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Author Topic: The Authority of John Damascene  (Read 835 times) Average Rating: 0
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truthstalker
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« on: April 22, 2009, 10:06:16 PM »

So I'm trucking along in his marvelous work, and he says marvelous things about God, and says in tens of words what Augustine takes thousands to sort of say.  Good stuff.  Then I come to his cosmology, his geocentrism, and there are only seven planets, including the sun and the moon, and I say to myself, are the Orthodox believers in a geocentric cosmology? And he believes the planets influence events on earth (but not men, who have free will)...

Are the Orthodox believers in a geocentric cosmology? And in a sort of astrology? How much authority does JD have in the EO?

I am posting this here because I think it should be a softball easy-throw sort of question.
 Placed on post moderation for trolling behaviour in Convert Issues forum after being warned.
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 10:10:38 PM by ozgeorge » Logged
ozgeorge
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 10:08:58 PM »

I am posting this here because I think it should be a softball easy-throw sort of question.


Really?
So you are going to ignore the Section moderator's instructions to you and just troll?
Thread locked pending his review and you are now on post moderation.

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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 10:22:37 PM »

Truthstalker,
You have started many topics in the Convert Issues forum which have had to be moved out into Orthodox-Other Christian discussion.
Today, the Section Moderator reminded everyone twice about the purpose of the Convert Issues forum precisely because of this.
Please take time to read the stated purpose.
I'm locking this thread until the Section Moderator can review it.

George



At the recommendation of my fellow moderators it has been suggested that  I re-present the Purposeof the Convert Issues Forum:

Beloved in the Lord,

The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful.

If the moderators find that the discusions become faith or jurisdiction debates, the topic will be split and sent the appropriate OC.Net forum to continue the discussion or debate. As a poster,You may also ask that a topic be split so that a private discussion can be established to go into detail about the issues that you feel adamant about and wish to debate or discuss. The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or arguement. 

Thank you for your following these guidelines to the edification and spiritual growth of the forum inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Forum Moderator


In concurrance with other moderators I have been advised to  re-present the Convert Issues Forum's Purpose
Beloved in the Lord,

The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful.

If the moderators find that the discusions become faith or jurisdiction debates, the topic will be split and sent the appropriate OC.Net forum to continue the discussion or debate. As a poster,You may also ask that a topic be split so that a private discussion can be established to go into detail about the issues that you feel adamant about and wish to debate or discuss. The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or arguement. 

Thank you for your following these guidelines to the edification and spiritual growth of the forum inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Forum Moderator

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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 01:03:36 PM »

Truth Stalker,

Thanks for your well thought out question that once again requires more than a simple answer. St. John Damascene is one of many Orthodox theologians or teacher's. Many of his writings are seen as eternal teachings that have reached the level of interaction throughout the centuries of the Church.  Those teachings are honored and have become part of the theolegumen (Theological thought or opinion) of the Church, his teaching is not dogma. We must remember however that in some cases he was utilizing  thought and learning that was specific to his century. This topic is one of them.  He is not representative of modern Orthodox teaching about the planetary system of the universe, he is speaking as a well educated man of his time not of our century. As one progresses in the understanding of Orthodox Doctrine, one must separate the dated from the eternal.  In all such cases I recommend that one discuss these issues with a local Orthodox priest or trained Orthodox theologian who can perhaps illuminate you better on this matter.

In order for this to be more openly debated and discussed, I am transferring this to another forum.

Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator.
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Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
truthstalker
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 11:55:54 PM »

Truth Stalker,

Thanks for your well thought out question that once again requires more than a simple answer. St. John Damascene is one of many Orthodox theologians or teacher's. Many of his writings are seen as eternal teachings that have reached the level of interaction throughout the centuries of the Church.  Those teachings are honored and have become part of the theolegumen (Theological thought or opinion) of the Church, his teaching is not dogma. We must remember however that in some cases he was utilizing  thought and learning that was specific to his century. This topic is one of them.  He is not representative of modern Orthodox teaching about the planetary system of the universe, he is speaking as a well educated man of his time not of our century. As one progresses in the understanding of Orthodox Doctrine, one must separate the dated from the eternal.  In all such cases I recommend that one discuss these issues with a local Orthodox priest or trained Orthodox theologian who can perhaps illuminate you better on this matter.

In order for this to be more openly debated and discussed, I am transferring this to another forum.

Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator.

Do the Orthodox have different levels of teaching, as in dogma, doctrine, discipline, etc.? Is a presbyter trained to differentiate the eternal from the dated? How do you tell one from the other?  I really didn't think you take everthing he said at the same level, and I think I would have guessed that your answer would be along the lines you stated. Folllowing questions: Are there different levels of authority? Is the presbyter/bishop relationship identical to the Catholic concept of priest/bishop, with a strong hierarchy? Do you always trust a patriarch more than a bishop? What do you do with a heretical bishop (as in the days of the Arians)? Are you bound to follow him?
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truthstalker
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Posts: 166


« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 10:09:47 PM »

Truth Stalker,

Thanks for your well thought out question that once again requires more than a simple answer. St. John Damascene is one of many Orthodox theologians or teacher's. Many of his writings are seen as eternal teachings that have reached the level of interaction throughout the centuries of the Church.  Those teachings are honored and have become part of the theolegumen (Theological thought or opinion) of the Church, his teaching is not dogma. We must remember however that in some cases he was utilizing  thought and learning that was specific to his century. This topic is one of them.  He is not representative of modern Orthodox teaching about the planetary system of the universe, he is speaking as a well educated man of his time not of our century. As one progresses in the understanding of Orthodox Doctrine, one must separate the dated from the eternal.  In all such cases I recommend that one discuss these issues with a local Orthodox priest or trained Orthodox theologian who can perhaps illuminate you better on this matter.

In order for this to be more openly debated and discussed, I am transferring this to another forum.

Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator.

Do the Orthodox have different levels of teaching, as in dogma, doctrine, discipline, etc.? Is a presbyter trained to differentiate the eternal from the dated? How do you tell one from the other?  I really didn't think you take everthing he said at the same level, and I think I would have guessed that your answer would be along the lines you stated. Folllowing questions: Are there different levels of authority? Is the presbyter/bishop relationship identical to the Catholic concept of priest/bishop, with a strong hierarchy? Do you always trust a patriarch more than a bishop? What do you do with a heretical bishop (as in the days of the Arians)? Are you bound to follow him?

Hello?
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