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Author Topic: Conversions in Philipines  (Read 91156 times) Average Rating: 5
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ialmisry
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« Reply #135 on: June 07, 2008, 07:08:29 AM »

PS ...I do hope the leaders from the Antiochian side will not play deaf and dumb to these concerns.

Why do you think they would?
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« Reply #136 on: June 07, 2008, 10:06:00 AM »

Why do you think they would?

If you have any details regarding the "AGREEMENT" between your Patriarch in Antioch and our Patriarch in Constanstinople regarding the Philippines please do share it with us. Members of the Orthodox Church under the EP (including me) have only the slightest idea about it (thanks to Fr. John-D Alton, otherwise we would'nt have known that such an "AGREEMENT" exists!). That's all. Thank you.
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« Reply #137 on: June 07, 2008, 10:14:41 AM »

oops I push the wrong button... laugh
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« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2008, 08:25:18 AM »

I have attended the Divine Liturgy at the Annunciation Parish in Manila and all I saw were less than 30 people inside the church and most of the time its almost empty even on Major Feast Days.

Please do not post half-truths here; Divine Liturgy on Sundays is always well-attended. One should also see that the reason why attendance on some major feast days isn't good is because there is only  one Orthodox church and one chapel serving a city of 10 million people, and the Orthodox faithful are scattered throughout the city as well as some outlying provinces. The next Orthodox church would already be outside Metro Manila, in the province of Laguna.

I will not comment on the Antiochian presence here just yet, as we have yet to see how the two Patriarchates will handle the situation. We pray that the solution they will reach will be of benefit for Orthodoxy here in the Philippines for the continued growth of the Faith.

Quote
Are you for real Mr. John?  I don't know anyone from the Annunciation Sucat Parish  by the name of John who resides at Caloocan City. Please note you mispelled Caloocan to Kalookan. Everyone from Caloocan City knows that their City is spelled Caloocan not Kalookan.

Both spellings are actually correct; Caloocan is used in the modified Filipino alphabet, and Kalookan is used when pertaining to how the Filipino alphabet is originally done (remember that the original Filipino alphabet never had the letter "c"; thus it would go as a, b, k, d...)
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« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2008, 12:46:32 PM »

Please do not post half-truths here; Divine Liturgy on Sundays is always well-attended....


That's good news! Where were you from February 1994 to April 2008? (click). Anyway, thank you very much for the updates and welcome to the Orthodox Church! Wink

Both spellings are actually correct; Caloocan is used in the modified Filipino alphabet, and Kalookan is used when pertaining to how the Filipino alphabet is originally done (remember that the original Filipino alphabet never had the letter "c"; thus it would go as a, b, k, d...)

I know that.  You did not grew up nor study in Caloocan. Since our elementary school days at M.C.U Caloocan our teachers and professors teaches and commands us to write the name of our city  in C and not in K. Please do a reality check by asking students from the two universities in Caloocan how they spell their city. Kindly cease from speaking  half truths here okay?
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« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2008, 01:19:09 PM »

I know that.  You did not grew up nor study in Caloocan. Since our elementary school days at M.C.U Caloocan our teachers and professors teaches and commands us to write the name of our city  in C and not in K. Please do a reality check by asking students from the two universities in Caloocan how they spell their city. Kindly cease from speaking  half truths here okay?

Well, this is off topic, but let's just say that although your teachers taught you that, it still cannot be denied that it can be spelled either way, and that either spelling is acceptable. Nothing half true about that.
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« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2008, 08:52:05 PM »

Well, this is off topic, but let's just say that although your teachers taught you that, it still cannot be denied that it can be spelled either way, and that either spelling is acceptable. Nothing half true about that.

I agree. have you done the "reality check" already? The fact remains; students and residents of Calooocan spell it with a "C" and not with a "K". The "half truth" refers to these lines: " Divine Liturgy on Sundays is ALWAYS well-attended". How can you say "ALWAYS"? Where were you from February 1994 to April 2008? (click).  The fact is you've just been around very recently. Well, that's off topic already. Now you understand my point? Again, thank you for the updates on church attendance at the ATOC in Paranaque and welcome to the Orthodox Church!
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« Reply #142 on: June 09, 2008, 03:22:16 AM »

How can you say "ALWAYS"? Where were you from February 1994 to April 2008? (click).

