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Author Topic: Autism  (Read 14780 times) Average Rating: 1
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Myrrh23
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« on: February 17, 2008, 11:58:41 PM »

Hey Guys---


I know next to nothing about Autism, but I found these two videos on YouTube. What is of interest to me that I wanted to pass along, in case people didn't know, was that parents can request Mercury-Free vaccinations from the doctor for their children. Smiley

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+Jim+Adams%2C+Autism+%26+Chelation+on+Dateline+NBC&search_type=

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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 01:34:11 PM »

You can request not only mercury free, but separate alternative vax'es. Some are still formuated off human fetal tissue cells, yes still. There is no argument so don't anyone bother.
Many are still formuated of egg proteins of various creatures, and present allergy issues. If you have either milk or egg allergies you have to order these. I found out too late.
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 07:42:58 PM »

My son was autistic he now is recovered. He is not autistic since he was 4-5 years. I discovered he was not talking, loner from 18 months after the vaccination & began my journey to see what happened to my little boy. By the time he was 2 & 3 months, I was in the Royal Childrens Hospital Development Delay Unit having him screened. I was surprised to be told that the doctor was a neurologist? I couldn't understand why a neurologist would screen my baby for him not talking but then I was shocked/devastated that he thought my baby was on the mild side of the autism spectrum. I thought autism was rainman, dustin hoffman as tom cruise's brother. I couldn't understand how a loving, close baby could be autistic. I was 7 months pregnant with my 3rd baby & my world collapsed, I grieved. Fortunately, the neurologist was positive, referred me to brilliant speech therapists and the next day I discovered ABIA therapy on the internet. Its run from UCLA, LA in the US, I live in Australia but I began with reading the 'Let Me Hear Your Voice' & began the therapy immediately. I dont see autism as an illness, I see autism as a learning development that when you teach one on one with play, the kid's mind opens & absorbs the world around them. He is perfectly recovered, communicative & connected. It took 2 years ABIA but it was well worth it. For anyone who is told that their child is on the spectrum or who can see development issues, I share my story with you so that you know there is Hope. 
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 08:37:43 PM »

There is autism, and there are autism-like conditions.  Heavy-metal poisoning will produce "autism" in an otherwise-normal child, and chelation therapy will get rid of the heavy metals and the "autism."  But let's not confuse that with the genuine autism that is based on the presence of certain aberrant genes plus certain prenatal triggers.
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 08:43:11 PM »

My son was diagnosed with autism at 2 years 4 months. He is no longer autistic because of ABIA. What are the genetic factors & prenatal? I'm really interested as it has never been explained to me, thanks
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 11:56:17 PM »

There is autism, and there are autism-like conditions.  Heavy-metal poisoning will produce "autism" in an otherwise-normal child, and chelation therapy will get rid of the heavy metals and the "autism."  But let's not confuse that with the genuine autism that is based on the presence of certain aberrant genes plus certain prenatal triggers.

Amen.  My wife works with "autistic" pre-Kindergarten children in the public school system.  Her charges range from really autistic to just needing a really good spanking.  Problem is, too many times everyone is dumped in the same group.
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 04:59:52 AM »

My son was still a baby when he was screened. Most people to start the journey until their child is 4. Autism gets worse if left untreated, so the earlier you start the more success. I know kids who could do nothing but hit their head against the wall & constantly spin toys/string who are perfectly recovered, fully connected with their peers, family, excellent comprehension skills. Its a shame that parents are not aware of ABIA, not told because of the high intense cost. I was willing to give everything away just to finance my child's health, what do you need 2 houses for if your child has a lifelong disability? The house will come back to you, its just property. I had many people praying for him & monks in a special monastery praying. I am for ever grateful to our LORD for his kindness to me, blessing me with 3 children.
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 06:08:39 PM »

Out of the numerous valid scientific studies that have been done, none have found a link between vaccines and autism:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/science/13vaccine.html
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 06:30:02 PM »

I'm up to date on the scientific research. Its just that from my personal experience my baby changed after the vaccination 18 months. I've come accross medical research that shows autism develops in babies after 12-18 months. I am interested in the cause because out of 3 children only 1 had autism, for me I'm more active letting people know that there is a 'cure', for my child is perfectly abled now. All the children with autism that I knew are now OK. The 2 children I have met recently have autism even though they're my son's age because their parents did not know about ABIA, speech & play therapy. This is the tragedy if parents know of what therapy/ABIA and know from early on that their child has autism then there are options. Its just that doctors dont even want to diagnose a baby/toddler with autism not even development delay.
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Liz
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 07:59:49 PM »

The research that suggested a link between vaccinations and autism has been widely discredited.

It has been argued that a key characteristic of autism is a regression at around the age vaccines are commonly given (which occurs whether or not the child is vaccinated).
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 05:15:44 AM »


Autism is general name for lot of mental and neurotic disability forms. Some time including  possessed people.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2010, 07:47:38 PM »

Liz, I agree with you. All of my friends & parents with children who are on the spectrum believe vaccinations are the cause, I think that autism reveals itself from 12 moths to 18 months. Personally, my son loved children, jumped up & down in his pram when he saw children & he did develop words & speech. Its just that his first words were not mama or daddy. So even before his autism came out at 18 months if you look closely his language development was different.

Alive, I thought people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia were thought to be possessed not autism. Do you have a link or example of someone possessed but diagnosed with autism? Thanks
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2010, 08:03:46 PM »

Schizophrenics and people with Dissociative Identity Disorder give far more an impression of being possessed than any autistics I ever knew, and I'm on the spectrum myself, so I know a few.
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2010, 09:54:46 PM »

1. Less or more we all mentally ill.
2. Less or more we all schizophrenics. human was rip apart and split on thousands pieces. (Basil Great).

3. Ap. Paul declare about he have sting of satan in his flesh. So in some way any one may be possessed in this way.
Flash of Job was detain by satan too.

Critical form of possession is when demon declare it self openly (speak) and there is lot of speculation about.


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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2010, 10:21:15 PM »

Do you have a link or example of someone possessed but diagnosed with autism? Thanks

Autism is not real true diagnose.
I mean it (autism) cover lot of deferent form, where human not respecting outside influence with “adequate response” set by western psychology.

So Blissed Christ sake are would be easy diagnosed as “autistic”  in “western psychology”.



I saw tv programme (1-2 years ago or so) , where pure possessed (open form) people called autistic.  USA even have summer camp for them for “socialization”.  

Also I would say “Pentecostal tong speaking” etc is form of temporary autism.
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2010, 10:46:43 PM »

Liz, I agree with you. All of my friends & parents with children who are on the spectrum believe vaccinations are the cause



Any form of physical weakness may expose possession. For example fasting.

So if human no longer capable to control own mind and cover internal state , it got expose in way it is.


So if vaccine(chemical stress) – destroy or block some neurotic link preventing individual from “common response” for “social interaction”.

Modern psychology may (would) identify as autistics  some desert fathers and people live solitary life.
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2010, 08:04:51 AM »

Liz, I agree with you. All of my friends & parents with children who are on the spectrum believe vaccinations are the cause, I think that autism reveals itself from 12 moths to 18 months. Personally, my son loved children, jumped up & down in his pram when he saw children & he did develop words & speech. Its just that his first words were not mama or daddy. So even before his autism came out at 18 months if you look closely his language development was different.

That's interesting - I was reading from Charlotte Moore's book about her autistic sons which is popular in the UK, and she says the same.
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2010, 10:08:24 AM »

There is autism, and there are autism-like conditions.  Heavy-metal poisoning will produce "autism" in an otherwise-normal child, and chelation therapy will get rid of the heavy metals and the "autism."  But let's not confuse that with the genuine autism that is based on the presence of certain aberrant genes plus certain prenatal triggers.

Actually, while chelation therapy can reduce heavy-metal blood levels in a child who has been exposed to such metals, whether or not it will 'get rid' of such is very much a factor of how high a level the child had prior to it being identified and chelation begun.  Heavy-metal poisoning can (not 'will') produce autistic symptomatology; however, it can also produce a variety of other emotional and/or intellectual consequences, either rather than or in addition to autistic symptoms.

Vaccines as a causative agent for autism is generally discredited in the medical literature, however there are still significant numbers of people who choose to believe it is either the or, at very least, a cause. There are also any number of other theories as to the cause.

The so-called autistic spectrum is broad, probably much too broad - leading to the types of behavior and issues that several folks have raised - and to such disparities of presentation as that depicted by Dustin Hoffman versus the life lived by Temple Grandin. The initial descriptions of Early Infantile Autism by Leo Kanner in the late 1940s involved such a highly defined synptom cluster that diagnosis could be accomplished by a checklist. But, in retrospect, it's clear that the patient population which initially came to Dr Kanner's attention were, indeed, almost all in what would subsequently be recognized as the condition's  truest and most severe form. In that state, it can certainly be said to be rarely, if ever, curable. In fact, it's doubtful if true autism can ever be completely cured. What can be hoped is to mitigate its effects.

As regards the 18 month of age issue - the association with vaccines was originally formulated because of that age factor and that vaccines were fairly routinely admnistered at about that age. However, Kanner identified that as a common age at which parents and others first started to be aware of the symptom cluster. In retrospect, however, under careful questioning, parents and other caregivers were often found to describe earlier signs that were not noted as important at the time (and would not have been to an unskilled observer) or were written off to immaturity, etc.

Finally, although multiple instances in among sibings are not unknown, single children - regardless of his or her birth order - are likewise not uncommon.

Many years,

Neil (once involved in the assessment of autistic children, now the Dad of a child with autistic overlay, tentatively diagnosed as Aspberger's Syndrome)
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 10:36:22 AM »

IM clearly knows exactly what he is talking about, so I hope he'll excuse me for adding these few comments to his informative post:

Kanner's work is hugely important (as was the work of Hans Asperger, translated into English in the 80s but contemporary with Kanner). But I have found some of the modern work very helpful in understanding this condition - Lorna Wing's idea of a 'triad of impairments' seems to me very useful. She puts forward the idea that people on the autistic spectrum may vary hugely in terms of the way they present and the severity of their difficulty, but all will show some degree of impairment (difference from normal development) in three areas: social interaction, communication, and imagination.

