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Offline FrChris

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Conversions in Philipines
« on: March 26, 2008, 03:02:32 PM »
Any of our Philipine readers hear of this event?
----------------
Philippine denominations join the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Aust. & NZ

We would like to inform you that after long discussions with two denominations from the Philippines, one belong to the Catholic Patriarchate of the East and the other Evangelical, we reached an agreement in principles,
to accept them in our Antiochian Archdiocese.  The Archdiocese will take care of the education, training and ordination of all the thirty plus religious leaders and their followers.  It is a historic moments in the history of the Patriarchate of Antioch and the Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand

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« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:03:45 PM by FrChris »
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Re: Mass Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 03:07:50 PM »
Interesting... Where is the date on that announcement?  I'd love to know when it was posted.

It sounds like a wonderful development.  I hope the Spirit continues to guide the leaders of the Archdiocese, and uses them to teach and edify the new Orthodox Christians!
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 03:17:53 PM »
The announcement was posted on the 'Latest News' section of the Antiochian Archdiocesan website for Austyralia and New Zealand (which also includes the Philipines, I guess!) 3/20/2008.
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 04:48:22 PM »
The announcement was posted on the 'Latest News' section of the Antiochian Archdiocesan website for Austyralia and New Zealand (which also includes the Philipines, I guess!) 3/20/2008.
His jurisdiction is the whole Pacific Ocean. It includes Hawaii but not Alaska.
Joseph

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 05:32:50 PM »
Does His Eminence's jurisdiction also include parts of Mainland Asia, such as China, Vietnam, and parts west?

Just curious! I was only thinking that, if His Eminence starts to acquire multiple parishes in the Philipines, perhaps his 'title' should also be amended.
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 09:23:47 PM »
Does His Eminence's jurisdiction also include parts of Mainland Asia, such as China, Vietnam, and parts west?

Just curious! I was only thinking that, if His Eminence starts to acquire multiple parishes in the Philipines, perhaps his 'title' should also be amended.

Mainland Asia would belong to the Bishop of Babylon who modern day title is Bishop of Baghdad, Kuwait and Dependencies.
Joseph

Offline sohma_hatori

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 09:47:12 AM »
Whew!! Thats so nice to hear!!!  :D

Too bad most of them are probably in the Capital region or in Visayas (I live in Mindanao)..
I'll contact the priest here in Mindanao and ask him more about this..

Thanks be to God!!  :D
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Offline sohma_hatori

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 12:35:08 PM »
By the way, the "Evangelicals" refered in the news article, refer to the Evangelical group of Bishop Heins, a former Episcopalian Bishop in Manila..
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 06:24:56 PM »
Philippine denominations join the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Aust. & NZ

Well Glory be to God!  :)
That is wonderful news!  I know a young man who lives in a small town in the Philippines.  He is so eager for Orthodoxy.  He has asked me several times if Orthodoxy's missionary presence there will ever reach out from the capital city into the smaller towns and villages.  I will certainly let him know about this... it will be very encouraging.

Thanks for sharing!
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 06:28:17 PM by _Seraphim_ »
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2008, 11:34:55 AM »
By the way, the "Evangelicals" refered in the news article, refer to the Evangelical group of Bishop Heins, a former Episcopalian Bishop in Manila..

Sohma_hatori, the "Evangelical group" being referred to in the said Antiochian news article is the IEMELIF or the Iglesia Evangelica Methodista En Las Islas Filipinas (The Evangelical Methodist Church in the Philippine Islands) lead by BISHOP JEPTAH AGUAS ANICETO.  Please see Delegates from the Philippines (January 2008 Archdiocesan News Article from the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia & New Zealand). 

The official report did not mention anything about a certain "Bishop Heins". Are you referring to Archbishop Hines of the ICCEC or the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church? As far as I know, Archbishop Hines is married and his Evangelical group in Manila, the capital city of the Philippines, has not approached Metropolitan Archbishop Paul yet. Two former priests of the ICCEC along with their flock from the Southern Luzon province of Sorsogon has affiliated with the Philippine Orthodox Church under the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong and South East Asia (EP) in 2006.


FrCris, Metropolitan Archbishop Paul Saliba is the PRIMATE of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines (Please see below).




« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 09:35:40 PM by filipiniana »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 01:57:54 PM »
Welcome to the forum, filipiniana!

Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 10:02:05 PM »
Welcome to the forum, filipiniana!

Thank you Mr. Salpy. I'm glad to be here.
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2008, 12:44:55 AM »
Thank you for the information filipiniana, and welcome!
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2008, 02:01:44 AM »
Sohma_hatori, the "Evangelical group" being referred to in the said Antiochian news article is the IEMELIF or the Iglesia Evangelica Methodista En Las Islas Filipinas (The Evangelical Methodist Church in the Philippine Islands) lead by BISHOP JEPTAH AGUAS ANICETO.  Please see Delegates from the Philippines (January 2008 Archdiocesan News Article from the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia & New Zealand). 

Hello Filipiniana!! :D

I got the info from Rev. Fr. Kleopas Daclan, the Greek Orthodox Priest in the mission there in Koronadal City, South Cotabato..
Thanks very much the info!!
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 04:47:47 AM »
Thank you for the information filipiniana, and welcome!



Thank you Mr. Ozgeorge.


Hello Filipiniana!! :D

I got the info from Rev. Fr. Kleopas Daclan, the Greek Orthodox Priest in the mission there in Koronadal City, South Cotabato..
Thanks very much the info!!


Sorry Mr. Sohma_hatori. The information you got from the  Filipino Greek Orthodox priest in South Cotabato appears to be incorrect.

You can find the email address of Bishop Jeptah Aniceto at the Harvard Divinity School Summer Institute (click). I suggest that you drop him an email for more accurate and reliable information on the Antiochian Orthodox Mission in the Philippines. If I'm not mistaken he is presently in Davao.







« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 04:52:52 AM by filipiniana »
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2008, 05:10:22 AM »
Let me share you what I got from the Orthodox Wikipedia:


"The Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand is set to accept two denominations in the Philippines into the Archdiocese, including over 30 religious leaders and 35 churches with 6000 adherents. This has been heralded as a "historic moment in the history of the Patriarchate of Antioch and the Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand". There is also some evidence to suggest that Metr. Abp Paul is now the Primate for the Philippines."

Please see RECENT EVENTS from the Orthodox Wikipedia under the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand.






Thank you for the information filipiniana, and welcome!

« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 05:12:47 AM by filipiniana »
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Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2008, 09:16:26 PM »
I find this development hard to accept, given the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate has already established several parishes in the Philippines.  There is no need for Antioch to accept evangelical and heretical groups to "join" Holy Orthodoxy and complicate the situation, which is generally stable.

http://www.ocp.uni.cc/

The Annunciation of the Theotokos Orthodox Cathedral is a parish of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and All–Southeast Asia under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. It is currently the only full Orthodox parish in Metro Manila. Some independent protestant groups have identified themselves "orthodox" although they are not part of our Orthodox faith community. We are the only canonical Orthodox Church in the Philippines.










Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2008, 12:35:21 AM »

I find this development hard to accept, given the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate has already established several parishes in the Philippines.  There is no need for Antioch to accept evangelical and heretical groups to "join" Holy Orthodoxy and complicate the situation, which is generally stable.

http://www.ocp.uni.cc/

The Annunciation of the Theotokos Orthodox Cathedral is a parish of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and All–Southeast Asia under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. It is currently the only full Orthodox parish in Metro Manila. Some independent protestant groups have identified themselves "orthodox" although they are not part of our Orthodox faith community. We are the only canonical Orthodox Church in the Philippines.




Christ cursing the Fig tree. The barren fig tree looked good but there was no fruit on it.