I attended Divine Liturgy for 4 Sundays in 2005. They were all well-attended. I have also attended twice in 2006 and they were well-attended as well. I regularly went to Divine Liturgy from August 2007 to the present, and almost often Sunday Divine Liturgy is well-attended. I wonder then where you got the notion that there are, as you say, only 30 or so people attending. It does not do us any good if we are going to bicker this way. Whether Antiochian, Russian, Constantinople, etc. what we must strive to do is to build up Orthodoxy here, not tear each other down. So I do not see your point in mentioning that; is it to discredit the work of Constantinople here? This is detrimental for Orthodoxy here. I would like to see cooperation among Orthodox here in the Philippines rather than show who came here first, or who has the right to be here. Such thoughts will not help the Church. If we are to show that the true Church can be found in Orthodoxy, then the first thing we should do is help one another.

As for the K vs C thing, I actually prefer it spelled as Caloocan. That being said, either spelling would still be correct. Blame that on whoever made the proposal in the first place.
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« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2008, 04:08:30 AM »

I attended Divine Liturgy for 4 Sundays in 2005. They were all well-attended. I have also attended twice in 2006 and they were well-attended as well. I regularly went to Divine Liturgy from August 2007 to the present, and almost often Sunday Divine Liturgy is well-attended. I wonder then where you got the notion that there are, as you say, only 30 or so people attending.

Four Sundays in 2005, two Sundays in 2006  only! So that's the reason why you did not see the only 30 or so people attending the Sunday Liturgy  and the almost empty church during major feast days at the ATOC. So how can you say "ALWAYS WELL ATTENDED" when you yourself were not always present?  Admit it you made a mistake and you are a newbie in the ATOC, hence,  you were not able to see everything. Your statement is full of contradiction and flaws so how will you convice me and our intelligent readers here? Anyway, this is off topic and please I won't take part with the bickering here anymore.


Please do not post half-truths here; Divine Liturgy on Sundays is always well-attended.
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« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2008, 04:14:31 AM »

...
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« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2008, 04:21:56 AM »

Any updates on the AGREEMENT between Antioch and Constantinople regarding the pastoral administration of the Philippines?   The Antiochians will not be in the Philippines in the first place without the blessing of His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople.  I do hope the brethren in the ATOC will realize and accept that fact.



P.S. ATOC means the Annunciation of the Theotokos Orthodox Church in Paranaque, Metro Manila  Smiley
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« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2008, 02:58:47 PM »

Four Sundays in 2005, two Sundays in 2006  only! So that's the reason why you did not see the only 30 or so people attending the Sunday Liturgy  and the almost empty church during major feast days at the ATOC.

I think it's fair enough to say that for 4 consecutive Sundays in 2005, the Liturgy was well-attended and that would be more than enough reason that there's more than 30 people attending it. Ditto for 2006. Of course, you already know about 2007 since I have been regularly been there since then. This is only logical, since if attendance is not regular then at least one Sunday I would've seen something like 30 or even less, so there's no mistake about it as you would like people here to believe. I would like to ask you, what is your agenda for saying such things in the first place? As Orthodox, you should be helping in building up the Church here, not working to tear it down. And as I can see in your profile, you claim to be part of the Ecumenical Patriarchate as well. Do you want people here to believe that your work here is to tear down the very Church you claim to be part of?
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« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2008, 05:50:41 AM »

Hello Filipiniana!! Cheesy

I got the info from Rev. Fr. Kleopas Daclan, the Greek Orthodox Priest in the mission there in Koronadal City, South Cotabato..
Thanks very much the info!!
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« Reply #148 on: June 12, 2008, 08:42:29 AM »

Four Sundays in 2005, two Sundays in 2006  only! So that's the reason why you did not see the only 30 or so people attending the Sunday Liturgy  and the almost empty church during major feast days at the ATOC. So how can you say "ALWAYS WELL ATTENDED" when you yourself were not always present?  Admit it you made a mistake and you are a newbie in the ATOC, hence,  you were not able to see everything. Your statement is full of contradiction and flaws so how will you convice me and our intelligent readers here? Anyway, this is off topic and please I won't take part with the bickering here anymore.



One can only speak from the time that one has been in the Church. From his prospectus, the Church was well attended especially following his admission to the Church as a member. From his view point he was telling the truth, from your view point that held a longer view it was not. We are called by God to be brothers and sisters in Christ and so my prayer is that the Most Holy Triune God will bless the Holy Orthodox Church in the Philipines and allow it to grow in Charity and love of Christ.

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« Reply #149 on: June 14, 2008, 10:48:28 AM »

As Orthodox, you should be helping in building up the Church here, not working to tear it down..... Do you want people here to believe that your work here is to tear down the very Church you claim to be part of?



Look who's talking? Time to look at yourself in the mirror and do a reality check again (please note the underlined words):




So what happens now to the 32 Antiochian Orthodox Missions and Parishes in the Philippines the majority of whom were former members of independent Protestant groups?

