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Author Topic: Orthodox Christian Eschatology Association  (Read 1924 times) Average Rating: 0
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GabrieltheCelt
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« on: March 27, 2008, 12:22:22 PM »

I thought this would be the best place to put this since my question has to do with The Orthodox Christian Eschatology Association at http://orthodoxendtimes.com/ and not eschatology itself.  Mods, if I goofed, feel free to move it where it belongs.  That being said, has anyone heard of this organization?  Are they legit?
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 04:32:30 PM »

They don't connect themselves to any one church or organization, according to their website.  No names are placed on it.  I would be VERY VERY suspicious if I were you. 
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 02:19:45 AM »

Given their address in Scottsdale, AZ, they could be affiliated with one of the monasteries of Elder Ephraim - specifically, St. Anthony's.  One of their links specifically includes St. Anthony's Monastery and provides the telephone number for the monastery.  The website is also very old and outdated since they haven't bothered updating the links to St. Anthony's Monastery although someone pays the domain fees to keep the site up and running for those interested in the Eschatology of the Orthodox faith and cannot bring themselves to read Revelation.
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 07:19:31 AM »

Could be ...or not. St Anthony's website is up to date (man, that seems so weird...I know, I know, monasteries DO have websites, but it sounds so modernist  Wink
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 01:10:02 PM »

Given their address in Scottsdale, AZ, they could be affiliated with one of the monasteries of Elder Ephraim - specifically, St. Anthony's.  One of their links specifically includes St. Anthony's Monastery and provides the telephone number for the monastery.  The website is also very old and outdated since they haven't bothered updating the links to St. Anthony's Monastery although someone pays the domain fees to keep the site up and running for those interested in the Eschatology of the Orthodox faith and cannot bring themselves to read Revelation.

Careful... check it out before deciding. The suggesteed connection may be one-sided.

My family found Orthodoxy through a similar situation. Dad met a guy at work that sounded good, and talked a great line. Said he was connected to a nearby Monestary. Mom and Dad were intrigued but thought some of what he said sounded a bit odd and strange. They went to the Monastary. The monks explained. The guy was NOT connected with them and further more, his info was not accurate to Orthodoxy (translation- he was a Nut). My parents, now feeling cautious, new of the existance of a Greek Cathedral.  They called the Catherdal just to be sure, and the authenticity of the Monastary was verified. My parents returned to the mission served by the Monastary for more information, and well, the rest is history.
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 07:11:03 PM »

Careful... check it out before deciding. The suggesteed connection may be one-sided.

My family found Orthodoxy through a similar situation. Dad met a guy at work that sounded good, and talked a great line. Said he was connected to a nearby Monestary. Mom and Dad were intrigued but thought some of what he said sounded a bit odd and strange. They went to the Monastary. The monks explained. The guy was NOT connected with them and further more, his info was not accurate to Orthodoxy (translation- he was a Nut). My parents, now feeling cautious, new of the existance of a Greek Cathedral.  They called the Catherdal just to be sure, and the authenticity of the Monastary was verified. My parents returned to the mission served by the Monastary for more information, and well, the rest is history.

Elder Ephraim and his followers follow a charismatic type of Orthodox monasticism which can be beneficial or dangerous - almost to cult-like status.  Note that the guy talking to the poster's father said that he was "connected" to a nearby Monastery which means that he was the lay connection between the Monastery, the outside world and the Church (which explains why the Monastery denied his existence while the Church acknowledged the existence of the Monastery).  The following quote presents items not usually associated with Orthodox monasticism or the Orthodox faith in general.

While devoting myself to my spiritual father there, a man named Fr. (or Geronda) Paisios, I was taught in confession that Jews are united in a conspiracy to destroy Orthodox Christianity, that man never landed on the moon, that my death and martyrdom was most likely imminent, that abstaining from sexual relations with my wife for the rest of my life was the only way to reach "theoria". I was shown an icon which depicted Martin Luther, the Pope, and Muhammad drowning in water outside of a boat that represented the Orthodox Church. I was told that America embodied the "satanic Western mindset" and needed to be "purged" by devout Orthodox Christians. I witnessed the mental and physical abuse of children at the hands of their parents who were disciples at St. Anthony's and acting on their spiritual father's teachings. I was taught to whip myself with electrical chord to "discipline" my flesh and many other harmful and destructive things. 

from http://pseudo-prophet.tripod.com/index.html
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 07:35:18 PM »

Quote
  The following quote presents items not usually associated with Orthodox monasticism or the Orthodox faith in general.