I think this is a good way to look at the condition, and perhaps explains why we get so concerned - the idea of 'possession' is effectively a communication problem: as if someone has had their ability to communicate and speak for themselves blocked. But I don't think there is much maliciousness in an autistic person, because one of the characteristic features is that many (not all) autistic people find it difficult to understand the concept of lying. Lorna Wing would say this is  a failure of imagination: an autistic child doesn't easily learn that someone else might believe something different from what they themselves believe, so they don't understand how lies work.

That to me seems very different from the maliciousness implied by the idea of 'possession'.
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 08:26:52 PM »

As you know we on orthodox forum.

Orthodoxy is religion and teaching  about Individual connection with God.
There is community relationship but generally Christianity is about looking into you-self.
Isolate ourself from world influence. Ant it is could be define as autism to.

1.   Autism as medical class is “American product”
2.   It is have no clear definition nor diagnostics
3.   it cover huge range of mental stats.

Autism (imho) sound like people just find option to speculating on mental condition they have no idea about.
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2010, 12:50:29 AM »

Kanner's work is hugely important (as was the work of Hans Asperger, translated into English in the 80s but contemporary with Kanner). But I have found some of the modern work very helpful in understanding this condition - Lorna Wing's idea of a 'triad of impairments' seems to me very useful. She puts forward the idea that people on the autistic spectrum may vary hugely in terms of the way they present and the severity of their difficulty, but all will show some degree of impairment (difference from normal development) in three areas: social interaction, communication, and imagination.

Liz,

You're absolutely correct. Lorna Wing's work and ideas are extremely important to understanding, working wth, and living with children who have any form of autism, especially those with Asperger (hmm, spelled it right this time  Embarrassed  ) Syndrome. Others have also contributed significantly, Bernard Rimland comes to mind for his work on identifying a neurobiological cause, albeit in his later writings he began to head off into the vaccination theory.

Quote from: Liz
I think this is a good way to look at the condition, and perhaps explains why we get so concerned - the idea of 'possession' is effectively a communication problem: as if someone has had their ability to communicate and speak for themselves blocked. But I don't think there is much maliciousness in an autistic person, because one of the characteristic features is that many (not all) autistic people find it difficult to understand the concept of lying. Lorna Wing would say this is  a failure of imagination: an autistic child doesn't easily learn that someone else might believe something different from what they themselves believe, so they don't understand how lies work.

Absolutely true. My son is incapable of really lying - his absolute transparency in that regard is a dead give-away on those occasions when he tries to do so.

Many years,

Neil











That to me seems very different from the maliciousness implied by the idea of 'possession'.

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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2010, 02:39:16 AM »

After reading somewhat about the Fools for Christ, it occurred to me (with my Aspie-dar on) that many of them were on the autistic spectrum.
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2010, 03:48:47 AM »

After reading somewhat about the Fools for Christ, it occurred to me (with my Aspie-dar on) that many of them were on the autistic spectrum.
Precisely, what I am talking about.


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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2010, 03:59:48 AM »

People with power make up such diagnose as Autism , ADD, ADHD etc to deceive other.
They “play in God”, and them would pay for it one day.
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2010, 10:19:14 AM »

People with power make up such diagnose as Autism , ADD, ADHD etc to deceive other.
They “play in God”, and them would pay for it one day.


I don't think this is true. I'm sure we don't know everything we would like to about these subjects, but I'm also sure that psychologists and diagnosticians are only trying to do their best.
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2010, 10:20:29 AM »


Others have also contributed significantly, Bernard Rimland comes to mind for his work on identifying a neurobiological cause, albeit in his later writings he began to head off into the vaccination theory.


Thanks for the recommendation - I shall have a look at his work.  Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2010, 09:30:33 PM »

People with power make up such diagnose as Autism , ADD, ADHD etc to deceive other.
They “play in God”, and them would pay for it one day.


I don't think this is true. I'm sure we don't know everything we would like to about these subjects, but I'm also sure that psychologists and diagnosticians are only trying to do their best.

Road build on desire to make good often lead to hell.
For most time such will have no place for God.

People try to paly God – it is what western psychology does. They ignorant, poor educated in general and selfish( in most sophisticated form of it).
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« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2010, 09:45:17 PM »

I don't think this is true. I'm sure we don't know everything we would like to about these subjects, but I'm also sure that psychologists and diagnosticians are only trying to do their best.

I agree. It was thanks to those terrible psychologists/psychiatrists that I've begun to get my life in order. It's also because of them that my daughter was able to get help with several developmental problems, and continues to get help (she has Pervasive Developmental Disorder). I think such people fall perfectly into the discussion of doctors in Sir. 38:1-15...

Quote
Hold the physician in honor, for he is essential to you, and God it was who established his profession. From God the doctor has his wisdom, and the king provides for his sustenance. His knowledge makes the doctor distinguished, and gives him access to those in authority. God makes the earth yield healing herbs which the prudent man should not neglect; Was not the water sweetened by a twig that men might learn his power? He endows men with the knowledge to glory in his mighty works, Through which the doctor eases pain and the druggist prepares his medicines;

Thus God's creative work continues without cease in its efficacy on the surface of the earth. My son, when you are ill, delay not, but pray to God, who will heal you: Flee wickedness; let your hands be just, cleanse your heart of every sin; Offer your sweet-smelling oblation and petition, a rich offering according to your means. Then give the doctor his place lest he leave; for you need him too. There are times that give him an advantage, and he too beseeches God That his diagnosis may be correct and his treatment bring about a cure. He who is a sinner toward his Maker will be defiant toward the doctor.
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« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2010, 09:53:48 PM »



I agree. It was thanks to those terrible psychologists/psychiatrists that I've begun to get my life in order. It's also because of them that my daughter was able to get help with several developmental problems, and continues to get help (she has Pervasive Developmental Disorder). I think such people fall perfectly into the discussion of doctors in Sir. 38:1-15...



Modern psychologist working  to fit man into society comfort.

It is not path of Christianity, but antichristianity.
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« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2010, 05:23:26 AM »

After reading somewhat about the Fools for Christ, it occurred to me (with my Aspie-dar on) that many of them were on the autistic spectrum.
Precisely, what I am talking about.

Alive,

Your reply indicates that you are not really clear on what is meant by 'Fools for Christ'. I suggest you read http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ.

Many years,

Neil

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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2010, 06:11:45 AM »

After reading somewhat about the Fools for Christ, it occurred to me (with my Aspie-dar on) that many of them were on the autistic spectrum.
Precisely, what I am talking about.

Alive,

Your reply indicates that you are not really clear on what is meant by 'Fools for Christ'. I suggest you read http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ.

Many years,

Neil



Can you be specific?
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2010, 07:59:01 AM »

People with power make up such diagnose as Autism , ADD, ADHD etc to deceive other.
They “play in God”, and them would pay for it one day.


I don't think this is true. I'm sure we don't know everything we would like to about these subjects, but I'm also sure that psychologists and diagnosticians are only trying to do their best.

Road build on desire to make good often lead to hell.

I agree with you this can be a problem. But I think (as Asteriktos is saying) that many doctors in this specific case, have provided very useful tools for us to understand and help these children.


Quote
For most time such will have no place for God.

People try to paly God – it is what western psychology does. They ignorant, poor educated in general and selfish( in most sophisticated form of it).


I don't think you can really accuse all psychologists of being poorly educated! Some may be, but many are not. The idea that autistic children may be what Russia used to call 'fools for Christ' has been stated by people who are very convinced by modern psychology: the two ideas are not exclusive at all. Where is the harm in psychologists trying to think about how best to understand autism - there is no way in which what they are saying challenges God, or tries to 'play God': after all, they are not trying to create anything, but only to describe as best they can what they have seen?
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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2010, 11:44:59 AM »



I don't think you can really accuse all psychologists of being poorly educated! Some may be, but many are not. The idea that autistic children may be what Russia used to call 'fools for Christ' has been stated by people who are very convinced by modern psychology: the two ideas are not exclusive at all. Where is the harm in psychologists trying to think about how best to understand autism - there is no way in which what they are saying challenges God, or tries to 'play God': after all, they are not trying to create anything, but only to describe as best they can what they have seen?

1. I never live in Russia, visit it few times.
2. And I mention Christ sake mindless as example of incompetence western psychology in matter of Christianity and God perception.

Western psychology is pure fraud, deception and speculation.
How come could be any on educated based in fraud?

Most “phycologist with degrees” change matter of our dialog with in 5 minutes after we start , as have no capacity to justify statements them making.


I see lot of diagnosed with autism and ADD and ADHD etc.
Some of autistic have real neurotic problem, but it is “neuro-physiology” not psychology.
Rest are simply luck primary care in yearly childhood.

50-70% of kids clamed  “ADD” and “ADHD“ are undisciplined kids, for care givers and school not care for.
20-30% of ADD/ADHD kids are pure “cholerics” for it is type of them nerve system  react on irritation.
I presume some “melancholics” couldbe on this list to, but I can’t tell for sure with out proper research.


Most western phycologist even would not know what I am talking about.

And feed kids pills – easy fix for “ADD/ADHD” problems and good for “business”.
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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2010, 12:07:38 PM »

I'm really sorry, but I am struggling with your English. Please excuse me for asking for some clarification - I am just finding it hard, not trying to pick holes.



I don't think you can really accuse all psychologists of being poorly educated! Some may be, but many are not. The idea that autistic children may be what Russia used to call 'fools for Christ' has been stated by people who are very convinced by modern psychology: the two ideas are not exclusive at all. Where is the harm in psychologists trying to think about how best to understand autism - there is no way in which what they are saying challenges God, or tries to 'play God': after all, they are not trying to create anything, but only to describe as best they can what they have seen?

1. I never live in Russia, visit it few times.

I've never lived there either, I only know what I've read about the Russia idea, but to me it seems much preferable to hope that an autistic person may have special grace in the eyes of God, rather than to see them as possessed.

Quote
2. And I mention Christ sake mindless as example of incompetence western psychology in matter of Christianity and God perception.

Sorry, this is the bit I really don't follow. Would you mind rephrasing?

Quote
Western psychology is pure fraud, deception and speculation.
How come could be any on educated based in fraud?
But why do you think it is fraud?

Quote
Most “phycologist with degrees” change matter of our dialog with in 5 minutes after we start , as have no capacity to justify statements them making.