So who is "tearing down" the Church? Let the words in the image above speaks for itself. The image is from the website of the Ecumenical Patriarchate/Affiliate in the Philippines as it appears today [accessed on June 14, 2008].  This website is a project of the brothers in the ATOC's  Diakonia.

Now let me ask you and your brothers in the ATOC's Diakonia just what is your agenda for saying such things in the first place?

You owe your canonical Antiochian Orthodox brethren an apology.

May God have mercy upon you and pardon you.



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« Reply #150 on: June 15, 2008, 12:42:40 AM »

Look who's talking? Time to look at yourself in the mirror and do a reality check again (please note the underlined words):

Please note that I did not make that site; if you have any reactions regarding it, then it is best to contact the webmaster or the church office itself. That is the most prudent thing to do.

Quote
So what happens now to the 32 Antiochian Orthodox Missions and Parishes in the Philippines the majority of whom were former members of independent Protestant groups?

I would not know, as again these matters are best handled by the proper authorities within the Church, which would go without saying our Heirarchs and those they have authorized to look into the matter. What we can do is to pray for a good resolution which will help the Church to grow, and as members of the Church, our task is to build it up.

Quote
Now let me ask you and your brothers in the ATOC's Diakonia just what is your agenda for saying such things in the first place?

I would think that the purpose of what is said in that site is to show that we have a representation here in the Philippines of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and that any group that claims to be Orthodox are not within its jurisdiction nor officially represent any other jurisdiction for that matter. That being said, it does not make mention nor antagonize in any way our Antiochian brethren; that is not its purpose. It should be stressed that there are non-canonical groups who claim to be Orthodox; this is known for a long time. It is not against other jurisdictions then who are canonical, but on those who use the term Orthodox loosely.

Again, this case is best handled by those duly authorized to look into the matter, and we must let them do what they are supposed to do. Bickering over this will not help the issue, and might only escalate it. As I have again said, we must work to build the Church up, not tear it down. Unity within Orthodoxy will not be helped with such bickerings.
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« Reply #151 on: June 15, 2008, 03:16:14 AM »



"..it does not make mention nor antagonize in any way our Antiochian brethren; It is not against other jurisdictions then
who are canonical
,  but on those who use the term Orthodox loosely."
-Milliardo


Its very obvious that our friend here has a distorted and perverted way of understanding things so there's no use arguing nor discussing with such person/ persons. Anyway, thank you for you have given me additional reasons why I should not to return back to the ATOC parish.  I'm glad and and I'm very thankful to God that the Antiochian Orthodox Church is already in the Philippines (and now in my home town: The Protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary Parish in Caloocan City!), because now  I can find my true home. This will be my last post in this thread. For the latest updates regarding the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the Philippines please visit the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines.
.





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« Reply #152 on: June 15, 2008, 03:55:04 AM »

...
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« Reply #153 on: June 15, 2008, 07:30:04 AM »


Its very obvious that our friend here has a distorted and perverted way of understanding things so there's no use arguing nor discussing with such person/ persons. Anyway, thank you for you have given me additional reasons why I should not to return back to the ATOC parish.

As far as I know the point there is to make clear that the only jurisdiction presently that's officially represented here in the Philippines is that of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. If there is any other, then that would still be up in the air since that should be discussed between the Heirarchs of those jurisdictions involved. Is that in any way meant to antagonize other jurisdictions? Not in any way. I do find it disturbing though that there seems to be a very Protestant thought in your posts, that there's an us-vs-them thinking present, which is inimical to Orthodoxy as this is not how the Orthodox Church works nor thinks. We as a Church should work as one, regardless of what jurisdiction we belong to. However, such thinking that you espouse is troubling indeed, and should not be how an Orthodox thinks.

Quote
I'm glad and and I'm very thankful to God that the Antiochian Orthodox Church is already in the Philippines (and now in my home town: The Protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary Parish in Caloocan City!), because now  I can find my true home.

That is good that you have indeed found a home in Orthodoxy. As stated, it matters little which jurisdiction you would like to align yourself to; what is needed is that one works for the good of Orthodoxy as a whole. May we find our churches work side by side in building up Orthodoxy, and spread the Faith here. That should be our goal and our thought, not to have one jurisdiction pitted against the other. We accomplish little if we argue which is better; as I have stated, we only lose in the end when we do that. So from one church to the other, may there be many years to you and your endeavors.
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« Reply #154 on: June 15, 2008, 10:44:55 PM »

The troubling fact is that both jurisdictions are IGNORING each other presence here!! Its as if there was never an "agreement" between them! Im already confused as it is, as I am under the guidance of both an EP and Antiochian priest...
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« Reply #155 on: August 11, 2008, 08:28:16 AM »

Maybe this is a language issue so let me try and figure out what you are saying...