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only,
and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away."
(Matthew 21:19)




"The withering of the fig tree was a miracle of special symbolism, since the tree had leaves, but no fruit. It is symbolic of the many people who claim ethical and religious identity, but who in reality have empty lives that yield no fruit."
-Holy Week in the Eastern Orthodox Church


"The fig tree means the synagogue of the Jews, which has only leaves, that is, the visible letter of the law, but not the fruit of the Spirit. But also every man who gives himself over to the sweetness of the present life is likened to a fig tree, who has no spiritual fruit to give to Jesus who is hungry for such fruit, but only leaves, that is, temporal appearances which fall away and are gone. This man, then, hears himself cursed. For Christ says, Go, ye accursed, into the fire. But he is also dried up; for as he roasts in the flame, his tongue is parched and withered like that of the rich man of the parable, who in his life had ignored Lazarus."
-Blessed Theophylact, Commentary on Matthew


The apparently healthy fig tree without fruit symbolizes an apparently healthy Orthodox Christian life that does not produce actions and behaviors that God wants from us. A  person can appear to have deep faith that carries momentous burdens and appear to talk with God fervently in prayer, but at the same time, it is all a show because it does not demonstrate the love of Christ in daily actions.


« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 12:36:44 AM by filipiniana »
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2008, 01:11:29 AM »
Welcome to the forum, filipiniana!  I hope your time here is fun and educational and I look forward to learning more about your country.  :)
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2008, 01:18:14 AM »
I find this development hard to accept, given the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate has already established several parishes in the Philippines. 

To be honest I have always had a real problem with Constantinople having any parishes in Asia since it is very clear that the Patriarch of Antioch has jurisdiction over all the east.
Joseph

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2008, 01:24:15 AM »
Dear Filipiniana,

Welcome to this site. Did the evangelicals approach the EP first? Why did they have to go to the Antiochians to become Orthodox?

thank you, Tamara
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 01:26:40 AM by Tamara »

Offline Elisha

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2008, 01:58:22 AM »
Dear Filipiniana,

Welcome to this site. Did the evangelicals approach the EP first? Why did they have to go to the Antiochians to become Orthodox?

thank you, Tamara


Followup though (to you) - did they really "have" to?  Why couldn't they have gone to Moscow/Alexandria/other random Orthodox see?  The EOC didn't "have" to go to Antioch 20 years ago - Antioch was just the only See willing to accept the EOC leaders on THEIR terms.  Why should these evangelical leaders who were calling themselves "bishops" be made insta-archpriests?  I'm wondering how this Phillipino situation will work out - time can only tell.

Btw, since Met. NIKITAS is in Berekley, CA now, what bishop has taken his place in Hong Kong?  I always felt the situation a bit odd, but I guess I'm betting off not knowing the "why".

Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2008, 06:30:06 AM »
Why should these evangelical leaders who were calling themselves "bishops" be made insta-archpriests

Mr. Elisha,

The Official Website of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand did not mention anything about  the "bishops" being  "made insta-archpriests" after they were received into the Antiochian Church. Kindly give us your references and your sources please.  Have you spoken with any of the former members of  IEMELIF  if they still call their leaders "Bishops"  or if they call them now as  "Archpriests"?  If not, so where did you get all these?  Just asking.   Thank you.

 


« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 06:30:55 AM by filipiniana »
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2008, 06:37:50 AM »
Dear Filipiniana,

Welcome to this site. Did the evangelicals approach the EP first? Why did they have to go to the Antiochians to become Orthodox?

thank you, Tamara


Hi Tamara,
I wish I can answer your question but I really can not.  Sorry, I have not  spoken with any of the Filipino leaders nor any members of the Antiochian Church in the Philippines yet.  I'll keep you posted.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 06:38:09 AM by filipiniana »
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2008, 06:43:30 AM »
Welcome to the forum, filipiniana!  I hope your time here is fun and educational and I look forward to learning more about your country.  :)

Thank you Gabrielthecelt.  I'm looking forward that the new Filipino Orthodox converts will participate in the discussions in the near future and share their story how God lead them to His true Church for the edification of all.
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Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2008, 06:53:27 AM »
Does His Eminence's jurisdiction also include parts of Mainland Asia, such as China, Vietnam, and parts west?

Just curious! I was only thinking that, if His Eminence starts to acquire multiple parishes in the Philipines, perhaps his 'title' should also be amended.

Of course not.  Proof of this is that there has NEVER been an Antiochian parish in the Philippines.

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2008, 07:21:12 AM »

Christ cursing the Fig tree. The barren fig tree looked good but there was no fruit on it.