While devoting myself to my spiritual father there, a man named Fr. (or Geronda) Paisios, I was taught in confession that Jews are united in a conspiracy to destroy Orthodox Christianity, that man never landed on the moon, that my death and martyrdom was most likely imminent, that abstaining from sexual relations with my wife for the rest of my life was the only way to reach "theoria". I was shown an icon which depicted Martin Luther, the Pope, and Muhammad drowning in water outside of a boat that represented the Orthodox Church. I was told that America embodied the "satanic Western mindset" and needed to be "purged" by devout Orthodox Christians. I witnessed the mental and physical abuse of children at the hands of their parents who were disciples at St. Anthony's and acting on their spiritual father's teachings. I was taught to whip myself with electrical chord to "discipline" my flesh and many other harmful and destructive things. 

from http://pseudo-prophet.tripod.com/index.html
[/quote]

Sadly, many elements of the above sound all too familiar...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 07:35:49 PM by Rosehip » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2008, 09:58:18 PM »

While devoting myself to my spiritual father there, a man named Fr. (or Geronda) Paisios, I was taught in confession that Jews are united in a conspiracy to destroy Orthodox Christianity, that man never landed on the moon, that my death and martyrdom was most likely imminent, that abstaining from sexual relations with my wife for the rest of my life was the only way to reach "theoria". I was shown an icon which depicted Martin Luther, the Pope, and Muhammad drowning in water outside of a boat that represented the Orthodox Church. I was told that America embodied the "satanic Western mindset" and needed to be "purged" by devout Orthodox Christians. I witnessed the mental and physical abuse of children at the hands of their parents who were disciples at St. Anthony's and acting on their spiritual father's teachings. I was taught to whip myself with electrical chord to "discipline" my flesh and many other harmful and destructive things. 

from http://pseudo-prophet.tripod.com/index.html
Somewhere, somehow, I remember seeing a very strong online refutation of this slanderous claim.

Here's one such site:  http://www.athosinamerica.org/
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 10:20:46 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2008, 10:11:25 PM »

Somewhere, somehow, I remember seeing a very strong online refutation of this slanderous claim.

I've seen a number of sites in defense of the Ephraim monasteries as well except that there have been more stories of the cult-like influences.

My hunch is that the Archdiocese has instructed the Metropolitans to keep these monasteries in check for fear of losing pilgrimages - my relatives visit the Ephraim monastery in Roscoe, New York a few times a year.

Just because one believes that a cult cannot exist in Orthodoxy does not mean that someone can try to establish a cult, replacing Christ with oneself.
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2008, 10:57:13 PM »

I've seen a number of sites in defense of the Ephraim monasteries as well except that there have been more stories of the cult-like influences.
Have you investigated these stories to see where they're coming from?  Sheer volume alone (more stories on the side of falsehood than on the side of truth) does not make a story more credible.  Maybe those who talked of Elder Ephraim's "cult-like" influence were merely the more vocal.

Quote
My hunch is that the Archdiocese has instructed the Metropolitans to keep these monasteries in check for fear of losing pilgrimages - my relatives visit the Ephraim monastery in Roscoe, New York a few times a year.
And what does your hunch mean if it is merely a response to slander?  Do you really know anything about these monasteries except what you've read from those who have launched an online smear campaign?

Quote
Just because one believes that a cult cannot exist in Orthodoxy does not mean that someone can try to establish a cult, replacing Christ with oneself.
True.  But is it possible that one may devote himself to a cult-like following of a particular figure who does not want this following?  After all, many of the Lystran locals wanted to worship St. Paul as though he were Hermes (along with St. Barnabas, whom they acclaimed as Zeus), yet Paul and Barnabas would not allow them to do so.  (cf. Acts 14:8-18)


ps. To show such disrespect to Elder Ephraim as to drop the title "Elder" from his name diminishes your credibility here.  Please get yourself in the habit of referring to our bishops, priests, and abbots by their formal titles and not by their names only.
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 12:36:37 AM »

ps. To show such disrespect to Elder Ephraim as to drop the title "Elder" from his name diminishes your credibility here.  Please get yourself in the habit of referring to our bishops, priests, and abbots by their formal titles and not by their names only.

My sincere apologies and I'll restrain my speech while trying to get across my points by using the proper terms of address.

I have my "gut feeling" about these monasteries based on what I've read and what my relatives have told me.  I have never visited a monastery and I admit that I'm a relative unknown when dealing with monasticism.  I'm actually hesitant to visit a monastery based on the stories that I've read about cult-like personas and the like.

I do not want to think that the Elder Ephraim has defined Orthodox Christian monasticism in the United States.  I'll concede that the monastics have done an excellent job with church music and other efforts.  Put it another way, not many of David Koresh's followers lived to tell about life inside the commune and I'm under the belief that the government ought to have left David Koresh alone.  With the followers of Elder Ephraim - there are few people who tell their experiences whether good or bad.
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 01:00:19 AM »

Somewhere, somehow, I remember seeing a very strong online refutation of this slanderous claim.
Here's one such site:  http://www.athosinamerica.org/

No one has posted anything in 6 years; However, someone finds a way to keep the domain running.
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