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Author Topic: Conversions in Philipines  (Read 87792 times) Average Rating: 5
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ialmisry
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« Reply #315 on: January 31, 2009, 02:07:02 AM »


The Patriarch of Antioch is the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East.  It seems the Philippines are in the East.
It appears that Russia,

uh, no.  Russia is in the North.  And Antioch would have to go through Constantinople to get there.

Quote
China, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia etc are also in the East. So according to your line of reasoning ialmisry the Patriarch of Antioch is also the canonical Patriarch of Russia, China  "and all the East".

Russia is autocephalous.  She elected her canonical Patriarch just recently.  Patriarch Ignatius of Antioch will be commemorating Patriarch Cyril in the diptychs.

Quote
Please stop fooling yourself ialmisry.

 Roll Eyes

The Church of Russia reached China, Korea and Japan, and, so it seems, the Philippines , first.  Yet the EP saw fit to install its own hierarchy in those areas.  In the case of China and Korea, for the greater good, given circumstances.  In Japan, for no good purpose.  Where does that leave the Philippines?

Quote
Again ialmisry, please do a little more research.


A little hard 10,000 miles away.

Quote
It is not the Russians who came "first" in the Philippines.

So far, the only claims, let alone documentation, that I have seen with the first Orthodox Church in the Philippines, are those of the Russians.

Quote
There were already Greeks, Armenians and Syrians in Manila during the 1800's.

As I think I've stated, knowing the facts behind such statements in the US makes me wonder about their applicability in the Philippines.

 
Quote
Likewise there is no historical record or any documentary evidence whatsoever that the Church of Russia installed its own hierarchy (or a native Orthodox hierarchy) in the Philippines

The above mentioned Orthodox Cathedral, and St. John's presence, which I haven't seen denied by anyone.

Quote
(this only exist in the imaginations of vagante Patriarchs and unfortunately also your wild imaginations ialmisry).

 Roll Eyes
Quote
If you can't provide any material and documentary evidence to support your allegations then you better stop imagining and assuming things.  The fact is, the EP has already installed its own hierarchy for the Philippines and South East Asia since 1997 and thus establishing the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA). From 1997 up to 2008, His Eminence Metropolitan Nikitas has made numerous Pastoral visits to the Philippines and other countries in South East Asia under his canonical jurisdiction.
 

Btw, I know His Eminence quite well, back in the day when he was just Father Nikitas.

Quote
The present Antiochian Hierarch, His Eminence Archbishop Paul Saliba only set foot (again CLANDESTINELY) in the Philippines in OCTOBER 2007 to ordain a Filipino-American as a Deacon for the now defunct "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Mission in the Philippines" but the whole enterprise  ended in a fiasco. I said clandestinely because nobody from the local canonical Orthodox clergy under EP was informed of this undertaking by the then Metropolitan Archbishop now Primate of the Philippines, His Eminence Paul Saliba. The failed enterprise was described by a priest from  another jurisdiction as "a big blunder on the part of the Archbishop."  Sadly that was not the last "blunder" but only the first.

By the way the official website of  OMHKSEA has been recently updated. Please visit:
Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA)
http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/

I hope that there can a good resolution to all of this.  We are supposed to be brothers.  We hell,
wrong place.
Quote
I'm not even fully Orthodox yet.  It is things like this that remind me that the important thing is my own local church and seeking Christ there, not trying to fix the whole Orthodox world!
AMEN.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 02:09:14 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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filipiniana
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« Reply #316 on: January 31, 2009, 02:58:32 AM »


uh, no.  Russia is in the North.  And Antioch would have to go through Constantinople to get there.
Tongue

Oh no! The Philippines is in South East Asia.

Russia is autocephalous.  She elected her canonical Patriarch just recently.  Patriarch Ignatius of Antioch will be commemorating Patriarch Cyril in the diptychs.

So that clearly explains why the Antiochian Patriarch can not claim himself as "Patriarch of ALL the EAST"  Roll Eyes


The above mentioned Orthodox Cathedral, and St. John's presence, which I haven't seen denied by anyone.


What Russian "Cathedral" and where is this Cathedral?  You are imagining things again ialmisry Roll Eyes




Quote
The present Antiochian Hierarch, His Eminence Archbishop Paul Saliba only set foot (again CLANDESTINELY) in the Philippines in OCTOBER 2007 to ordain a Filipino-American as a Deacon for the now defunct "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Mission in the Philippines" but the whole enterprise  ended in a fiasco. I said clandestinely because nobody from the local canonical Orthodox clergy under EP was informed of this undertaking by the then Metropolitan Archbishop now Primate of the Philippines, His Eminence Paul Saliba. The failed enterprise was described by a priest from  another jurisdiction as "a big blunder on the part of the Archbishop."  Sadly that was not the last "blunder" but only the first.

By the way the official website of  OMHKSEA has been recently updated. Please visit:
Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA)
[/url]


Have a look at this site, this is the result of Archbishop Paul Saliba's first  "big blunder" in the Philippines:

http://www.orthodox.org.ph/



« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 03:06:10 AM by filipiniana » Logged

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« Reply #317 on: January 31, 2009, 07:33:01 AM »


Now for the brighter side of canonical Orthodoxy in the Philippines, let me share to my Filipino Orthodox faithful abroad this good news:

New Ordinations

On Friday 12 and Saturday 13 December (2008), Metropolitan Nektarios of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia ordained two new clergyman in Manila, Philippines. The new Priest, Fr.George, is married an has five children and he will serve in Masbate, South Philippines. In Masbate there is a small Orthodox Community and the Monastery of the Birth of Theotokos with four Nuns. The new Deacon, Fr. James, is married and has three children. He will serve in Manila at the Annunciation Cathedral.



 

SOURCE: Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia


...
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« Reply #318 on: January 31, 2009, 08:20:10 AM »

Photo Gallery from Antiochian metropolitan's visit.

Now for the brighter side of canonical Orthodoxy in the Philippines, let me share to my Filipino Orthodox faithful abroad this good news:

Both Antiochian and Constatninopolitan are canonical and are in communion. They are both the same faith and the same Church, no matter what do You think about this. You may not accept Antiochian practises (for me Novus Ordo is also something at least strange) but You cannot insult the one jurisdiction and say it's better than the other one. Practises may be better, more proper but the "importance" is the same.

