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Poll
Question: Which jurisdiction has the strongest monasticism in the U.S. ?
Antiochians - 1 (4.3%)
Greeks - 13 (56.5%)
OCA - 9 (39.1%)
Total Voters: 23

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Keble
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« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2003, 02:13:47 PM »

But nobody would be able to try the 1,000 beers because the trip is scheduled during a fasting period!  :'(

Not if you're an Anglican! Grin
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« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2003, 02:48:04 PM »

Must avoid making cheap shot at Anglicanism...must avoid making cheap shot at anglicanism... Cheesy
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« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2003, 03:48:10 PM »

Well, that does lead to a question I've been pondering.  We cook in our family and we're local to the meeting area.  What can we bring to any picnic that is acceptable fare?  

Ebor
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« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2003, 03:52:28 PM »

Other thought, I seem to recall reading discussions about E.O. fasting and there was discussion about wine is forbidden at certain times, but beer is a different case (as long as one is not drinking to excess.) due to times and places where the water was not safe for consumption. So beer was a way to make water 'safe'.

I also know that different E.O. fasting periods have different grades, as it were, of severity.  But I need to find the differences between the August/Dormition/Falling Asleep one and Great Lent for example.  

Basically, I want to know how we can be hospitable and not offend people.

Ebor
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« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2003, 04:08:44 PM »

Good points Ebor!  It will not be fasting season for those on the Old Calendar and I expect there will be non-Orthodox there as well.  Also, fasting seems to vary by jurisdiction and among usages (Greek and Russian, for instance have different disciplines about olive oil!).  

I think some variety is called for.  Each will eat what he/she will eat.
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« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2003, 06:29:01 PM »

Beer is not banned by some groups of Orthodox during fasting seasons--in many locals beer was the only thing people had to drink that was safe!
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« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2003, 06:55:01 PM »

Tut tut Anastasios - spelling error which made funny reading on this side of the Big Pond Cheesy

<<in many locals beer was the only thing people had to drink that was safe!  >>

A 'local' is a pub, drinking den, ale house etc. You go down to the local at night for a wee 'swalley' or 'refreshment'

Did you mean' locale ' as in area . place, etc. ?

yeah yeah   -- I'm just being picky

Actually had a luvverley pint of Bitter and Twisted [ Harviestons ] yesterday with my lunch - very tasty
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« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2003, 11:55:59 PM »

Good points Ebor!  It will not be fasting season for those on the Old Calendar and I expect there will be non-Orthodox there as well.

Well, if I and mine are there there will be Non-s in attendance. But food for the general gathering must take others into account.

Ebor
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« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2003, 11:58:04 PM »

Must avoid making cheap shot at Anglicanism...must avoid making cheap shot at anglicanism... Cheesy

Thank you for your gallant efforts, David.  Grin (For the record Anglicans have seasons of fasting...just not in August.  Smiley )

Ebor
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« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2003, 12:40:58 AM »

Ebor,
Anything you want to bring is fine, but if you want to take our concerns into account perhaps a good compromise would be to bring non-meat dishes.   This way, the old calendarists can feast a bit and fast a little with their new calendar brethren and vice versa.  

Also, I'll try to remember to bring you a cd sampler of some of the celtic bands I spoke with you about in the chat room.
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« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2003, 01:41:10 AM »

For the record, the picnic will contain both fasting and non-fasting items(meat, hotdogs, hamburgers, yum).

Every other meal we have will be out of your own pocket and most likely take place at restaurants. So to each his own of course.

So, any dish you feel like making, I'd suggest go ahead and bring!

I will be doing some shopping on Saturday morning getting the basic stuff we will need.

Thanks!
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« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2003, 04:19:42 AM »

Beer is not banned by some groups of Orthodox during fasting seasons--in many locals beer was the only thing people had to drink that was safe!

So in which locales in America is the water unsafe to drink?

See the problem? Application of eikonomia under specific circumstances does not then make it generally permissable to apply it outside of those circumstances. If you are drinking beer because you enjoy it (who doesn't!) and not out of health concerns, then it probably ought to be on your list of "don't eat"'s. Talk it over with your priest/confessors. We should be cautious of becoming legalistic, but on the other hand we seem all too ready to apply eikonomia whenever it suits us and it is that which primarily concerns me.

