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Author Topic: Joe Zollars: RC again  (Read 2009 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« on: August 08, 2003, 03:46:21 PM »

Dear Forum Participants,

On Nik's forum (Euphrosynoscafe.com) Joe Zollars has revealed that he has returned to Tridentine Catholicism and that he now "knows" that the Tridentine Mass "more closely reflects the theology of the Gospels" than the Orthodox Divine Liturgy!

I do not post this in any way to disparage Mr. Zollars, and will not allow anyone to post anything negative about him since he no longer posts here.  However, that being said, the reason I post this is to let everyone know that this is what Serge, I, and others were trying to tell Mr. Zollars--namely that he was into Orthodoxy for the wrong reasons, and that Serge's prediction that Zollars would end up RC again ultimately came true.

Now I also am not posting this to say "I told you so" but rather because I want to encourage our forum participants--especially those with a "let's convert them at any cost" attitude to reflect on the affair of Mr. Zollars and realize that we need to be very sensitive when someone approaches Orthodoxy **solely** because he is mad at something in his former religion (Mr. Zollars had only attended one weekend of Orthodox services ever, and that was AFTER he announced his conversion).

Let us all pray for Mr. Zollars as well--that he will indeed one day accept the Orthodox faith, and that he will be able to leave the situation that has him very depressed at the current time.

If I have misrepresented anything about Mr. Zollars, I assure you it is an accident, and I would appreciate it if he would chime in if he still lurks here, or if anyone else would convey such corrections.

anastasios
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2003, 04:00:55 PM »

Quote
especially those with a "let's convert them at any cost" attitude

I don't recall anyone having such an attitude? What I do recall is telling Joe to take his time and be cautious and make sure that he was converting for the right reasons. My wife converted for what I think are somewhat bad reasons, I'm not one who would allow others to convert for similarly poor reasons. However,  when I had the audacity to say that I thought Serge and others were wrong in the stance that they were taking, I was made into a straw man and was attacked based on what I supposedly said. You were right, I was wrong: Joe wasn't ready to convert; I admit it, Joe had me fooled, though he had himself fooled as well--perhaps my failure is similar to that of Saint Gregory the Theologian's, when he trusted Maximus the Cynic... I just trusted him too much, I should have been more cautious. However, I still maintain that those who had a "wait and see, and just stay Catholic for now" type of attitude were wrong. Certainly they were wrong for attacking me for daring to disagree when all I was doing was trying to take a sensible, centrist position in the whole thing. If I deserved to be attacked, it would have been for being a fool--for not having the discernment to see the reality of the situation. But this is not what I was attacked for, and I hope that those who did attack me reflect on the sad affair of Mr. Zollars themselves.

EDIT--perhaps it was my fault, actually. Had I said some of this back then, some people might not have carried with them through the months the notion that people were trying to "convert Joe at any cost".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2003, 04:15:26 PM by Paradosis » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2003, 04:33:03 PM »

I am glad that Joe has finally made a decision as to which way to go.

Having said that I feel he is still looking for that 'something'.

His journey may not yet be over and I personally hope that he finds his 'home' sooner rather than later.

I will keep him in my prayers.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2003, 04:33:30 PM by the slave » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2003, 05:15:49 PM »

My only comment on Joe Zollars himself is that there is an element of prediction in his very first posts here.

More to the point is my own situation, which has a strong similarity to Joe's when he first came here. I've complained for a long time that the liberals in my church were acting at the direction of the world, without spiritual consideration. Even liberals were saying this. And yet this is what prevailed at GC.

I get the sense that a lot of people expected that I should throw in the towel and find the closest Orthodox priest. Or maybe the closest traditionalist Catholic priest.

I can tell you what the Catholic answer would be: that I should not convert to Catholicism if I had strong objections (or even serious enough reservations). That is the answer of casuistry. And I do have big problems-- never mind the typically lousy liturgy.

My problems with Orthodoxy are more complex and I don't want to introduce them in this thread. Suffice it to say that I do have them. I can respect the Orthodox churches as being in The Church, and I can pray with them and could commune if it were allowed. But at this point transferring my allegiance raises issues which I cannot as of now resolve in Orthodoxy's favor.