There are many areas where are several different EO canonical jurisdictions. For example in the USA there are bout 15 not 2 You have in Your country.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 08:27:45 AM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #319 on: January 31, 2009, 08:25:30 AM »

I note in your reference to  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/

you fail to note that the Liturgies that they publish are those utilized by the Eastern Orthodox Church, namely:
Wedding Service  
Liturgy Saint James Jerusalem  
Liturgy Saint Basil Caesarea  
Liturgy Saint John Chrysostom  
Deacons Typika with Hours  
Readers Typika with Hours  
Ordination to Deacon  
 
According to all that I have read in official Antiochian resources these are the liturgies that they are to progress to in short course. Their documents note their Patriarchate and they are under the Antiochian Patrirachate.

Wishing all Orthodox Christians in the Phillipines blessed unity in my prayers.

Thomas
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 10:00:33 PM by Thomas » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #320 on: January 31, 2009, 09:54:37 AM »


uh, no.  Russia is in the North.  And Antioch would have to go through Constantinople to get there.
Tongue

Oh no! The Philippines is in South East Asia.

I am aware of that, but you started with Russia.  Which, btw, is also how Chalcedonian Orthodoxy started in the Far East, with Russia.

Russia is autocephalous.  She elected her canonical Patriarch just recently.  Patriarch Ignatius of Antioch will be commemorating Patriarch Cyril in the diptychs.

Quote
So that clearly explains why the Antiochian Patriarch can not claim himself as "Patriarch of ALL the EAST"  Roll Eyes

The Patriach has been carrying that title ever since, well, ever since Antioch has had a patriarchate, which is for some time now.

As the tomos of Russia's autocephalacy shows, Russia is in the North.


The above mentioned Orthodox Cathedral, and St. John's presence, which I haven't seen denied by anyone.


Quote
What Russian "Cathedral" and where is this Cathedral?  You are imagining things again ialmisry Roll Eyes

In 1935, a Russian parish was established in Manila, and the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia appointed Father Mikhail Yerokhin as vicar. The Episcopal Church then permitted Fr. Mikhail to use the north transept of their cathedral for worship. In 1937, the first Orthodox church was built and was named after the Iberian Icon of the Mother of God. This also became the first Orthodox altar in the Philippines. Later, both the Episcopal Cathedral and the Russian Orthodox church in Manila were destroyed during the Second World War.
http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodoxy_in_the_Philippines



Quote
The present Antiochian Hierarch, His Eminence Archbishop Paul Saliba only set foot (again CLANDESTINELY) in the Philippines in OCTOBER 2007 to ordain a Filipino-American as a Deacon for the now defunct "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Mission in the Philippines" but the whole enterprise  ended in a fiasco. I said clandestinely because nobody from the local canonical Orthodox clergy under EP was informed of this undertaking by the then Metropolitan Archbishop now Primate of the Philippines, His Eminence Paul Saliba. The failed enterprise was described by a priest from  another jurisdiction as "a big blunder on the part of the Archbishop."  Sadly that was not the last "blunder" but only the first.

By the way the official website of  OMHKSEA has been recently updated. Please visit:
Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA)
[/url]


Have a look at this site, this is the result of Archbishop Paul Saliba's first  "big blunder" in the Philippines:

http://www.orthodox.org.ph/


[/quote]

OK, what's the blunder shown?
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« Reply #321 on: January 31, 2009, 09:59:36 AM »

I note in your reference to  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/

you fail to note that the Liturgies that they publish are those utilized by the Eastern Orthodox Church, namely:
Wedding Service  
Liturgy Saint James Jerusalem  
Liturgy Saint Basil Caesarea  
Liturgy Saint John Chrysostom  
Deacons Typika with Hours  
Readers Typika with Hours  
Ordination to Deacon  
 
According to all that I have read in official Antiochian resources these are the liturgies that they are to progress to in short course. Their documents note their Patriarchate and they are under the Antiochian Patrirachate.

Wishing all Othodox Christians in the Phillipines blessed unity in my prayers.

Thomas

Mr Thomas,
Please be informed that this particular "orthodox" group in Manila which call itself  the "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas"  (Orthodox Church in the Philippines"  and who owns the website  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/ is NOT in communion with the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines nor the EP.  The said "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas" was registered at the Philippine SEC by Father Christopher Gain, a former deacon under the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand in 2006. Christopher Gain was "released" from the Antiochian Archdiocese in 2007.  This group which calls itself the "Orthodox Church in the Philippines" was the result of that "big blunder".  They do not recognize the Primate in Australia but they call themselves "Antiochian".  So now everything is clear ialmisry?

« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 10:03:17 AM by filipiniana » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #322 on: January 31, 2009, 10:06:17 AM »


Now for the brighter side of canonical Orthodoxy in the Philippines, let me share to my Filipino Orthodox faithful abroad this good news:

New Ordinations

On Friday 12 and Saturday 13 December (2008), Metropolitan Nektarios of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia ordained two new clergyman in Manila, Philippines. The new Priest, Fr.George, is married an has five children and he will serve in Masbate, South Philippines. In Masbate there is a small Orthodox Community and the Monastery of the Birth of Theotokos with four Nuns. The new Deacon, Fr. James, is married and has three children. He will serve in Manila at the Annunciation Cathedral.



 

SOURCE: Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia


...

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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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« Reply #323 on: January 31, 2009, 10:20:45 AM »




The above mentioned Orthodox Cathedral, and St. John's presence, which I haven't seen denied by anyone.


Quote
What Russian "Cathedral" and where is this Cathedral?  You are imagining things again ialmisry Roll Eyes

In 1935, a Russian parish was established in Manila, and the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia appointed Father Mikhail Yerokhin as vicar. The Episcopal Church then permitted Fr. Mikhail to use the north transept of their cathedral for worship. In 1937, the first Orthodox church was built and was named after the Iberian Icon of the Mother of God. This also became the first Orthodox altar in the Philippines. Later, both the Episcopal Cathedral and the Russian Orthodox church in Manila were destroyed during the Second World War.
http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodoxy_in_the_Philippines


Where is the Orthodox Cathedral?  You said "Orthodox Cathedral". I don't see any Orthodox Cathedral in your reference ialmisry

 Please read the whole context. Let me explain it to you in simple English: The Cathedral belongs to the Episcopal Church in the Philippines who allowed the Russians in 1935 to use "the north transept" since they don't have a place of worship and the "first Orthodox Church" (not a Cathedral!) was  yet to be built in 1937. The Orthodox WIKI did not say that the first Orthodox Church which was named after the Iberian Icon of the Theotokos was also a "Cathedral".   Is everything clear now, ialmisry?

« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 10:30:28 AM by filipiniana » Logged

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« Reply #324 on: January 31, 2009, 10:36:52 AM »

I note in your reference to  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/

you fail to note that the Liturgies that they publish are those utilized by the Eastern Orthodox Church, namely:
Wedding Service  
Liturgy Saint James Jerusalem  
Liturgy Saint Basil Caesarea  
Liturgy Saint John Chrysostom  
Deacons Typika with Hours  
Readers Typika with Hours  
Ordination to Deacon  
 
According to all that I have read in official Antiochian resources these are the liturgies that they are to progress to in short course. Their documents note their Patriarchate and they are under the Antiochian Patrirachate.

Wishing all Othodox Christians in the Phillipines blessed unity in my prayers.

Thomas

Mr Thomas,
Please be informed that this particular "orthodox" group in Manila which call itself  the "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas"  (Orthodox Church in the Philippines"  and who owns the website  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/ is NOT in communion with the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines nor the EP.  The said "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas" was registered at the Philippine SEC by Father Christopher Gain, a former deacon under the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand in 2006. Christopher Gain was "released" from the Antiochian Archdiocese in 2007.  This group which calls itself the "Orthodox Church in the Philippines" was the result of that "big blunder".  They do not recognize the Primate in Australia but they call themselves "Antiochian".  So now everything is clear ialmisry?



Is this the release you speak of?
Quote
04  Fr Dn Chris Gain appointed Chaplain to Students in Manila

Father Deacon Chris Gain, formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus, has been appointed Orthodox Chaplain of Students at the National Episcopal Theological Seminary of Saint Andrew in Quezon City, MetroManila, The Philippines.

Father Deacon Chris is the Director of the Orthodox Studies Centre on the Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus.

Making the announcement, the dean of the seminary, Very Reverend Tomas Maddela said, "I am delighted Father Chris was prepared to accede to my request to assist the seminary in this way. Having pastorally experienced clergy with the wide life experience of Father Chris is just what students need. Since he is outside the seminary authority structure, students may feel more comfortable with him than with faculty members who have disciplinary responsibilities over the students."

Father Chris said, "Although I am occupied establishing the three Orthodox parishes in Barangay Violago and surrounding barangays, I live on Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus, and some of the seminary students are taking postgraduate courses at the Orthodox Studies Centre. I see seminary students every day, so it is a natural step in furthering good relations and understanding of Orthodoxy with our separated brothers and sisters of the Anglican and Independiente traditions in the Philippines. I am pleased to be able to assist in this honorary appointment too."

http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/664/1/
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
filipiniana
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« Reply #325 on: January 31, 2009, 10:44:00 AM »

I note in your reference to  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/

you fail to note that the Liturgies that they publish are those utilized by the Eastern Orthodox Church, namely:
Wedding Service  
Liturgy Saint James Jerusalem  
Liturgy Saint Basil Caesarea  
Liturgy Saint John Chrysostom  
Deacons Typika with Hours  
Readers Typika with Hours  
Ordination to Deacon  
 
According to all that I have read in official Antiochian resources these are the liturgies that they are to progress to in short course. Their documents note their Patriarchate and they are under the Antiochian Patrirachate.

Wishing all Othodox Christians in the Phillipines blessed unity in my prayers.

Thomas

Mr Thomas,
Please be informed that this particular "orthodox" group in Manila which call itself  the "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas"  (Orthodox Church in the Philippines"  and who owns the website  http://www.orthodox.org.ph/ is NOT in communion with the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines nor the EP.  The said "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas" was registered at the Philippine SEC by Father Christopher Gain, a former deacon under the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand in 2006. Christopher Gain was "released" from the Antiochian Archdiocese in 2007.  This group which calls itself the "Orthodox Church in the Philippines" was the result of that "big blunder".  They do not recognize the Primate in Australia but they call themselves "Antiochian".  So now everything is clear ialmisry?



Is this the release you speak of?
Quote
04  Fr Dn Chris Gain appointed Chaplain to Students in Manila

Father Deacon Chris Gain, formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus, has been appointed Orthodox Chaplain of Students at the National Episcopal Theological Seminary of Saint Andrew in Quezon City, MetroManila, The Philippines.

Father Deacon Chris is the Director of the Orthodox Studies Centre on the Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus.

Making the announcement, the dean of the seminary, Very Reverend Tomas Maddela said, "I am delighted Father Chris was prepared to accede to my request to assist the seminary in this way. Having pastorally experienced clergy with the wide life experience of Father Chris is just what students need. Since he is outside the seminary authority structure, students may feel more comfortable with him than with faculty members who have disciplinary responsibilities over the students."

Father Chris said, "Although I am occupied establishing the three Orthodox parishes in Barangay Violago and surrounding barangays, I live on Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus, and some of the seminary students are taking postgraduate courses at the Orthodox Studies Centre. I see seminary students every day, so it is a natural step in furthering good relations and understanding of Orthodoxy with our separated brothers and sisters of the Anglican and Independiente traditions in the Philippines. I am pleased to be able to assist in this honorary appointment too."

http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/664/1/

The said former Deacon has nothing to do with the Antiochian Primate of the Philippines anymore nor the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines.  As far as I know, the Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas is an Independent "orthodox" group.  I consider it a vagante group. That's all I can say. If you want more information regarding this group write directly to the Antiochian Primate in Australia.
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« Reply #326 on: January 31, 2009, 11:05:50 AM »

Father Deacon Chris Gain, formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus, has been appointed Orthodox Chaplain of Students at the National Episcopal Theological Seminary of Saint Andrew in Quezon City, MetroManila, The Philippines.

The said former Deacon has nothing to do with the Antiochian Primate of the Philippines anymore nor the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines.  As far as I know, the Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas is an Independent "orthodox" group.  I consider it a vagante group. That's all I can say. If you want more information regarding this group write directly to the Antiochian Primate in Australia.


Am I missing/forgetting part of the story?  "Released to the Patriarchate in Damascus."  The Patriarchate in Damascus (on the "street called Straight" Acts 9:11, btw) is part of the Patriarchate of Antioch.  I've been there, and at the Cathedral in Antioch, trust me.

Now, what Fr. Gain's present status is, I don't know.  Anything concrete?
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« Reply #327 on: January 31, 2009, 11:17:00 AM »

Father Deacon Chris Gain, formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus, has been appointed Orthodox Chaplain of Students at the National Episcopal Theological Seminary of Saint Andrew in Quezon City, MetroManila, The Philippines.

