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Author Topic: The Theology of Metropolitan John Zizioulas  (Read 26067 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #225 on: March 27, 2008, 01:50:30 PM »

I've been following this argument pretty closely, as you can see.  I also know your posting style well enough to know how inflammatory it can be at times, even though flaming others may not be your intent.  Posting quotes from the Fathers without offering any additional commentary whatsoever to clarify the message you intend to express is a big part of this.  To counter this, you might try stating your message in your own words (and with tact), using quotes from the Fathers only as needed to support your statements.
If you are switching the subject of the thread to my posting style, please separate it to another thread where it can be debated.
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« Reply #226 on: March 27, 2008, 01:52:17 PM »

If you are switching the subject of the thread to my posting style, please separate it to another thread where it can be debated.

Peter's not trying to start a debate, and the hostile tone of that response helps make his point. 
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« Reply #227 on: March 27, 2008, 02:00:06 PM »

Peter's not trying to start a debate, and the hostile tone of that response helps make his point. 

How should have it been phrased not to sound hostile? Would you emhasize it to me, please?
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« Reply #228 on: March 27, 2008, 02:01:48 PM »

For example, I would like to know how YOU think Metropolitan John is prying too deeply into the Mystery of the Holy Trinity against the advice of St. Gregory of Nyssa.  I'm not a defender of His Eminence, nor am I one of his critics.  I've actually never read his dogmatic writings before reading and posting on this thread, so I'm interested to know how you read them and what you think of them.
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« Reply #229 on: March 27, 2008, 02:12:25 PM »

For example, I would like to know how YOU think Metropolitan John is prying too deeply into the Mystery of the Holy Trinity against the advice of St. Gregory of Nyssa.

Where did I write that?

BTW, It was St. Gregory the Theologian, too.

I'm not a defender of His Eminence, nor am I one of his critics.  I've actually never read his dogmatic writings before reading and posting on this thread, so I'm interested to know how you read them and what you think of them.

I've already told numerous times on this thread what I did read and that I don't intend to do it anymore.
Some seven years ago I read an article of him ...

The article made me feeling physical pain.

...
I won't read him anymore, it's destructive for my soul.
I'm affraid I'm not able to speak authoritatively about it, I'm not a theologian, but I am able to speak about my impression about it, though it takes time and effort to me, and every such an effort is destructive to my feelings.
...
And I'm actually not criticizing his works at all, I'm just debating with positions the posters are expressing here (attributing them to him).
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« Reply #230 on: March 27, 2008, 02:19:28 PM »

Where did I write that?

BTW, It was St. Gregory the Theologian, too.

I've already told numerous times on this thread what I did read and that I don't intend to do it anymore. And I'm actually not criticizing his works at all, I'm just debating with positions the posters are expressing here (attributing them to him).
Then why are you even on this thread if you have no intent of discussing the works of Metropolitan John (Zizioulas)?  To properly debate other posters' interpretations of his work you need to have a proper understanding of what he himself said, and you can only gain this by reading his works.
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« Reply #231 on: March 27, 2008, 02:24:38 PM »

Then why are you even on this thread if you have no intent of discussing the works of Metropolitan John (Zizioulas)?  To properly debate other posters' interpretations of his work you need to have a proper understanding of what he himself said, and you can only gain this by reading his works.

I'm on this thread, if you don't mind, for the following reasons:

1) The thread was created by separating my post on another thread, with the reference to my stance regarding Metr. Zlizloiulas.

2) I answered your particular question regarding his teaching. I did it politely, and inform you, as my brother, I can't authoritativelly speaking about his work, but I'm entitled to perception of the effects of the work I've read long ago to my soul.

3) I'm not interested in Zlizloilogy, I'm interested in Orthodoxy, therefore, the subject matter of my interest is limited to it.

4) Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
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« Reply #232 on: March 27, 2008, 08:38:00 PM »

3) I'm not interested in Zlizloilogy, I'm interested in Orthodoxy, therefore, the subject matter of my interest is limited to it.
Inherent in this statement, though, is the implication that Metropolitan John (Zizioulas) is not Orthodox.  And you say this why?  Because reading him made you feel sick?  Can you think of a better reason to write him off as un-Orthodox (i.e., not fitting your narrow definition of Orthodoxy)?  (Maybe the distinction you should make instead is between patristic, monastic Orthodoxy on the one hand, and modern, academic Orthodoxy on the other, though some may even take issue with this dichotomy.)
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« Reply #233 on: March 28, 2008, 06:08:57 AM »

Inherent in this statement, though, is the implication that Metropolitan John (Zizioulas) is not Orthodox.  And you say this why?  Because reading him made you feel sick?  Can you think of a better reason to write him off as un-Orthodox (i.e., not fitting your narrow definition of Orthodoxy)?  (Maybe the distinction you should make instead is between patristic, monastic Orthodoxy on the one hand, and modern, academic Orthodoxy on the other, though some may even take issue with this dichotomy.)

I've never said he is not Orthodox.

But I am not a theologian and do not study even each of the Fathers separately, than as a whole, to the extent I'm able to and have time and resources. Therefore, I wouldn't study modern theologians separately, what is what you suggest I should do before "criticizing" Metropolitan.

I'm not cirticizing him. I'm saying certain presented attitudes and conclusions are not Orthodox. I don't know if these are his, or pertain to misinterpretation of his work.

BTW, I have no clue what "academic Orthodoxy" is.

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« Reply #234 on: March 28, 2008, 08:35:29 AM »

The saints writings are meant to provoke fear in us. If they have provoke fear in you than, they are doing what there intent is.
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« Reply #235 on: March 28, 2008, 02:28:47 PM »

The saints writings are meant to provoke fear in us. If they have provoke fear in you than, they are doing what there intent is.

The saints are meant to provoke fear in us?  Perhaps.  Perhaps they also are intermediaries for us to God, and they provide us an example of how to be deified.  Maybe they do that too.  I'm pretty sure that they are not singularly "around" to provide us with fear.  In fact, your statement (again) needs to be backed up with something here more than just throwing it out there....
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« Reply #236 on: March 28, 2008, 02:30:46 PM »



BTW, I have no clue what "academic Orthodoxy" is.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Academic Orthodoxy, as I see it, is the orthodoxy that is studied academically, not spiritually or in monasteries, or etc.  But rather in seminaries, schools of theology, in the modern american academic context. 

Your quote is one to prove something?  The part about the wisdom of words (I assume) is in regards to academic orthodoxy?  If it is, then that would mean that you DO know what academic orthodoxy is...

But maybe i'm taking your quote out of context....
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« Reply #237 on: March 28, 2008, 05:26:54 PM »


But maybe i'm taking your quote out of context....

Actually, you aren't.

I wouldn't count neither St. Athanasios the Great, nor St. John of Damascus, nor St. Gregory the Theologian among the "academic" ones. They can be understood clearly without an academic background.

I have neither been frightened by reading these saints.
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« Reply #238 on: March 29, 2008, 12:09:47 PM »

Please note that I have decided to create another thread where the concept of soul death may be discussed.
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« Reply #239 on: March 29, 2008, 11:38:10 PM »

Actually, you aren't.


Ok then, since I am not taking your quote out of context, then answer my question.  The very nature of putting in a quote to refute something, means that you know what that something is, so then why did you state that: 


BTW, I have no clue what "academic Orthodoxy" is.

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Also,


I wouldn't count neither St. Athanasios the Great, nor St. John of Damascus, nor St. Gregory the Theologian among the "academic" ones. They can be understood clearly without an academic background.

I would disagree on certain levels with this.  Not EVERYTHING they write can be understood without an academic background.  If you don't know how to read and write (academics) then you cannot read their writings.  If you cannot read their writings then you are taking what they are saying based on the words of someone else.  = very poor learning strategy. 

Also, the same men that you mentioned were amongst the most well educated of the fathers.  They certainly would advocate for someone to have a quality academic knowledge of theology AS WELL as advocate for living the faith. 

Could you present to me an explanation of how you can understand the fathers you mentioned without an academic knowledge, or how an academic knowledge is lesser than a rudimentary knowledge of these fathers?  Because I will be more than happy to discuss with you how an academic knowledge of them is BETTER than a rudimentary knowledge, or at least it is more all-encompasing, or extensive (and therefore better). 
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« Reply #240 on: March 29, 2008, 11:57:05 PM »

I wouldn't count neither St. Athanasios the Great, nor St. John of Damascus, nor St. Gregory the Theologian among the "academic" ones. They can be understood clearly without an academic background.
Adding my perspective to serb1389's words above:

ISTM also that when all you have is the background of a rudimentary education, you understand not so much the Holy Fathers as you do someone else's interpretation of the Holy Fathers.  (Okay, maybe I'm just saying something serb1389 already said, but in different words.)
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« Reply #241 on: March 30, 2008, 01:43:18 AM »

Adding my perspective to serb1389's words above:

ISTM also that when all you have is the background of a rudimentary education, you understand not so much the Holy Fathers as you do someone else's interpretation of the Holy Fathers.  (Okay, maybe I'm just saying something serb1389 already said, but in different words.)

I agree.  Now I will rephrase YOUR words (PtA).  When you do not have an "academic knowledge" then the eclectic view of an issue is hard to find.  You usually find yourself reading Schmemann's commentary on the commentary, to the commentary of saint so and so.  Also, you are not accountable to a "objective" professor who looks at your reasoning, adds their expertice, and then pushes you to gain more knowledge in the subject, on a regular basis.  You also don't have to cram for tests... Wink

Just some more thoughts on the matter.  Let me know what you think OL (orthodoxlurker)
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« Reply #242 on: March 30, 2008, 02:24:39 PM »

Adding my perspective to serb1389's words above:

ISTM also that when all you have is the background of a rudimentary education, you understand not so much the Holy Fathers as you do someone else's interpretation of the Holy Fathers.  (Okay, maybe I'm just saying something serb1389 already said, but in different words.)

Holy Fathers very, very simple but devil blinds eyes so they cant understand and God does not give Grace to proud acedemics to see what is written but only to humble monks and confessors.

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« Reply #243 on: March 30, 2008, 03:54:48 PM »

Brothers Peter the Aleut and Serb1389 raised important questions, to which Sophia1925 may have already answered in part. I'll try it too, but words are often lost in internet conversation, and, also, I'm not feeling too well these days, so that affects my limited abilities to respond.

First we should make a distinction regarding education.

Education is not an attribute (a properties) that moves us closer to God. It doesn't affect our salvation. More educated, or those with high IQ are not closer to God compared to less educated pr those with not so high IQ. It is God's grace that matters. Although we all differ regarding our attributes and properties - talents, education, reason, will, knowledge, etc, the cross each one of us is carrying is just appropriate and fitting to our person. Have no doubt about it!

Though mentioned Holy Fathers are among the most educated and most intelligent of their time (and perhaps of all times), they just used their talent to systematize the teaching and to deliver it to us. They did it in the fashion apt to make the teaching easily understandable to each one of us willing to dedicate some time and concentration to read their writings.

But there is no misunderstanding in reading St. Ireneos of Lyons, St. Athanasios the Great, St. John of Damascus, St. John Chrisostom, St. Gregory the Theologian  - they all made required introductory definitions and made appropriate titles of their  works. One needs not to know Plato's teaching to understand the refutals offered by those Holy Fathers against platonists' teachings.

Yet, understanding them and reading them is just excercising our talents, and those more knowleadgable about it are not closer to salvation compared with those who don't for their talents are something else.

Holly Fathers haven't made their works about notions that can be studied by reason mystified. They are all clear. All one needs to study them is time and concentration. And their conclusions are like rocks, sound and clear to both a phylosophy doctor or a carpenter. The only prerequisite is knowledge that one can obtain by attending and listening Church services for some time, where our theology is sung.

Though I've heard arguments that, for instance, one can't understand St. Theodor the Studite so easily, or some other Saints, I can't affirm it - I haven't read them so extensivelly to remember.

Not so with so called "academic" teachers, and, to my impression (that I already explained several times until now) one could easily count Metr. Zlizloiulas among such "academic" teachers. Perhaps there is an explanation for such an approach, but I don't need it. Let those who study his teaching explain it to themselves and let them produce good fruits, so they can prove I misunderstood them. For we know them by their fruits.
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« Reply #244 on: March 30, 2008, 05:15:12 PM »

Brothers Peter the Aleut and Serb1389 raised important questions, to which Sophia1925 may have already answered in part. I'll try it too, but words are often lost in internet conversation, and, also, I'm not feeling too well these days, so that affects my limited abilities to respond.

First we should make a distinction regarding education.

Education is not an attribute (a properties) that moves us closer to God. It doesn't affect our salvation. More educated, or those with high IQ are not closer to God compared to less educated pr those with not so high IQ. It is God's grace that matters. Although we all differ regarding our attributes and properties - talents, education, reason, will, knowledge, etc, the cross each one of us is carrying is just appropriate and fitting to our person. Have no doubt about it!

I don't know if this applies as an absolute.  Education in the Scripture can indeed move us closer to God.  Education in the Fathers can do so as well. You hit the nail on the head when you said the Fathers were amongst the most educated - and they applied their talent to benefit others' salvation.  We should also do the same, those who are called to be highly educated.  Education was an understood part of life in the days of the Fathers - the Empire was renowned for its educated laity, and it was this educated laity which was able to understand and reject the Council of Florence, and it was this educated laity that was able to create and design things still being used to day (the organ, eating utencils iirc, etc.).

Yes, Education to its own end, or education for personal glory may not assist one in their salvation.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath-water (or, as one professor kept saying, "the baby water") and say that Education is completely divorced from the path to salvation - it can't be divorced from it any more than family life is divorced from it, or work life is divorced from it, etc.
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« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2008, 05:40:15 PM »

I don't know if this applies as an absolute.  Education in the Scripture can indeed move us closer to God.  Education in the Fathers can do so as well. You hit the nail on the head when you said the Fathers were amongst the most educated - and they applied their talent to benefit others' salvation.  We should also do the same, those who are called to be highly educated.  Education was an understood part of life in the days of the Fathers - the Empire was renowned for its educated laity, and it was this educated laity which was able to understand and reject the Council of Florence, and it was this educated laity that was able to create and design things still being used to day (the organ, eating utencils iirc, etc.).

Yes, Education to its own end, or education for personal glory may not assist one in their salvation.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath-water (or, as one professor kept saying, "the baby water") and say that Education is completely divorced from the path to salvation - it can't be divorced from it any more than family life is divorced from it, or work life is divorced from it, etc.

True.

But just do not forget - fitting cross pertains.

Educationa and IQ are just one of the talents.

Some are educated. Some are strong in prayers. Some are meek. Some have other virtues.

Fitting cross pertains in all cases.
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« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2008, 07:54:53 PM »

Holy Fathers very, very simple but devil blinds eyes so they cant understand and God does not give Grace to proud acedemics to see what is written but only to humble monks and confessors.
So you think an academic use of the intellect is solely of the devil?
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« Reply #247 on: March 30, 2008, 07:57:37 PM »

Holy Fathers very, very simple but devil blinds eyes so they cant understand and God does not give Grace to proud acedemics to see what is written but only to humble monks and confessors.



I find it interesting, in fact ground breaking, that you have figured out how God dispenses grace, a concept that the selfsame fathers we are talking about did not figure out.  I highly recommend that you flush this idea out, write a dissertation, and fill the gaps that the fathers handled with apophatic language.  There are just some things that we do not know friend...
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« Reply #248 on: March 30, 2008, 08:04:52 PM »

Brothers Peter the Aleut and Serb1389 raised important questions, to which Sophia1925 may have already answered in part. I'll try it too, but words are often lost in internet conversation, and, also, I'm not feeling too well these days, so that affects my limited abilities to respond.

First we should make a distinction regarding education.

Education is not an attribute (a properties) that moves us closer to God. It doesn't affect our salvation. More educated, or those with high IQ are not closer to God compared to less educated pr those with not so high IQ. It is God's grace that matters. Although we all differ regarding our attributes and properties - talents, education, reason, will, knowledge, etc, the cross each one of us is carrying is just appropriate and fitting to our person. Have no doubt about it!

Though mentioned Holy Fathers are among the most educated and most intelligent of their time (and perhaps of all times), they just used their talent to systematize the teaching and to deliver it to us. They did it in the fashion apt to make the teaching easily understandable to each one of us willing to dedicate some time and concentration to read their writings.

But there is no misunderstanding in reading St. Ireneos of Lyons, St. Athanasios the Great, St. John of Damascus, St. John Chrisostom, St. Gregory the Theologian  - they all made required introductory definitions and made appropriate titles of their  works. One needs not to know Plato's teaching to understand the refutals offered by those Holy Fathers against platonists' teachings.

Yet, understanding them and reading them is just excercising our talents, and those more knowleadgable about it are not closer to salvation compared with those who don't for their talents are something else.

Holly Fathers haven't made their works about notions that can be studied by reason mystified. They are all clear. All one needs to study them is time and concentration. And their conclusions are like rocks, sound and clear to both a phylosophy doctor or a carpenter. The only prerequisite is knowledge that one can obtain by attending and listening Church services for some time, where our theology is sung.

Though I've heard arguments that, for instance, one can't understand St. Theodor the Studite so easily, or some other Saints, I can't affirm it - I haven't read them so extensivelly to remember.

Not so with so called "academic" teachers, and, to my impression (that I already explained several times until now) one could easily count Metr. Zlizloiulas among such "academic" teachers. Perhaps there is an explanation for such an approach, but I don't need it. Let those who study his teaching explain it to themselves and let them produce good fruits, so they can prove I misunderstood them. For we know them by their fruits.

I honestly do not have the time nor energy to tackle this point by point. 

I would only say that I have met people who never had a formal education regarding the fathers and some of these seminal texts regarding orthodox theology.  Even though they themselves had "delved" into the texts, read them, etc.  They COMPLETELY missed many of the key ideas, foundational to our faith, and to who this father is.  Things such as historical context, putting the father into context with earlier or later theology, etc.  were missing from their thoughts, as well as how they utilized what they had read. 

Reading a church father in the context of a class, where your words, thoughts, and how you use the father are scrutinized by 30 other people, including a professor who has dedicated their life to the study of all the fathers, is a completely different and in some ways more expansive or full understanding of that father and how his theology is used and handled. 

I agree that if you read the fathers you can form your own opinions about theology, and be extremely well versed in patristic thought, and even be able to present extremely interesting ideas from these fathers, as some of the people on this sight are even able to do. 

However, these selfsame people do not temper their thoughts, because they are not trained to do so, but rather take the theology they have learned ON THEIR OWN, and then say that they understand what the fathers say, having no barometer with which to actually gauge their knowledge.  This I believe is the height of arrogance.  Not that academics are all that humble either, but I think the system provides good opportunity for people to be more expansive in their thinking, and etc. 

Sorry i'm having a hard time expressing myself tonight.  I hope you got my point. 
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« Reply #249 on: March 30, 2008, 08:25:48 PM »

I honestly do not have the time nor energy to tackle this point by point. 

I would only say that I have met people who never had a formal education regarding the fathers and some of these seminal texts regarding orthodox theology.  Even though they themselves had "delved" into the texts, read them, etc.  They COMPLETELY missed many of the key ideas, foundational to our faith, and to who this father is.  Things such as historical context, putting the father into context with earlier or later theology, etc.  were missing from their thoughts, as well as how they utilized what they had read. 

Reading a church father in the context of a class, where your words, thoughts, and how you use the father are scrutinized by 30 other people, including a professor who has dedicated their life to the study of all the fathers, is a completely different and in some ways more expansive or full understanding of that father and how his theology is used and handled. 

I agree that if you read the fathers you can form your own opinions about theology, and be extremely well versed in patristic thought, and even be able to present extremely interesting ideas from these fathers, as some of the people on this sight are even able to do. 

However, these selfsame people do not temper their thoughts, because they are not trained to do so, but rather take the theology they have learned ON THEIR OWN, and then say that they understand what the fathers say, having no barometer with which to actually gauge their knowledge.  This I believe is the height of arrogance.  Not that academics are all that humble either, but I think the system provides good opportunity for people to be more expansive in their thinking, and etc. 

Sorry i'm having a hard time expressing myself tonight.  I hope you got my point.  

I would add that even in a non-school environment it is expected that we gain an education:  even in a monastery, if the monk is not a graduate of a theology program, he will still be reading the Fathers and the scripture under the tutelage of his Elder, learning from the Elder how to interpret them, what gems to draw from them, etc.  So even in these situations one finds a crucial aspect of education about the Faith.
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« Reply #250 on: March 31, 2008, 05:50:47 AM »

I don't deny the importance of proper guidance in studing.

The problem is how to determine what "proper" is.

We are all faillable, we do erring in no minute. Therefore we don't take one of the Holy Fathers of his own, than seek patristic consensus. In their works we find answers to fundamental questions of our Faith. The entirety of their works, to the extent I was able to read and understand, is in harmony with each other and founded in the Holy Bible. That harmony enables us to look for the answers about good and evil, about revelation of God to the extent needed for our salvation, about advice how to live properly. Everything needed is there and no superflous teachings are found.

But all these teaching are just an auxilliary means for our salvation. These are items of advice, aimed at helping us answer fundamental questions we face.

I have other impression about the work of Metr. Zlizloulas. There are answers there to questions I found not so fundamental, reasoned a bit differently from the Holy Fathers that already answered them.

"Being in communion" - we can read some impressions about it on this thread, but what questions that work answers? Perhaps I misunderstand it, but it's apparently I'm not the only one if that is true. If that's so, what's that what that work is aimed for?
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« Reply #251 on: March 31, 2008, 07:09:08 AM »

I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.  I think both approaches are potentially valid, I just neither have the time nor energy to look at it further. 

IN terms of Met. Zizioulas, your statements were very confusing, so i'm not sure what you were trying to get accross.  I would only say that I agree with you when you say that he complicates things that have already been laid out by the fathers, which I definitely also find problematic. 

Anyway, like I said, it was really difficult to understand what you were writing (saying), so until I can clear that up, or you can clear it up for me, I'm gona wait "in the shadows"  Wink
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« Reply #252 on: April 01, 2008, 03:53:39 AM »


IN terms of Met. Zizioulas, your statements were very confusing, so i'm not sure what you were trying to get accross.

Well, I haven't tried to produce a sound theological critic of his works, because:

1) It would require comprehensive study of his work, something I said I wouldn't do

2) Such an atempt of critic wouldn't be good, since I'm not a theologian

3) It would take me to the position to teach, something I have no capacity for, and it would take me to oppose a Metropolitan of a "local" Church where I'm not one of the flock

I think I'm joining you "in the shadows".
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« Reply #253 on: April 01, 2008, 04:28:19 PM »

Well, I haven't tried to produce a sound theological critic of his works, because:

1) It would require comprehensive study of his work, something I said I wouldn't do

2) Such an atempt of critic wouldn't be good, since I'm not a theologian

3) It would take me to the position to teach, something I have no capacity for, and it would take me to oppose a Metropolitan of a "local" Church where I'm not one of the flock



I thought you said that academic orthodoxy didn't exist... Wink  so why are you worried about being a theologian Wink Grin

I resonate with you my friend.  It is good to remain humble.  See below: 
Quote
I think I'm joining you "in the shadows".

That's too bad, it was just getting exciting!  lol.  I agree...I definitely need some more time to think and ponder upon this whole thing.  Thanks for the conversation thus far. 

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« Reply #254 on: April 04, 2008, 08:04:11 AM »

I find it interesting, in fact ground breaking, that you have figured out how God dispenses grace, a concept that the selfsame fathers we are talking about did not figure out.  I highly recommend that you flush this idea out, write a dissertation, and fill the gaps that the fathers handled with apophatic language.  There are just some things that we do not know friend...

St Pauls says God gives His Grace to humble and resists proud...But I think maybe you think you know more than St Paul?

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« Reply #255 on: April 04, 2008, 08:05:11 AM »

So you think an academic use of the intellect is solely of the devil?

No

But use of academic intellect by OCA and same maybe solely of devil.
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« Reply #256 on: April 04, 2008, 09:26:33 AM »

St Pauls says God gives His Grace to humble and resists proud...But I think maybe you think you know more than St Paul?



God is also unknowable, according to the apophatic theology of the church.  So, how does that resinate with direct statements such as the one you provided? 

Also, who are we to say who is humble and who is proud?  You provided in your example that monks (for example) are humble.  How do you know?  I agree generally with the statement above, because; obviously St. Paul helps us understand where God gives His grace.  However, you said in particular who gets grace, monks.  St. Paul never said that.  Unless I missed something in my readings of scripture....
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« Reply #257 on: April 04, 2008, 09:31:43 AM »

No

But use of academic intellect by OCA and same maybe solely of devil.

Sophia, welcome to the site! 

Could you help me by substantiating any of this?  It is generally not good to make such blank statements as this.  Not only is it difficult to understand them, because of issues with having "internet" conversations, but also it is easy sometimes for individuals to take things the wrong way.  SO the more you write the better it is! 

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« Reply #258 on: April 06, 2008, 10:50:05 PM »

No

But use of academic intellect by OCA and same maybe solely of devil.

Sophia, welcome to the site! 

Could you help me by substantiating any of this?  It is generally not good to make such blank statements as this.  Not only is it difficult to understand them, because of issues with having "internet" conversations, but also it is easy sometimes for individuals to take things the wrong way.  SO the more you write the better it is!
Not to mention that your post, Sophia, may even be considered an ad hominem.
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« Reply #259 on: April 07, 2008, 09:36:51 PM »

Not to mention that your post, Sophia, may even be considered an ad hominem.

Yup.  It's very close, if it's not already there by a mile.
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« Reply #260 on: April 08, 2008, 07:33:58 AM »

This is why I am asking the question.  I know how polemic I can be, and I know i'd appreciate an opportunity to explain myself.  So just offering the proverbial "hand"... Wink Grin
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« Reply #261 on: February 19, 2013, 05:54:51 PM »

I have just written two blog articles on Met John Zizioulas, for those who might be interested in learning more about his theology of the Holy Trinity:

The Importance of the Monarchy of the Father

On the Divine Processions
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« Reply #262 on: August 06, 2013, 03:48:45 PM »

Met John Zizioulas:  The Most Interesting Theologian in the World

Enjoy!
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« Reply #263 on: August 06, 2013, 07:40:58 PM »


This blog post, along with the links in your comment below it, is the inspiration of my current signature  angel
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« Reply #264 on: August 06, 2013, 08:35:34 PM »

First thought when I saw this thread in the "Recent Posts" section on the front page: I didn't think we celebrated miraculous Resurrections until Pascha! (Kidding!)
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« Reply #265 on: August 06, 2013, 08:47:27 PM »


This blog post, along with the links in your comment below it, is the inspiration of my current signature  angel

Maybe: "are the inspiration for my current signature"  Angry
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