This talk of "the wrong reasons to convert" is puzzling. What is wrong with whatever reason brings someone into the church?
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2003, 05:38:20 PM »

Justin--

You were NOT the person I was referencing when I wrote the above.

anastasios
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2003, 06:03:46 PM »

Greetings to all, especially David!  This is my first post, although I have been reading things on this discussion board for a few months now.  Concerning "right" and "wrong" reasons to convert to Orthodoxy, I pose the following question:  Is the potential convert running AWAY from something or running TO something?  For the convert who is convinced that Orthodoxy is the Church, the very Ark of Salvation, nothing will keep him from the Church.  It doesn't matter if he encounters indifferent priests who tell him to return to Protestantisn, an exclusive ethnic feeling, an unknown foreign language etc.  If such a person is convinced in his heart that the Orthodox Church was founded by Jesus Christ and that he needs to be in it to work out his salvation, such a one will become Orthodox and he'll most probably stick with it too.
However, if someone becomes Orthodox because he is running away from something and thinks Orthodoxy is a safe haven in which he'll never have to fight any battles or be faced with something that irritates him, I think he'll be sadly mistaken and probably lapse or drop out altogether.  If one becomes Orthodox simply because of say "modern language" in the Book of Common Prayer, or being enamored with Byzantine art, or a love of a cappella music, or the fun of the local Greek festival, or the desire to re-create 19th century Tsarist Russia in his own mind or a host of other reasons, I think he's setting himself up for a great disappointment and an even greater fall.  
I am reminded of what I once heard a wise Greek Orthodox priest say about converts:  Attend this parish for AT LEAST A YEAR FIRST.  Let the incense and the icons wear off. Then, if you still want to become Orthodox, we can talk. Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2003, 06:43:43 PM »



This talk of "the wrong reasons to convert" is puzzling. What is wrong with whatever reason brings someone into the church?


Because as you just said, one must actually believe the faith to join it.

And because if one joins it impetuously, they will fall away.

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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2003, 07:48:11 PM »

This all has me a little worried because I probably did convert to Orthodoxy for the "wrong" reasons.  I was mad at my old Protestant church.  It was a little deeper than that;  I felt (and still feel) that their bad theology produced the bad results.  But I did definitely run from that church into the welcoming arms of Orthodoxy. I had scarely been visiting my Orthodox Church for a few months when Father suggested I be chrismated right away, since I had made up my mind.  I am overjoyed to be Orthodox and can't see my self leaving,  but you've got me concerned that I might not stay the course.  Please pray for me.

-Xenia
« Last Edit: August 08, 2003, 07:48:43 PM by Xenia » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2003, 08:49:12 PM »

Well you have my prayers but you do not exhibit the same qualities as Mr. Zollars.  Mr. Zollars was a very strong Catholic apologist who suddenly out of the blue decided to become Orthodox but didn't even understand the rudimentary basics of Orthodoxy.  You had a priest to guide you; he did not.

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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2003, 10:27:05 PM »

Hey this thread explains the burning sensations in my ears.  Smiley

Yes I was wrong to have gone to the Orthodox.  And I apologize to Serge, Anastasios and others for the pain I caused.  

In retrospect the only reason I ever even thought about converting is I believed the local Novus Ordo "catholic" "bishop" for his apostasy from the faith, of course being Novus Ordo did he ever even have the faith?  He required standing for Communion and indicated that Communion in the Hand was to be the "Norm" (maybe for his satanic cult but not the Catholic Church).  Obviously I would never in an Orthodox Church be forced to recieve Communion in the Hand, but standing is the required norm in Orthodoxy.  

After having seen Orthodoxy, I can say that I could never convert, not in a million years.  my reasons were explained at the cafe and are otherwise my own business.

How could I have thought I could leave the Immemorial Latin Mass, the Rosary, and Adoration behind.............

Blessings!  My email is joe_zollars@yahoo.com if anyone needs to contact me, but my confessor has advised that I stay away from non-tradCatholic forums and to stay away from those as much as possible.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2003, 10:34:38 PM »

Thanks for chiming in, Joe.  Since you will not be checking in any more I will close the thread.  Any issues raised by others can be addressed in other threads.

anastasios
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