John.
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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2003, 08:21:16 AM »

OK, OK, this is already out of hand.

We don't need to get into a scrupulosity battle. (Though those of you who've tasted the water around here might agree that it is an excellent argument for drinking beer year-'round.)

My normally latent "commander" genes are getting activated.

Could someone please tell us goyim what kind of a fast this is?Huh?? I can prepare fasting dishes all the way up the scale, but I need to know what I'm aiming for.

Next: if we're going to use a picnic site we need to choose it and reserve it now. (Honestly-- this is turning into an exercise in Slavic chaos-- it must be contagious!) As I mentioned earlier, there is a county park immediately behind my house. It has a picnic pavilion, ballfields, playground equipment...... We have two ovens and a big refrigerator and a yak freezer, so if people want to bring things that need their temperature adjusted, we could provide that without having to rent someplace that had a kitchen. There are orthodox churches of all sorts around us-- actually, there are religious edifices of all sorts around us-- so people who wanted to go to the church of their choice beforehand could do so without having to drive across the area in between. It's about 45 minutes from Cathedral Row (St. Nicks/St. Sophia/SS. Peter & Paul) and I can provide straightforward directions. Unless someone objects I'll go ahead and try to reserve it; if people want something closer in I'll go look for something and reserve it instead.

Next: we need to start making a list of who is bringing what. We can't all bring chips and beer because some of us aren't college students anymore and can't live on that the way we used to. It doesn't have to be turned into Canon Law but we have enough people here that we need a little organization.

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« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2003, 09:26:45 AM »

We don't need to get into a scrupulosity battle. (Though those of you who've tasted the water around here might agree that it is an excellent argument for drinking beer year-'round.)

Sorry if my comment seemed to be directed at the up and coming gathering. I was mainly addressing the attitude that Anastasios was expressing (I don't know whether he holds that attitude, he was probably just having a bit of fun). Anyway, I felt compelled to respond because I have struggled with it myself and have seen it in others, but in retrospect I was probably being over sensitive.

I hope God blesses you with excellent weather and that you all come away enriched by each others fellowship. I'm just sorry we can't all be there :'(

John.
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« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2003, 10:55:28 AM »

John,

My priest (carpo-Rusyn) told me that it's not an application of economia, it's just something that is not banned in the Rusyn homeland during fasting seasons, a local tradition, shall we say.

I also know, from discussing with other Slavic Orthodox, that this seems to be the case in other areas as well.  Wine and anything "strong" is banned but beer is left up to the faster, from what these people say.  Arab Orthodox tend to be a lot stricter--but one has to wonder if that is a result (sorry, guys) of Islam perhaps, with its strictures against drinking period? I don't know, I'm just wondering out loud.

Anyway, John, I only drink beer about once a month so it's not really hard for me to give up, and I would certainly do it if my priest said I should!

Yours in Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2003, 11:00:54 AM »

Keble,

TomS was in the process of reserving one park that he thought might work; why don't you to private message each other and see what's up.

Thanks for your help!

anastasios
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« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2003, 01:13:09 PM »

Keble,

Good ideas...sounds fine to me.  Of course, I'm mainly along for the ride so I assume TomS would be a person to get in touch with.  Thanks for your efforts!
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« Reply #62 on: July 04, 2003, 02:42:57 AM »

My priest (carpo-Rusyn) told me that it's not an application of economia, it's just something that is not banned in the Rusyn homeland during fasting seasons, a local tradition, shall we say.

Thanks for clarifying that Anastasios. Your initial comment on unsafe drinking water suggested to me that it was application of eikonomia. I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I know that in the West there is something of a tradition for consuming beer during fasting periods, beer was referred to as "Lenten Bread". Many monasteries became famous for their beers, but considering how strong some of those beers are I would have to put them in the same fasting category as wine. Just those beers, not all.

John.
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« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2003, 02:14:30 PM »

Prodromos, I remember reading something (long ago, a Russian saint?  Memery banks need some new chips) to the effect that when traveling during a fasting period and someone goes to the trouble of offering the traveler food. It is eaten thankfully even if it is non-fasting items.  Gratitude and charity take precedence over fasting rigor.  Just a side note that floated to the surface of my heat-affected brain.  Smiley

Ebor
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« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2003, 03:10:32 PM »

Well put, Ebor. I was going to make mention of the same thing.

Bobby
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