The said former Deacon has nothing to do with the Antiochian Primate of the Philippines anymore nor the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines.  As far as I know, the Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas is an Independent "orthodox" group.  I consider it a vagante group. That's all I can say. If you want more information regarding this group write directly to the Antiochian Primate in Australia.




Am I missing/forgetting part of the story?  "Released to the Patriarchate in Damascus."  The Patriarchate in Damascus (on the "street called Straight" Acts 9:11, btw) is part of the Patriarchate of Antioch.  I've been there, and at the Cathedral in Antioch, trust me.

Now, what Fr. Gain's present status is, I don't know.  Anything concrete?

Lets talk about it using the PM. Is that okay for you, almisry?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 11:17:36 AM by filipiniana » Logged

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« Reply #328 on: January 31, 2009, 11:43:37 AM »

Please don't. Personally I also know to get to know something about this issues. Is the deacon canonical or not?

BTW Could someone send me that 2 photos of ordination because the website seems broken and I want to look at them one more time?
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« Reply #329 on: January 31, 2009, 12:25:06 PM »

Please don't. Personally I also know to get to know something about this issues. Is the deacon canonical or not?

BTW Could someone send me that 2 photos of ordination because the website seems broken and I want to look at them one more time?

The OMHKSEA server appears to be down as of this writing. Perhaps I can still find the images stored in my computer's "cache" (I'm using Firefox not Internet Explorer"). 

Please note that  there are TWO websites carrying the name of the Antiochian Archdiocese .  One is with Father Cristopher (click) as Weblord. This "Father Cristopher" is also known as Deacon Father "Chris Gain".

The other website http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/ is the new and the "Official" one  and if you will look carefully, a Disclaimer is written at the bottom  which reads and I quote (please take note of the words in red):


Warning/Disclaimer
This is the official website of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Please be aware that the website http://www.antiochian.org.au is no longer the official website of the Archdiocese. Any material placed on that website after 27th April 2007 is not authorised by the Archdiocese or the Archbishop Metropolitan Paul Saliba and the Archdiocese and the Archbishop disclaim any responsibility for that material.

+++

On July 2007 an article was posted in the old Antiochian Archdiocese website by Father Christopher "Chris" Gain, weblord of that site which reads:

Quote

04  Fr Dn Chris Gain appointed Chaplain to Students in Manila

Father Deacon Chris Gain, formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus, has been appointed Orthodox Chaplain of Students at the National Episcopal Theological Seminary of Saint Andrew in Quezon City, MetroManila, The Philippines.

Father Deacon Chris is the Director of the Orthodox Studies Centre on the Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus.

Making the announcement, the dean of the seminary, Very Reverend Tomas Maddela said, "I am delighted Father Chris was prepared to accede to my request to assist the seminary in this way. Having pastorally experienced clergy with the wide life experience of Father Chris is just what students need. Since he is outside the seminary authority structure, students may feel more comfortable with him than with faculty members who have disciplinary responsibilities over the students."

Father Chris said, "Although I am occupied establishing the three Orthodox parishes in Barangay Violago and surrounding barangays, I live on Saint Andrew's Theological Seminary campus, and some of the seminary students are taking postgraduate courses at the Orthodox Studies Centre. I see seminary students every day, so it is a natural step in furthering good relations and understanding of Orthodoxy with our separated brothers and sisters of the Anglican and Independiente traditions in the Philippines. I am pleased to be able to assist in this honorary appointment too."



SOURCE: http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/664/1/


So now you decide whether the said deacon and his church in the Philippines, the "Iglesia Orthodoxa ng Pilipinas" (Orthodox Church in the Philippines) is canonical or not.
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« Reply #330 on: January 31, 2009, 12:45:04 PM »

Please note that  there are TWO websites carrying the name of the Antiochian Archdiocese .  One is with Father Cristopher (click) as Weblord. This "Father Cristopher" is also known as Deacon Father "Chris Gain".

The other website http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/ is the new and the "Official" one  and if you will look carefully, a Disclaimer is written at the bottom  which reads and I quote (please take note of the words in red):


Warning/Disclaimer
This is the official website of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Please be aware that the website http://www.antiochian.org.au is no longer the official website of the Archdiocese. Any material placed on that website after 27th April 2007 is not authorised by the Archdiocese or the Archbishop Metropolitan Paul Saliba and the Archdiocese and the Archbishop disclaim any responsibility for that material.
 
This is very strange indeed.
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« Reply #331 on: January 31, 2009, 12:56:38 PM »

Please note that  there are TWO websites carrying the name of the Antiochian Archdiocese .  One is with Father Cristopher (click) as Weblord. This "Father Cristopher" is also known as Deacon Father "Chris Gain".

The other website http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/ is the new and the "Official" one  and if you will look carefully, a Disclaimer is written at the bottom  which reads and I quote (please take note of the words in red):


Warning/Disclaimer
This is the official website of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Please be aware that the website http://www.antiochian.org.au is no longer the official website of the Archdiocese. Any material placed on that website after 27th April 2007 is not authorised by the Archdiocese or the Archbishop Metropolitan Paul Saliba and the Archdiocese and the Archbishop disclaim any responsibility for that material.
 
This is very strange indeed.

Many strange things happened  ever since the Antiochians set foot in the Philippines. I find it also very strange that the newly ordained Antiochian priests are dressed as Roman Catholics, use Novus Ordo Mass and unleavened wafers in their liturgy...Thats very strange, very strange indeed!!

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« Reply #332 on: January 31, 2009, 01:09:46 PM »

In Damascus there is headquarter of Patriarchate of Antioch. So maybe this means that metropolitan Paul released fr. Chris from his jurisdiction and he is now directly under the patriarch or some other Antiochian hierarch. I have completely no idea why he was released from the Archdiocese and is under different bishop despite still living in the Philippines.
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« Reply #333 on: January 31, 2009, 01:12:04 PM »

In Damascus there is headquarter of Patriarchate of Antioch. So maybe this means that Metropolitan Paul released Fr. Chris from his jurisdiction and he is now directly under the Patriarch or some other Antiochian hierarch. I have completely no idea why he was released from the Archdiocese and is under different bishop despite still living in the Philippines.
Mike,
the Antiochian Archdiocese in Australia is neither Autonomous nor Autocephalous (as it is in the USA). It is itself directly under the Patriarcharchate of Antioch.
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« Reply #334 on: January 31, 2009, 01:16:54 PM »

I know. But there's written that he is not under the metropolitan Paul because he had released him. But he may be under another Antiochian bishop (patriarch, patriarchal vicar, any other hierarch) because there's written (at least I understand it in such a way) that he remained in the Church of Antioch.

