OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 01, 2014, 02:24:03 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Vespers  (Read 3088 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« on: October 29, 2002, 07:13:32 PM »

Hi everyone,

Since I'm new to the forum, I'll introduce myself first.  My name is Jenny.  I'm currently Presbyterian, but searching.  I think I'm being called to the Catholic Church, but I haven't made the leap yet.  

I would like to attend an Orthodox Church more before I make that leap.  I have been to Divine Liturgy at an OCA parish and a Greek Orthodox parish, but I have never been to Vespers.   I'm planning to go this Saturday, but have no idea what to expect.   I'm hoping someone can help me to understand what Vespers is and what I should know before going.

Thanks. Smiley

God Bless,

Jenny
Logged
David
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of the South)
Posts: 1,952


Retired GM


WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2002, 09:16:09 PM »

Jenny,

Great Vespers is an evolution of the Jewish services of 1st century Judea.  The service lasts from 40 minutes to an hour.  Some parishes will follow Vespers with another service called Matins, which is roughly another hour.  Together, these two are usually refered to as a Vigil.  

The Eucharist is not offered at Vespers.  The form of worship consists of prayers, readings, and choral music.

The entire text of Great Vespers can be found at this website: http://www.sspeterpaul.org/Gvespers.htm   This is the translation of Archbishop DMITRI, bishop of Dallas and the South(OCA).  Outside of the Diocese of the South, the translation by St. Tikhon's Seminary is used.  I don't think this translation is online, but the only difference between the two is some of the wording.  The structure and meaning is exactly the same.  

For Protestant Inquirers, the most difficult thing about Vespers is the exclamation by the priest near the end that states "Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us" and the choir responds with the hymn to the Theotokos (More Honorable than the Cherubim...).  If this bothers you, I'll be happy to discuss it.  

The service is followed with veneration of icons.  There is not usually a coffee hour after Vespers, but my parish has started a bookclub after Vespers once a month.  Also, after Vespers the priest usually hears confessions.  

I hope this helps.  If you have any other questions, feel free to post them here or if you want you can email me at dave@taoofdave.com.  I wish you well on your journey.
Logged

"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,400


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2002, 09:44:28 PM »

Dear Jenny,

Glad to see you here!

AmatorDeus gave you a lot of good information.  I'd just like to follow up with one of my favourite links for Byzantine Vespers.  There are a couple of Greek Orthodox parishes which webcast their liturgical services, but only one of these that I know of does Vespers.  When I have time, I usually listen to this service in addition to praying Vespers in the Syrian tradition of which I am this board's humble representative.  To follow along, I use the text of Vespers provided at http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/liturgical_texts/vespers.asp as it is more straightforward and less rubrical than the text AmatorDeus provided.  I know I have had trouble in the past figuring out Byzantine Vespers (it's very byzantine Wink ), but this page from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese reads pretty well, as for the most part it goes straight through the service.  I like it.  I hope you benefit from it and the other page.

Also, you might like to check out some of the other nifty things at http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/text.asp.  God bless you.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Loukas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 46


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2002, 09:46:35 PM »

Jenny,

Welcome to the forum! God bless you on your journey. I am a former Presbyterian myself.

Here is a Greek form of Great Vespers - http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ephrem/vespers.htm

Vespers is a wonderful service. My favorite of all hymns, O Gladsome Light, is sung there.

Love, luke
Logged
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2002, 08:54:22 AM »

Jenny,

Great Vespers is an evolution of the Jewish services of 1st century Judea.  The service lasts from 40 minutes to an hour.  Some parishes will follow Vespers with another service called Matins, which is roughly another hour.  Together, these two are usually refered to as a Vigil.  

The Eucharist is not offered at Vespers.  The form of worship consists of prayers, readings, and choral music.

The entire text of Great Vespers can be found at this website: http://www.sspeterpaul.org/Gvespers.htm   This is the translation of Archbishop DMITRI, bishop of Dallas and the South(OCA).  Outside of the Diocese of the South, the translation by St. Tikhon's Seminary is used.  I don't think this translation is online, but the only difference between the two is some of the wording.  The structure and meaning is exactly the same.  

