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Offline sinjinsmythe

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Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« on: June 15, 2003, 02:04:26 PM »
Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
U.S. Conference disavows report critical of 'Passion' movie

Posted: June 15, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Ron Strom
-¬ 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

The U.S. Conference of Bishops has issued a statement refuting press reports that the organization was involved in developing a report that charged Mel Gibson with anti-Semitism in his portrayal of Christ's crucifixion in his film "The Passion."

As WorldNetDaily reported, earlier this week the Melbourne Herald Sun reported Gibson, a Catholic, had threatened lawsuits against both the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League over the issue.

The Bishops' organization, however, says the report was created by "an independent group of scholars critiquing" the film's script.

"Neither the Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, nor any other committee of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, established this group or authorized, reviewed or approved the report written by its members. The Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs knew only that the scholars' group intended to offer comments for the private consideration of the producers," the statement said.

The Zenit news service had published a story saying the Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs had published the report.

The report is critical of Gibson's film portrayal of Jewish complicity in the execution of Christ.

A column by the Rev. Charles J. Chaput, archbishop of Denver, defends the film, which presents the last 12 hours of Christ's life and whose dialogue is entirely in Latin and Aramaic.

"I find it puzzling and disturbing that anyone would feel licensed to attack a film of sincere faith before it has even been released," wrote Chaput.

The archbishop says the criticism of Gibson "seems based on an earlier, working draft of the script that Gibson says was stolen and leaked; in other words, an inaccurate text that was acquired - to put it politely - by unauthorized means."

Monsignor Franics Maniscalco told WorldNetDaily the Conference of Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs did not commission or approve the report.

"It was simply the work of those scholars" who drafted it, he said.

That fact, however, did not stop a member of the group of scholars from using the conference's name in defending the critique.

According to the Herald Sun report, Sister Mary Boys, professor of practical theology at Union Theological Seminary in New York, said, "The Anti-Defamation League and U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops reviewed the script and we wrote a report that was sent to Mr. Gibson's company.

"We have concerns about the role of Jews in the movie and we were hoping to get some changes. Mr. Gibson's company has retaliated by threatening a lawsuit."

As WorldNetDaily reported, Gibson has lashed out against those he says were planning to "dig up dirt" on him and his family.

"Whenever you take up a subject like [Christ's crucifixion] it does bring out a lot of enemies," he said. His private life, his banking records, charities he supports, friends, business associates and family members have all undergone scrutiny in the investigation, he told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly in January.

"I'm a big boy," said Gibson. "I can take care of myself, but when you start messing around with my 85-year-old father, watch out," referring to attempts to scrutinize the beliefs of the actor's father, Hutton Gibson.

The elder Gibson has been quoted in media reports saying the Holocaust never happened and the World Trade Center was destroyed by remote control, according to the Melbourne paper.


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Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2003, 04:16:57 PM »
I don't understand liberals, the Jews voted for His death and the Romans carried it out per the vote, what else is there?

I am looking forward to this film and anticipate it will be a classic.

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Offline sinjinsmythe

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Gibson's Jesus Pic Faces More Anti-Semitism Charges
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2003, 02:25:34 PM »
Gibson's Jesus Pic Faces More Anti-Semitism Charges
Reuters
Wednesday, June 25, 2003; 3:39 AM

By Gregg Kilday

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Continuing to raise concerns over "The Passion," the Mel Gibson-directed film about the last days of Jesus Christ, the Anti-Defamation League of America (ADL) charged Tuesday that, based on a study of an early version of the screenplay, the project could be "replete with objectionable elements that would promote anti-Semitism."

The ADL embraced the findings of an interfaith committee of scholars that has raised objections to the unreleased film -- even though the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has distanced itself from the same group.

In its statement, the ADL contended that Gibson and his collaborators "must complement their artistic vision with sound scholarship, which includes knowledge of how the passion accounts have been used historically to disparage and attack Jews and Judaism. Absent such scholarly and theological understanding, productions such as 'The Passion' could likely falsify history and fuel the animus of those who hate Jews."

