Author Topic: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?  (Read 1084 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline thismanisdan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • A Great Cloud of Witnesses
Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« on: June 17, 2009, 10:42:13 AM »
 I'll admit this is also a bit of a conversion issue as well (although I do realize it doesn't totally hinge on that fact) but why do you guys think that miracles these days are not nearly as prominent as in the early church days? Has God pulled back showing signs of His power to a lesser extent so that we will have to go forward in faith rather than by witnessing His works or could it maybe be that we aren't learned in the practices and faith levels that contribute to attaining them? I really love that verse in the gospels about having the faith even the size of a mustard seed and I think about it often. Am I taking it out of context or was Christ referring to doing great works with a pure and genuine faith?

 I hope this makes sense.

I also do realize we do receive many miracles in the modern day but I feel as though with the expansion of The Church they should become more and more prominent.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 10:43:25 AM by thismanisdan »

Offline Bogoliubtsy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,268
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 11:08:29 AM »
Partly because science and advances in knowledge explain what we formerly considered miraculous.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,904
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 11:15:11 AM »

Miracles happen every day!  All around us.

The ones that get noticed are the weeping icons, visions, the Jordan running "backwards", the Holy Fire, etc.  We have a number of weeping icons in my area, that are presented to the faithful at certain times of the year.

"Smaller" miracles that are not on a grand worldwide scale happen every single day.  We just need to open our eyes and not only notice them, but appreciate and give thanks for them.

However, don't base your faith on the observance of miracles to assure you that the Faith is real. 

Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,537
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 11:25:26 AM »
I believe we do but these miracles are not reported to be such because they are dismissed by nonbelievers and/or overly logical people to be something that science needs to explain and has the ulitmate authority.  For example, this past weekend, I had the wonderful opportunity to pray before the Weeping Theotokos Icon of Sitka.  Prayers through this particular icon have been known to help cancer patients recover and go into complete remission.  I told this to my father and he just rolled his eyes.  He's Lutheran, not Orthodox, so even within Protestant denominations, miracles are readily dismissed as something that can naturally be explained.

Also, and I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist,  but a lot of such miracles are just simply not reported on because of society's fear and hatred towards Christ and His Church.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,772
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 11:26:51 AM »
Partly because science and advances in knowledge explain what we formerly considered miraculous.

When the Albanian Theotokos here began to weep and exude myrrh, the press asked "have you tested the tears?"

The priest responded "they did that to the icon in New York a few years back, and they found out that the liquid had the same chemical composition as human tears.  What did that prove?  Either you believe, or you don't."

Only an evil generation seeks a sign, and this generation is quite cynical and hard to impress.  There have been several miracle cures, for instance, which the most modern medicine have proved are without explanation.

And btw, the Church has always been skeptical of miracles. The Fathers warn, if you see one, ignore it.  When our Arab Theotokos began to weep here, the first thing the bishop did was not to venerate it, but to exorcise it, so as to make sure that another "miraculous" power wasn't at work.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,772
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 11:31:44 AM »
However, don't base your faith on the observance of miracles to assure you that the Faith is real. 

Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.



I remember when I became Orthodox, that I prayed that I NOT see a miracle before my Faith was sure. When I saw my first weeping icon (and to be honest, I was more impressed by the miles long line to come see it, across from a mall during Christmas season: people were parking in mall and coming to the Church.  The Church, btw, is St. Nicholas), and remember staring and saying to myself, "OK, now what?"
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Bogoliubtsy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,268
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 11:39:27 AM »
Partly because science and advances in knowledge explain what we formerly considered miraculous.

When the Albanian Theotokos here began to weep and exude myrrh, the press asked "have you tested the tears?"

The priest responded "they did that to the icon in New York a few years back, and they found out that the liquid had the same chemical composition as human tears.  What did that prove?  Either you believe, or you don't."

Only an evil generation seeks a sign, and this generation is quite cynical and hard to impress.  There have been several miracle cures, for instance, which the most modern medicine have proved are without explanation.

And btw, the Church has always been skeptical of miracles. The Fathers warn, if you see one, ignore it.  When our Arab Theotokos began to weep here, the first thing the bishop did was not to venerate it, but to exorcise it, so as to make sure that another "miraculous" power wasn't at work.

I certainly don't doubt the miraculous. However, a good chunk of what was considered signs, miracles, etc. is explainable today through advances in what we've learned about the natural world.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline jckstraw72

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,174
Re: Why do we not see nearly as many miracles present day?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 01:24:00 PM »
Partly because science and advances in knowledge explain what we formerly considered miraculous.

When the Albanian Theotokos here began to weep and exude myrrh, the press asked "have you tested the tears?"

The priest responded "they did that to the icon in New York a few years back, and they found out that the liquid had the same chemical composition as human tears.  What did that prove?  Either you believe, or you don't."

Only an evil generation seeks a sign, and this generation is quite cynical and hard to impress.  There have been several miracle cures, for instance, which the most modern medicine have proved are without explanation.

And btw, the Church has always been skeptical of miracles. The Fathers warn, if you see one, ignore it.  When our Arab Theotokos began to weep here, the first thing the bishop did was not to venerate it, but to exorcise it, so as to make sure that another "miraculous" power wasn't at work.

I certainly don't doubt the miraculous. However, a good chunk of what was considered signs, miracles, etc. is explainable today through advances in what we've learned about the natural world.

like what?