For Protestant Inquirers, the most difficult thing about Vespers is the exclamation by the priest near the end that states "Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us" and the choir responds with the hymn to the Theotokos (More Honorable than the Cherubim...).  If this bothers you, I'll be happy to discuss it.  

The service is followed with veneration of icons.  There is not usually a coffee hour after Vespers, but my parish has started a bookclub after Vespers once a month.  Also, after Vespers the priest usually hears confessions.  

I hope this helps.  If you have any other questions, feel free to post them here or if you want you can email me at dave@taoofdave.com.  I wish you well on your journey.  

Thank you!  

I think I'm in the Diocese of the South (I'm in Florida).  Thank you for the link.  

The veneration of icons after the service...Venerating icons is honoring the person represented in the icons, right?  How does everybody do that together?

Also, what is Matins?

As far as "Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us."....is that just asking Mary to intercede on your behalf?  

Sorry to ask so many questions!  

God Bless,

Jenny

Logged
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2002, 08:59:01 AM »

Dear Jenny,

Glad to see you here!

AmatorDeus gave you a lot of good information.  I'd just like to follow up with one of my favourite links for Byzantine Vespers.  There are a couple of Greek Orthodox parishes which webcast their liturgical services, but only one of these that I know of does Vespers.  When I have time, I usually listen to this service in addition to praying Vespers in the Syrian tradition of which I am this board's humble representative.  To follow along, I use the text of Vespers provided at http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/liturgical_texts/vespers.asp as it is more straightforward and less rubrical than the text AmatorDeus provided.  I know I have had trouble in the past figuring out Byzantine Vespers (it's very byzantine Wink ), but this page from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese reads pretty well, as for the most part it goes straight through the service.  I like it.  I hope you benefit from it and the other page.

Also, you might like to check out some of the other nifty things at http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/text.asp.  God bless you.  

Thank you!  It's good to see you, too!  I really appreciate the links.

I didn't realize there might be a difference in Vespers.  I have so much to learn! Smiley

God Bless you,

Jenny
Logged
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2002, 09:05:59 AM »

Jenny,

Welcome to the forum! God bless you on your journey. I am a former Presbyterian myself.

Here is a Greek form of Great Vespers - http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ephrem/vespers.htm

Vespers is a wonderful service. My favorite of all hymns, O Gladsome Light, is sung there.

Love, luke

Thank you for the link, Luke!   I think it's especially interesting when Presbyterians convert to the Orthodox Church.  In my experience (conservative, Evangelical Presbyterian), the Presbyterian church heavily emphasizes intellectual conversion and apologetics and has almost no interest in anything mystical.  In fact, most Presbyterians I know are somewhat hostile to the idea of mystery.  My friends from church don't understand my interest in Eastern Christianity (Orthodox or Eastern Catholic).  

God Bless you,

Jenny
Logged
David
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of the South)
Posts: 1,952


Retired GM


WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2002, 01:26:52 PM »

Quote
Thank you!  

I think I'm in the Diocese of the South (I'm in Florida).  Thank you for the link.  

The veneration of icons after the service...Venerating icons is honoring the person represented in the icons, right?  How does everybody do that together?

Also, what is Matins?

As far as "Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us."....is that just asking Mary to intercede on your behalf?  

Sorry to ask so many questions!  

God Bless,

Jenny



Yes, going to an OCA parish in Florida would be in the Diocese of the South.  The diocesan web page is www.ocados.org.  I am also in this diocese, but I reside in South Carolina.

You are correct that veneration of icons is honoring the person (as well as the image and likeness of God within that person).  Usually, people get in line and venerate(cross themselves in front of, then kiss) the icons on stands in the middle of the church one by one.  If at this point you are uncomfortable doing this, no one will think less of you for not participating.  It took me a while to actually kiss the icons, but once I did it seemed like something I had done from birth.

Matins is another service that follows Great Vespers.  It consists of prayers, readings, and choral music. Sensing a theme here? Smiley   Not all parishes have Matins.  At my parish we do Matins about once a month.  Sometimes we will accompany it with a reading from the Synaxarion(lives of the Saints).

