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Author Topic: Ack! Urgent help needed!  (Read 1743 times) Average Rating: 0
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Simayan
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« on: March 08, 2008, 06:57:20 PM »

I'm scheduled to do the reading tomorrow while the Bishop is at our parish, but I've noticed conflicting sources as to which passage I'm supposed to read. The GoArch website says that on March 9th we read St. Paul's Letter to the Hebrews 12:1-10. However, the Liturgy book from my church says that on Cheesefare Sunday we read Paul's Letter to the Romans 13:11-14/14:1-4.

Does anybody know the answer?
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 07:01:53 PM »

You read both.
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 07:03:57 PM »

According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate the answer is Hebrews 12:1-10, in honor of the 40 martyrs of Sebaste.  Normally when you have a double-commemoration (Cheesefare & 40 Martyrs), the "lesser" one gets the Epistle and the "greater" one gets the gospel (as is the case today).
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 08:57:55 PM »

According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate the answer is Hebrews 12:1-10, in honor of the 40 martyrs of Sebaste.  Normally when you have a double-commemoration (Cheesefare & 40 Martyrs), the "lesser" one gets the Epistle and the "greater" one gets the gospel (as is the case today).

Is that different than the Slavic tradition?  I'm used to reading two Epistles when there's a double commemoration.
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 10:37:05 PM »

Cleveland's Reply #2, is, of course, correct.  In the future, I recommend checking the "Kanonion" which is in the "On-Line Chapel" part of the "goarch" web site.  It is issued by the Patriarchate, which is infallible, I mean, always right. 

My priest and I post the Kanonion in our sacristy for reference.  I suggest, if anyone chants with you during Orthros, in your priest's presence, ask the bishop to confirm the reading, which Cleveland advises of above.  Or, ask your priest before the Orthros starts, to ask the bishop during Orthros, just to confirm the opinion.  Typically, bishops appreciate that type of deference to them, as celebrant.

And, yes, Veniamin, Reply#3, to my knowledge, the Slavic tradition does read two epistles.  The Liturgical Assistant in my Greek Orthodox Archdiocese parish, is a priest on-loan to us from the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, and he has advised me that his jurisdiction would read two epistle readings on a day such as this.
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 11:46:26 PM »

Exactly, Slavic traditions provides (2) readings in such cases.
Cleveland's Reply #2, is, of course, correct.  In the future, I recommend checking the "Kanonion" which is in the "On-Line Chapel" part of the "goarch" web site. 
I suggest, if anyone chants with you during Orthros, in your priest's presence, ask the bishop to confirm the reading, which Cleveland advises of above.  Or, ask your priest before the Orthros starts, to ask the bishop during Orthros, just to confirm the opinion.  Typically, bishops appreciate that type of deference to them, as celebrant.


I concur.
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2008, 12:56:17 PM »

Is that different than the Slavic tradition?  I'm used to reading two Epistles when there's a double commemoration.

In the Greek tradition we don't do double-readings.  Instead, you'll find what I described above, where the Epistle reading will be for one feast, and the gospel for another.  This will be common if a semi-major saint's feast falls on a "regular" Sunday - the Epistle will be for the Saint, the Gospel for the Sunday.  Obviously, the exception is with the major feasts of the Church.
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 05:28:25 PM »

Everything went well - we used the Letter to the Hebrews. However, the Gospel for the week was read instead of Romans (which wasn't done at all).

Metropolitan Methodios certainly has a sense of humor, though. "The Lipitor makes me forget everything!"
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 05:29:44 PM by Simayan » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 05:48:13 PM »

Everything went well - we used the Letter to the Hebrews. However, the Gospel for the week was read instead of Romans (which wasn't done at all).

Well, Romans would never replace a Gospel reading, so that's good.  Metropolitan Methodios is normally a liturgical stickler.

Metropolitan Methodios certainly has a sense of humor, though. "The Lipitor makes me forget everything!" 

Lol.  Sometimes he shows his sense of humor, and it's great.
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 11:03:21 PM »

According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate the answer is Hebrews 12:1-10, in honor of the 40 martyrs of Sebaste.  Normally when you have a double-commemoration (Cheesefare & 40 Martyrs), the "lesser" one gets the Epistle and the "greater" one gets the gospel (as is the case today).

I've never heard of this but I'll mention it to the protopsaltis for the see since he puts out all of the typicon notes.  Though the Hebrews reading was published in the bulletin, the reader read from Romans.  Since we Antiochians normally follow the Greek typicon, I'm all the more confused.
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 11:40:11 PM »

I've never heard of this but I'll mention it to the protopsaltis for the see since he puts out all of the typicon notes.  Though the Hebrews reading was published in the bulletin, the reader read from Romans.  Since we Antiochians normally follow the Greek typicon, I'm all the more confused.

My comment was a general note, based on my observation of what the Typikon of the Great Church calls for.  If one follows Constantinople's Typikon, then Hebrews was it...

http://www.ec-patr.org/gr/typikon/2008/2008-03-09.htm
(I'll include the English equivalent below)

Ἀπόστολος: Τῶν Ἁγίων «Τοσοῦτον ἔχοντες προκείμενον...» (Ἑβρ. ιβ´ 1-10).
Epistle: Of the Saints "Since we are surrounded..." (Heb 12: 1-10)

Εὐαγγέλιον: Κυριακῆς Τυρινῆς «Ἐὰν ἀφῆτε τοῖς ἀνθρώποις...» (Ματθ. ς´ 14-21).
Gospel: of Sunday of Cheesfare "If you forgive men..." (Matt 6:14-21)

Now, of course, the 40 Martyrs of Sebaste is a pretty major saint-day in the Greek Tradition; their feastday, when it falls during lent, always is accompanied by a Presanctified Liturgy (unless it falls on a Saturday, when it is celebrated with a Divine Liturgy).  But it does accurately demonstrate the guiding principle: that when you have a sizable commemoration, but one that is still lesser than the Sunday, then the Saint is honored with the Epistle reading, while the major feast (in this case a Sunday, which is Major except when overlapping with a Feast of the Lord) is honored through the Gospel reading.

In the Greek tradition there is no double-Epistle, just as there is no double-Gospel, during Divine Liturgy - one reading each, one lesson each.
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