What they could get could be a recovery. They could get an American Catholic version of the Oxford Movement, a reform which would reach back into the past and recover what was good, hopefully transforming it in the light of what has advanced and improved.
I'm cool with that.
The sense I get is that the various movements don't see this.
You may be right!
No. The Anglo-Catholics are firmly entrenched in the hymnal and are never going to be pried loose-- how else do you explain including the medieval chant for "All Glory, Laud and Honor" in the hymnal?
Good. BTW, I think Healey Willan's simple music is wonderful for a Mass in English.
From what I see, it's Cursillo that is the source of this.
Thought that's what you meant.
...essentially what happens is that people get caught up in the love-bombing and intensity of the the weekend and it is this that they want to take home with them.
I went on a junior version of Cursillo at one or two removes, a 'Search' weekend, when I was a teenager, and while I see the dangers with the love-bombing, etc., it actually was life-changing therapeutic for me. Of course I never really bought into the low-church liturgics, though. And in the end I think that was proved to be right: high church is in part the same en theos
joy (not 'enthusiasm' in the Ronnie Knox sense, a danger you seem aware of in this stuff) but in a deeper, lasting
a lot of Catholic music from the St. Louis J-boys and other folk-rock/camp-song stuff
Even if one likes the genre, it's 100% unliturgical
, 'devotional' stuff - just like the soppy 1890s hymns that used to decorate Low Mass - so to call it Catholic
has a highly ironic ring to me with a slightly sour note as well.
It's that people don't tend to have much-- or even any-- experience of actual Orthodox liturgy. Their picture comes from romanticized photographs in the National Geographic and stories they've heard about Russian practices
I get it - building a castle in the air, never having experienced a real working castle with cold-water baths and no comfy central heating. I wouldn't totally knock secondhand 'first contact' like National Geographic
and literature - such helped get me started religiously when I was a teenager, FWIW - but of course I see your point!
BTW, 'what got me started' wasn't just fantasizing. To their credit (or blame, depending on your POV) a big reason I never could buy into Novus Ordo
-type stuff, and still don't, is that when I was 12 I got to experience traditional, Godward liturgical worship firsthand at a not-high but conservative Episcopal church that had Anglican-chant Morning Prayer as the main service most of the time, the altar against the east wall, a Communion rail that was used, and nothing but the 1928 Prayer Book and the Hymnal 1940. Liturgically it wasn't high but the Sunday-school teaching was. Even though the rest of the Episcopal Church had women 'priests' by that point, I didn't know of it until years later. (I thought at the time the then-new Continuing movement was simply about the old Prayer Book.) Discovering Anglo-Catholicism, Tridentine Roman Catholicism and Russian Orthodoxy later on simply built on that foundation. (The Novus Ordo
was nothing but an annoying distraction.) So from an early age I considered myself connected to the great tradition even before I learnt what most of that tradition is.
it's a Woebegonograd land where all the priests are godly, all the monks are wise, and all the babushkas are above average in their piety.
LOL, brilliant! -ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â -+-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-+-+-+-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¡-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦-ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¨.
They haven't been to St. John Obscurovitch in the real Lake Woebegon in August
I love it!
where all the windows are open because the weather is a foretaste of the fires of hell, where the priest is droning on endlessly and off-key (and everyone knows, because the priest just sang, "and now let us conclude our prayers to the Lord", that there is still 30 minutes to go)
Yep, you've been. LOL. If the part I italicized isn't already on my Top Ten Signs You Might Be Russian Orthodox
page it should be.
where the icons are obviously printed cards
To get serious for a moment I've got nothing against such - that's what my own icons
are. Mother Thecla in England once wrote a book in which she mentioned paper icons, saying while technically they're 'icons of icons' (though I'd say if they're blessed, they're icons, period), if they've been prayed with for 50 years, who's to say they're not real icons? (Echoes of The Velveteen Rabbit
where the choir sings feebly and there is one geriatric bass and no tenors (except for maybe a couple of women);
LOL - you've been to my old church!
where people are milling about in the service
doesn't offend me! It's part of the charm - the balance of the wonderful extreme ritualism in the sanctuary ('in the altar' in good Russian Orthodox parlance) and the wonderful, home(l)y feeling among the congregation. The church is there for people on several levels, whether one is prepared to receive the Sacrament that day or if one is barely practising and has dropped in to light a candle at a favorite icon or get one's ration of holy water for the year.
and some poor woman (who married into the church) is trying to keep her four year old under control while her husband (an immigrant) is out on the steps having a smoke (they don't have a nursery because that would be "Protestant").
What can I say? That stuff really happens, and historically not only EOs do it - ethnic RCs have done that too. Of course in a Russian church the guy having a smoke wouldn't and couldn't go to Communion that day!
And never mind the Greek church in the next town (St. Kontrarios)
Again, LOL, brilliant - St Kontrarios! Sorry, Greeks and Greek Orthodox converts, that's pretty much what I've done - never mind the Greeks, they're a law unto themselves.
which is the church that the Greeks don't go to
Based on what I can tell at a distance, totally true.
and where the music isn't Tchaikovsky and Bortniansky, but this wierd chanting that is slightly less accessible than Tibetan Buddhism
True again - Russian music, obviously based on polyphony and German chorales, is more accessible to Western traditional Catholic ears. Chacon a son gout