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formerly of the Australian Antiochian Archdiocese and released in February 2007 by Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia to the Patriarchate in Damascus

to filipiniana: I'd be grateful if You found them.

BTW I've found an interesting Constantinonopolitan-Filipino Orthodox site.
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« Reply #335 on: January 31, 2009, 02:00:14 PM »

ECUMENICAL PATRIARCHATE
ORTHODOX METROPOLITANATE OF HONG KONG
 AND SOUTH EAST ASIA
Announcement

http://orthodox.cn/contemporary/20080724omhksea_en.htm

The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia expresses its surprise at all the inaccuracies in the announcement released on 15th April 2008 by the Synod of the Church of Russia, and in the declarations of His Holiness Alexios, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, on 24th June 2008, regarding the canonical jurisdiction of the Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia.

In order to restore the truth we state that the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia was founded by decision of the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in the year 1996, as a detachment from the Orthodox Metropolitanate of New Zealand. It has under its spiritual jurisdiction, and is developing missionary and charitable activities in, 23 countries of South East Asia: Hong Kong, the People's Republic of China, Taiwan, Macao, Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar, Mongolia, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Timor, Maldives, Bangladesh, Nepal, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.

In these countries, even before the foundation of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong, there worked with incomparable missionary zeal and a spirit of sacrifice the late Metropolitan of Proussa, Dionysios, as Metropolitan of New Zealand, and Sotirios, Metropolitan of Pisidia, as Archimandrite and Protosyngellos (Chancellor) of the Holy Metropolitanate of New Zealand, and then Bishop of Zila. Missionary work in the countries of South East Asia took on a more systematic character with the founding of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and the election of the first Metropolitan, Nikitas, who for 11 years toiled successfully to develop the work of mission. All three missionary Bishops mentioned above worked as missionaries with zeal and prudence, and those whom they baptized and to whom they taught the Orthodox faith bear witness to their work.

On 9th January 2008, the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, in order to better carry out missionary work, took the decision to split up the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong, which had already existed as a Metropolitanate for 12 years, and to create a new Metropolitanate, with Singapore as the seat of its see, and elected a new Metropolitan for the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong. The following countries came under the canonical jurisdiction of the new Orthodox Metropolitanate: Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Timor, Maldives, Bangladesh, Nepal, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.

It is clear that, on 9th January the Ecumenical Patriarchate proceeded to founding a new Orthodox Metropolitanate, and not to the expansion of the jurisdiction of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong.

The actions and decisions of the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate are carried out within the framework of universal mission and service to the nations of the First Throne Great Church of Christ, as defined by the 2nd and 4th Ecumenical Councils with their respective wise and unambiguous decisions, which are binding for all Orthodox.

The accusations launched by the Church of Russia against the Ecumenical Patriarchate, that supposedly it is impinging on the rights of the so-called "Autonomous Church of China" and that allegedly it is breaking the unity of the Orthodox Churches, concern us, for sadly we see that in this connection it is the Church of Russia that is overlooking in an inept manner what the Church in its entirety has decided, and is proceeding to unilateral proclamations of "Autonomous Churches" and speaks of "rights over countries", reminding us of secular states of an old feudalistic kind.

The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia, with the grace of God, is struggling to remain faithful to Orthodox tradition and practice, established by the God-bearing Fathers of our Holy Church. It remains faithful to the martyr-like, First Throne and Apostolic Ecumenical Patriarchate, for it knows that the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the Great Church of Christ, which is faithful to its apostolic responsibility and service throughout the world, which were assigned to Her by decisions of Ecumenical Councils, has been labouring for centuries day and night to sustain and develop missionary Churches, and principally for the unity and stability of all the Orthodox Churches.

We should understand that in the modern age the Orthodox Churches must bear witness and carry out missionary work united, without antagonistic attitudes and egotistical claims. The preservation of unity, which is a command of our Lord Jesus Christ, gives credence to the witness of Orthodoxy and keeps it far from the stain of nationalistic, political and other intentions.

Hong Kong, July 23rd 2008

From the Office of
ORTHODOX METROPOLITANATE OF HONG KONG
 AND SOUTH EAST ASIA
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« Reply #336 on: January 31, 2009, 02:06:21 PM »

We should understand that in the modern age the Orthodox Churches must bear witness and carry out missionary work united, without antagonistic attitudes and egotistical claims.
Do egotistical claims include declaring one's self "Archbishop of the Phillipines" as does Archbishop Paul Saliba on his new website?
I thought Bishops were appointed, and not that they themselves decided what is to come under their ormorphion.
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« Reply #337 on: January 31, 2009, 04:54:42 PM »

We should understand that in the modern age the Orthodox Churches must bear witness and carry out missionary work united, without antagonistic attitudes and egotistical claims.
Do egotistical claims include declaring one's self "Archbishop of the Phillipines" as does Archbishop Paul Saliba on his new website?
I thought Bishops were appointed, and not that they themselves decided what is to come under their ormorphion.

Points of information:

1.  A Metropolitan is also an Archbishop.

2.  In the DL in the Metropolis for NJ (GOA), we pray for our Archbishop Evangelos.  If His Emimence Evangelos chooses not to refer to Himself as an Archbishop, that is His Eminence's prerogative.
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« Reply #338 on: January 31, 2009, 05:22:04 PM »

Points of information:

1.  A Metropolitan is also an Archbishop.

2.  In the DL in the Metropolis for NJ (GOA), we pray for our Archbishop Evangelos.  If His Emimence Evangelos chooses not to refer to Himself as an Archbishop, that is His Eminence's prerogative.
Yes, but what on Earth has that got to do with why Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia and New Zealand has decided last year to make himself the Archbishop of the Phillipines?
You seem to have missed the point.
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« Reply #339 on: January 31, 2009, 07:01:08 PM »

Points of information:

1.  A Metropolitan is also an Archbishop.

2.  In the DL in the Metropolis for NJ (GOA), we pray for our Archbishop Evangelos.  If His Eminence Evangelos chooses not to refer to Himself as an Archbishop, that is His Eminence's prerogative.
Yes, but what on Earth has that got to do with why Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia and New Zealand has decided last year to make himself the Archbishop of the Philippines?
You seem to have missed the point.