Are you calling this person the "vicar" because he is the leader of this group wishing to come into the Church?

or

Is Met. Paul calling this person the Vicar in his correspondence with you?

or

Is someone else calling this person the "vicar" and you are using their terminology? (If this is the case please provide your source then)

or

Something else that I didn't think of and if this is the case can you please explain.

http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/manila.aspx#ncr001
http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/davao.aspx
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« Reply #156 on: August 11, 2008, 09:48:43 AM »

Here's another update:



What's the use of the TRUTH when it is laced with lies? Figures (did they say 6000?), numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect to draw funds. I heard His Eminence Paul came over to the Philippines but I doubt if he was able to see for himself if those churches and 6,000 people actually exist. I won't be here and talking empty if I don't know anything about this. I personally do know something but it won't be good to discuss this right on here. As much as I believe the church nor its leaders shouldn't be judgmental of anyone's motives and intentions in serving God, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve Him.
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« Reply #157 on: August 11, 2008, 10:03:48 AM »

I would suggest that making a post saying you know the truth but aren't going to discuss it on here is worse than just saying what you know. It's going to make people wonder more.

We've seen people from both sides coming on here arguing this. Something seems to be going on. I hope that many people are embracing Orthodoxy in the Phillipines. But if there is anything going on that is bad then there needs to be some documented proof: photos; video interviews; letters.
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« Reply #158 on: August 11, 2008, 08:09:06 PM »

I would suggest that making a post saying you know the truth but aren't going to discuss it on here is worse than just saying what you know. It's going to make people wonder more.

We've seen people from both sides coming on here arguing this. Something seems to be going on. I hope that many people are embracing Orthodoxy in the Philippines. But if there is anything going on that is bad then there needs to be some documented proof: photos; video interviews; letters.
I am weighing the options of bringing the details on here or not. I have the knowledge and I have the evidences. Right now, I am trying to look for the right person whom I can approach with these or a person who can help me bring this matter to His Eminence in Australia without jeopardizing my identity and the people around me. As much as I am vigilant about this, I have to consider our safety. I know the people involve, they have connections to other people in power here. Anything can happen.
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« Reply #159 on: August 12, 2008, 03:34:04 AM »

What's the use of the TRUTH when it is laced with lies? Figures (did they say 6000?), numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect to draw funds. I heard His Eminence Paul came over to the Philippines but I doubt if he was able to see for himself if those churches and 6,000 people actually exist. I won't be here and talking empty if I don't know anything about this. I personally do know something but it won't be good to discuss this right on here. As much as I believe the church nor its leaders shouldn't be judgmental of anyone's motives and intentions in serving God, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve Him.
Most of the names of the people presented on the site as depicted in the image above don't even have an idea of what is actually going on. In short, they have been presented on here without even knowing what is it all about. almost everything was a lie.
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« Reply #160 on: August 12, 2008, 03:30:39 PM »

Most of the names of the people presented on the site as depicted in the image above don't even have an idea of what is actually going on. In short, they have been presented on here without even knowing what is it all about. almost everything was a lie.

Referring you to something Fr. Anastasios said above:

But if there is anything going on that is bad then there needs to be some documented proof: photos; video interviews; letters.

For you to assert that almost everything presented here is a lie, you need to first be able to present to us the truth, together with documented proof as described above.
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« Reply #161 on: August 12, 2008, 10:08:33 PM »

Referring you to something Fr. Anastasios said above:

For you to assert that almost everything presented here is a lie, you need to first be able to present to us the truth, together with documented proof as described above.
I answered it already. I will not drag the details and evidences right on this board. I have reasons not to do so.
I will just wait for the right person whom I can entrust these informations to and who wouldn't jeopardize my identity once the informations are  out. 
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« Reply #162 on: August 12, 2008, 11:30:41 PM »

I answered it already. I will not drag the details and evidences right on this board. I have reasons not to do so.
I will just wait for the right person whom I can entrust these informations to and who wouldn't jeopardize my identity once the informations are  out. 

Then I'll repeat something else Fr. Anastasios, our site owner, said.

I would suggest that making a post saying you know the truth but aren't going to discuss it on here is worse than just saying what you know. It's going to make people wonder more.interviews; letters.

