katherine- I do not honestly remember why I chose this name for confirmation. Would I retain that name when confirmed in the Orthodox church since several accept the sacraments of the Catholic Church, or chose a new name? Just a random thought....

You are being misled if you are wishing to retain this name on the basis of the idea that we commonly accept the Roman communion as having legitimate Christian Sacraments.
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« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2011, 08:56:22 PM »

When a man named William at church was chrismated he asked the priest to choose a name for him. The priest, after study and prayer, decided on Alexander Nevsky, since William was an army officer. So not just a similar name can be chosen but something else to match the saint with the person.
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« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2011, 10:02:36 PM »

My mother was insistant that I be named after a Saint whose name was recorded in the NT, much to father's chagrin as it was not "Irish".

Funny thing is that when I mention my name is a Saint from the NT, people look at me like I am crazy and ask if I am sure, unless they are protestant.

Let's be honest, protestants for the most part pwn OCs and RCs on Biblical recall.

Never ceases to amaze me. They will even argue that it ain't Greek, till I bring up it's pagan context, then they have an aha!, but still are surprised it is in the NT.

Guess what it is. Unless you already know from PMs here and whatnot.
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« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2011, 11:19:12 PM »

My mother was insistant that I be named after a Saint whose name was recorded in the NT, much to father's chagrin as it was not "Irish".

Funny thing is that when I mention my name is a Saint from the NT, people look at me like I am crazy and ask if I am sure, unless they are protestant.

Let's be honest, protestants for the most part pwn OCs and RCs on Biblical recall.

Never ceases to amaze me. They will even argue that it ain't Greek, till I bring up it's pagan context, then they have an aha!, but still are surprised it is in the NT.

Guess what it is. Unless you already know from PMs here and whatnot.
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« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2011, 11:37:33 PM »

I have never gone by my church name for anything other than sacraments, but I used to know people who would call me by it even outside church.  I told them I preferred to be called by my legal name over my church name, but some of them became rather pushy and harassing about calling me by that name, and implied I was a bad Christian for *not* going by it.  Anybody else ever had to deal with someone who did that? 

Most people have been rather nice about it and didn't push the issue, and consequently I didn't mind whether they called me one name or the other.  It was when people didn't listen, and kept doing it out of spite, that it became offensive.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 11:42:56 PM by Orual » Logged

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« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2011, 11:38:40 PM »

Guess what it is. Unless you already know from PMs here and whatnot.

Dionysius?
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« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2011, 03:41:30 AM »

This is a case where you all are too smart for yourselves. Very common name in the English speaking world, or at least American speaking.

It will be an eye-roller, but proves my point about people (not you all) not knowing their Bible.
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« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2011, 03:46:45 AM »

This is a case where you all are too smart for yourselves. Very common name in the English speaking world, or at least American speaking.

It will be an eye-roller, but proves my point about people (not you all) not knowing their Bible.
Jason

24th most common male name in the US according to the 1990 census, and the name of a saint mentioned in Romans 16:21 (also a name mentioned quite frequently in the books of the Maccabees, though not at all in the rest of the OT)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 03:55:22 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2011, 04:14:23 AM »

This is a case where you all are too smart for yourselves. Very common name in the English speaking world, or at least American speaking.

It will be an eye-roller, but proves my point about people (not you all) not knowing their Bible.
Jason

24th most common male name in the US according to the 1990 census, and the name of a saint mentioned in Romans 16:21 (also a name mentioned quite frequently in the books of the Maccabees, though not at all in the rest of the OT)

Bingo!

A famous baby name book from the 80's: Beyond Jennifer and Jason.

The up to date version is: Beyond Jennifer & Jason, Madison & Montana: What to Name Your Baby Now.

EDIT: See Acts 17
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 04:16:09 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2011, 01:57:25 PM »

This is a case where you all are too smart for yourselves. Very common name in the English speaking world, or at least American speaking.

It will be an eye-roller, but proves my point about people (not you all) not knowing their Bible.
Jason

24th most common male name in the US according to the 1990 census, and the name of a saint mentioned in Romans 16:21 (also a name mentioned quite frequently in the books of the Maccabees, though not at all in the rest of the OT)

Bingo!

A famous baby name book from the 80's: Beyond Jennifer and Jason.

The up to date version is: Beyond Jennifer & Jason, Madison & Montana: What to Name Your Baby Now.

EDIT: See Acts 17
I had a childhood friend named Jason. We spent a lot of our afternoons playing one-on-one football or just plain ol' wrastling in the grass. He was always stronger than I, so he always won.
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« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2011, 12:58:51 PM »

I didn't have much of a choice in my chrismation name.  Neither the priest nor I discussed it previously and I was rather nervous so he chrismated me "Bill", short for William.  The only St. William's I knew were all post 1054 until I found an obscure French monastic from the 8th century.  I hope nobody's going to tell me there is a St. Bill. 

If you're talking about St. Guilhem-le-Desert, it was hardly obscure! St. William of Gellone, the founder, was a very famous saint in his day, and his monastery (now called St. William of Orange in English) was a very important pilgrimage site. It was also along the route to Compostella, which made it a popular resting spot.

Until the 11th century or so, most saints were canonized by the local bishop. Then, as the pope began arrogating more power to himself, he started claiming the exclusive right to proclaim saints. The monks of St. Guilhem didn't want to lose their status (and presumably their income), so they asked to have him canonized a second time by the pope, in 1066. But his cult was widely celebrated from the ninth century on.
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