As far as declaring, "Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us" that is asking for intercesseion from the Theotokos, but it also confirms the Orthodox belief that no one is saved in isolation.  In Protestantism, you can often find people saying that it's just "Me and Jesus."  This is alien to Orthodoxy's view that to join the Church is to become part of the Body of Christ.  We're all in this together, and such we have the responsibility to pray for others and ask others for their prayers.  And what better member of the body of Christ can you ask for intercession than the Mother of God?

I can confirm your observations on the Presbyterians with that of Reformed(and in most cases Southern) Baptists.  I was a religion major at a Calvinistic Southern Baptist college when I decided to convert to Orthodoxy.  That did not go over well at all, and I was eventually forced to leave the school.

If you have any more questions, don't hesistate to ask!  

In Christ,

David
Logged

"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
Nigula Qian Zishi
Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 1,836


我美丽的妻子和我。

nstanosheck
WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2002, 01:49:29 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Jenny,

      First off, welcome to the forum, I hope you find your answers from the great posters here. However I'd suggest talking to Orthodox priests as well during your journey. Since you've been to a GOA and OCA liturgy, you may be interested in visiting a ROCOR Church as well. To find one in Florida just go to http://directory.sjkp.org/parishes.php?PHPSESSID=0a01ee6a9ac332d9a3875672e2d32206&state=FL&submitButtonName=Go the churches' priests names, emails,  as well as phone numbers are listed for contacting them if you wish. (Anyone else looking for a ROCOR Church in another state or even country can find one at http://directory.sjkp.org/) God Bless!
Logged

在基督         My Original Blog
尼古拉         My Facebook Profile
前执事         My Twitter Page
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2002, 09:49:17 AM »

Hi David,

Thank you so much for answering my questions.   I'm feeling less intimidated about going to Vespers! Smiley

And thank you for explaining about the Theotokos.  Very interesting.  It certainly does make sense to ask her for intercession!

The Othodox view that nobody is saved in isolation is SO completely the opposite of Protestantism!  I can't get over what a different outlook it is!  But I believe it is a right and beautiful thing that we're all in this together.  

God Bless you,

Jenny
Logged
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2002, 09:51:47 AM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Jenny,

      First off, welcome to the forum, I hope you find your answers from the great posters here. However I'd suggest talking to Orthodox priests as well during your journey. Since you've been to a GOA and OCA liturgy, you may be interested in visiting a ROCOR Church as well. To find one in Florida just go to http://directory.sjkp.org/parishes.php?PHPSESSID=0a01ee6a9ac332d9a3875672e2d32206&state=FL&submitButtonName=Go the churches' priests names, emails,  as well as phone numbers are listed for contacting them if you wish. (Anyone else looking for a ROCOR Church in another state or even country can find one at http://directory.sjkp.org/) God Bless!

Hi Nik,

I will definitely talk with an Orthodox priest.  And I would like to visit and ROCOR Church.  I looked on the link you provided and there are a couple near me in Tamarac and Miami (I'm in Ft. Lauderdale).  Thanks for link!

And thanks to you and to everyone for your warm welcome!

God Bless,

Jenny
Logged
Loukas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 46


WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2002, 11:43:28 AM »

Quote
Quote
Thank you for the link, Luke!   I think it's especially interesting when Presbyterians convert to the Orthodox Church.  In my experience (conservative, Evangelical Presbyterian), the Presbyterian church heavily emphasizes intellectual conversion and apologetics and has almost no interest in anything mystical.  In fact, most Presbyterians I know are somewhat hostile to the idea of mystery.  My friends from church don't understand my interest in Eastern Christianity (Orthodox or Eastern Catholic).  

This is very true. Presbyterians, especially those of the conservative wing, are very scholastically and intellectually minded. Because of their trust in the mind they are much more likely to convert to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy. But God was  more gracious to some of us.  Grin

Love, luke
Logged
Jenny
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60



« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2002, 08:57:01 PM »

Hi everyone,

I was not able to go to Vespers this past Saturday. Cry

My husband and I had had long standing plans with some friends of ours on Saturday morning. I thought I would be home long before Vespers. Because we had gone with our friends, I couldn't leave when I wanted to and we got back after Vespers.

I was very disappointed. I will definitely be going this Saturday.

God Bless,

Jenny
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.078 seconds with 40 queries.