You're saying that the Philippines is outside of Met. Paul's canonical territory; Hence, His Eminence has crossed the line by calling Himself Archbishop of something that He isn't?  Unfortunately, there is precedence when the 8 Dioceses in the USA became Metropolises with a stroke of a pen.  If the Antiochian Metropolitan of Australia and New Zealand wants to call Himself Archbishop of the Philippines, who's going to stop Him?   Huh
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« Reply #340 on: January 31, 2009, 07:18:21 PM »

Points of information:

1.  A Metropolitan is also an Archbishop.

2.  In the DL in the Metropolis for NJ (GOA), we pray for our Archbishop Evangelos.  If His Eminence Evangelos chooses not to refer to Himself as an Archbishop, that is His Eminence's prerogative.
Yes, but what on Earth has that got to do with why Archbishop Paul Saliba of Australia and New Zealand has decided last year to make himself the Archbishop of the Philippines?
You seem to have missed the point.
You're saying that the Philippines is outside of Met. Paul's canonical territory; Hence, His Eminence has crossed the line by calling Himself Archbishop of something that He isn't?  Unfortunately, there is precedence when the 8 Dioceses in the USA became Metropolises with a stroke of a pen.  If the Antiochian Metropolitan of Australia and New Zealand wants to call Himself Archbishop of the Philippines, who's going to stop Him?

As usual, what is your point?  The question here is about assuming new territory for oneself, not whether the titles of existing territory are changed by someone else.
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« Reply #341 on: January 31, 2009, 07:37:57 PM »

As usual, what is your point?  The question here is about assuming new territory for oneself, not whether the titles of existing territory are changed by someone else.

I was only providing points of information and precedences and not making any point.   Smiley

There are canonical issues in the Philippines.  One Hierarch jumped the gun and declared Himself Archbishop of the Philippines resulting in stress and concern which are compounded with the existing stress and concern of canonical issues throughout the world.  What is one to to do, depose the Archbishop of the Philippines to resolve the canonical problem?   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #342 on: January 31, 2009, 08:54:43 PM »

What is one to to do, depose the Archbishop of the Philippines to resolve the canonical problem?   Roll Eyes
Is there anyone to depose? Has anyone apart from himself recognised him as the "Archbishop of the Philippines"? If I call myself "The Archbishop of the Blue Mountains" do I need to be deposed?
If we want to resolve this jurisdictional mess as we all claim to want to do, I don't think the answer lies in declaring ourselves Bishops of Provinces outside our jurisdiction.
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« Reply #343 on: January 31, 2009, 10:19:19 PM »

This is really quite simple. The real question is this:  Has His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, given Metropolitan Paul that title ,if he has, it is something for the Patriarchs to settle among themselves.  If Metropolitan Paul gave himself the title then it is up to His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, to determine his action in the response to assuming a title without his permission.

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« Reply #344 on: January 31, 2009, 10:44:53 PM »

This is really quite simple. The real question is this:  Has His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, given Metropolitan Paul that title ,if he has, it is something for the Patriarchs to settle among themselves.  If Metropolitan Paul gave himself the title then it is up to His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, to determine his action in the response to assuming a title without his permission.
I'm afraid it's not that "simple" Thomas. The Orthodox Metropolis of Honk Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA) has existed since 1996. The only "simple" thing is that an Antiochian Bishop (whether with or without permission of his Patriarchate) has taken another Bishop's jurisdiction and is bringing to the Philippines the same jurisdictional mess that exists in the US, Australia & the UK- to the shame and detriment of Orthodoxy worldwide.
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« Reply #345 on: January 31, 2009, 11:03:43 PM »

Oh, and one more thing Thomas; How do you explain that an Antiochian Deacon (Fr. Chris Gain) should be released from the jurisdiction of the supposed "Archbishop of the Phillipines" to join the Antiochian Patriarchate in the Phillipines?
Why would the Antiochian "Archbishop of the Philippines" not have jurisdiction over an Antiochian Deacon in the Philippines?
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« Reply #346 on: January 31, 2009, 11:10:01 PM »

What is one to to do, depose the Archbishop of the Philippines to resolve the canonical problem?   Roll Eyes
Is there anyone to depose? Has anyone apart from himself recognised him as the "Archbishop of the Philippines"? If I call myself "The Archbishop of the Blue Mountains" do I need to be deposed?

The facts can establish that Metropolitan Paul established a non-canonical Archbishop of the Philippines; Hence, Met. Paul has deposed Himself and no one has to depose whatever the former Met. Paul has now become.

You made your point.  I can't believe the Philippines have become the USA of the 1920's in terms of canonical nonsense.  I've had it with history repeating itself.   Angry

If we want to resolve this jurisdictional mess as we all claim to want to do, I don't think the answer lies in declaring ourselves Bishops of Provinces outside our jurisdiction.

Inter-Orthodox Schism is the only realistic solution to these canonical messes.   Sad
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« Reply #347 on: January 31, 2009, 11:33:42 PM »

Just a question. Do you know that Metropolitan Paul  independently  did what he did? 

I know that when Metropolitan Philip accepted the EOC into the Antiochian Archdioses in the US, it was in response to being blessed to do so by the Patriarch. I am not an expert in canon law but I find very few modern evidences that anything  the bishops (Metropolitans, etc) do this large is without  making their Patriarch aware of it either in the Patriarchate of Constantinople or the Patriarchate of Antioch. To do so would result in a Spiritual court for disobedience to the Patriarchate. There is too much that is unanswered in this issue and since the Patriarch of Constantinople and The Patriarch of Antioch are still in communion with each other and there has been no ceasing of commemoration activity as we have found with the Patriarchate of Moscow and Contsntinople in the recent past, it must not be an important issue to them at this time.