"To be certain, neither I nor my film are anti-Semitic," Gibson said in a previously released statement, which his spokesman provided in response to the latest allegation.

"Nor do I hate anybody -- certainly not the Jews," continued Gibson, who is a devout Catholic. "They are my friends and associates, both in my work and social life. Thankfully, treasured friendships forged over decades are not easily shaken by nasty innuendo. Anti-Semitism is not only contrary to my personal beliefs, it is also contrary to the core message of my movie."

Gibson directed "The Passion," which he also co-wrote and produced through his Icon Entertainment banner, in Italy earlier this year. Filmed in Aramaic and Latin, the project stars James Caviezel as Christ and has not yet been shown to potential distributors.

The ADL first began to raise concerns about the film in March, in both a letter to the New York Times and a letter addressed to Gibson that the organization posted on its Web site.

The controversy erupted again earlier this month when a report was leaked to the media that had been prepared by scholars, associated with both the ADL and the USCCB, based on a study of an early version of the script and containing a long list of objections.

The USCCB, however, quickly dissociated itself from the report, with Mark Chopko, general counsel for the USCCB, saying: "We regret the situation has occurred and offer our apologies. ... When the film is released, the USCCB will review it at the time."

In its current statement, the ADL says it "fully stands behind" the scholars' report and raises a series of questions such as, "Will the final version of 'The Passion' continue to portray Jews as bloodthirsty, sadistic and money-hungry enemies of Jesus?"

Myrna Shinbaum, a spokesperson for the ADL, said the group issued its first official public statement on the subject Tuesday in response to repeated press inquiries.

"When these kind of issues are raised and we feel concern, we speak out even before the film has been made," she said, acknowledging that the concerns are based on an early version of the screenplay. "We haven't seen it yet, so we can't speak to the film itself.

"In expressing our concerns," Shinbaum added, "we hope we can have a dialogue with Gibson and Icon to allay the fears of the Jewish community."

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter



I wonder what the evangelicals think of this dispute, especially the ardent supporters of the Jews.
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Offline TomS

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2003, 02:33:34 PM »
Baaah!

Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2003, 02:36:42 PM »
Next up, the ACLU because there are no blacks, hispanics, asians or gays in the film.

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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2003, 03:25:13 PM »
Hey maybe the Atheists will sue since Jesus is portrayed as God, and maybe the Muslims will sue since the film does not show Isa (Jesus) being stolen away by Allah instead of crucified! ;-)
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Offline Frobie

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2003, 03:54:13 PM »
I find it funny that the U.S. Catholic bishops at first spoke out against the movie, but have since seen reason. Does anyone know if they ever spoke out against such anti-Catholic movies as Stigmata and Dogma? Or everybody's new classic, The Crime of Padre Amaro? I would be interested to know.

Matt

Offline Columcille

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2003, 07:19:12 PM »
June 26, 2003
'I Saw the Passion'
Posted by Lew Rockwell at June 26, 2003 02:33 PM

John Zmirak writes: "In case you were wondering what the film will be like..."

I SAW THE PASSION
By Barbara Nicolosi

So I was at a private screening at Icon Productions yesterday, and got to see a rough cut of The Passion. There were about twelve people in the room, ncluding Mel Gibson, his producing partner Steve and four or five other Icon staffers. After the screening, we talked to Mel and friends for about an hour. (As cool as that was, the quality of the film was such that the celebrity stuff was completely gone from the moment. I can't explain it really, except that it would be like standing in the Sistine Chapel next to, well, someone like Mel Gibson. Great art is a great leveler....) The rough cut we saw obviously didn't have the final score or special effects, and there were many more sub-titles than they will have in the finished film.

So, here's my take...


The Passion is a stunning work of art. It is a devout, act of worship from Mel and his collaborators - in the way that Handel's Messiah and Notre Dame
were artistic acts of worship in previous times.

Let's get the controversy out of the way right at the top. The film is faithful to the Gospel, particularly St. John. It is no more anti-Semitic than is the Gospel.