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only,
and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away."
(Matthew 21:19)




"The withering of the fig tree was a miracle of special symbolism, since the tree had leaves, but no fruit. It is symbolic of the many people who claim ethical and religious identity, but who in reality have empty lives that yield no fruit."
-Holy Week in the Eastern Orthodox Church


"The fig tree means the synagogue of the Jews, which has only leaves, that is, the visible letter of the law, but not the fruit of the Spirit. But also every man who gives himself over to the sweetness of the present life is likened to a fig tree, who has no spiritual fruit to give to Jesus who is hungry for such fruit, but only leaves, that is, temporal appearances which fall away and are gone. This man, then, hears himself cursed. For Christ says, Go, ye accursed, into the fire. But he is also dried up; for as he roasts in the flame, his tongue is parched and withered like that of the rich man of the parable, who in his life had ignored Lazarus."
-Blessed Theophylact, Commentary on Matthew

The apparently healthy fig tree without fruit symbolizes an apparently healthy Orthodox Christian life that does not produce actions and behaviors that God wants from us. A  person can appear to have deep faith that carries momentous burdens and appear to talk with God fervently in prayer, but at the same time, it is all a show because it does not demonstrate the love of Christ in daily actions.

Your personal interpretation of Scripture and your claim that Antioch has jurisdiction over the Philippines expose the weakness of your position.  They are self defeating.  Let me show you why.

First, by comparing Constantinople to the fig tree, you are by implication claiming that Antioch is the Lord Jesus Christ who by His divinity knows whether a tree is profitable of not.  I say that this personal interpretation of yours is hogwash.  In truth, The Lord Jesus is the only judge, Antioch is not the Son of God, and neither is the fig tree Constantinople.

Second, by claiming that Antioch has jurisdiction over the Philippines (a position which I reject) and that there is no good fruit in the Philippines (another position I reject), you are logically pointing out that after almost 2,000 years of Antioch's grip in the entire Pacific, Antioch has not produced a single fruit in the Philippines. 

My question now is, how come Antioch never bothered to plant something in the Philippines after two thousand years?  Where is the fruit of Antioch? 

More importantly, do you honestly believe that the hundreds of evangelicals Antioch is now accomodating are better fruits than the hundreds or perhaps thousands of baptized Orthodox Christians in the Philippines who belong to the EP?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 07:45:58 AM by Theognosis »

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2008, 07:34:28 AM »
Btw, since Met. NIKITAS is in Berekley, CA now,

How is he?  Do you know him personally?

Quote
what bishop has taken his place in Hong Kong?

His Eminence Metropolitan Nektarios is the new bishop.

http://www.imsamou.gr/newsDetails.php?id=131


Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »
it is very clear that the Patriarch of Antioch has jurisdiction over all the east.

So what is Antioch doing in the West?

:-\

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2008, 10:02:59 AM »
So what is Antioch doing in the West?

:-\


And his question can be applied to the MP in China (or what's left of that church).
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2008, 10:12:19 AM »
Jurisdiction jurisdiction jurisdiction.

Maybe the Antiochian Church met some need that the EP couldn't in this case.

Maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye.

Maybe the Antiochians already talked to the EP and they made a deal.

Do we really know all the circumstances?
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2008, 10:13:10 AM »
I find this development hard to accept, given the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate has already established several parishes in the Philippines.  There is no need for Antioch to accept evangelical and heretical groups to "join" Holy Orthodoxy and complicate the situation, which is generally stable.



So...let me get this straight...you think they should have been rejected? Or what?
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2008, 10:17:56 AM »
Your personal interpretation of Scripture and your claim that Antioch has jurisdiction over the Philippines expose the weakness of your position.  They are self defeating.  Let me show you why.

First, by comparing Constantinople to the fig tree, you are by implication claiming that Antioch is the Lord Jesus Christ who by His divinity knows whether a tree is profitable of not.  I say that this personal interpretation of yours is hogwash.  In truth, The Lord Jesus is the only judge, Antioch is not the Son of God, and neither is the fig tree Constantinople.

Second, by claiming that Antioch has jurisdiction over the Philippines (a position which I reject) and that there is no good fruit in the Philippines (another position I reject), you are logically pointing out that after almost 2,000 years of Antioch's grip in the entire Pacific, Antioch has not produced a single fruit in the Philippines. 