Why are you here telling us that things are not as they appear when you refuse to tell us what is really going on when you are asked to do so?
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« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2008, 09:24:05 AM »

What's the use of the TRUTH when it is laced with lies? Figures (did they say 6000?), numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect to draw funds. I heard His Eminence Paul came over to the Philippines but I doubt if he was able to see for himself if those churches and 6,000 people actually exist. I won't be here and talking empty if I don't know anything about this. I personally do know something but it won't be good to discuss this right on here. As much as I believe the church nor its leaders shouldn't be judgmental of anyone's motives and intentions in serving God, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve Him.

You dont make sense... If you didnt want your identity to be damaged or whatever, why did you come to this forum then?  Huh
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« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2008, 11:56:21 PM »

I am weighing the options of bringing the details on here or not. I have the knowledge and I have the evidences. Right now, I am trying to look for the right person whom I can approach with these or a person who can help me bring this matter to His Eminence in Australia without jeopardizing my identity and the people around me. As much as I am vigilant about this, I have to consider our safety. I know the people involve, they have connections to other people in power here. Anything can happen.


Just a piece of brotherly advice; you must write directly to the  Orthodox Primate of the Philippines, His Eminence Archbishop Paul Saliba. He is the right person to approach regarding your concerns. If you no longer trust the local leaders of your Church then go to His Eminence.


Most of the names of the people presented on the site as depicted in the image above don't even have an idea of what is actually going on. In short, they have been presented on here without even knowing what is it all about. almost everything was a lie.

It sounds that you are very familiar with the people under the Davao Vicariate under the Orthodox Vicar Bishop Jeptah Aniceto.  If your allegations can be substantiated then report them to His Eminence Archbishop Paul Saliba.   As far as I'm concerned, the Manila Vicariate under Vicar Bishop Yitzak has no such problem or controversies within his jurisdiction.


What's the use of the TRUTH when it is laced with lies? Figures (did they say 6000?), numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect to draw funds. I heard His Eminence Paul came over to the Philippines but I doubt if he was able to see for himself if those churches and 6,000 people actually exist. I won't be here and talking empty if I don't know anything about this. I personally do know something but it won't be good to discuss this right on here. As much as I believe the church nor its leaders shouldn't be judgmental of anyone's motives and intentions in serving God, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve Him.

Thank you for expressing your concerns. For me these concerns of yours should not be ignored. If there are problems with the leadership in the Davao Viacariate then the Orthodox Primate of the Philippines should be informed immediately. He should be the first man to be aware of these problems and controversies. Instead of reporting your observations and concerns here in the discussion board you must go through the right channels. Otherwise people would think that you are only spreading gossips and hearsay through this discussion board.   Write His Eminence now and tell him everything. Only then you can get the proper solution to your problems and concerns.  May the merciful God and Savior Jesus Christ give you the strength to fulfill this  noble task.


P.S. I have yet to see the "6,000" Filipino Orthodox in Davao, Western and Central Visayas under Vicar Bishop Jeptah Aniceto. A single picture showing a thousand member will suffice.  As the saying goes; "To see is to believe".  I think Sohma_hatori can tell us something if there are literally "6,000" Filipino Orthodox in that area of the Philippines. Grin  So far, as of this writing, the Davao Vicariate has not published a single photograph of their communities, missions or churches verifying their alleged "6,000"  Orthodox converts. Not a single photograph is posted in the official website of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Isn't that wonderful? Therefore, I believe our brother or sister GodIsGoodHeSavesMe is telling the truth.  Yes "figures , numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect."


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« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2008, 03:56:09 AM »


P.S. I have yet to see the "6,000" Filipino Orthodox in Davao, Western and Central Visayas under Vicar Bishop Jeptah Aniceto. A single picture showing a thousand member will suffice.  As the saying goes; "To see is to believe".  I think Sohma_hatori can tell us something if there are literally "6,000" Filipino Orthodox in that area of the Philippines. Grin  So far, as of this writing, the Davao Vicariate has not published a single photograph of their communities, missions or churches verifying their alleged "6,000"  Orthodox converts. Not a single photograph is posted in the official website of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Isn't that wonderful? Therefore, I believe our brother or sister GodIsGoodHeSavesMe is telling the truth.  Yes "figures , numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect."


Well, (do correct me if im wrong), but insofar as my knowledge is concerned, a majority of these "6000" aren't Orthodox yet, (like myself)..
Most of them, like members of the community in Bislig City, are still cathecumens and are preparing for their chrismation into the Holy Church. Fr. Jeph is having a hard time organizing the missions due to logistics and other resources.

I do not know however about the communities in Western Visayas.
God bless the Church in the Philippines!


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« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2008, 12:06:22 PM »

Well, (do correct me if im wrong), but insofar as my knowledge is concerned, a majority of these "6000" aren't Orthodox yet, (like myself)..
Most of them, like members of the community in Bislig City, are still cathecumens and are preparing for their chrismation into the Holy Church. Fr. Jeph is having a hard time organizing the missions due to logistics and other resources.