Do you mean, psychologists who're qualified in the academic sense, tend to change the terms of argument? It might be so, I've not seen it here but I understand that if that's happened in your debates, it must be very frustrating.

Quote
I see lot of diagnosed with autism and ADD and ADHD etc.
Some of autistic have real neurotic problem, but it is “neuro-physiology” not psychology.

Again, not sure I am following?

Quote
Rest are simply luck primary care in yearly childhood.

50-70% of kids clamed  “ADD” and “ADHD“ are undisciplined kids, for care givers and school not care for.
20-30% of ADD/ADHD kids are pure “cholerics” for it is type of them nerve system  react on irritation.
I presume some “melancholics” couldbe on this list to, but I can’t tell for sure with out proper research.

Where do you get these statistics from? Do you mean, that's what you reckon from what you've seen? And how much margin of error do you think is acceptable in diagnosis? (I agree 70% would be absolutely ridiculous!). The reason I ask is that with autism, early intervention is very important. So perhaps, it is more important to over-diagnose (and ensure help is got for all those who need it, even if it means some are re-diagnosed later), than to under-diagnose and risk missing people out. This over-diagnosis doesn't seem to happen in Britain - sadly, it seems to be the opposite - and it can mean parents lose help for years.

Quote
Most western phycologist even would not know what I am talking about.
I'm not sure I understand? If you are not addressing their area of knowledge, should they know about it? Should you not try to talk to them on their terms?

Quote
And feed kids pills – easy fix for “ADD/ADHD” problems and good for “business”.


Yes, this can be a problem. There's someone whose writing I have often read, who has two autistic sons. She thinks that some interventions are great, but she did describe how very badly her children reacted when they were prescribed certain drugs. It clearly is not good simply to assume a pill will fix things - and God forbid we go back to the old 'chemical cosh' system. Very sad.
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« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2010, 12:24:39 PM »


Hold the physician in honor, for he is essential to you, and God it was who established his profession. From God the doctor has his wisdom, and the king provides for his sustenance. His knowledge makes the doctor distinguished, and gives him access to those in authority. God makes the earth yield healing herbs which the prudent man should not neglect; Was not the water sweetened by a twig that men might learn his power? He endows men with the knowledge to glory in his mighty works, Through which the doctor eases pain and the druggist prepares his medicines;

Thus God's creative work continues without cease in its efficacy on the surface of the earth. My son, when you are ill, delay not, but pray to God, who will heal you: Flee wickedness; let your hands be just, cleanse your heart of every sin; Offer your sweet-smelling oblation and petition, a rich offering according to your means. Then give the doctor his place lest he leave; for you need him too. There are times that give him an advantage, and he too beseeches God That his diagnosis may be correct and his treatment bring about a cure. He who is a sinner toward his Maker will be defiant toward the doctor.

[/quote]

I forgot to say when I read this earlier - what a lovely quotation! I shall pass it on to a friend of mine, he is training as a medic and feeling very down at the moment!
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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2010, 12:43:47 PM »

Alive,

From what I am gathering, you think that all mental illness is "possession"?! I really think this is the reason that some people refuse to get help - it's this stigma attached to mental illness that they don't want attached to their name. Mental illness is VERY real, and it's a completely different ball game than demon possession. It makes me sad when people take it so lightly... It really should not be overlooked, and no offense to you, I think maybe you should be a little more sensitive towards the subject.

One another note - Liz and Irish Melkite, I agree that Wing made a huge contribution! I was just reading Wing's opinion about some of the problems in the DSM-IV and ICD-10 criteria for diagnosing an ASD (with regards to overlap in the different categories)... She is definitely a very intelligent woman.

Pray for me,
Faith.
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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2010, 12:46:05 PM »

Quote
I've never lived there either, I only know what I've read about the Russia idea, but to me it seems much preferable to hope that an autistic person may have special grace in the eyes of God, rather than to see them as possessed.
I do not share with you such enthusiasm.

I not say all “autist named” are possessed, but I see some clear cases…..
….And by the way we all luckily possessed any way….





Quote
Sorry, this is the bit I really don't follow. Would you mind rephrasing?
"Christ sake mindless" are good example of western psychology failure.  
For western psychology would classify them as mentally ill, and we declare them as healthiest then any one.




Quote
But why do you think it is fraud?

For it clear deception(in Christian way) and designed to deceive people and manipulate them.







Quote
Again, not sure I am following?
Do you nkow deference between “psychology” and “neuro-physiology”?






Quote
Where do you get these statistics from? Do you mean, that's what you reckon from what you've seen? And how much margin of error do you think is acceptable in diagnosis? (I agree 70% would be absolutely ridiculous!).
I not respect ADD nor ADHD nor Autism exists at all.
Some one take advantage of general public ignorance.....



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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2010, 12:49:00 PM »

Quote
I'm not sure I understand? If you are not addressing their area of knowledge, should they know about it? Should you not try to talk to them on their terms?
There is no way such people open for any dialog , for them spend high bucks for getting degree and aim no less then good pay check in “system”.

They would eat me alive if I try to oppose publicly …..and I not try to change world which going to hell any way.
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2010, 12:54:18 PM »

Alive,

From what I am gathering, you think that all mental illness is "possession"?!
Where i have say it?
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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2010, 12:59:15 PM »

Mental illness is VERY real, and it's a completely different ball game than demon possession.


No doubt.
We are all mentally ill.

And oftern so bad ..... worse then possession....
.....so bad that demon not worry to touch us.... for we worth than them.

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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2010, 01:01:21 PM »

"Christ sake mindless" are good example of western psychology failure.  
For western psychology would classify them as mentally ill, and we declare them as healthiest then any one.

I'm sorry, I do not understand this phrase 'Christ sake mindless'. I hope and assume you don't mean this, but the way you are using that construction it sounds like an insult familiar to speakers of British English.

Quote
Quote
But why do you think it is fraud?

For it clear deception(in Christian way) and designed to deceive people and manipulate them.

I mean, why do you think they are trying to deceive people? What is manipulative about diagnosing someone with autism?


Quote
Do you nkow deference between “psychology” and “neuro-physiology”?

Yes, but I don't understand your point, I'm sorry.

Quote

I not respect ADD nor ADHD nor Autism exists at all.
Some one take advantage of general public ignorance.....


I may be reading you wrongly, but this makes no sense. First you have said that there are 30-50% of correct diagnoses, now you say the condition being diagnosed does not exist? Which is it?


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« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2010, 01:02:40 PM »

Quote
I'm not sure I understand? If you are not addressing their area of knowledge, should they know about it? Should you not try to talk to them on their terms?
There is no way such people open for any dialog , for them spend high bucks for getting degree and aim no less then good pay check in “system”.

They would eat me alive if I try to oppose publicly …..and I not try to change world which going to hell any way.


I don't really understand what you're getting at - you mean you can't oppose them because they are rich?!
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« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2010, 03:41:53 PM »

I am sure that there are people who are autistic (as my son was), have some autistic symptoms, have ADHD, mental illness and something that has not been mentioned so far, Fatal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD). Indeed, there are some folks who are possessed. The problem is when we try to lump all of these folks together, to try to have one theory to explain us or to do so for pragmatic reasons. The latter is quite prevalent today as many kids with FASD are "diagnosed" as ADHD because the symptoms are similar, or "diagnosed" as autistic because that is where the money and resources are. I would urge all of us to really look into FASD, which is an entirely preventable condition: ladies, please do not drink alcohol if you may become or are pregnant. For further information, please go to:

FASD: http://www.fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/
ADHD: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/complete-index.shtml
Autism/ASD: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm
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« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2010, 04:11:57 PM »

I am sure that there are people who are autistic (as my son was), have some autistic symptoms, have ADHD, mental illness and something that has not been mentioned so far, Fatal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD). Indeed, there are some folks who are possessed. The problem is when we try to lump all of these folks together, to try to have one theory to explain us or to do so for pragmatic reasons. The latter is quite prevalent today as many kids with FASD are "diagnosed" as ADHD because the symptoms are similar, or "diagnosed" as autistic because that is where the money and resources are. I would urge all of us to really look into FASD, which is an entirely preventable condition: ladies, please do not drink alcohol if you may become or are pregnant. For further information, please go to:

FASD: http://www.fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/
ADHD: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/complete-index.shtml
Autism/ASD: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm

FAS is such a sad condition. I've heard of it being misdiagnosed as autism too, though I believe it is only ever possible to confuse it with the low-functioning end of the spectrum (which I suppose makes it even sadder). Just a note of caution though (which I should hope isn't necessary): FAS is caused by severe and prolonged alcohol abuse. One sip of punch at Christmas or half a glass at a party before you realize you're pregnant, is not reason to worry (I say this not to suggest we all go around merrily swigging wine, but because occasionally people who weren't aware of their pregnancy get very worried about the effect of such consumption as I've described).
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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2010, 08:35:57 PM »



I'm sorry, I do not understand this phrase 'Christ sake mindless'. I hope and assume you don't mean this, but the way you are using that construction it sounds like an insult familiar to speakers of British English.

Christ sake mindless are those who you refere as Fools for Christ.
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2010, 09:06:14 PM »


Quote
But why do you think it is fraud?

For it clear deception(in Christian way) and designed to deceive people and manipulate them.

I mean, why do you think they are trying to deceive people?
[/quote]

What you think, why snake deceive Eva?
And Eva than deceive Adam?





Quote
What is manipulative about diagnosing someone with autism?


What you think, why snake deceive Eva?
And Eva than deceive Adam?


For there is no such illness as “Autism” exists.

People make it up.

If some one call something by name what even not exist – it is call deception and if it came from official level it is call fraud.

You may call me goblin, hobit, avatar… but it is not mean I would belong to one of this fairytale fantasy … Americans call as aliens.



If from moment child born some one enforced to perceive unreal world (fairytale story), so after that child became adult he/she would with no difficulty to create own imaginable world fool of lie, get “medical degree” and make up unreal illness and make business.





It is work same way people create areal religions. But it is another story.



By the way I would assume western psychology is not medicine.
It is religion mixt with pharmacology
.












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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2010, 09:53:09 PM »


I may be reading you wrongly, but this makes no sense. First you have said that there are 30-50% of correct diagnoses, now you say the condition being diagnosed does not exist? Which is it?