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« Reply #348 on: January 31, 2009, 11:35:24 PM »

Just a question. Do you know that Metropolitan Paul  independently  did what he did? 
Does that matter Thomas? Read again what I wrote in response to you:
This is really quite simple. The real question is this:  Has His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, given Metropolitan Paul that title ,if he has, it is something for the Patriarchs to settle among themselves.  If Metropolitan Paul gave himself the title then it is up to His Beatitude Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and the all East, to determine his action in the response to assuming a title without his permission.
I'm afraid it's not that "simple" Thomas. The Orthodox Metropolis of Honk Kong and South East Asia (OMHKSEA) has existed since 1996. The only "simple" thing is that an Antiochian Bishop (whether with or without permission of his Patriarchate) has taken another Bishop's jurisdiction and is bringing to the Philippines the same jurisdictional mess that exists in the US, Australia & the UK- to the shame and detriment of Orthodoxy worldwide.
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« Reply #349 on: January 31, 2009, 11:36:38 PM »

And Thomas, I'd really like you to explain this irregularity:
Oh, and one more thing Thomas; How do you explain that an Antiochian Deacon (Fr. Chris Gain) should be released from the jurisdiction of the supposed "Archbishop of the Phillipines" to join the Antiochian Patriarchate in the Phillipines?
Why would the Antiochian "Archbishop of the Philippines" not have jurisdiction over an Antiochian Deacon in the Philippines?

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« Reply #350 on: January 31, 2009, 11:50:27 PM »

Oh, and one more thing Thomas; How do you explain that an Antiochian Deacon (Fr. Chris Gain) should be released from the jurisdiction of the supposed "Archbishop of the Phillipines" to join the Antiochian Patriarchate in the Phillipines?
Why would the Antiochian "Archbishop of the Philippines" not have jurisdiction over an Antiochian Deacon in the Philippines?


Once again I am not a canonist.  It would seem to me that there are many Greek priests and Deacons who have been released over the years from their local diocese/Archdiocese to be assigned and under the direct supervision of the Phanar when working directly for the Patriarchate. I know we have had Antiochian priests  released to serve at the OCA (for example father Tassos)---they are still Antiochian priests but on loan to the OCA and under the omophorion of the OCA Metropolitan. It is possible if  Deacon CHRIS Gain was such a case he could be apart of the Patriarchal staff serving in the Phillipines for the patriarchate since his  departure apparrently was before the 2008 item at issue.(I personally have never seen this but again I am not involved in the Patriarchal politics no a confidant of the Patriarch). Whether he was released or deposed by the Patriarch I do not know, I can find no reference to the man besides what has been brought up here.

It is of interest to me however that the two Patriarchates take a very divergent view of  allowing a western rite in their patriarchate. The Antiochians openly allow it and have for many years encouraged the prosyletizing of  entire  groups  to enter the Church with the utilization and correction of their liturgies to make the liturgy an "Orthodox" one.  The Patriarchate of Constantinople however has, up to this date, not seen the value in this and sees one of their main purposes as being the spread of Hellenic Culture and language with conversion being just a component of that or as one Old Greek priest once  told me "we expect  our converts to become Greek in all but name, they should embrace Hellenic traditions, customs, and practices when they become a Greek Orthodox. If possible they should learn the Greek Language so they understand better the worship services of the parish."

As we well know, from both puclic articles from the Greek Orthodox Church and the Russian Church, the Patriarchate of Constantinople does not share the same understanding of canons in which he claims primacy over areas that are also claimed by other patriarchates---we may be faced with this in that HIB Ignatios may see the Phillipines as belonging to him as the Patriarch of Antioch and the all East and not to Constantinople despite Constantinople being present since 1996 in Hong Kong, I sure HIB Ignatios would cite a much older claim to authority over "the East". In some of the Antiochian publications in English this appears to be the case if I am reading them correctly.

In the mean time, I do what I can do as I do here in the US, pray for the unity of the Church here in the United States and in the Philipines so that we may all be as one in the Lord. This is a battle for the patriarchs, I will be content topray so that the Holy Spirit will make the determination as I believe eventually He will do as he has always intervene in such issues within the Church.


Thomas
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« Reply #351 on: February 01, 2009, 12:12:55 AM »

Once again I am not a canonist.
Thomas,
You don't need to be a Canonist. What the Antiochian Archdiocese has done is not only uncanonical, it is illegal.
The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia was established in 1996. It is recognised under Hong Kong Law. According to that law "All baptised Orthodox Christians residing in Hong Kong and all the
countries of South East Asia shall constitute the membership of the Metropolitan Archdiocese. Together they comprise a complete ecclesiastical unit. " ( http://www.hklii.org/hk/legis/en/ord/1163/s4.html ).
What Archbishop Saliba has done is establish a group of "Baptised Orthodox Christians" in South East Asia who do not constitute the membership of the Metropolitan Archdiocese. So, what do you think this is going to do to the credibility of the Orthodox Church in Hong Kong?
You guys are so bent on your "Western Rites" and imposing them on people who don't even want them that you don't even see that you are dividing and discrediting the Church.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 12:13:12 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #352 on: February 01, 2009, 12:24:33 AM »

Once again I am not a canonist.
Thomas,
You don't need to be a Canonist. What the Antiochian Archdiocese has done is not only uncanonical, it is illegal.

Illegal.  I didn't know the Church became a legislature.

Quote
The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia was established in 1996. It is recognised under Hong Kong Law. According to that law "All baptised Orthodox Christians residing in Hong Kong and all the
countries of South East Asia shall constitute the membership of the Metropolitan Archdiocese. Together they comprise a complete ecclesiastical unit. " ( http://www.hklii.org/hk/legis/en/ord/1163/s4.html ).

LOL.   I know Britain thinks it had universal sovereignty, and could dole it out as it saw fit, but the sun has set on the British Empire.

Quote
What Archbishop Saliba has done is establish a group of "Baptised Orthodox Christians" in South East Asia who do not constitute the membership of the Metropolitan Archdiocese.

The Philippines aren't in Hong Kong.  Nor is the vast majority of South East Asia.

Quote
So, what do you think this is going to do to the credibility of the Orthodox Church in Hong Kong?

I didn't know that Hong Kong was on the edge of their seats over what happens in the Philippines.

Quote
You guys are so bent on your "Western Rites" and imposing them on people who don't even want them that you don't even see that you are dividing and discrediting the Church.
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« Reply #353 on: February 01, 2009, 12:36:42 AM »

Here is a copy of a Fax I have just sent to the Patriarchate of Constantinople and cc-d to the Patriarchate of Antioch:

Quote
His All Holiness Bartholomew
Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome, and Ecumenical Patriarch,

February 01, 2009



You’re All Holiness,

I am writing to you to raise my concerns regarding the recent actions of the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand.

Last Year, 2008, the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand changed its title to include The Philippines, and now, on it’s new official website (http://www.antiochianarch.org.au ), the Archdiocese titles itself “Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of  Australia New Zealand and The Philippines”.