I do not know however about the communities in Western Visayas.
God bless the Church in the Philippines!




Thanks for the valuable input Sohma_hatori. There seems to be conflicting reports regarding the actual or real figures of Orthodox converts or members in the Philippines under the Antiochian Orthodox Primate based in Australia. The Orthodox WIKI reported  on 25th May 2008 that:

"The Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand has accepted two denominations in the Philippines into the Archdiocese, including over 30 religious leaders and 31 churches with ~6000 adherents. This has been heralded as a "historic moment in the history of the Patriarchate of Antioch and the Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand", and has prompted a change of name to reflect the breadth of the Archdiocese, being renamed to include 'Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines', with Met. Abp. Paul as primate of all three."

Please see Recent Events, Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines

The presence of approximately "6,000 adherents" in the Philippines as reported  justified the "change of name" or honorary "title" of the Antiochian Orthodox hierarch in Australia as  Orthodox "Primate" of the Philippines.  Without these "6,000"  adherents which were reported to have been already "accepted" do you think the so called "change of name" or title of the Metropolitan based in Australia as "Primate" of the Philippines is still justifiable?  I don't think so.  How can a Hierarch calls himself canonically as "Primate" if he has less than 500 adherents?

Is it canonical or fair to call or even consider a certain Hierarch  "Primate" if he has less than 500 Chrismated members?  As fas as I am concerned, the Greek Orthodox  Metropolitan of  Hong Kong and South East Asia (E.P) under which the Filipino Orthodox  in Paranaque, Laguna, Masbate and elsewhere belong did not took pride nor boasted  the title of "Primate of the Philippines" due to the fact that he has less than a thousand Filipino adherents in the Philippines.   

I'm not saying that the Antiochian Hierarch should drop the title outright but I am questioning its validity due to the questionable and conflicting reports on the actual number or figures of Orthodox converts or adherents under the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines.  Therefore, GodisGoodHeSavesMe statements and allegations still holds water (i.e., that "figures , numbers, locations and people can merely be drawings. It can be made even picture-perfect").  Its indeed necessary to make a reality check.





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« Reply #167 on: August 28, 2008, 09:58:14 AM »

Well, (do correct me if im wrong), but insofar as my knowledge is concerned, a majority of these "6000" aren't Orthodox yet, (like myself)..
Most of them, like members of the community in Bislig City, are still cathecumens and are preparing for their chrismation into the Holy Church. Fr. Jeph is having a hard time organizing the missions due to logistics and other resources.

I do not know however about the communities in Western Visayas.
God bless the Church in the Philippines!



There weren't even a 50 cathecumens in the Mindanao. I wish they will be going to send people to verify all these so called cathechumens. With all the documents at hand right now, I am bringing this to His Eminence. 
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« Reply #168 on: August 28, 2008, 11:43:41 AM »

There weren't even a 50 cathecumens in the Mindanao. I wish they will be going to send people to verify all these so called cathechumens. With all the documents at hand right now, I am bringing this to His Eminence. 

 So it appears now that the  present Vicar just made us believe that he has thousands of followers but in fact has only less than a hundred cathecumens!  So that's the reason why there is not even a single photograph of the so-called "6,000"  Filipino adherents which was reported in May 2008  as already  received into the Antiochian jurisdiction, hence, making the Antiochian Archbishop  based in Australia the Orthodox "Primate"  of the Philippines. Yes, do bring this up to His Eminence.

To my knowledge, His Eminence made his pastoral visit only to the very small Antiochian Orthodox communities in Luzon under Vicar Yitzak.  Its also wonderful why this historic pastoral visit to the Philippines was not even published in the official website of the Antiochian Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Was the Greek Orthodox Vicar of Manila even informed of the pastoral visit?  I don't think so. As far as I know the two haven't met yet nor even communicated by phone. Where is Orthodox brotherhood if not even a courtesy call was given to an Orthodox leader of the country being visited  Huh  The leaders are the one's who should show good examples for emulation. There is really something wrong going on and its a shame!

Thank you again for bringing this up. Our Filipino Orthodox (EP) friends in Manila should also be aware of this very timely expose of yours. May God strengthen you more.

For our foreign viewers, the Mindanao island is the southern main island of the Philippine archipelago  where the Antiochian Vicariate of Davao (and the reported "6,000" adherents) is located:


Image of Mindanao from the Wikipedia

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« Reply #169 on: September 05, 2008, 09:04:58 AM »

Hey..

