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Author Topic: did Jesus honor the theotokos?  (Read 1678 times) Average Rating: 0
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Rosehip
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« on: February 21, 2008, 11:14:10 PM »

Hello! I was reading Matthew 12:46-50, because a Protestant friend pointed out to me that this passage proves that Jesus did not place the Theotokos on a different rank than any other faithful Christian. What do you think?

"while he was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.
then one said to Him, "look, Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You. but He answered and said to the one who told Him, "who is my mother and who are My brothers?" and He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "here are My mother and My brothers! for whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2008, 11:50:17 PM »

With regard to this passage, Saint Kyril of Alexandria says;

"Do not let anyone imagine that Christ spurned the honour due to His Mother, or contemptuously disregarded the love owed to His brethren; for He it was Who spake the law of Moses, and clearly said; "Be honouring thy father and they mother, that is may be well with thee". And how, I pray, could He have rejected the love due to brethren Who even commanded us to love not merely our brethren, but those who stand as foes in relation to us? For He tells us to love our enemies. What, therefore, does Christ wish to teach? His object then is to highly exalt His love towards those who are willing to bow the neck to His commandments... The greatest honours, and the most complete affection is that which we all owe to our mothers and brethren. If, therefore, He says that they who hear His word and do it are His mother and brethren, is it not plain to everyone that He bestows on those who follow Him a love thorough and worthy of their acceptance?" (Commentary on the Gospel of St Luke)

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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 12:10:08 AM »

Thank you for this passage from St. Cyril. However, I am not sure if it will  convince the party concerned that Christ is here not implying that Mary was no more special than any other faithful Christian.  Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 12:15:23 AM »

Probably it is a good idea to remember that it's not important to convince your friend. Trying to convince people, is so exhausting and takes us away from so many good things. Smiley
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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 12:13:53 PM »

Thank you for this passage from St. Cyril. However, I am not sure if it will  convince the party concerned that Christ is here not implying that Mary was no more special than any other faithful Christian.  Undecided

If quotes from church fathers affirming the same position held by the Church for 2000 years will not 'convince' your friend, then all you can do is pray for him or her. S/he is obviously not open to this discussion, and it is best for you to not bring it up unless s/he chooses to do so.
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 12:20:34 PM »

To which I would add that I take Christ's direction, given from the cross to John, to 'behold, your mother' to be meant for me. Of course most Protestants object to this.

(and from that objection one can demonstrate a lot of other Church teachings on the Theotokos)
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 04:50:05 PM »

Hey Αριστοκλής,

I bet the Protestant explanation for not using that line is, "Well, Jesus didn't specifically point at Mary when He said it!", even if Jesus' hands was sorta indisposed on the cross at that particular moment... Wink

« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 04:50:28 PM by Myrrh23 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 04:55:04 PM »

 Cheesy

I wouldn't want to give them any more weird ideas (but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that one)
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 06:52:22 PM »

The first miracle of His ministry on earth began with the 'Miracle of Cana' when he changed the water into wine at the behest of His mother the Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God.

Remember she requested this of Him in favor of the host and guests of the wedding for which her Son Christ the Savior of the World granted it to her although He said to her "My time has not yet come".

This is the third act of her intercession to God for us. The first was when she said to Her cousin Elizabeth "the world shall call me blessed" She said this as a believer in Christ who she was carrying inside her. She is at this point a true believer in Christ; the first of firsts.

The second is when she said to the guests at the wedding "do as He says". And they did. This indicated her faith yet again in His first miracle He was about to perform. Again she is the first among the firsts.

And thirdly after she found her Son who stayed behind to converse with the priests and scribe the scripture says that "she kept all these things in her heart". This regarded all of his wondrous words of salvation. First of first yet again. Even most of us still do not full have our "whole heart" given to Gods special word. We question much of what we are to believe

ThusThe Holy Bible speaks of her as the first among firsts. Elect form the elect. Chosen form among the chosen. The Bible is the Word of God and Jesus Christ IS God in the flesh so the scripture and Christ speak in common.

The mere fact of this and the awesome blaring fact that God sent His Son to the world through her is evidence of her place with God in comparison to other women or men even.

As she said "from here on the world shall call me blessed".

No other human on earth can make that statement.

Today this is still true. Except among protestant and related types who prefer the Holy Virgin Mother of God to be seen like any common women we see today.

You can barely find a "devout" Christian women that would even come close to her not to mention the average "Christian women" we see today divorced at lease once, wearing low-cut blouses, showing "leg" while smoking cigarettes on the church steps. I am not complaining about women today; we men are 10 fold worse.

I loaded my point this way not to criticize or cause hurt feelings but to hopefully cast a shadow between 'our' reality as "Christians" particularly in our era but any era and what and who the Holy Virgin is.

She is without doubt our Holy Mother

We must pray for understanding.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 06:53:31 PM by Amdetsion » Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 08:54:26 PM »

Thank you for your post, Father Deacon.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us!
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