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Author Topic: Reader's service on night of Presanctified  (Read 1822 times) Average Rating: 0
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Schultz
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« on: February 27, 2008, 05:16:01 PM »

A question for you seminary/liturgy geeks.

It seems that I won't be able to make it to LPG tonight so I'll be doing a Reader's service at home.  All's well and good until after the Prokeimenon when LPG would normally start and, as such, there's no stichera for the Aposticha in the Triodion.  What would  one use in such a situation: the stichera from the Octoechos or from Matins or something else entirely? 
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 05:18:26 PM »

There is a supplimental Triodion book by Light and Life.  That should have it.  I will look into the details tonight at chapel and let you know.  I am assuming you are asking for the 1st LPG, and in general at the same time.  So I will search with this in mind. 

I would say also in general you start with the Menaion and then go to the Octoechos, if the Triodion does not have it.  The octoechos  is a filler for when there isn't anything in the other books. 

I'm gona look up the 1st LPG tonight and let you know what I see...
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 05:22:33 PM »

There is a supplimental Triodion book by Light and Life.  That should have it.  I will look into the details tonight at chapel and let you know.  I am assuming you are asking for the 1st LPG, and in general at the same time.  So I will search with this in mind. 

I would say also in general you start with the Menaion and then go to the Octoechos, if the Triodion does not have it.  The octoechos  is a filler for when there isn't anything in the other books. 

I'm gona look up the 1st LPG tonight and let you know what I see...


Thanks!  I figured that the Octoechos was the way to go.  I don't have the supplementary material for the Triodion, yet.  I probably won't be getting it this time around but plan to have it for next year.  It's good to know that it's in there, though.

And I'm Catholic, so we're actually in the 4th week of Great Lent...can't wait until 2010 when the calendars are matched up again! Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 06:51:13 PM »

I forgot to look!!!  SORRY!!  Sad Sad

I will check in the greek sources a little later though.  sorry again!  I can let you know tomorrow morning, if no one else answers the question. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 09:21:01 PM »

Shultz another option would be to use the Apostica from Sunday Vespers. The MCI has a PDF for Sundays Vespers of the Great Fast:
http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/sheetmusic/general/LentenSundayAfternoonVespers.pdf

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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 01:01:11 AM »

Shultz another option would be to use the Apostica from Sunday Vespers. The MCI has a PDF for Sundays Vespers of the Great Fast:
http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/sheetmusic/general/LentenSundayAfternoonVespers.pdf

Fr. Deacon Lance

Sorry Deacon, but why would you use the Aposticha from Sunday vespers?  That makes no sense to me liturgically...maybe you can enlighten me. 


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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 02:16:43 AM »

If you don't have the Tridion available the Aposticha from Sunday Vespers of the Great Fast which are from the Tridion and are geared to the themes of the Great Fast make more sense to use liturgically than those from the Octoechos which on Wedensday evening are for the Apostles and Friday evening are for the Martyrs and the Departed.  Of course that is just a suggestion.  The Typikon actually states that if the Presanctified is not celebrated, at the Aposticha , the Stichera (from the Evening Psalms) of the Triodion are repeated with the daily verses and  Glory, now and ever... and the Stavrotheotokion of the Triodion

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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 02:30:46 AM »

The Typikon actually states that if the Presanctified is not celebrated, at the Aposticha , the Stichera (from the Evening Psalms) of the Triodion are repeated with the daily verses and  Glory, now and ever... and the Stavrotheotokion of the Triodion

Fr. Deacon Lance

This makes sense, and is consistent with what I know.  the only question I have is, which typikon...lol....?

If you don't have the Tridion available the Aposticha from Sunday Vespers of the Great Fast which are from the Tridion and are geared to the themes of the Great Fast make more sense to use liturgically than those from the Octoechos which on Wedensday evening are for the Apostles and Friday evening are for the Martyrs and the Departed.  Of course that is just a suggestion. 

Definitely.  I agree.  it is better to just use the ones from the feast of Sunday before, throughout the week if you have nothing. 

I would assume from the original post (OP) that Schultz has something though...although that might be a wrong assumption. 


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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 02:32:14 AM »

A question for you seminary/liturgy geeks.

It seems that I won't be able to make it to LPG tonight so I'll be doing a Reader's service at home.  All's well and good until after the Prokeimenon when LPG would normally start and, as such, there's no stichera for the Aposticha in the Triodion.  What would  one use in such a situation: the stichera from the Octoechos or from Matins or something else entirely? 


 CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC?Huh?


I am just having an issue with which part of the Presanctified you are talking about.  After "kateuthinthito"?  or what?  thanks! 

[modified to reflect size, and re ask a new question based on OP, in order to be noticed]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 02:34:51 AM by serb1389 » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 11:28:46 AM »

Quote from: Deacon Lance
Shultz another option would be to use the Apostica from Sunday Vespers.

Thanks Fr. Deacon, I'll keep that in mind.  I do have a copy of the Sunday Vespers (as well as the Daily Vespers book).  At home I've been using the MCI texts along with the info from Fr. John Whiteford's reader's service horologion. 

Quote from: Deacon Lance
The Typikon actually states that if the Presanctified is not celebrated, at the Aposticha , the Stichera (from the Evening Psalms) of the Triodion are repeated with the daily verses and  Glory, now and ever... and the Stavrotheotokion of the Triodion

Indeed, I do see that in Fr. David's Typikon.  My question arises from the fact that I the triodion texts I have do not have Stichera for the Aposticha.  I've been using the Tridion texts provided by the Holy Myrrhbearer's Monastery in NY.   I have them on a cd that Mother Raphaela graciously sent to me earlier this year which also contains their Menaion texts as well as the Octoechos and Pentecostarion.  This cd has been invaluable in my home prayer life, particularly during Lent.

In the HM texts, on Wed and Fri during Lent, after the Prokiemenon, the phrase "-And the rest of the Presanctified Liturgy-" appears.  Since there is no Aposticha during the LPG, and the nuns there presumably celebrate LPG on Wed and Fri, the stichera are not among the texts I have available.  My question is if doing reader's vespers at home instead of attending LPG at my church and I don't have stichera for the Aposticha available, what should I use?

Thanks again to both of you for all your help. 
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 01:32:52 AM »

Well...I guess my confusion is in several areas. 

What do you plan on doing for liturgy?  just a reader's service for that? 

Also, usually for wednesday and friday nights there are hymns set aside like in the Narthex Press books and other books. 

Like I said, the supplemental book is very good.  You also might want to try taking a look at the Triodion book by Bishop Kallistos.  I am not in my room otherwise I would look at it myself and tell you. 

Beyond that...if they don't exist, don't do them.  it's not always necessary to just 'add' stuff.  Leave that to the monks...lol.   Wink Grin
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 11:44:45 AM »

Well...I guess my confusion is in several areas. 

What do you plan on doing for liturgy?  just a reader's service for that? 

What I planned on doing was instead of Presanctified Liturgy at church I would do a plain old reader's service Lenten Vespers at home

Quote
Like I said, the supplemental book is very good.  You also might want to try taking a look at the Triodion book by Bishop Kallistos.  I am not in my room otherwise I would look at it myself and tell you. 

The supplement, as well as a real copy the Triodion of Bp. Kallistos and Mother Mary, is on the must have list by the end of the year so I'll have it available for next Lent.

Quote
Beyond that...if they don't exist, don't do them.  it's not always necessary to just 'add' stuff.  Leave that to the monks...lol.   Wink Grin

That makes perfect sense.  Smiley  As usual, I'm overthinking things.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 07:10:00 PM »

What I planned on doing was instead of Presanctified Liturgy at church I would do a plain old reader's service Lenten Vespers at home

The supplement, as well as a real copy the Triodion of Bp. Kallistos and Mother Mary, is on the must have list by the end of the year so I'll have it available for next Lent.

That makes perfect sense.  Smiley  As usual, I'm overthinking things.

I just checked in the supplemental book...it has hymns including Aposticha for every day of the week this week, and then all of the days for the upcoming weeks of Lent.  Bishop Kallistos' book is not as complete.  It will just have presanctified and compline and the other major services, but none of the in-between stuff if you want it. 

So yah...that's your best bet.  Unless someone has some online resources for you, that's all I got.   Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 10:42:06 AM »

I just checked in the supplemental book...it has hymns including Aposticha for every day of the week this week, and then all of the days for the upcoming weeks of Lent.  Bishop Kallistos' book is not as complete.  It will just have presanctified and compline and the other major services, but none of the in-between stuff if you want it. 

So yah...that's your best bet.  Unless someone has some online resources for you, that's all I got.   Smiley

Great, thanks for the confirmation.  I'll definitely have that by next year, then.

Thanks again!
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