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Question: Do you believe that the acount of genesis in the Old testament should be taken literally?
Yes - 54 (15.7%)
No - 133 (38.6%)
both metaphorically and literally - 158 (45.8%)
Total Voters: 345

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Author Topic: Creationism, Evolution, and Orthodoxy  (Read 344442 times) Average Rating: 0
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Strongylocentrotus
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Faith: I am an atheist, but I do have faith in a good horse...
Jurisdiction: Baptised in the Bulgarian Orthodox Church
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With Overlook Cocquette - my favorite mare 1984


« Reply #5670 on: October 26, 2014, 11:11:43 PM »

it seems Fr. Herman just passed away earlier this year. So you knew both priests personally?

Yes sir. About three years 1979-1983. I attended the local ROCOR parrish in Redding where Father Seraphim served. I did not know about Father Herman's passing. Thank you.

Despite their disagreements on science, I hope they had a positive impression on you nonetheless.  I tend to see the good in my priests who have been nothing but spiritually edifying in my growth.

Father Seraphim was the most angelic human being I have ever met.  And modest...  The Father Seraphim I knew would be deeply chagrined by the reverence that some people hold for him today.  He would also be embarrassed by some who claim that he was a theologian.  He did have this almost beatific smile on those rare occaisions that he favored me with it.  I can hear him even today smiling and admonishing me "Michael you always miss the point..."  Usually after arguing (discussing?) about toll houses, or science and modernism.  Later after he reposed, I learned that some my positions echoed ones taken by a certain deacon named Lev Puhalo.  Being a Bulgarian, I was of course totally unaware of this deacon and the sharp debate that Father Seraphim had with him in the seventies.  Evidently it was a big deal... roilling the waters in the Synod one time long ago.  But he never let on and was magnanimous and patient with me.  I am now almost 15 years older than he was on that hot, clear September day in 1982 when he left us.  I helped to line the coffin that Basil Anderson built for him... A few years after he died, I dreamed about him in a lineshack on a cattle ranch I was working on: I was laying on a cot drowsing when he came in the door and stomped the snow from his brogans. I got up and said "Father Seraphim would you like some tea? (ishkus dipiish edna konchi chai?) and he put his hands on my shoulders, waggled his head from side to side (like a Bulgarian) and answered "Da, dobre sum".  I turned to get the tea and gave it to him.  He took the tea then smiled saying "Mishu you still are missing the point, and then he blessed me with the sign of the cross and sprinkled me with salt...  I woke up to an empty dark shack, but I cold still smell him... incense, sweat and wet wool...

As for Father Herman... well that is more complicated.  Something I still need to think about and he is recently deposed.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 11:37:22 PM by Strongylocentrotus » Logged

If you cain't stand the stink, then don't kick the skunk!
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
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Toumarches
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Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #5671 on: October 26, 2014, 11:34:06 PM »

Thank you for sharing that beautiful story.  I have stated this many times throughout this discussion.  I personally believe that despite disagreements with him on science, he is still worthy of veneration.  May his prayers be with us all.
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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Strongylocentrotus
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With Overlook Cocquette - my favorite mare 1984


« Reply #5672 on: October 26, 2014, 11:44:39 PM »

Thank you for sharing that beautiful story.  I have stated this many times throughout this discussion.  I personally believe that despite disagreements with him on science, he is still worthy of veneration.  May his prayers be with us all.

Thank you and yes, you are right, but he would be uncomfortable about it...
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If you cain't stand the stink, then don't kick the skunk!
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
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Toumarches
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Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #5673 on: October 26, 2014, 11:53:41 PM »

I hope with his vantage point now, he may have the compassion to understand why I take the views I do.  Smiley

Despite my upbringing by my church to tell me that evolution is wrong, I have managed to still love and stay firm in my faith for the Church.  I see the glory of God in all things, even in science, even in sea urchins and horses Wink.  Without Him all things are vain.  Without Christ, all things are false.  And without the Spirit, all things are dead.  (from a spiritual purposeful standpoint)
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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Strongylocentrotus
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Faith: I am an atheist, but I do have faith in a good horse...
Jurisdiction: Baptised in the Bulgarian Orthodox Church
Posts: 47


With Overlook Cocquette - my favorite mare 1984


« Reply #5674 on: October 27, 2014, 12:48:45 AM »

I hope with his vantage point now, he may have the compassion to understand why I take the views I do.  Smiley

Despite my upbringing by my church to tell me that evolution is wrong, I have managed to still love and stay firm in my faith for the Church.  I see the glory of God in all things, even in science, even in sea urchins and horses Wink.  Without Him all things are vain.  Without Christ, all things are false.  And without the Spirit, all things are dead.  (from a spiritual purposeful standpoint)

Spoken truly and with a lot of Grace... I really believe that you believe, and to some extent I am envious of that.  There are people who are atheist, because they are confident that science can eventually explain everything without recourse to a Theistic agent.  To them this economy is a more elegant explanation.  Some people are atheists because of something, usually traumatic, in their life experience.  Some people are atheists because of the hypocrisy that they perceive in people of faith and in the institutions of faith.  Some people are atheists because they believe that reason alone trumps faith.  Then there are some people like myself who are atheist because they have something missing or different going on in the bio-chemical architecture of their brains. I have never felt the presence of, or as you say, seen the glory of God in all things...  Just as a person can be born without a sense of empathy, or without the ability to distinguish between the colors of red and green, some people are also born without the ability to sense a higher power in the universe.  We humans have religious beliefs and emotions because through natural selection acting on our genes over millions of years, creatures with this ability have prospered genetically better than those without.  Unfortunately, I don't have it and about twenty years ago, I finally had the grace just to accept it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 12:49:57 AM by Strongylocentrotus » Logged

If you cain't stand the stink, then don't kick the skunk!
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
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Toumarches
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Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #5675 on: October 29, 2014, 01:46:58 PM »

Have you considered seeing the Orthodox Faith for its consistency?  That all the dogmas and virtues it teaches is consonant with a proper and fulfilling way to seek a more fulfilling unity with God?  You could see this in an analogous way to theoretical physicists.  They use the tool of math to look for consistency in the laws of the universe, and if tests seem to confirm what their calculations tell them, they submit to it in faith.

Likewise, it could perhaps help you to see the faith in this way.  Questions like what is God, what is creation, and what is the purpose of one's existence can help you understand how you can choose to live the faith even if unable to feel something...yet.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 01:47:31 PM by minasoliman » Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Tags: science Theory of Evolution evolution creationism cheval mort 
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