I'll be chrismated this month...  Undecided
a lot of problems have risen though...
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« Reply #170 on: September 05, 2008, 09:32:44 PM »

Hey..

I'll be chrismated this month...  Undecided
a lot of problems have risen though...

I'm already aware of the  problems and anomalies. Welcome to the world of Orthodoxy! Please continue praying for God's guidance.
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« Reply #171 on: September 06, 2008, 08:57:28 AM »

actually, i was efering to parental problems.. especially that papa is against my chrismation..

what concerns and anomalies did you have in mind?
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« Reply #172 on: September 07, 2008, 06:54:19 AM »

what concerns and anomalies did you have in mind?

Please refer to the post of an "insider" from Davao.
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« Reply #173 on: September 11, 2008, 12:16:30 PM »

actually, i was efering to parental problems.. especially that papa is against my chrismation..

what concerns and anomalies did you have in mind?
Hello Sohma. Like you, I want to belong to the  orthodoxy as well. Unfortunately, I know the person
involve in this issue more than you know him. I am a sheep that has refused to be led by a person who founded his ordination and ministry in lies and deception. And believe me, its wiser to heed your father's advice for now (as I see it, you are 16 in your profile).  If in time, there will be a Sheppard who lives with what he preaches and will lead me to the light of true faith... I WILL NOT HESITATE to be an orthodox. I am actually praying for strength in fighting for the truth. God bless you and please include me in your prayers.
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« Reply #174 on: September 12, 2008, 05:58:32 AM »

actually, i was efering to parental problems.. especially that papa is against my chrismation..

what concerns and anomalies did you have in mind?
Hello Sohma. Like you, I want to belong to the  orthodoxy as well. Unfortunately, I know the person
involve in this issue more than you know him. I am a sheep that has refused to be led by a person who founded his ordination and ministry in lies and deception. And believe me, its wiser to heed your father's advice for now (as I see it, you are 16 in your profile).  If in time, there will be a Sheppard who lives with what he preaches and will lead me to the light of true faith... I WILL NOT HESITATE to be an orthodox. I am actually praying for strength in fighting for the truth. God bless you and please include me in your prayers.

I would have to agree with GodIsGoodHeSavesMe. This is not the right time for you Sohma to join a group whose present leaders are involved in various anomalies. Please be patient and wait for better times. Again, pray for God's guidance.

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« Reply #175 on: September 12, 2008, 08:27:22 AM »

Can you at least make me aware of those anomalies??! I want to know too!! And i believe that even if im still not in the age of mature reasoning, i at least have the right to know!  Cry

I want to know if my trust in them was betrayed or not!
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« Reply #176 on: September 12, 2008, 09:40:51 AM »

Can you at least make me aware of those anomalies??! I want to know too!!

The anomalies (not all of them) were already mentioned here and it is a shame! Please re-read ALL the posts by GodIsGoodHeSavesMe in this thread. Of course, the few people who are still loyal to the leader (including the anomalous leader himself) will deny them. 

From the beginning of the establishment of the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines you will also see various loopholes and anomalies. If you have been reading this thread from the very start you should have been aware of those anomalies. Hence you see the reactions from the local Orthodox faithful under the EP because they saw them very clearly and realized these shameful things committed by  these leaders or  Orthodox shepherds from the other jurisdiction.  So you should not wonder anymore why both Orthodox jurisdictions are ignoring each other.  Because previously you wrote:

The troubling fact is that both jurisdictions are IGNORING each other presence here!! Its as if there was never an "agreement" between them! Im already confused as it is, as I am under the guidance of both an EP and Antiochian priest...

Who in his right mind will join such Orthodox groups? So weight things very carefully before deciding to join them.  But don't loose hope for better times are coming. Keep on praying and keep the Orthodox faith.



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« Reply #177 on: September 12, 2008, 01:51:17 PM »

Can you at least make me aware of those anomalies??! I want to know too!!

The anomalies (not all of them) were already mentioned here and it is a shame!
Already mentioned here, and already argued here from the perspective of your opponents, as well.

Quote
Please re-read ALL the posts by GodIsGoodHeSavesMe in this thread.
He who only hints at improprieties but refuses to speak of them in detail when asked...

Quote
Of course, the few people who are still loyal to the leader (including the anomalous leader himself) will deny them.
But, reading only what one sees posted here, whom does one trust?

Quote
From the beginning of the establishment of the Antiochian jurisdiction in the Philippines you will also see various loopholes and anomalies. If you have been reading this thread from the very start you should have been aware of those anomalies.
Correction:  allegations of anomalies...  Let each reader determine for himself if the allegations have merit.