To my knowledge, The Philippines have been under the jurisdiction of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia since 1996.

Under Hong Kong Law:

“All baptised Orthodox Christians residing in Hong Kong and all the countries of South East Asia shall constitute the membership of the Metropolitan Archdiocese. Together they comprise a complete ecclesiastical unit.”
(The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia Ordinance. Section 4, subsection 3)

My concern is that Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand, by taking under its omorphion The Philippines has created a situation whereby there are now baptised Orthodox Christians in the  Philippines who are not members of the Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and South East Asia, and thus brings discredit to the Orthodox Church in the eyes of Hong Kong, placing the Metropolitanate there in danger.

Your All Holiness, it is my firm belief that this irregularity must be corrected as soon as possible.

Kissing your right hand,
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 12:37:04 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #354 on: February 01, 2009, 01:56:19 AM »

Could it be possible that during the meeting of Autocephalous Orthodox leaders that Pat. Ignatius brought up the Phillipines issue with the EP and the EP OK'ed the addition of the Phillipines to the Metropolitan of Australia and New Zealand resulting in the EP's comments that the canonical nightmare needs to be rectified?

So, just as I can attend an EP or Antiochian Church in the USA, I can do the same for the Phillipines even though the same canonical nightmare exists in the latter as it does in the former?   Huh

Such a decision between two Patriarchs is not likely to be publicized on anyone's website; However, some official paperwork is bound to exist whether in Damascus or Australia?
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« Reply #355 on: February 01, 2009, 02:17:39 AM »

Could it be possible that during the meeting of Autocephalous Orthodox leaders that Pat. Ignatius brought up the Phillipines issue with the EP and the EP OK'ed the addition of the Phillipines to the Metropolitan of Australia and New Zealand resulting in the EP's comments that the canonical nightmare needs to be rectified?
Sol, read again.
The Statement of the EP came out in July 2008. The Antiochian Archdiocese changed it's title to include the Philippines in November 2008.
If you go to the official website of "The Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and The Philippines" you will find links to two videos of the Metropolitan there which were uploaded in November and, to the tune of some touchy-feely evangelical song, you will see the video's entitled: "Welcome Paul Saliba His Eminence Metropolitan Primate of Australia and New Zealand"...no mention of "The Philippines" in his title then.
Check the videos for yourself:
http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/NewsItem.aspx?i=56
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 02:21:10 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #356 on: February 01, 2009, 02:22:20 AM »

Sol, read again.
The Statement of the EP came out in July 2008. The Antiochian Archdiocese changed it's title to include the Philippines in Novemeber 2008.
If you go to the official website of "The Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Phillipines" you will find links to two videos of the Metropolitan there which were uploaded in November and, to the tune of some touchy-feely evangelical song, you will see the video's entitled: "Welcome Paul Saliba His Eminence Metropolitan Primate of Australia and New Zealand"...no mention of "the Philipines" in his title then.
Check the videos for yourself:
http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/NewsItem.aspx?i=56

Between July and November, specifically October 2008, Pat. Ignatius and Pat. Bartholomew met a number of times.  There has to be Canonical Blessing for the addition of the Phillipines.  Because you say differently doesn't make that an absolute statement.

Who is the real Hierarch based out of Australia if it's no longer Met. Paul Saliba?   Huh
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« Reply #357 on: February 01, 2009, 02:30:56 AM »

There has to be Canonical Blessing for the addition of the Phillipines. 
Oh please! What a load of nonsense! Why would there be a "Canonical Blessing" for the addition of the title three months after the Oecumenical Patriarchate clearly stated that The Philippines are the Jurisdiction of the OMHKSEA?

Because you say differently doesn't make that an absolute statement.
Yeah....that's right....I mean, basic reality has nothing to do with it..... Roll Eyes Your theory must be right. The Oecumenical Patriarchate declared one thing and then did an underhand deal with Antioch....Perhaps His All Holiness got a carton of cigarettes out of it..... Roll Eyes


Who is the real Hierarch based out of Australia if it's no longer Met. Paul Saliba?   Huh
What on Earth are you talking about?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 02:31:30 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #358 on: February 01, 2009, 02:52:46 AM »

Sigh, I just finished reading a whole bunch of articles on pokrov.org.  Satan is winning the battle of these uncanonical situations.  I'm going to bed.  God Bless You.
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« Reply #359 on: February 01, 2009, 03:11:24 AM »

Between July and November, specifically October 2008, Pat. Ignatius and Pat. Bartholomew met a number of timesThere has to be Canonical Blessing for the addition of the Phillipines

If you will read carefully the so-called "PRESBYTERAL REPORT" written by one Father  John D' Alton (Antiochian Orthodox Church, Australia) (please see excerpt below) then that seems to be the case SolEX01  and I totally agree with your observation. I would like to hear what ozgeorge has to say about this so-called "PRESBYTERAL REPORT":


The facts are that the negotiations between the EP and Met. Paul and Antioch have been long and far more complex than stated here. Secondly there is a very cordial working agreement, not animosity as suggested here at times. Thirdly, in no canonical sense have non_Orthodox been made "vicars", however, that term has been used out of respect for current evangelical leaders position.

Fourthly, while everyone is aware of the problem of the overlapping of jurisdictions (we have it here in Australia too), Antioch (and the EP) work pragmatically *now* despite this, while working to resolve this uncanonical situation in the *future*.

Fifthly, the services have been modified to make them Orthodox. Antioch has always had a broader range of services than some other jurisdictions. Really, assuming that a bishop would overlook this is a sad reflection on lay distrust of bishops.

People should not read bad motives, uncanonical intent nor unOrthodox actions into anything that has happened.


in Christ,
Fr. John D'Alton, Antiochian Orthodox, Australia, writing as a priest, not in any official capacity for the archdiocese.




The very fact that the present Greek Hierarch of OMHKSEA and the Greek Vicar in Manila has not issued any protest regarding the so called "illegal" and "uncanonical" insertion of the Philippines under the jurisdiction of the Antiochian Metropolitanate of Australia  is a clear sign that there is a canonical blessing for the addition of the Philippines by the EP.  Please ozgeorge explain to me what the letter of Fr. John d' Alton says.  Is he imagining things , saying rubbish and non sense words or is he just lying through his teeth?  I will be waiting for your response ozgeorge.  Please do not ignore my request ozgeorge. Thank you.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 03:22:28 AM by filipiniana » Logged

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