Having seen the film now, I can only marvel that the attacks are pretty much demonic. Hopefully, the Devil will end up spitefully biting his own tail on this one-- as he does in The Passion by inciting on the executioners of Christ, and thus being complicit in his own ultimate defeat. The Passion is high art. It is the greatest movie about Jesus ever made. In the discussion following the film, Mel and co. were asking us how mainstream theater audiences would react to the film. I told them, "Who cares? What you have here is so much more than just a product to sell. It will live forever, regardless of whether it is a commercial success for you or not."

For those of us who love Jesus, The Passion is devastating to watch. It is so good, I almost couldn't stand it. There is one moment on the way of the cross sequence, in which the whole tragedy unfolding devolves into a vicious riot of hatred between Romans and Jews with the Savior on the ground in the middle of it getting it from both sides. It was so frenzied and terrible, I wanted to run from the room. But then, the film again finds Mary, Jesus's Mother on the sidelines, and her presence gets us through it. Kind of like how Mary's presence helped Jesus get through it, it seemed to me.

The film is lovingly Marian. Mary is perfectly portrayed here. She is contrasted repeatedly with the really super creepy Satan character, who is also a woman (something for the feminist theologians here? heh heh...).

The film is strongly Eucharistic. There is a beautiful juxtaposition of images that cuts from the stripping on Calvary to the unwrapping of the bread to be used at the last Supper. Fabulous stuff.

Every Christian needs to see this film at least once. Just to remember, in our current comfort zones while evil is closing in, the price that was paid for us. On my way home from the screening, I found myself praying in the car, "Jesus, I'm so sorry, I forgot..." How many films have led you to compunction lately? The Passion is a miracle.


Personally, I can't wait to see it.
"The way of God is a daily cross.  No one has ascended into heaven through an easy life."  St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2003, 10:16:00 PM »
Thank you Columcille, I really expect this to be  a  classic, what else  would you expect from a very devout Traditional Latin.

james

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Offline uturn

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2003, 10:40:49 AM »
Give credit where credit is due:

The younger generation of traditionalist Catholics and Orthodox--those in their 20's and 30's--are trying very hard to resurrect the political movement abandoned by their spiritual mentors in Europe in 1945.

It could very well be that the American people may well associate Orthodoxy with that movement in the near future and address that issue in a typical American fashion, especially through the mass media and by local activism, including educating the American people in Orthodoxy's exotic--from an American pov-- political alliances. Of course, such revelations would assist the American people in understanding that Orthodoxy--like Falangist Catholicism--is uniquely European.



Fascinating and of interest to the dwindling remnants of American WW II veterans.

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Offline Linus7

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2003, 11:21:08 AM »
Give credit where credit is due:

The younger generation of traditionalist Catholics and Orthodox--those in their 20's and 30's--are trying very hard to resurrect the political movement abandoned by their spiritual mentors in Europe in 1945.

It could very well be that the American people may well associate Orthodoxy with that movement in the near future and address that issue in a typical American fashion, especially through the mass media and by local activism, including educating the American people in Orthodoxy's exotic--from an American pov-- political alliances. Of course, such revelations would assist the American people in understanding that Orthodoxy--like Falangist Catholicism--is uniquely European.



Fascinating and of interest to the dwindling remnants of American WW II veterans.



Sorry, but I'm scratching my head on that one and trying to figure out what it has to do with Gibson's film.

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Offline uturn

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2003, 12:18:22 PM »
Next up, the ACLU because there are no blacks, hispanics, asians or gays in the film.

james

Some Americans associate traditionalist Orthodoxy and Catholicism with anti-semitism--read: homicidal hatred of Jews--and many of your young confreres certainly--according to what they write on various traditionalist forums--leave no doubt in a reader's mind that their religion is both rooted in and a source of hate: Jesus with blood on His (sacred) hands.

In 1986-87, Holy Dormition Byzantine Catholic parish approached the Zoning Commission of the City of Ormond Beach (Fl) seeking an exemption to the local zoning of their property from residential so they could build a church on that property.

Since the commission meeting was open to the public, people in the audience were allowed to make public comments about the request for am exemption and, much to the chagrin of the members of the parish, the public certainly did speak their minds.