My question now is, how come Antioch never bothered to plant something in the Philippines after two thousand years?  Where is the fruit of Antioch? 

More importantly, do you honestly believe that the hundreds of evangelicals Antioch is now accomodating are better fruits than the hundreds or perhaps thousands of baptized Orthodox Christians in the Philippines who belong to the EP?



Brother, please don't put words in to my mouth. I did not "compare" Constantinople to the fig tree and nowhere in my post will you read that I did so.  Please try to re-read my previous post again so you will understand what I'm really trying to say.  Constantinople is not the Filipino Orthodox and the Filipino Orthodox is not Constantinople.  Your deep prejudice is the root cause of your hatred and confusion.  Have you  ever ask the present Vicar in your country or the Metropolitan in Hong Kong what is the real position of Constantinople with regards to the newly established Antiochian presence in your country? Please ask your Vicar  and Metropolitan to tell you honestly what is really happening there.  You might be in for a big surprise to learn that your position is VERY MUCH CONTRARY to theirs so be prepare for the final revelation and please be very careful with what you write or say  regarding the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East and your Antiochian Orthodox Christian brethren from now on.

P.S. as far as the available statistics are concerned there are less than seven hundred Filipino Orthodox Christians in the Philippines under  Constantinople.  The canonical Orthodox Church under Constantinople was established in the Philippines way back in 1992.  I have attended the Divine Liturgy at the Annunciation Parish in Manila and all I saw were less than 30 people inside the church and most of the time its almost empty even on Major Feast Days.  So perhaps now you understand what the story of the beautiful but barren Fig Tree is trying to convey. Lastly, from where did you get your "hundreds and perhaps thousands of baptized Orthodox Christians in the Philippines" statistics?  Please cite your sources and references

God enlighten and bless you my Filipino brothers in Orthodoxy.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 11:06:35 AM by filipiniana »
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2008, 11:18:27 AM »
Mr. Elisha,

The Official Website of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand did not mention anything about  the "bishops" being  "made insta-archpriests" after they were received into the Antiochian Church. Kindly give us your references and your sources please.  Have you spoken with any of the former members of  IEMELIF  if they still call their leaders "Bishops"  or if they call them now as  "Archpriests"?  If not, so where did you get all these?  Just asking.   Thank you.

Filipiniana,

I was referring to two things:  both this group and the Evangelical Orthodox Church (aka "EOC") of which I grew up in that came into Orthodoxy under the Antiochian 20 years ago.

Offline Elisha

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2008, 11:19:15 AM »
How is he?  Do you know him personally?

His Eminence Metropolitan Nektarios is the new bishop.

http://www.imsamou.gr/newsDetails.php?id=131


Thanks.  No, I have not been able to meet him yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time since I'm in NorCal too.

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2008, 01:41:10 PM »
Quote
Brother, please don't put words in to my mouth. I did not "compare" Constantinople to the fig tree and nowhere in my post will you read that I did so.  Please try to re-read my previous post again so you will understand what I'm really trying to say.

Then, with all honesty, tell me exactly what you meant by bringing out the parable of the fig tree, which was in response to my first post on this thread.

Quote
Constantinople is not the Filipino Orthodox and the Filipino Orthodox is not Constantinople.

Same applies to Antioch.  You are not making any sense, really.  The truth of the matter is that the Filipino Orthodox exists, and it is under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Quote
Your deep prejudice is the root cause of your hatred and confusion.
 

You are the one sowing hatred by undermining the efforts of the EP as well as discrediting the achievements of the hundreds of Filipinos who have converted to Orthodoxy. 

Quote
P.S. as far as the available statistics are concerned there are less than seven hundred Filipino Orthodox Christians in the Philippines under  Constantinople.  The canonical Orthodox Church under Constantinople was established in the Philippines way back in 1992.  I have attended the Divine Liturgy at the Annunciation Parish in Manila and all I saw were less than 30 people inside the church and most of the time its almost empty even on Major Feast Days.

Again, you are judging the parish as if you were Jesus Christ.  Besides, faith is measured in QUALITY, not quantity. 

Quote
So perhaps now you understand what the story of the beautiful but barren Fig Tree is trying to convey.

Again, you are interpreting the parable out of its proper context.  A true Orthodox wouldn't do such a thing.  You are speaking like a Protestant who takes his/her own interpretation of Scripture as gospel truth.

By the way, have you by chance been baptised/chrismated already?

Quote
Lastly, from where did you get your "hundreds and perhaps thousands of baptized Orthodox Christians in the Philippines" statistics?  Please cite your sources and references

You have already stated that there are less than seven hundred Filipino Orthodox Christians, so there is no need for me to prove my statement.  If it is of consolation to you, it is pretty obvious that I should have used "or" rather than "and", i.e. "hundreds OR perhaps thousands."
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 02:11:48 PM by Theognosis »

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2008, 01:47:53 PM »
Jurisdiction jurisdiction jurisdiction.

Maybe the Antiochian Church met some need that the EP couldn't in this case.

Maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye.

Maybe the Antiochians already talked to the EP and they made a deal.

Do we really know all the circumstances?

You make very good points.  Perhaps the full information hasn't trickled down to the readers and the laymen.

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2008, 01:53:28 PM »
So...let me get this straight...you think they should have been rejected? Or what?

It would be ideal that the new members become part of the growing community that just so happens to be under the jurisdiction of the EP.  The situation in America where multiple jurisdictions exist should not be replicated in the Philippines.

Offline Theognosis

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2008, 02:07:25 PM »
Quote from: filipiniana
I have attended the Divine Liturgy at the Annunciation Parish in Manila and all I saw were less than 30 people inside the church and most of the time its almost empty even on Major Feast Days.

Well that's the genuine Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, not the western hybrid rite that the evangelicals would want to celebrite once they become Orthodox.

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2008, 02:10:07 PM »
It would be ideal that the new members become part of the growing community that just so happens to be under the jurisdiction of the EP.  The situation in America where multiple jurisdictions exist should not be replicated in the Philippines.


I agree on that point.
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2008, 02:10:55 PM »
Well that's the genuine Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, not the western hybrid rite that the evangelicals would want to celebrite once they become Orthodox.


Is that what they are saying they want to do? I would be against that.
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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2008, 04:18:16 PM »
Well that's the genuine Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, not the western hybrid rite that the evangelicals would want to celebrite once they become Orthodox.


Agapitos Theognosis,

I grew up in an ethnic Antiochian parish in the United States. But I now attend an Antiochian parish that was started by evangelicals. The Divine Liturgy is EXACTLY the same in the two parishes except one uses Arabic and the other uses English. I highly doubt Metropolitan Paul Saliba (who is Met. Philip's cousin), would allow a Divine Liturgy that is different.

Kalo Sarakosti, Tamara

ps. Before Met. Paul was made a bishop, he was the parish priest of St. George in Washington DC, the parish my godparents attend. Both of my godparents loved Met. Paul because he was very pastoral and very Orthodox in his teachings. My godparents are of Syrian heritage.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 08:30:12 PM by Tamara »

Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2008, 06:27:29 PM »
Agapito Theognosis,

I grew up in an ethnic Antiochian parish in the United States. But I now attend an Antiochian parish that was started by evangelicals. The Divine Liturgy is EXACTLY the same in the two parishes except one uses Arabic and the other uses English. I highly doubt Metropolitan Paul Saliba (who is Met. Philip's cousin), would allow a Divine Liturgy that is different.



Exactly one of the the reasons why the former uncanonical Antiochian mission established  by a certain Australian deacon posing as an Antiochian Abbot in the Philippines was made defunct.   Our brother Theognosis should really consult and talk with his Vicar and Metropolitan.


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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2008, 06:31:53 PM »
You make very good points.  Perhaps the full information hasn't trickled down to the readers and the laymen.


Yes, that's exactly the reason why I advice you to be very careful with what you say or  write regarding the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East and your Antiochian Orthodox brethren in your country. You don't know what's really going on.  But you will know sooner or later so be prepared.
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Offline filipiniana

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Re: Conversions in Philipines
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2008, 07:21:50 PM »
You make very good points.  Perhaps the full information hasn't trickled down to the readers and the laymen.




Agapitos Theognosis,
Please ask your Vicar and Metropolitan for more details.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 07:23:29 PM by filipiniana »
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