It what I wrote…..:

Quote
50-70% of kids clamed  “ADD” and “ADHD“ are undisciplined kids, for care givers and school not care for.
20-30% of ADD/ADHD kids are pure “cholerics” for it is type of them nerve system  react on irritation.
I presume some “melancholics” couldbe on this list to, but I can’t tell for sure with out proper research.






May be I was to rush and not express myself clear but I mean next:


High percentage of those who was clamed as disorder (ADD or ADHD), not ill but simply kids who not get disciplined. modern school not wecome disciplining kids, and modern society screw educational programmes.


If around child was created wrong and false environment (wrong environment what is now promoted every where in world as healthy one) – as result, kids develop sort of animal behaviour with is easy fit in ADD and ADHD set criteria.
Specially it would effects “holerics” and “melancholic” .



It is same as some on make “cant run disorder”…..
I cant run for I have injured leg.
I cant run for I have head ache….
I cant run for I do not will obey your order
I cant run for I lazy
I cant run for my liver in pain
I cant run for I not see point of it


But for some one it would be “cant run disorder” for it suit to his project well.







I have see a lot of absolutely normal kids, who was diagnosed ADD for simple reason they are “choleric” by nature.
so, Other percentage who named ill - are “holerics” – which is way nerve system naturally work but is have no thing to do with disorder.

So what way them got treated ? drug abuse….
It same as we would make muscles transplant to turn sprinter into marathon.
Same as some good for sprinting (white fibra) and other for marathon – (red fibre). Is it illness?
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« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2010, 05:29:47 AM »


I mean, why do you think they are trying to deceive people?

What you think, why snake deceive Eva?
And Eva than deceive Adam?

No, that's not what I meant, sorry. I mean: what makes you think it is a deception? What evidence are you basing this on? It's very possible there is no one illness 'autism' that is the same in all people diagnosed with it - but the doctors agree with you on this! They too believe that what is identified as 'autism' is a spectrum disorder and clearly has more than one genetic predictor (unlike, say, Downs). But that doesn't mean the symptoms are less real, does it? Surely if a diagnosis and autism-specific advice helps someone like Asteriktos on this board, it is useful? I am sure that if he had found simply 'disciplining' his child more worked, he would have done that! And it would have been much cheaper and easier for him and for the government, so I don't think you can say autism is something people make up for financial reasons.

Quote

By the way I would assume western psychology is not medicine.
It is religion mixt with pharmacology
.

What leads you to that conclusion? I agree that plenty of psychologists wouldn't see themselves primarily as medics (in fact, certainly here in the UK, many psychologists didn't train in medicine). But religion and pharmacology? How so?
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« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2010, 07:04:59 AM »


I mean, why do you think they are trying to deceive people?

What you think, why snake deceive Eva?
And Eva than deceive Adam?

No, that's not what I meant, sorry. I mean: what makes you think it is a deception? What evidence are you basing this on?

We all have mental disorder form Adam.

And it what Christianity is about. Realise it and search for God.

1.   Western psychology is deception for it presenting world in twisted format.
2.   Western psychology deception for it not based on neuro-physiology
3.   Western psychology based on personal believe and have not cleat standards.
4.   Western psychology try to just fit man in designed standards of social life them “believe”  as “normal”.
5.   them call it "normal" as it serve to government programme.



Man (Eugen Bleuler) who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.



So, western psychology create and develop enormous number of concepts and believe them are so great and good. Babylon tower.



It is may lead to new way of discrimination and terror if needed. For all this diagnosis penetrating in governmental structure and law.
So it deadly corrupt and no way we can change it.

There is plenty of evidence in human history about what people with power can do and what way them use “psychology” to achieve own target.
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« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2010, 07:45:57 AM »

symptoms of autism are unreasonable, and lot of them in Christianity respect as achievement and natural human state.


I do respect there is some neurological illness but neurology is not psychology.

Normally neurological disease well spotted on 0 -3 months.

Any future disorder most luckily is resolute of neglect and luck of good care, education and discipline.







And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God.
But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.
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« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2010, 08:13:31 AM »


We all have mental disorder form Adam.

And it what Christianity is about. Realise it and search for God.

Yes, I see what you're saying. It just seems very tough that some people have so much more to struggle with than others - but you're right, and I think this is a much more humane way to look at autism than to talk of possession. But I don't see why you think that searching for God, and recongizing that we are all fallen, is incompatible with modern psychology? If something a psychologist says helps an autistic person or their parents/carers to cope with some of their struggles, surely that is a good thing?

Quote
1.   Western psychology is deception for it presenting world in twisted format.
2.   Western psychology deception for it not based on neuro-physiology
How do you man? Could you give me examples please? (I am not myself a psychologist, so perhaps don't understand.

Quote
3.   Western psychology based on personal believe and have not cleat standards.
I agree there's some element of personal opinion, but why is that a bad thing? Why expect  thousands of people to draw exactly the same conclusions?

Quote
4.   Western psychology try to just fit man in designed standards of social life them “believe”  as “normal”.
5.   them call it "normal" as it serve to government programme.

Such as? The government surely would prefer, if it could, to say autism doesn't exist either!

Quote
Man (Eugen Bleuler) who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.



So, western psychology create and develop enormous number of concepts and believe them are so great and good. Babylon tower.

I am not sure you are understanding the quotation correctly? The quotation you give is a warning to psychologists to do precisely what you objected to above - to be sceptical and to remember that there are no absolute relations between diagnosis and actual condition.

Quote
It is may lead to new way of discrimination and terror if needed. For all this diagnosis penetrating in governmental structure and law.
So it deadly corrupt and no way we can change it.

There is plenty of evidence in human history about what people with power can do and what way them use “psychology” to achieve own target.


Can you give me examples? I'm sure you are right but I'm struggling to think of anything specific to autism in this context.
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« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2010, 08:17:11 AM »

symptoms of autism are unreasonable, and lot of them in Christianity respect as achievement and natural human state.

What do you mean by 'unreasonable'? By the way, Autism is a natural human state, too.

Quote
I do respect there is some neurological illness but neurology is not psychology.

Normally neurological disease well spotted on 0 -3 months.

No, it isn't! Just off the top of my head, I can tell you that hearing loss caused by brain damage is virtually impossible to diagnose at that age (my friend's daughter has it).

Quote
Any future disorder most luckily is resolute of neglect and luck of good care, education and discipline.

I think that is a very offensive statement to make when some people on this thread have told you they or their families have this disorder. Are you really suggesting it is their fault?



Quote
And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God.
But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.


I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?
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« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2010, 08:30:44 AM »



Quote
I do respect there is some neurological illness but neurology is not psychology.

Normally neurological disease well spotted on 0 -3 months.

No, it isn't! Just off the top of my head, I can tell you that hearing loss caused by brain damage is virtually impossible to diagnose at that age (my friend's daughter has it).


My bad, I not make myself fully clear, again....:

If there is some big neurological problems it could be spotted by professionals as soon as child born.
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« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2010, 08:40:22 AM »



Quote
And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God.
But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.


I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it.
It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.
 
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« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2010, 08:56:24 AM »



Quote
And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God.
But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.


I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it.
It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.
 


I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.
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« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2010, 08:15:01 PM »



Quote
And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God.
But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.


I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it.
It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.
 


I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.
Your example with GP , nanny  and funeral is nothing to do with God nor religion.

You think, they believe…..
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« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2010, 08:40:00 PM »

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem.
And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww[/youtube]
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« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2010, 09:59:54 AM »

I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.
Your example with GP , nanny  and funeral is nothing to do with God nor religion.

You think, they believe…..


I'm sorry, I do not understand your reply at all. I've just told you an anecdote about faith and how it is not incompatible with being a medic. You reply that faith is nothing to do with God or religion?

Please, what do you mean?
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« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2010, 10:02:20 AM »

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem.
And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww[/youtube]

You are  probably right this is not the place to discuss this - not least because, to me I'm afraid I can't understand this post either on its own merits or in the context of this thread.

You still refer to 'unreal' illnesses when others who are more familiar have tried to explain about autism, and yet you provide no evidence for your point of view. This is not a sensible way to argue, I think.
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« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2010, 11:04:12 AM »

I work for a non-profit agency that provides human services--in our area, we mostly have children diagnosed with autism.

I understand what Alive is saying, that many "illnesses" of this world are tied to our spiritual illness. However, illness and disease of the body is a truly and real consequence of our fallen world. Mental illness and neural disorders are certainly real as our brains and brain chemistry can be just as diseased as our lungs or livers.

I worked with a child who has pervasive disorders, for no discernible reason. Another child has diagnoses that are probably due to maternal abuses of drugs and alcohol. They both received services under the diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. In the end, I really care what the paperwork says, as long as they are receiving the services that are most beneficial for them and their health.

That said, autism spectrum is certainly a real diagnosis (just maybe not applicable to those two.) Who knows what is causing it--from environmental contaminants that we are all exposed to in our modern society, to genetic triggers stemming from any number of possible causes.  Most of the time, the "treatment" these kids get is different/better educational approaches, counseling, and assistance from those who are there to remind them how to stay on task and how to act "normally" in social situations (like me.) It's certainly not a disservice, and it's not always chemical or with drugs (though there are DEFINITELY kids whom are helped by affecting incorrect brain chemistry).  It seems silly to continue to argue the opposite with someone who has never spent any time around someone with a diagnosis of autism--they have no idea what they are talking about.
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« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2010, 11:36:42 AM »

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem.
And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww[/youtube]

You are  probably right this is not the place to discuss this - not least because, to me I'm afraid I can't understand this post either on its own merits or in the context of this thread.

You still refer to 'unreal' illnesses when others who are more familiar have tried to explain about autism, and yet you provide no evidence for your point of view. This is not a sensible way to argue, I think.



Are you sure you wish to see true?



Eugen Bleuler, man who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.





He also make recommendation about “mentally ill” should have no posterity.

In 1933 “sterilization” law apply to 56,000 , by 1939 half of mil.

And of course you never heard about T-4 programme?

Diagnoses was fabricate people get “processed”.


Modern western psychology child of this programme and people who lead them.

And I not worry any more it may accrue again. It is already in work: ADD, ADHD, Autism, etc….



But it is not main point.
Point is western psychology is madness in God Eyes.

You cant understand it for you not Christian nor specialised in this field.

 If you truly search for God than we may have dialog, if not we just wasting each other time.
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« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2010, 11:48:20 AM »

Alive, your incoherent ramblings make no sense and waste everyone's time.   Angry
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« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2010, 11:56:12 AM »

I work for a non-profit agency that provides human services......
should i cry?



services that are most beneficial for them and their health.
Heal yourself first.




Mental illness and neural disorders are certainly real as our brains and brain chemistry can be just as diseased as our lungs or livers.
new wave of speculation and deception.




People , play with God is deadly for you.

you got warned.




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« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2010, 12:08:27 PM »

Alive, your incoherent ramblings make no sense and waste everyone's time.   Angry

Thanks for posting this. I was beginning to wonder why no-one else wanted to correct the picture Alive is giving, particularly since s/he seemed to be pretending there was some Orthodox sanction for this view.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd. I think I have been patient on this thread, and repeatedly attributed your frankly stupid posts to a language difficulty and my own misunderstanding. Do you not see that your incredible arrogance in this matter has no basis either in science or in Christianity - as the beautiful quotation about the value of medics above the thread can prove far better than I. I was a fool to have tried.
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« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2010, 12:18:44 PM »



Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.
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« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2010, 12:24:09 PM »



Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.
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« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2010, 12:31:04 PM »



Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.

Basic evidence was provided, you refuse to see them – it is pure your fall. Autism? ADD? ADHD? Diagnose your self by your own set criteria.

My diagnose: you present evidence that you not familia with Christianity(or pretend), and not capable(or not wish) for basic analysis.

Possibly some one well brainwash you. Sorry. 
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« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2010, 12:35:27 PM »



Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.

Basic evidence was provided, you refuse to see them – it is pure your fall. Autism? ADD? ADHD? Diagnose your self by your own set criteria.

My diagnose: you present evidence that you not familia with Christianity(or pretend), and not capable(or not wish) for basic analysis.

Possibly some one well brainwash you. Sorry. 


Ok. In English, 'evidence' is not a synonym for 'repeatedly-stated but groundless opinions and a side serving of rudeness'. Please: learn to communicate properly, read the Bible, go to your priest for basic advice. You will be able to get help and learn how to discuss these issues, but right now, you are not making any sense.
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« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2010, 01:04:50 PM »

Liz,

I skipped a whole lot of posts since my last post... But I just wanted to tell you that it's probably not worth your time to try and teach someone who is not willing to learn. If s/he does not believe in autism, ADD, or ADHD and thinks psychologists are useless, then so be it. I'm sure one day that God will teach him/her that this is as real as it gets and that medical professionals (and I use this term to refer to psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc.) play a major role is helping in the development of these children. I admire you for trying, though.

Pray for me,
Faith.
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« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2010, 01:16:13 PM »

Alive, your incoherent ramblings make no sense and waste everyone's time.   Angry

Thanks for posting this. I was beginning to wonder why no-one else wanted to correct the picture Alive is giving, particularly since s/he seemed to be pretending there was some Orthodox sanction for this view.

Alive is entitled to express her coherent opinion on Autism; however, she has (deliberately?) poorly communicated her opinion and tries to hide her opinion behind some pseudo-Christian authority masquerading itself as Orthodox Christianity.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd. I think I have been patient on this thread, and repeatedly attributed your frankly stupid posts to a language difficulty and my own misunderstanding. Do you not see that your incredible arrogance in this matter has no basis either in science or in Christianity - as the beautiful quotation about the value of medics above the thread can prove far better than I. I was a fool to have tried.

You tried your best; you're not a fool.   Smiley
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« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2010, 11:05:32 PM »

If s/he does not believe in autism, ADD, or ADHD 
It is not matter of “believe” but basic knowledge (which you ignore) any intelligent enough person (who get no brain washed) will easy recognise those deceptions.

Western psychology pseudo science used to deceive people and brain wash society by sophisticated and dishonest presentation.
Most western psychologists are ignorant and uneducated(pseudo educated) speculates.

ADD, ADHD, Autism etc – pure pseudo diagnosis and speculation.
There are real problem in those cases, but way it named, identify and presented are fraud.

Possibly it is biggest social fraud of 20-21 century. 
But people like you get well brain washed and need no God nor capeble to persiv reality way it is nor capable to perceive reality way it is.



thinks psychologists are useless, then so be it.


Global lie and deceptions are not ussless but highly dangerous.

power of lawlessness is already at work

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« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2010, 11:58:52 PM »

If s/he does not believe in autism, ADD, or ADHD 
It is not matter of “believe” but basic knowledge (which you ignore) any intelligent enough person (who get no brain washed) will easy recognise those deceptions.

Alive, if that's the case, then I humbly ask for your prayers.

Faith.
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« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2010, 12:01:05 AM »


You tried your best   Smiley
So pathetic, hypocritical and dishonest encouragement…..
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« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2010, 12:03:40 AM »


Alive, if that's the case, then I humbly ask for your prayers.

I do not promote magic.
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« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2010, 12:08:24 AM »


Alive, if that's the case, then I humbly ask for your prayers.

I do not promote magic.

Sorry... I didn't know asking for prayers meant asking for a magic trick. I'm not sure how that was misinterpreted or how you'd like me to respond. If I am worthy of being mentioned in your prayers, then I appreciate it. If I'm asking too much, just ignore my request. It's all good.

Pray for me,
Faith.
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« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2010, 12:36:29 AM »


Alive, if that's the case, then I humbly ask for your prayers.

I do not promote magic.

Sorry... I didn't know asking for prayers meant asking for a magic trick. I'm not sure how that was misinterpreted or how you'd like me to respond. If I am worthy of being mentioned in your prayers, then I appreciate it. If I'm asking too much, just ignore my request. It's all good.

Pray for me,
Faith.


I have no idea what pray means for you. 

But it is not hard for me to wish "God elaison  me and fath and i will we may understent each other and speak same in one heart. " Amin. actually it is what I try to achieve any way.
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« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2010, 12:39:38 AM »

…..Small problem…… God I am refer to may be not some one you refer to. Is it not problem for you?
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« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2010, 12:57:34 AM »


You tried your best   Smiley
So pathetic, hypocritical and dishonest encouragement…..

Ah, a coherent thought from you.  See, you are capable of coherent thought since I can understand you perfectly.   Roll Eyes

By the way, there's no such thing as "God elaison me."   Shocked
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« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2010, 01:19:13 AM »


You tried your best   Smiley
So pathetic, hypocritical and dishonest encouragement…..

Ah, a coherent thought from you.  See, you are capable of coherent thought since I can understand you perfectly.   Roll Eyes

By the way, there's no such thing as "God elaison me."   Shocked
To bad for you.
May you should establish such relation(elaison one) with God, and then you may perfectly understand  rest I  wrote above?
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« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2010, 01:34:43 AM »


You tried your best   Smiley
So pathetic, hypocritical and dishonest encouragement…..

Ah, a coherent thought from you.  See, you are capable of coherent thought since I can understand you perfectly.   Roll Eyes

By the way, there's no such thing as "God elaison me."   Shocked
To bad for you.
May you should establish such relation(elaison one) with God, and then you may perfectly understand  rest I  wrote above?

…..Small problem…… God I am refer to may be not some one you refer to. Is it not problem for you?

Are you God?   Huh
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« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2010, 06:21:50 AM »


You tried your best   Smiley
So pathetic, hypocritical and dishonest encouragement…..

Mods, is this not an ad hominem?
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« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2011, 10:08:01 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?
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« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2011, 10:17:21 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally

As are most peoples, I would guess...

Quote
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

No.  Smiley
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« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2011, 11:27:46 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink
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« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2011, 08:43:41 AM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

No, it is not and it still isn't fully understood just what causes autism/Asperger's Syndrome/conditions in that spectrum
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« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2011, 12:17:11 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.
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« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2011, 12:40:11 PM »

LOL.
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« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2011, 01:45:30 PM »

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink

My son also has Asperger Syndrome and is not possessed.

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« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2011, 01:52:26 PM »

Since my daughter was PDD-NOS, maybe that means that she just has a minor demon or something?
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« Reply #89 on: April 12, 2011, 02:06:31 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja
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« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2011, 02:35:53 PM »

I thought we were past the days when remotely appearing "not normal" meant demon possession?  Huh
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« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2011, 05:41:30 PM »

I thought we were past the days when remotely appearing "not normal" meant demon possession?  Huh

Not all demon posession appears like it does in Holywood movies.
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« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2011, 10:56:11 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja

Autism as illness real no more then any other human made fantasy.

Western psycho make it name to make living from it by fooling and brainwashing you and other by making no more then believe in it. Tham build windmills and than like Don Quixote fight it for your cost.

Matter of fact any human have mental disorder, apart of Jesus, so every one is autist than.

One aphorism say:
“ all humans mentally ill ,  and we splitting it into group :
1.   one who was diagnosed already
2.   those who was not diagnosed yet”
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« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2011, 10:56:53 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja

Autism as illness real no more then any other human made fantasy.
And how do you know this?
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« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2011, 11:18:25 PM »

I love when the severely under-qualified attempt to play doctor.
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« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2011, 11:53:58 AM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja

Autism as illness real no more then any other human made fantasy.
And how do you know this?

Psychology  researching human behaviour.
What human?
Animal - one of mammals?
Or
The God image?

Western modern psychology do not respect Christian value but focus on model of human presented by general majority behaviour standards. So from very beginning it have wrong orienteer and develop wrong concept.

Example: currently “homosexuals family” is not considered as illness but lawful social condition.
50 or 100 years from now people would get married to own pet ( as most of them are considered as part of family all ready any way), so it would normal to marred to cat or what ever.

1.   Each of us suffer from mental disorder as consequences of  false life style
2.   Generally most of us live and promote wrong life. 
3.   So general perception about life is wrong and most of commonly promoted values are lies.
4.   Any behaviour which not fit into socially promoted life concept and presented value – called “mental disorder.
5.   And if initial standards and concept are wrong – any diagnoses would be false too.
6.   Western psychology use “modern society standards” as fundamental model for diagnosis.
7.   It is common Christian knowledge  and perception that “common society values” in most cases have  antichristian ground and twisting and presenting life in wrong manner.   
8.   Based on initially wrong concept of life “western psychology” develop “special” criteria’s and standards to identify “abnormality” to pleased social concept of modern society.  It is corrupt system which yearly or late would lead to catastrophic outcome.

So ADD, ADHD, AUTISM and lot of other criteria’s was artificially developed as  Procrustean bed to serve and brain wash people and make us more animal than we already are to enslave human completely.

So psychological brain washing industry was developed to suit governmental needs for “better economic development” and “greater future”.

With “special psychological system” in place more easy to rule. government may diagnose any one who “need to be diagnosed with mental illness” to disarm this person and enforce pharmacological treatment to illuminate this individual. It is powerful governmental tool.

I saw to many kids who was misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD with future pharmacological treatment applied…. It is powerful governmental tool.

Some forgotten history lesson: 1-3 centuries Christians was killed as social evil (enemy of state). 
Soon enough new mental illness would be in medical arsenal “Christian”.

And new govermantal religions of “human well being” and “humanisation”, “economical grow” and “better future” – have no place to The God and Christianity.

It promote very health “have fun” and “take easy” conditions as model for any good citizen. 
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« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2011, 12:51:24 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja

Autism as illness real no more then any other human made fantasy.
And how do you know this?

Psychology  researching human behaviour.
What human?
Animal - one of mammals?
Or
The God image?

Western modern psychology do not respect Christian value but focus on model of human presented by general majority behaviour standards. So from very beginning it have wrong orienteer and develop wrong concept.

Example: currently “homosexuals family” is not considered as illness but lawful social condition.
50 or 100 years from now people would get married to own pet ( as most of them are considered as part of family all ready any way), so it would normal to marred to cat or what ever.

1.   Each of us suffer from mental disorder as consequences of  false life style
2.   Generally most of us live and promote wrong life.  
3.   So general perception about life is wrong and most of commonly promoted values are lies.
4.   Any behaviour which not fit into socially promoted life concept and presented value – called “mental disorder.
5.   And if initial standards and concept are wrong – any diagnoses would be false too.
6.   Western psychology use “modern society standards” as fundamental model for diagnosis.
7.   It is common Christian knowledge  and perception that “common society values” in most cases have  antichristian ground and twisting and presenting life in wrong manner.  
8.   Based on initially wrong concept of life “western psychology” develop “special” criteria’s and standards to identify “abnormality” to pleased social concept of modern society.  It is corrupt system which yearly or late would lead to catastrophic outcome.

So ADD, ADHD, AUTISM and lot of other criteria’s was artificially developed as  Procrustean bed to serve and brain wash people and make us more animal than we already are to enslave human completely.

So psychological brain washing industry was developed to suit governmental needs for “better economic development” and “greater future”.

With “special psychological system” in place more easy to rule. government may diagnose any one who “need to be diagnosed with mental illness” to disarm this person and enforce pharmacological treatment to illuminate this individual. It is powerful governmental tool.

I saw to many kids who was misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD with future pharmacological treatment applied…. It is powerful governmental tool.

Some forgotten history lesson: 1-3 centuries Christians was killed as social evil (enemy of state).  
Soon enough new mental illness would be in medical arsenal “Christian”.

And new govermantal religions of “human well being” and “humanisation”, “economical grow” and “better future” – have no place to The God and Christianity.

It promote very health “have fun” and “take easy” conditions as model for any good citizen.  
This only tells me what you know--or, should I say, what you think you know. What this does NOT tell me is HOW you know what you "know". What research have you done? Can you cite any important academic works you or someone else has written on the topic of psychology and mental illnesses/disorders? Can you give us any reason to deem you an authority on this subject, and without the ad hominems that seem to mark so many of your posts?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 12:58:24 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2011, 02:58:05 PM »

anyone know any good websites for helping to diagnose autism or aspergers?
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« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2011, 03:32:06 PM »

i answered my own question.
there is a score here which can help with diagnosis:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
but be careful, you might be shocked if you get a high score on the test!
and this is also useful:
http://www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/Diagnosis-the-process-for-adults.aspx

the important thing is that God uses all sort of people to build His kingdom, and having autism or asperger's disease does not mean you can't get a good job or be successful socially. it just takes more work, and God can give you the strength to do that hard work. may He bless us all and may we love and accept those who are different from us.
 Smiley
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« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2011, 04:39:50 PM »


the important thing is that God uses all sort of people to build His kingdom, and having autism or asperger's disease does not mean you can't get a good job or be successful socially. it just takes more work, and God can give you the strength to do that hard work. may He bless us all and may we love and accept those who are different from us.
 Smiley


Common and standard “Brain washing” banner.
It is so sad…..

our world most definitely going to hell and every one try present it as road  paradise.

Over and over and over and over….

 People, are you really taking this rubbish for real?
Have you ever touch Christianity (orthodoxy) in your life?
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« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2011, 04:40:44 PM »

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.
Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed. Wink


You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:
1.   there is not such “disease” as autism in reality.
2.   Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.
3.   If some possessed  people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.


Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.

As-Salamu alaykum,
zekarja

Autism as illness real no more then any other human made fantasy.
And how do you know this?

Psychology  researching human behaviour.
What human?
Animal - one of mammals?
Or
The God image?

Western modern psychology do not respect Christian value but focus on model of human presented by general majority behaviour standards. So from very beginning it have wrong orienteer and develop wrong concept.

Example: currently “homosexuals family” is not considered as illness but lawful social condition.
50 or 100 years from now people would get married to own pet ( as most of them are considered as part of family all ready any way), so it would normal to marred to cat or what ever.

1.   Each of us suffer from mental disorder as consequences of  false life style
2.   Generally most of us live and promote wrong life.  
3.   So general perception about life is wrong and most of commonly promoted values are lies.
4.   Any behaviour which not fit into socially promoted life concept and presented value – called “mental disorder.
5.   And if initial standards and concept are wrong – any diagnoses would be false too.
6.   Western psychology use “modern society standards” as fundamental model for diagnosis.
7.   It is common Christian knowledge  and perception that “common society values” in most cases have  antichristian ground and twisting and presenting life in wrong manner.  
8.   Based on initially wrong concept of life “western psychology” develop “special” criteria’s and standards to identify “abnormality” to pleased social concept of modern society.  It is corrupt system which yearly or late would lead to catastrophic outcome.

So ADD, ADHD, AUTISM and lot of other criteria’s was artificially developed as  Procrustean bed to serve and brain wash people and make us more animal than we already are to enslave human completely.

So psychological brain washing industry was developed to suit governmental needs for “better economic development” and “greater future”.

With “special psychological system” in place more easy to rule. government may diagnose any one who “need to be diagnosed with mental illness” to disarm this person and enforce pharmacological treatment to illuminate this individual. It is powerful governmental tool.

I saw to many kids who was misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD with future pharmacological treatment applied…. It is powerful governmental tool.

Some forgotten history lesson: 1-3 centuries Christians was killed as social evil (enemy of state).  
Soon enough new mental illness would be in medical arsenal “Christian”.

And new govermantal religions of “human well being” and “humanisation”, “economical grow” and “better future” – have no place to The God and Christianity.

It promote very health “have fun” and “take easy” conditions as model for any good citizen.  
This only tells me what you know--or, should I say, what you think you know. What this does NOT tell me is HOW you know what you "know". What research have you done? Can you cite any important academic works you or someone else has written on the topic of psychology and mental illnesses/disorders? Can you give us any reason to deem you an authority on this subject, and without the ad hominems that seem to mark so many of your posts?

HOW – study. 8 years of uny, 40 years of research. 
I give you some grounds for investigation, and look like it not suit you.

You ask me about thousands  years of research to be compressed into one post?
Are you kidding?

What do you know about psychology to speak about?
Can you classify human temperament accordingly NS typology with full description?
I guess not.
I doubt you ever learn even basic of it. 
After you learn basic we may have dialog, till than…. Exercise your sophistic on some one else. 


I heard one priest (doctor of theology) answer to one poor protestant boy who try challenge  about “Trinity Essence” matter:
“get sober, first, then we may talk”.
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« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2011, 10:51:28 PM »

i answered my own question.
there is a score here which can help with diagnosis:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
but be careful, you might be shocked if you get a high score on the test!
and this is also useful:
http://www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/Diagnosis-the-process-for-adults.aspx

the important thing is that God uses all sort of people to build His kingdom, and having autism or asperger's disease does not mean you can't get a good job or be successful socially. it just takes more work, and God can give you the strength to do that hard work. may He bless us all and may we love and accept those who are different from us.
 Smiley
You'll find a disproportionately high incidence of Aspergers Syndrome among IT professionals, so I know Aspies can find work, and good-paying work at that. Smiley Aspergers isn't known as the "Geek Syndrome" for nothing. Grin
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 12:29:12 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2011, 10:55:54 PM »

HOW – study. 8 years of uny, 40 years of research.  
I give you some grounds for investigation, and look like it not suit you.

You ask me about thousands  years of research to be compressed into one post?
Are you kidding?

What do you know about psychology to speak about?
Can you classify human temperament accordingly NS typology with full description?
I guess not.
I doubt you ever learn even basic of it.  
After you learn basic we may have dialog, till than…. Exercise your sophistic on some one else.  


I heard one priest (doctor of theology) answer to one poor protestant boy who try challenge  about “Trinity Essence” matter:
“get sober, first, then we may talk”.
I'm sorry you think you know so much about me. All I did was ask you a rather basic question any critical thinker should ask you. Why should we believe you? What fruit of your "research" can you present to us?

I also note that you couldn't answer my question without resorting to yet more personal attacks. When you have to tear down other people to make your case, one has to wonder just how strong your case really is.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:02:25 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #103 on: April 14, 2011, 12:04:16 AM »

HOW – study. 8 years of uny, 40 years of research. 

You studied for 8 years at a university?  Would you please tell us what school it was and what was subject was the focus of your learning?  Did you graduate from a university or college and, if so, at what degree level?  Just attending a school is not the same thing as fully learning and understanding a subject or discipline. How was your 40 years of research done, please?  Was it actually in neurology or psychology?  What are your qualifications to set out such flat statements without any support or documentation? 

Why should we trust and believe you to be right in this area?


Quote
Can you classify human temperament accordingly NS typology with full description?

Can you?  with full descriptions in clear English and without insults to those who do not accept your opinions?

I mean no offense with this last question, but what is your first language please?  Some of your writing in English is difficult to understand because of misspellings and odd word patterns that would not seem be those of a native speaker/writer. 