Jews in the audience--as well as American WW II veterans--were quick to remind the commission that the Slavic Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics were notorious and nefarious NAZI collaborators during WW II and the good people of the neighborhood had no intention of 'welcoming' NAZI sympathizers into their neighborhood.

Although the city board rejected the church's request for an exemption on technical grounds, it was obvious to all why the congregation was told to 'build down the road..oh..about 15 to 20 miles on State Road 40...in the boondocks.'

Too many of the these 'twenty and thirty something year old' right-wing traditionalists--Catholic and Orthodox-- are hate mongers, pure and simple. But Americans are experts at 'handling' these white-trash 'traditionalists.'

Not to worry.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 12:24:52 PM by uturn »
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"For this reason the holy fathers call the devil a painter...a br

Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2003, 01:57:31 PM »
 :P Hate mongers, white trash , young Catholics & Orthodox, sorry I don't agree.



james, a 50 something Traditional Catholic
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Offline Frobie

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2003, 02:19:32 PM »
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Offline Linus7

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2003, 08:43:38 PM »
Quote
Jews in the audience--as well as American WW II veterans--were quick to remind the commission that the Slavic Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics were notorious and nefarious NAZI collaborators during WW II and the good people of the neighborhood had no intention of 'welcoming' NAZI sympathizers into their neighborhood.

That makes NO sense.

What, no more Byzantine Catholic churches in America because some calling themselves Byzantine Catholics were no good?

If perfection of all members is the standard, there won't be any more synagogues either.

When did either the Orthodox Church or the Roman Catholic Church endorse Anti-Semitism as dogma or practice? And when did Byzantine Catholics become "Nazi sympathizers"?

If some persons who called themselves Orthodox or RC, or were part of a larger culture that was Orthodox or RC, were guilty of crimes against Jews, that is their individual responsibility. Both the RCC and the Orthodox Church would condemn such activities.

The whole reference is suspect to me. Why would the Jewish citizens of a Florida town bring up the "Slavic Orthodox" if what they were trying to stop was the erection of a Catholic church? Why didn't they throw in a few pokes at German Lutherans while they were at it?

Sounds bogus to me.

Again, what does this kind of *stuff* have to do with Gibson and his film?

And it all seems so authoritative. After all, we know how warmly pro-Jewish Islam is, what with its history of universal peace and love and all.  ::)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 08:50:23 PM by Linus7 »
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Offline uturn

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2003, 08:48:41 AM »
Quote
Jews in the audience--as well as American WW II veterans--were quick to remind the commission that the Slavic Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics were notorious and nefarious NAZI collaborators during WW II and the good people of the neighborhood had no intention of 'welcoming' NAZI sympathizers into their neighborhood.

That makes NO sense.

What, no more Byzantine Catholic churches in America because some calling themselves Byzantine Catholics were no good?

If perfection of all members is the standard, there won't be any more synagogues either.

When did either the Orthodox Church or the Roman Catholic Church endorse Anti-Semitism as dogma or practice? And when did Byzantine Catholics become "Nazi sympathizers"?

If some persons who called themselves Orthodox or RC, or were part of a larger culture that was Orthodox or RC, were guilty of crimes against Jews, that is their individual responsibility. Both the RCC and the Orthodox Church would condemn such activities.

The whole reference is suspect to me. Why would the Jewish citizens of a Florida town bring up the "Slavic Orthodox" if what they were trying to stop was the erection of a Catholic church? Why didn't they throw in a few pokes at German Lutherans while they were at it?

Sounds bogus to me.

Again, what does this kind of *stuff* have to do with Gibson and his film?

And it all seems so authoritative. After all, we know how warmly pro-Jewish Islam is, what with its history of universal peace and love and all.  ::)
 

I was't at the meeting to interpret the historical data for the Survivors or their families (plenty of those in Florida), nor could I be of any assistance to the Ukrainian American WW II veterans who were members of this hapless BC parish and embarrassed by the accusations. I'm just reporting the facts. And if the parish had been Lutheran? Your guess is as good as mine. But it wasn't and the Jewish residents at the meeting--many of them from Eastern Europe or the children of parents from Eastern Europe--certainly didn't manifest a high degree of admiration for Ukrainians, Belorusyns, Russians, etc. Why would they, considering they were treated like semi-humans by their Catholic and Orthodox neighbors during their sojourn in Mother Russia, Poland, Ukraine,etc.?

