Author Topic: Hail Mary  (Read 3224 times)

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Offline Myrrh23

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Hail Mary
« on: February 19, 2008, 04:41:57 PM »
Hey Guys!


The words "Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee" and "Blessed are Thou among women, and Blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb" are contained within the Bible, but where did the rest of the prayer come from, and when did it come about?

Myrrh23
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 05:11:05 PM by Myrrh23 »
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 06:06:40 PM »
The Roman Catechism (1566) says this:

For The Blessed Virgin Mary

To this sort of prayer belongs the first part of the Angelic Salutation, when used by us as a prayer: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women. For in these words we render to God the highest praise and return Him most gracious thanks, because He has bestowed all His heavenly gifts on the most holy Virgin; and at the same time we congratulate the Virgin herself on her singular privileges.

To this form of thanksgiving the Church of God has wisely added prayers and an invocation addressed to the most holy Mother of God, by which we piously and humbly fly to her patronage, in order that, by her intercession, she may reconcile God to us sinners and may obtain for us those blessings which we stand in need of in this life and in the life to come. We, therefore, exiled children of Eve, who dwell in this vale of tears, should constantly beseech the Mother of mercy, the advocate of the faithful, to pray for us sinners. In this prayer we should earnestly implore her help and assistance; for that she possesses exalted merits with God, and that she is most desirous to assist us by her prayers, no one can doubt without impiety and wickedness.

-

The second part of the prayer seems to have been added sometime during the late Middle Ages.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 10:49:17 PM »
Hey Guys!


The words "Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee" and "Blessed are Thou among women, and Blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb" are contained within the Bible, but where did the rest of the prayer come from, and when did it come about?

Myrrh23
Which version of the Hail Mary are you talking about?  You may not be aware that the Orthodox and Catholic (or maybe more correctly Eastern and Western) versions of this prayer are quite different.

Western Version:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.  Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, both now and at the hour of our death.  Amen.


Eastern Version:
Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with You.  Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for you have borne the Savior of our souls.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2008, 10:57:16 PM »
The Roman Catechism (1566) says this:

For The Blessed Virgin Mary

To this sort of prayer belongs the first part of the Angelic Salutation, when used by us as a prayer: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women. For in these words we render to God the highest praise and return Him most gracious thanks, because He has bestowed all His heavenly gifts on the most holy Virgin; and at the same time we congratulate the Virgin herself on her singular privileges.

To this form of thanksgiving the Church of God has wisely added prayers and an invocation addressed to the most holy Mother of God, by which we piously and humbly fly to her patronage, in order that, by her intercession, she may reconcile God to us sinners and may obtain for us those blessings which we stand in need of in this life and in the life to come. We, therefore, exiled children of Eve, who dwell in this vale of tears, should constantly beseech the Mother of mercy, the advocate of the faithful, to pray for us sinners. In this prayer we should earnestly implore her help and assistance; for that she possesses exalted merits with God, and that she is most desirous to assist us by her prayers, no one can doubt without impiety and wickedness.

-

The second part of the prayer seems to have been added sometime during the late Middle Ages.
lubeltri,

The Faith Issues section is a place to discuss Orthodox faith, so please assume automatically that anything discussed in this section will be a discussion of the Orthodox perspective.  If you want to offer the above from the history of the Latin practice of the Hail Mary, then please start another thread in the Orthodox-Catholic section for such posts.
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 12:06:30 AM »
Peter, when did the two version of the Hail Mary become changed?? I didn't know there were two versions! (Growls at her Catholic schools)  >:( Why did the West change it?


Myrrh23
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 12:10:59 AM by Myrrh23 »
*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator

Offline username!

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 12:57:00 AM »
Peter, when did the two version of the Hail Mary become changed?? I didn't know there were two versions! (Growls at her Catholic schools)  >:( Why did the West change it?


Myrrh23

I'm not sure why they have a different version, but I know the reason isn't your Catholic school. 

Offline GiC

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 01:03:10 AM »
lubeltri,

The Faith Issues section is a place to discuss Orthodox faith, so please assume automatically that anything discussed in this section will be a discussion of the Orthodox perspective.  If you want to offer the above from the history of the Latin practice of the Hail Mary, then please start another thread in the Orthodox-Catholic section for such posts.

I would assume that the history of the prayer in the west is relevant when someone asks about the history of the 'Hail Mary'...the only reason we even refer to that prayer (from compline, I believe) as a 'Hail Mary' is by analogy to the western practice with their far more popular prayer.
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 01:42:02 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure why they have a different version, but I know the reason isn't your Catholic school.

It's not? Sooooo...that means I have to put away this flaming torch, the gas can, the spray paint bottles, and the bologna meat?  :(
I was gonna use the bologna meat to discolor the priest's car.... :(
Bummer... ;)


Myrrh23
*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator

Offline arimethea

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 02:19:04 AM »
I saw the title "Hail Mary" and I was looking in to see which "Hail Mary" was being discussed. My personal favorite "Hail Mary" was Jim Harbaugh to Aaron Baily in the AFC Championship game against the Steelers... ohh if only Aaron would have held on to the ball...
Joseph

Offline Schultz

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 10:36:36 AM »
lubeltri,

The Faith Issues section is a place to discuss Orthodox faith, so please assume automatically that anything discussed in this section will be a discussion of the Orthodox perspective.  If you want to offer the above from the history of the Latin practice of the Hail Mary, then please start another thread in the Orthodox-Catholic section for such posts.

Don't the WRO use the Latin version?  Or aren't they "Orthodox" enough for you?
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 10:37:33 AM »
I saw the title "Hail Mary" and I was looking in to see which "Hail Mary" was being discussed. My personal favorite "Hail Mary" was Jim Harbaugh to Aaron Baily in the AFC Championship game against the Steelers... ohh if only Aaron would have held on to the ball...

My favorite Hail Mary pass will always be Doug Flutie's incredible pass during his final year at BC.

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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 10:43:50 AM »
Western Version:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.  Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, both now and at the hour of our death.  Amen.


I believe the Syrian Orthodox use the same version as the Catholics, as can be seen here. I'm not sure if that's the result of Western influence on the Syriac Church or whether it points to an Eastern origin for the 'Western version.'

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Hail Mary
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 12:48:14 PM »
lubeltri,

The Faith Issues section is a place to discuss Orthodox faith, so please assume automatically that anything discussed in this section will be a discussion of the Orthodox perspective.  If you want to offer the above from the history of the Latin practice of the Hail Mary, then please start another thread in the Orthodox-Catholic section for such posts.

Sorry. Seeing that he was asking about the second part of the prayer (added in the West), I thought he was referring to the Western (Catholic) version.