With Respect,

Ebor
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« Reply #104 on: April 14, 2011, 12:07:45 AM »

i answered my own question.
there is a score here which can help with diagnosis:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
but be careful, you might be shocked if you get a high score on the test!
and this is also useful:
http://www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/Diagnosis-the-process-for-adults.aspx

the important thing is that God uses all sort of people to build His kingdom, and having autism or asperger's disease does not mean you can't get a good job or be successful socially. it just takes more work, and God can give you the strength to do that hard work. may He bless us all and may we love and accept those who are different from us.
 Smiley

Very good post.  Smiley
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« Reply #105 on: April 14, 2011, 09:11:45 AM »


I'm sorry you think you know so much about me. All I did was ask you a rather basic question any critical thinker should ask you. Why should we believe you? What fruit of your "research" can you present to us?

I also note that you couldn't answer my question without resorting to yet more personal attacks. When you have to tear down other people to make your case, one has to wonder just how strong your case really is.

I'm sorry you think you know so much about me. All I did was ask you a rather basic question any critical thinker should ask you. Why should we believe you? What fruit of your "research" can you present to us?

I also note that you couldn't answer my question without resorting to yet more personal attacks. When you have to tear down other people to make your case, one has to wonder just how strong your case really is.

I do appreciate critical approach, but i not see any reasonable quality question was raised.

you concern about I to pushy , and personal. i was not mean to abuse you. i try to make clear statements about matter i concern, and express it in simple words, so i do appreciate if you may criticise statement accordingly with quality counterargument if you know basic nature of those issues.

and more
1. what is "believe"? believe is form of perception.
2. it is not form of aceppting things with out see it.( as usualy people present it)
3.  you may not believe even in what you see . so it mean you refuse to accept things you “see” (experienced). And I know lot of people do not  accept things even after experienced them a lot. 

So i not forcing you to accept blindly, lets talk. Lets have dialog.

so in some one refuse accepted some information then them should present quality country argument. i not see any counter argument about any raised matters.

 i do appreciate if you can make one.


Ones again I do apologies if I offended you, I not mean to do so, just was try to make things straight.
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« Reply #106 on: April 14, 2011, 09:24:23 AM »

Autism is simply not comparable to ADD/ ADHD. If you've spent even a couple hours with children with autism, you'd know that, even if no one uttered the word "autism."
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« Reply #107 on: April 14, 2011, 12:15:19 PM »

Autism is simply not comparable to ADD/ ADHD. If you've spent even a couple hours with children with autism, you'd know that, even if no one uttered the word "autism."

Autism is fake as well as ADD /ADHD.

Other set of characteristics involved to speculate on, but still it is fake.
If dawn syndrome was not research so well it would be part of ASD.

There are some kids with who have problems with number of reason (was droped, drugs, radiation etc), and now it is super category set “autism” ….   for every one (NOT KIDS ONLY)

But if you follow link from above you will find it is primarily not for kids.
Main issue “socialisation”.
so every one who not fit into society or not respect “modern society value” soon ( or all ready ) could be claim as autist. 

And would not surprise if soon,  “researchers” would “find” special gen responsible for ASD, and “hello sterilisation” etc.
Prospective “control of population” would welcome you soon enough for purpose to “build better future”.

Lot of country sterilise doun till now – yes.

Welcome to great future of hell.
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« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2011, 06:26:15 PM »

If dawn syndrome was not research so well it would be part of ASD.

Do you mean "Down Syndrome"?  If so how would you see that condition as in any way "part of ASD"? 

What do you know about Down Syndrome?  Can you describe it and its cause?

I asked you some questions in my post to you above.  Would you please answer them such as what college or university you attended for 8 years and whether you graduated?  What was your field of study?

Why should your dictates be accepted as Truth?

Ebor
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« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2011, 07:23:41 PM »

There are some kids with who have problems with number of reason (was droped, drugs, radiation etc)

And then there are some kids who had none of this and who have autism.
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« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2011, 09:15:04 AM »

There are genetic factors.  Current studies show that it is most likely caused by a combination of several genes.

I personally know a researcher who worked on the Autism Genome Project.  They have identified several genetic components.  It isn't just one gene.  It is a combination of at least 6 genes (possibly more).  That is why it is so complex.

They have also linked structural differences in the brain to ASDs.  My husband's godfather has written extensively on this subject.
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« Reply #111 on: April 20, 2011, 03:36:59 AM »

There are genetic factors.  Current studies show that it is most likely caused by a combination of several genes.

I personally know a researcher who worked on the Autism Genome Project.  They have identified several genetic components.  It isn't just one gene.  It is a combination of at least 6 genes (possibly more).  That is why it is so complex.

They have also linked structural differences in the brain to ASDs.  My husband's godfather has written extensively on this subject.


No one know what is autism.
as It have not clear criteria.

By description all humans are autists and Christianity promote autism.


…. And people say it is genetically….

It is lie and speculation and medical fraud and brainwashing of ignorant population.


There are not such illness as autism.

There are same people who have extreme level of communication issue, which may have absolutely different cause and absolutely unrelated and all of them would be identify as autists because all of them have simular response to irritant. 

It is froud.

People pretend them know brain – fraud.
People (especially psychologists, psychotherapists etc. ) paly gods, and build “Babylon tower” from deception and misinterpretation to substitute the God.

Them say:
“God no one to us, we have great mouth …. We will take advantage from poor people….”
Read more psalms.

Modern “western psychology” develop specially for brain washing purpose and it opposing values promoted by Christianity.

Western Psychology  full of speculation and deception – in reality it is religion.
And current  autism fraud – one more evidence of it.
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« Reply #112 on: April 20, 2011, 12:56:49 PM »

No one know what is autism.
as It have not clear criteria.

By description all humans are autists autistic and Christianity promote autism.

So based on your "description" of autism, you're not a Christian?   Huh  Now I understand....   Smiley

Have a Happy Passover.   Wink
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« Reply #113 on: April 20, 2011, 02:53:17 PM »

There are genetic factors.  Current studies show that it is most likely caused by a combination of several genes.

I personally know a researcher who worked on the Autism Genome Project.  They have identified several genetic components.  It isn't just one gene.  It is a combination of at least 6 genes (possibly more).  That is why it is so complex.

They have also linked structural differences in the brain to ASDs.  My husband's godfather has written extensively on this subject.


No one know what is autism.
as It have not clear criteria.

By description all humans are autists and Christianity promote autism.


…. And people say it is genetically….

It is lie and speculation and medical fraud and brainwashing of ignorant population.


There are not such illness as autism.

There are same people who have extreme level of communication issue, which may have absolutely different cause and absolutely unrelated and all of them would be identify as autists because all of them have simular response to irritant. 

It is froud.

People pretend them know brain – fraud.
People (especially psychologists, psychotherapists etc. ) paly gods, and build “Babylon tower” from deception and misinterpretation to substitute the God.

Them say:
“God no one to us, we have great mouth …. We will take advantage from poor people….”
Read more psalms.

Modern “western psychology” develop specially for brain washing purpose and it opposing values promoted by Christianity.

Western Psychology  full of speculation and deception – in reality it is religion.
And current  autism fraud – one more evidence of it.

Do you really think anyone here should take you seriously as long as you refuse to answer Ebor's and my questions as to why we should take you seriously?
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« Reply #114 on: April 20, 2011, 04:19:58 PM »

Autism technically is not a disease. Just like "alcoholism", depression, BPD, etc. are not. Read up on etiology. There are differences among diseases, disorders, syndromes, etc.

However, that does not mean that because something has not yet been classified as a disease that is does not have obvious and diagnosable symptoms. There is a much more subjective role in the diagnosis of disorders and syndromes. In the end, whatever the diagnosis is, it is whether the treatment the patient is undergoing is working or not that matters.

Often because the diagnosis and treatment of syndromes and disorders are much more subjective than the diagnosis of a disease, they frustrate the patient and their loved ones to find causes and treatments which have no validity. In autism for example, you saw this in the hysteria about vaccines "causing" autism.

Unfortunately, many non-authorities ("alternative medicine" practitioners) take advantage of the frustrations of the patients afflicted with syndromes and disorders and create or "rediscover" treatments for the illnesses to bilk people out of their money.

Lord have mercy on those afflicted with autism and those touched by the suffering surrounding it.



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« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2011, 12:28:04 AM »

Quote
Communication
People with autism sometimes find it difficult to express themselves emotionally and socially. For example, they may:

have difficulty understanding
-   gestures,
-   facial expressions or
-   tone of voice
-   have difficulty knowing when to start or end a conversation
-   choosing topics to talk about
-   use complex words phrases but may not fully understand what they mean
-   be very literal in what they say
-   can have difficulty understanding jokes,
-   metaphor
-   sarcasm





“People with autism sometimes…” – “sometimes” – not objective criteria.


“…. difficult to express:   have difficulty understanding…..” – express or understanding?
What kind “specialists” do not differentiate those two and make them synonyms?

So people who published it all ready mix-up things and peculation.

And all presented above criteria not objective. So it means if “doctor” need, he may fit just about any one into those description including Jesus Christ.



Autism - fake.
True : we are all mentally ill (IT IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY PRESENTING) ......... but "autism" speculation is some extreme social speculation of 3rd millennium.


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« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2011, 01:48:35 AM »

Quote
Communication
People with autism sometimes find it difficult to express themselves emotionally and socially. For example, they may:

have difficulty understanding
-   gestures,
-   facial expressions or
-   tone of voice
-   have difficulty knowing when to start or end a conversation
-   choosing topics to talk about
-   use complex words phrases but may not fully understand what they mean
-   be very literal in what they say
-   can have difficulty understanding jokes,
-   metaphor
-   sarcasm





“People with autism sometimes…” – “sometimes” – not objective criteria.


“…. difficult to express:   have difficulty understanding…..” – express or understanding?
What kind “specialists” do not differentiate those two and make them synonyms?

So people who published it all ready mix-up things and peculation.

And all presented above criteria not objective. So it means if “doctor” need, he may fit just about any one into those description including Jesus Christ.