Regardless of your feelings of omniscience, some people just don't interpret history according to your Fundamentalist schema. You need to be reminded that these Jews are people of high intelligence and you should not attempt to compete with them or their personal interpretation of Christianity. And I agree with those Jews who can point to a plethora of facts proving that both Islam and Christianity are inherently anti-semitic, especially Orthodox Christianity. But you live in the blissful world of chronic ignorance and denial and seem to be completely ignorant of the history of your own faith. A convert's perogative.

Try to remember that you are just Orthodox and who are you to judge the thoughts of the many
Survivors who call--or have called--Florida their home, including Ormond Beach. You don't seem to know much about Florida and the fact that we have one of the largest Jewish populations outside of Israel. Don't underestimate the activism of Florida or Volusia County Jews.

Islam and Jews? I don't allow Islam--even my tongue in cheek agnostic subspecies of the thing--to form my opinion of Jews or Judaism, any more than I would allow Orthodoxy to, if that applied to my individual case.

Bottom line: Whether you like it or not, the story is true and the proof of the facts is verified by the location of the parish, which really is in the 'boonies.'

BTW: This parish--born under an evil star--just lost its second pastor in 15 years because of the practice of sexual depravity. Evidently, he  both enjoyed posing in the nude and advertising the same on his own web site, which one of his parishioners stumbled upon accidently, and to his great embarrassment.

That parish used to have a great 'Slavic Kitchen,' and an active--if elderly--congregation. Used to, that is.

Religion really is bizarre...any religion. "Thank God," for militant doubt and cynicism.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2003, 11:27:15 AM by uturn »
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"For this reason the holy fathers call the devil a painter...a br

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2003, 11:12:32 AM »
Quote
Regardless of your feelings of omniscience, some people just don't interpret history according to your Fundamentalist schema. You need to be reminded that these Jews are people of high intelligence and you should not attempt to compete with them or their personal interpretation of Christianity. And I agree with those Jews who can point to a plethora of facts proving that both Islam and Christianity are inherently anti-semitic, especially Orthodox Christianity. But you live in the blissful world of chronic ignorance and denial and seem to be completely ignorant of the history of your own faith. A convert's perogative.

Uturn,

You cannot keep posting like this.

First of all, if you can point to a plethora of facts, DO IT.

I also find it hard that Arab Muslims can be anti-Semitic
when they themselves are Semites.

Are there anti-Jewish Christians and Muslims? Yes.  Is the religion inherently anti-Semitic? No.

Furthermore, you personally attack your opponent.  That is uncharitable and rude.

Do not continue posting like this if you wish to remain an active part of the community.

anastasios
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2003, 11:17:00 AM »
Quote
Religion really is bizarre...any religion. "Thank God," for militant doubt and cynicism.

Responding to this personally, I just can't understand that.  My relationship with Christ has led me to a new state of peace, tranquility, and love for my neighbor.

The mystery of God being unfolded in my life has revealed to me that existence is beyond so many levels, that there is so much to experience beyond my finite, concrete limits.

Militant doubts just imprison one in a never-ending cycle of insecurity and searching.  You will never find the goal when you are never willing to accept an answer.  Cynicism is just your defense mechanism to cover up your doubts in a "logical" way: you ridicule that which you cannot understand.

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Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2003, 11:36:29 AM »
Brother Anastasios,

I believe that the posts are way off the original thread and should be moved.

james
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline uturn

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2003, 11:49:17 AM »
Quote
Religion really is bizarre...any religion. "Thank God," for militant doubt and cynicism.

Responding to this personally, I just can't understand that.  My relationship with Christ has led me to a new state of peace, tranquility, and love for my neighbor.

