Author Topic: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari  (Read 3049 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fatman2021

  • Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
  • Protopope Avvakum, pray for us.
    • How to make the sign of the cross....
The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« on: February 27, 2008, 02:10:51 PM »
Dose anyone know any thing about the Liturgy of Addai and Mari? Is it canonical  in its current form. If not, why? What changes need to be made to make it canonical ?
O God be merciful to me a sinner. You, O Lord who created me, have mercy on me. I have sinned without number,O Lord, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 02:13:31 PM »
This is an absolutely fascinating discussion because, although I don't know about its current form, it did not, at one time have the words of institution.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,014
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox OCA
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 02:23:30 PM »
He's baaaaack!
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,542
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 02:26:40 PM »
And posting the same question on Byzcath, too!

link disabled to comply with OC.net policies.

+Fr Chris
Administrator


« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 02:30:55 PM by FrChris »
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 04:06:45 PM »
Dose anyone know any thing about the Liturgy of Addai and Mari? Is it canonical  in its current form. If not, why? What changes need to be made to make it canonical ?

There is no current form. This Liturgy died out of use in the Orthodox Church.
Joseph

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 05:34:30 PM »
There is no current form. This Liturgy died out of use in the Orthodox Church.
Still exits in the Ancinet Assyrian Church of the East and in the Chaldean Catholic Church.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 05:59:31 PM »
Still exits in the Ancinet Assyrian Church of the East and in the Chaldean Catholic Church.
That's nice but they are not Orthodox, hence it is a dead Liturgy for the ORTHODOX!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 05:59:42 PM by arimethea »
Joseph

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 39,288
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 07:27:30 PM »
That's nice but they are not Orthodox, hence it is a dead Liturgy for the ORTHODOX!

Maybe, maybe not.  There was a group of Assyrians who embraced Orthodoxy under the ROC.  Most were killed by the Turks but some survived, and remained.  I saw an article a little while back that mentioned some villages in, I believe, Armenia.  The question is if they kept their liturgies when entering Orthodoxy.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline fatman2021

  • Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
  • Protopope Avvakum, pray for us.
    • How to make the sign of the cross....
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 08:30:55 PM »
Thank you to all of you that gave me constructive feedback...
O God be merciful to me a sinner. You, O Lord who created me, have mercy on me. I have sinned without number,O Lord, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner.

Online Salpy

  • Section Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,571
  • Holy Martyrs of the Armenian Genocide pray for us!
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 12:41:49 AM »
If you click on the "liturgy of Addai and Mari" tag below, you will find some other threads touching on this.

Some links:

http://www.cired.org/liturgy.html

http://www.cired.org/liturgy/apostles.html

http://www.cired.org/pdf/raza.html

Offline fatman2021

  • Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
  • Protopope Avvakum, pray for us.
    • How to make the sign of the cross....
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 12:52:04 AM »
In 1912, Many Nestorians of Iran joined the Russian Orthodox Church.  Today there are about 750,000* Nestorians in Iran.

*Calculated for the total population of North Africa and the Middle East, approx. 460,000,000.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 12:54:05 AM by fatman2021 »
O God be merciful to me a sinner. You, O Lord who created me, have mercy on me. I have sinned without number,O Lord, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner.

Online Salpy

  • Section Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,571
  • Holy Martyrs of the Armenian Genocide pray for us!
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 01:02:32 AM »
I'm assuming you mean Church of the East (Assyrian Church.)  The numbers you quote seem a little large to me.  Could you link your source?  I'm just curious.

Another link concerning the liturgy:

http://www.nestorian.org/liturgy_of_addeus_and_maris.html

Offline Anastasios

  • Webdespota
  • Administrator
  • Merarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,497
  • Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina
    • AnastasiosHudson.com
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 01:50:23 AM »
Maybe, maybe not.  There was a group of Assyrians who embraced Orthodoxy under the ROC.  Most were killed by the Turks but some survived, and remained.  I saw an article a little while back that mentioned some villages in, I believe, Armenia.  The question is if they kept their liturgies when entering Orthodoxy.

Yes they did, and there was still one parish into the 1990's in Tehran under ROCOR. Not sure what happened to it. They might have edited the liturgies somewhat though.
Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,292
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2008, 02:21:45 AM »
Anastasios,

They used the DL of St. John Chrysostom translated into Syriac, they did not continue with the DL of Addai and Mari, which probably explains why more didn't join the union with Russian Church.

Fr. Deacon Lance

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Anastasios

  • Webdespota
  • Administrator
  • Merarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,497
  • Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina
    • AnastasiosHudson.com
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 04:35:52 AM »
Anastasios,

They used the DL of St. John Chrysostom translated into Syriac, they did not continue with the DL of Addai and Mari, which probably explains why more didn't join the union with Russian Church.

Fr. Deacon Lance



Can you give me a reference for that? Someone told me they continued to use their rite once, complete with their own vestments.  I'd like to correct my understanding.

Thanks!

Anastasios
Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,292
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2008, 09:14:41 AM »
History of the Syrian Nation and the Old Evangelical-Apostolic Church of the East by Geroge David Malech, published by Gorgias Press.

http://books.google.com/books?id=6dLH1XD0clEC&pg=PP16&lpg=PP16&dq=assyrian+bishop+join+russians&source=web&ots=oVfEiDD2bb&sig=dZcrgVOW85QNRU9VhiJKDq1KKas&hl=en#PPP16,M1

The Bishop Yonan mentioned above can be seen here:
http://www.roca.org/bishop_john.htm

The remnants of his group still have a parish in Baghdad and celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chysostom in Syriac although they are no longer in communion with anybody, but I think that is due to difficulty in communicating with ROCOR during Saddam's reign.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 09:24:45 AM by Deacon Lance »
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline fatman2021

  • Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
  • Protopope Avvakum, pray for us.
    • How to make the sign of the cross....
Re: The Liturgy of Addai and Mari
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2008, 04:13:45 PM »
The information is found on the following webpage:
http://i-cias.com/e.o/nestorian.htm
O God be merciful to me a sinner. You, O Lord who created me, have mercy on me. I have sinned without number,O Lord, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner.