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Author Topic: New movie “Expelled” challenges Darwinian theory  (Read 47893 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #270 on: February 22, 2010, 09:06:48 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain.
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« Reply #271 on: February 22, 2010, 09:49:49 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain.
And then there are those of us who are unwilling to attempt to understand the metaphysical aspects of ourselves and how they interact with said chemicals and neural networks.
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« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2010, 10:01:23 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain.
And then there are those of us who are unwilling to attempt to understand the metaphysical aspects of ourselves and how they interact with said chemicals and neural networks.

Oh, it's not ignored, there's a field of neurology, going by the term neurotheology from Huxley's Island, that studies the parts of the brain that generate what some perceive as religious experiences in a repeatable, verifiable, and quantitative manner; as well as the evolutionary origins of this part of the brain.

Of course, no one has managed to demonstrate that there are stimuli from non-physical sources that affect these neurons, but if you have scientific evidence of such, I'd be willing to look at it.
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« Reply #273 on: February 22, 2010, 10:50:49 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain.
And then there are those of us who are unwilling to attempt to understand the metaphysical aspects of ourselves and how they interact with said chemicals and neural networks.

Oh, it's not ignored, there's a field of neurology, going by the term neurotheology from Huxley's Island, that studies the parts of the brain that generate what some perceive as religious experiences in a repeatable, verifiable, and quantitative manner; as well as the evolutionary origins of this part of the brain.

Of course, no one has managed to demonstrate that there are stimuli from non-physical sources that affect these neurons, but if you have scientific evidence of such, I'd be willing to look at it.
How cool. I was unaware such research existed.
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« Reply #274 on: February 22, 2010, 11:08:01 PM »

Oh, it's not ignored, there's a field of neurology, going by the term neurotheology from Huxley's Island, that studies the parts of the brain that generate what some perceive as religious experiences in a repeatable, verifiable, and quantitative manner; as well as the evolutionary origins of this part of the brain.

Of course, no one has managed to demonstrate that there are stimuli from non-physical sources that affect these neurons, but if you have scientific evidence of such, I'd be willing to look at it.
How cool. I was unaware such research existed.

If you have the chance, you should look into some of the writings by Dr. David J. Linden.  Though only a few pieces tend to relate to religion/faith and the brain, he does a lot of work on the evolution of the brain and how its past affects us even now.
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« Reply #275 on: February 27, 2010, 09:25:05 PM »

None of it affects how cells divide, none of it affects how gravity attracts objects, none of it affects electro-magnetic currents, none of it affects the computational mechanics of a neural network, it's just not real.

But, since Philosophy does affect those who can destroy the dividing cells, those who manipulate electro-magnetic currents, and those who steer and utilize the computational mechanics of a neural network, it is quite real.

-----------------------------------------------

As an aside, I finally saw the movie.  I'm not a fan of the style, certainly.  But if even 1 thing claimed is true (with regards to the persecution of non-religious ID talk, especially), then it is a shame on science, which should be focused merely on gathering the evidence and having the debate, and not on how people react to the evidence & debate (which should be left to the Philosophers and Sociologists). 

If someone wants to propose a flat earth (& has "evidence" to support it) and debate those who have evidence to the contrary, science should facilitate the debate with no interest in the outcome, even if the outcome is patently predictable.  If science denies the ability to question even the most thoroughly entrenched, proven, accepted laws, it ceases being science and should be moved to the Philosophy department.  If the movie is 100% false on all fronts, then science has nothing to fear, and people should cease with the vitriol.

I do agree that only peer-reviewed research should be presented in schools, especially everything below Graduate and Post-Grad level studies.  If ID gets to that level, then so be it.  If not, then so be it.  I personally think ID is the only way to explain the heretofore unexplained, but I'm also fairly confident that my assertion cannot be proven scientifically, and will only be justified in The Kingdom, not in the laboratory or classroom.
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« Reply #276 on: April 07, 2010, 09:01:59 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain. 

If we all operate according to a neural network (computer) with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions, then how can we speak of "cop-out," "wish" and "unwilling"--words that denote volition?  From your post, I perceive that you begin with a rather deterministic scheme and then go on to fault those who do not pursue scientific study of the brain.  I do not see the logic behind this.  Not everyone, even amongst the brightest, is networked to become a neuroscientist.  Our genetic predispositions and neural networks are not identical, nor are our experiences the same.  It is to be expected, even from a determinist standpoint, that not everyone find "truth" the same way. 