The mystery of God being unfolded in my life has revealed to me that existence is beyond so many levels, that there is so much to experience beyond my finite, concrete limits.

Militant doubts just imprison one in a never-ending cycle of insecurity and searching.  You will never find the goal when you are never willing to accept an answer.  Cynicism is just your defense mechanism to cover up your doubts in a "logical" way: you ridicule that which you cannot understand.

anastasios

Orthodoxy is easy to understand, especially when one accepts as apodictic truths a hand-full of postulates that must be believed by faith: a priori. After that, the process is simple.

But believing that 1+1=3, as Einstein said, is stretching credulity to the point of the absurd. It is that credulity which is the weakness of every form of orthodoxy, Christian or not.

Greek philosophy--which often contradicts a plethora of orthodoxies--is much more sophisticated and rational, even corresponding to today's scientific discussion of physics, of particles and waves. ("All else is illusion.")

Beautiful stuff and what will endure of the Greek--Byzantine--Ottoman continuum. Sorry, uturn, you can't insult Christian saints on an Orthodox message board., and contemporary Greeks are well aware of that fact and are acting accordingly, as are their European confreres.


Orthodoxy is a beautiful religion that comforts certain souls. Long before you were born, I spent years immersed in that culture, even believed the theology. But Orthodoxy cannot endure as a major influence on the intellectual history of mankind, any more than Islam can. Their glory days are over.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2003, 12:03:37 PM by anastasios »
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2003, 12:02:44 PM »
We are not concerned with Orthodoxy being an inluence on the intellectual history of mankind.  We are interested in following the truth of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But the future of the Church is not in Europe, which is dying culturally and numerically.  The future is in Africa, and the future is in America.  And in both places, Orthodoxy is growing.

We don't need to worry about what washed-up, dried out European "intellectuals" think, especially when their thinking has led to a culture of death where human life is valued less and less.  When you are 80 and the doctors euthanize you against your will, you will remember Orthodoxy.

anastasios
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2003, 12:13:06 PM »
I am going away for most of the day.  Therefore, since I know no one else will be around either from our admin team, I am just going to lock this thread for right now so it doesn't get out of hand.  I will open it back up tonight if I think the tide is stemmed.

anastasios
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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2003, 10:23:52 AM »
Several people have expressed a desire to respond to Abdur's comments against the Orthodox.  As I said, I would consider reopening this thread.  Abdur, I expect that should you choose to respond, you will not continue your attack on Orthodoxy per my previous post but will respond with charity and clarity, not vague accusations.

I am only opening this thread due to Orthodox request: if it gets out of hand again, I will close it again.

anastasios
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Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2003, 01:05:59 PM »
WATCH ALERT

Tonite on Fox News a repeat of Bill OReilly interviewing Brother Mel regarding the Passion.


james  ;D

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Columcille

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2003, 04:34:23 PM »
Mel Gibson brings movie to city's church leaders



By KAMON SIMPSON- THE GAZETTE

Actor Mel Gibson has been getting closer to God.

On Thursday, that led him to Colorado Springs, where he visited New Life Church and Focus on the Family and previewed his upcoming film, “The Passion.”

Gibson, star of such films as the “Lethal Weapon” series and “Braveheart,” said it was his Christian faith that inspired “The Passion,” which depicts the final 12 hours in the life of Christ.

“I’m not a preacher and I’m not a pastor,” Gibson said. “But I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize.”

Although the film won’t be released until March, Gibson brought it to Colorado Springs — a national hub of evangelical Christianity — for one day to make sure its depiction of the Gospel was acceptable to leaders at Focus on the Family and to hundreds of church leaders, including Ted Haggard, New Life’s pastor and president of the National Evangelical Association.

“It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who Jesus was,” Haggard said based on clips he viewed at New Life. “You can’t help but be upset when you realize the gravity of what Jesus went through.”

As a Hollywood superstar, Gibson carries quite a bit of gravity himself. As word spread he was at Focus on the Family screening the film, almost 300 giddy staff members and visitors gathered outside the visitor’s center, hoping to catch a glimpse and get an autograph.