Quote
Hence you see the reactions from the local Orthodox faithful under the EP because they saw them very clearly and realized these shameful things committed by  these leaders or  Orthodox shepherds from the other jurisdiction.  So you should not wonder anymore why both Orthodox jurisdictions are ignoring each other.  Because previously you wrote:

The troubling fact is that both jurisdictions are IGNORING each other presence here!! Its as if there was never an "agreement" between them! Im already confused as it is, as I am under the guidance of both an EP and Antiochian priest...

Who in his right mind will join such Orthodox groups? So weight things very carefully before deciding to join them.  But don't loose hope for better times are coming. Keep on praying and keep the Orthodox faith.
Yes, please do.  Please gather evidence from both sides before making a judgment and acting upon it.
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« Reply #178 on: September 21, 2008, 09:40:01 PM »

PeterTheAleut, thanks so much for the advises..

As for GodIsGoodHeSavesMe, I believe i now know where you came from. Tell me, where you a vicariate employee, recently fired from your job in the "Bigasan ng Parokya"? Because, if "you were that person", I think I have good reason to doubt the allegations you have posted here, as i spent some time gathering evidence. If you certainly match the person on my mind, your submission of complaints to His Eminence Saliba, may just be some sort of an act of revenge for the vicariate's firing of you. (please correct my grammar if necesarry  laugh)

The Archbishop came here a few months ago, and he's coming back on the 4th of October, by which at that time, I will be chrismated and ordained as a sub-deacon. I doubt that he would ever come back to Davao, just to check on parishes and missions, which GodIsGoodHeSavesMe, claims to "NOT EXIST". The Archbishop has seen the Churches and has seen the progress of the misions, it would be totally illogical of him, to forsee the development of missions that "DONT EVEN EXIST"!  Angry

Im not sure what your getting at, but because of you I certainly did doubt the integrity of the vicar-general, which I now regret having done so (may the Lord forgive me). I agree with PeterTheAleut, that your somebody "who only hints at improprieties but refuses to speak of them in detail when asked...". We dont even know you personally, so defending yourself by saying that you don't want your identity damaged, is out of the questions. If your really intent in divulging the truth, why dont you substantiate your arguments and convince us that indeed, their are serious anomalies in the Davao vicariate?  Angry

May God have Mercy on our country.
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« Reply #179 on: September 22, 2008, 01:34:34 AM »


As for GodIsGoodHeSavesMe, I believe i now know where you came from. Tell me, where you a vicariate employee, recently fired from your job in the "Bigasan ng Parokya"? Because, if "you were that person", I think I have good reason to doubt the allegations you have posted here, as i spent some time gathering evidence. If you certainly match the person on my mind, your submission of complaints to His Eminence Saliba, may just be some sort of an act of revenge for the vicariate's firing of you. (please correct my grammar if necesarry  laugh)

I am in no way an employee of Jeptah Aniceto and never was. I can see how he still can lie through his teeth now. The evidence you have at hand is basically a one-sided, it must just be his words against mine. You have heard him but you haven't been into the areas (the supposed churches as listed in that website). Were you able to talk to the people in those areas other than Aniceto? Were you able to talk to  the people whose names were listed on that webpage?

The Archbishop came here a few months ago, and he's coming back on the 4th of October, by which at that time, I will be chrismated and ordained as a sub-deacon. I doubt that he would ever come back to Davao, just to check on parishes and missions, which GodIsGoodHeSavesMe, claims to "NOT EXIST". The Archbishop has seen the Churches and has seen the progress of the misions, it would be totally illogical of him, to forsee the development of missions that "DONT EVEN EXIST"!  Angry

The first lie, he used these people just so he have "people" to present to Archbishop few months back. How long did the Archbishop stayed with the congregation? 30mins, an hour? There was a confrontation among the people and Aniceto because most of these people didn't understand what was going on but the Archbishop didn't understand it simply because Aniceto didn't even give anyone a chance to have an open forum with the Archbishop. (posted with permission): Take note.. there are more coming...


Im not sure what your getting at, but because of you I certainly did doubt the integrity of the vicar-general, which I now regret having done so (may the Lord forgive me). I agree with PeterTheAleut, that your somebody "who only hints at improprieties but refuses to speak of them in detail when asked...". We dont even know you personally, so defending yourself by saying that you don't want your identity damaged, is out of the questions. If your really intent in divulging the truth, why dont you substantiate your arguments and convince us that indeed, their are serious anomalies in the Davao vicariate?  Angry

May God have Mercy on our country.


He might be able to destroy my integrity as a person and the integrity of the people he fooled here. But he will never be able to destroy the integrity of the TRUTH itself.
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