   

   
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 09:05:03 PM by StGeorge » Logged
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« Reply #277 on: December 19, 2010, 10:25:39 PM »

None of it affects how cells divide, none of it affects how gravity attracts objects, none of it affects electro-magnetic currents, none of it affects the computational mechanics of a neural network, it's just not real.

But, since Philosophy does affect those who can destroy the dividing cells, those who manipulate electro-magnetic currents, and those who steer and utilize the computational mechanics of a neural network, it is quite real.

-----------------------------------------------
The observer effect strikes again. Greeki doesn't like those pesky humans getting in the way of "pure" knowledge.

Quote
As an aside, I finally saw the movie.  I'm not a fan of the style, certainly.  But if even 1 thing claimed is true (with regards to the persecution of non-religious ID talk, especially), then it is a shame on science, which should be focused merely on gathering the evidence and having the debate, and not on how people react to the evidence & debate (which should be left to the Philosophers and Sociologists).

Why can't people act more like lab rats? LOL.

Quote
If someone wants to propose a flat earth (& has "evidence" to support it) and debate those who have evidence to the contrary, science should facilitate the debate with no interest in the outcome, even if the outcome is patently predictable.  If science denies the ability to question even the most thoroughly entrenched, proven, accepted laws, it ceases being science and should be moved to the Philosophy department.  If the movie is 100% false on all fronts, then science has nothing to fear, and people should cease with the vitriol.

I do agree that only peer-reviewed research should be presented in schools, especially everything below Graduate and Post-Grad level studies.  If ID gets to that level, then so be it.  If not, then so be it.  I personally think ID is the only way to explain the heretofore unexplained, but I'm also fairly confident that my assertion cannot be proven scientifically, and will only be justified in The Kingdom, not in the laboratory or classroom.
Oh, I think the Climategate emails have vindicated your positions, Father, this side of the Kingdom.
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« Reply #278 on: December 19, 2010, 10:42:21 PM »

Philosophy may be a fun mind-game at times, but none of it has any impact on the reality we all live in from day to day.

Yet every one of us, you included, operates according to a life philosophy.  Wink

Everyone of us operates according to a neural network with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions which is then adjusted and augmented by neural-chemical reactions to perceived environmental inputs. Some may wish to call this a 'philosophy', but it's just a cop-out by those who are unwilling to attempt to understand the biochemical neural network-based computer that is our brain. 

If we all operate according to a neural network (computer) with initial boundaries established by genetic predispositions, then how can we speak of "cop-out," "wish" and "unwilling"--words that denote volition?  From your post, I perceive that you begin with a rather deterministic scheme and then go on to fault those who do not pursue scientific study of the brain.  I do not see the logic behind this.  Not everyone, even amongst the brightest, is networked to become a neuroscientist.  Our genetic predispositions and neural networks are not identical, nor are our experiences the same.  It is to be expected, even from a determinist standpoint, that not everyone find "truth" the same way.     
Don't confuse him with the facts.
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« Reply #279 on: November 17, 2011, 10:08:27 AM »

This video from AAAS, the non-profit science society, explains why religion and science need not be in opposition. It is a response to the intelligent design propaganda movie, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," with Ben Stein. AAAS also released a written statement. See http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2008/0418expelled.shtml. For more on how AAAS works to promote constructive dialogue between religious and scientific leaders, see http://www.aaas.org/evolution.
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« Reply #280 on: November 17, 2011, 06:35:23 PM »

This video from AAAS, the non-profit science society, explains why religion and science need not be in opposition. It is a response to the intelligent design propaganda movie, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," with Ben Stein. AAAS also released a written statement. See http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2008/0418expelled.shtml. For more on how AAAS works to promote constructive dialogue between religious and scientific leaders, see http://www.aaas.org/evolution.

"Different domains! Science ONLY has to do with the natural world" More cluelessness from the dualist/ God-of-the-gaps camp
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« Reply #281 on: November 17, 2011, 10:48:48 PM »

This video from AAAS, the non-profit science society, explains why religion and science need not be in opposition. It is a response to the intelligent design propaganda movie, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," with Ben Stein. AAAS also released a written statement. See http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2008/0418expelled.shtml. For more on how AAAS works to promote constructive dialogue between religious and scientific leaders, see http://www.aaas.org/evolution.

"Different domains! Science ONLY has to do with the natural world" More cluelessness from the dualist/ God-of-the-gaps camp
Who was the person who said that?
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