Gibson financed the $25-million film, which is seeking a distributor. He co-wrote the script, directed and produced the movie, which stars James Caviezel, a lesser known actor, as Christ.

On Thursday, he received feedback on the film, which has generated a buzz because it was shot in the Aramaic language of the time. Gibson, who has said the film will “transcend language barriers with visual story telling,” wants to release it without subtitles.

But subtitles were in place during Thursday’s showing for a small audience at the Focus on the Family visitor’s center, and local religious leaders told him those subtitles should stay in place to help spread the movie’s message to those not familiar with the story.

Based on the reaction of those who saw the film, they enthusiastically endorse it.

“I was very impressed,” said Don Hodel, president of Focus on the Family. “It’s certainly the most powerful portrayal of the passion I’ve ever seen or heard about. The movie is historically and theologically accurate.”

Wearing a gray shirt and black slacks, Gibson appeared on stage at New Life Church before the screening to address an audience of more than 800 ministers gathered for the Life Giving Leadership Conference, an annual event.

He was candid in relating how events more than a decade ago led him to become a more committed Christian.

“I’ve been pastor at New Life Church for 18 years, and I don’t remember anyone displaying a fear of God on our platform the way Mel did today,” Haggard said.

A Catholic, Gibson attended Mass every morning during shooting because “we had to be squeaky clean just working on this,” he said.

“It was a strange mixture of the most difficult thing I’ve ever done, along with this incredible ease,” Gibson said. “Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity.”

When Haggard thanked Gibson for making the film, Gibson said, “I was afraid not to.”

CONTACT THE WRITER: 636-0367 or ksimpson@gazette.com



 
 
 
 
"The way of God is a daily cross.  No one has ascended into heaven through an easy life."  St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2003, 04:06:54 PM »
I beg forgiveness from the forum for this mid-aged Latin who was missed informed yesterday, it is tonite (8:00PM & 11:00PM EST) on the Fox News O'Reilly Factor is the Mel Gibson interview.

Of course, thats according to their website.


james
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2003, 07:30:37 PM »
Quote
From uturn: Regardless of your feelings of omniscience, some people just don't interpret history according to your Fundamentalist schema.

Feelings of omniscience?

I expressed doubt about your version of an alleged event (alleged by you) because it did not sound realistic to me and still doesn't.

Placing complaints about the "Slavic Orthodox" in the mouths of elderly Jews and WWII veterans just seems a little too convenient. I still wonder why the Jewish opponents of a Catholic Church would bring up the "Slavic Orthodox" and why WWII veterans would have any reason at all to oppose the construction of such a church.

Quote
From uturn: You need to be reminded that these Jews are people of high intelligence and you should not attempt to compete with them or their personal interpretation of Christianity.

Who said they were not?

Who knows if they even exist?

You offered your version of an event that supposedly occurred in the 1980s without a shred of supporting evidence.

Who is competing with anyone?

Everybody is entitled to his own "personal interpretation of Christianity."

But one should strive to make that interpretation conform to the truth.

It's not a contest.


Quote
From uturn: And I agree with those Jews who can point to a plethora of facts proving that both Islam and Christianity are inherently anti-semitic, especially Orthodox Christianity.

Orthodox Christianity was founded by Jews and is certainly not "inherently Anti-Semitic."

Plethora of facts?

A plethora left untouched in your post except for a proclamation of its supposed existence.

Quote
From uturn: But you live in the blissful world of chronic ignorance and denial and seem to be completely ignorant of the history of your own faith. A convert's perogative.

There is a lot I do not know; that is true. Perhaps there is a blissful aspect to that fact: there are many things it is better not to know.

I am not completely ignorant of the history of my faith, however, nor do I find the title of "convert" something of which to be ashamed.

There are worse things.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 07:34:31 PM by Linus7 »
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
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Offline Jakub

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Re:Bishops respond to Mel Gibson flap
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2003, 02:00:45 PM »
interesting article from Jewish Forward magazine

www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.07.04/news14.html

Bishops misquoted ?

james
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.