Autism - fake.
True : we are all mentally ill (IT IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY PRESENTING) ......... but "autism" speculation is some extreme social speculation of 3rd millennium.
And yet you continue to avoid answering the tough questions: Who are you? And why should we take you seriously?
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« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2011, 03:34:49 AM »

Quote
Communication
People with autism sometimes find it difficult to express themselves emotionally and socially. For example, they may:

have difficulty understanding
-   gestures,
-   facial expressions or
-   tone of voice
-   have difficulty knowing when to start or end a conversation
-   choosing topics to talk about
-   use complex words phrases but may not fully understand what they mean
-   be very literal in what they say
-   can have difficulty understanding jokes,
-   metaphor
-   sarcasm





“People with autism sometimes…” – “sometimes” – not objective criteria.


“…. difficult to express:   have difficulty understanding…..” – express or understanding?
What kind “specialists” do not differentiate those two and make them synonyms?

So people who published it all ready mix-up things and peculation.

And all presented above criteria not objective. So it means if “doctor” need, he may fit just about any one into those description including Jesus Christ.



Autism - fake.
True : we are all mentally ill (IT IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY PRESENTING) ......... but "autism" speculation is some extreme social speculation of 3rd millennium.





And yet you continue to avoid answering the tough questions: Who are you? And why should we take you seriously?





If you not able (can’t or do not want)  to analyse information above, than no matter who presenting it: professor or fisherman.  
I make valid statement in simple format any one can read and comprehends. Some one not like it cos it ruining them social concept…..  well…. Social concept of this world have no place for God, and western psychology – great fake, which was developed to brain wash general public.  



if angel from heaven came down and make false statements, than what apostle recommend to do?
And you ask my credentials?
So what you looking for? True or credentials?

If you can oppose above statements with quality counter arguments – I do welcome it, go ahead.
But if you one who take for true any thing “president” say because he is “president” …or...Pop of rome - always right..... woe to you. social brain washing work well for you than.








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« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2011, 08:49:43 AM »

Alive - My wife works with "autistic" children in the special education section of our schools.  I tend to agree with much of your analysis of the syndrome, but not completely.  There are some people who function much differently than the "norm", and who see things in a different manner than the so-called norm.  I don't believe that autism is fake as much as I believe that there is a great tendency to put a label on anything that we don't understand or agree with, and right now "autism" is the catch all bucket that we throw people into, just like ADHD was ten years ago.  I did not believe that half of the people diagnosed with ADHD had it, and I don't believe that half of the so-called autistic children are really such.  I am wary of so called "spectrum" disorders since they indicate to me that what the professionals are really saying is "we really have no idea what is wrong with this person".  Half of the ADHD and "autism" that I have seen could have been corrected by a couple of good spankings when the child was younger.

And what of those people who really do have a disorder (possibly even autism)?  How is there any hope for a cure when modern science denies that there is even a God, so there is no room to even consider that an autistic person may be under the influence of a demon.  I have heard many discussions by liberals that try to give modern medical tags to what the scriptures call demon possession.  Did Christ cast a demon out of the boy that the disciples could not, or did He cure an epileptic?  I have heard modernist Orthodox priests claim the latter.  Yet, the scriptures call it a demon, and even the all knowing God in the form of Jesus Christ said "this kind can only be cast out by prayer and fasting."  My wife sees this in her classes every day.  All of the kids are "autistic", as diagnosed by someone.  Yet in reality, only a couple exhibit any kind of real clinical problem outside of undisciplined behavior.  Many of the rest are simply what would have been called in years passed, retarded.  Even then, are they really retarded, or just a byproduct of a school system that aims toward mediocrity and cannot deal with a person who tends to think in a manner different from what the books say they should?

I don't know the answer, and much of what I believe about this is open to me changing my mind, IF someone comes up with something worth listening to.  However, I am not ready to discount autism or any other syndrome as completely fake, either.  There are things (like viruses and bacteria) that make us sick, and God has shown us ways to heal those using physical means such as medicine.  I believe that there are mental disorders that also have physical causes.  God may also grant us the knowledge to heal those.  However, I also believe that we would have fewer of these "disorders" if we, as a society, were closer to God and did a better job of living our lives in accordance with his statutes.  As our society becomes more and more sick and corrupt, is it any wonder that our people also become so?
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« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2011, 11:07:19 AM »

I do aperitive your time and like to make few comments latter on on, but for know (as need to go) would make just one:
However, I also believe that we would have fewer of these "disorders" if we, as a society, were closer to God and did a better job of living our lives in accordance with his statutes.  As our society becomes more and more sick and corrupt, is it any wonder that our people also become so?
Ones, our society was close to God and we did?

We crucified Him.


our society hate God and it not about to change EVER.




As our society becomes more and more sick and corrupt, is it any wonder that our people also become so?
Before and now all same, all same ..... same Hristos, same Job and same satana..... and same people build tower..... and same people say "we have great mouth , who is God for us?" as it was in David time....and such "doctors" make up "autism" and FORCE other fanatically believe it is real.
Blind lead blind.


"mad man say  - there is not God".

and Godless people "discover" ADHD and ADD and AUTISM....Pavlov was not godless, he was orthodox( as wel as Sechenov), and he is "father" of real psychology. Some people who "play autism card" absolutly ignorant in Pavlov works etc, and most of them never even heard about sechenov....they know no basic but try to operate on high performance level .... madness.

also psychology is related to pedagogy, and pedagogy in the west is dead.  
and if some one (who do not know how and what for) try to reanimate person who was dead for years..... those people are mad....


they build deception and promote lie and other take it because of "doctor" say so... blind leading blind....
why any one develop believe on them ignorence?
I KNOW who i believe at (ap. Paul). and I know what i believe at. It is not what those people try to sale. not even close.

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« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2011, 12:16:11 PM »

Quote
Communication
People with autism sometimes find it difficult to express themselves emotionally and socially. For example, they may:

have difficulty understanding
-   gestures,
-   facial expressions or
-   tone of voice
-   have difficulty knowing when to start or end a conversation
-   choosing topics to talk about
-   use complex words phrases but may not fully understand what they mean
-   be very literal in what they say
-   can have difficulty understanding jokes,
-   metaphor
-   sarcasm





“People with autism sometimes…” – “sometimes” – not objective criteria.


“…. difficult to express:   have difficulty understanding…..” – express or understanding?
What kind “specialists” do not differentiate those two and make them synonyms?

So people who published it all ready mix-up things and peculation.

And all presented above criteria not objective. So it means if “doctor” need, he may fit just about any one into those description including Jesus Christ.



Autism - fake.
True : we are all mentally ill (IT IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY PRESENTING) ......... but "autism" speculation is some extreme social speculation of 3rd millennium.





And yet you continue to avoid answering the tough questions: Who are you? And why should we take you seriously?





If you not able (can’t or do not want)  to analyse information above, than no matter who presenting it: professor or fisherman.
You're continuing to deflect criticism of your teaching authority by making unfounded accusations of those who question you. Just answer my question. Who are you, and why should we take you seriously? I'm willing to analyze the information currently available about autism and from most every viewpoint, but I fail to understand why I should heed anything YOU say on the matter when you haven't yet established your credibility to speak with the authority you claim for yourself.

I make valid statement in simple format any one can read and comprehends.
The validity of your statements is very much under question here, and by more than just me. What makes your statement valid?

Some one not like it cos it ruining them social concept…..  well….
I've never expressed my social concept in this discussion, so how can you presume to know the above about me without making stupid assumptions?

Social concept of this world have no place for God, and western psychology – great fake, which was developed to brain wash general public.  



if angel from heaven came down and make false statements, than what apostle recommend to do?
And you ask my credentials?
How do we know you're not an angel come down from heaven to make false statements?

So what you looking for? True or credentials?

If you can oppose above statements with quality counter arguments – I do welcome it, go ahead.
But if you one who take for true any thing “president” say because he is “president” …or...Pop of rome - always right..... woe to you. social brain washing work well for you than.
I take NOTHING as true just because someone says it is. It doesn't matter if he be the president, the Pope of Rome, or even an angel. Why should I make an exception for you?
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« Reply #121 on: April 29, 2011, 12:44:05 AM »

I take NOTHING as true just because someone says it is. It doesn't matter if he be the president, the Pope of Rome, or even an angel. Why should I make an exception for you?

I have present valid arguments about world wide “autism” deception.

You may oppose it if can.

But so far you were not able to present any thing at all….
My guess – you ignorant in such matter and not capable to discuss those issue accordingly.
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« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2011, 11:26:21 PM »


And what of those people who really do have a disorder (possibly even autism)?  

Of course people have disorder.
No doubt.
All people have one.
Less or more.
But it is wrong to use "autism" criteria.  

Autism criteria fake and deception.
As well as it name itself.


In reality , ALL people without exception have mental disorder.
It is official Christian statement.


It progressing from “day one” until death.
And christianity have criteria which indicating kind of illness, level of it and therapeutical recommendation.

Our fathers researched those illnesses for thousandths years and present valid criteria of identification and recommendation how to battle it and where look for curing.  



And it is obvious, that Autism speculation present fake unrelated criteria. It is absurd.
Also range of those criteria would fit all humans with no exception.

Also autism target some key Christian virtue as illness, and present illness as “normality”.

Autism “criteria” developed to suit any “social concept” enforced by governing elite.
Any one who not accept promoted “social value” will be identify as mentally ill.



Some people have low intellectual capacity ,  so now them would be identify as autists.
as well as:
All New Born babies – autists.
Most of Older people – autists.
People who refuse madness of this world - autists.
And we may continue this list for long.

Non autist would be only those who could lie well, pretend or give up personal valuers to fit well into dominant social concept.

Western Psychology is not science - It is New Religion, indorsed by government and army of ignorant and poor educated priest, who payed to do job.
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« Reply #123 on: April 29, 2011, 11:56:10 PM »

How is there any hope for a cure when modern science denies that there is even a God
What science ?
No science have capacity to do it.

Even more ascetic – science  based of relationship with God.
Theology – same.
And this list could be long.

Modern western psychology is not science – it is social religion.
Modern western psychology ignoring and despites fundamentals discovered by Pavlov and build it operational on social requirements to serve  political gameplay.
 
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« Reply #124 on: April 30, 2011, 12:14:13 AM »

no room to even consider that an autistic person may be under the influence of a demon. 

we all under influence of a demon. or you doubt?

Them ignore it , not deny it. It is deferent.

Them ignore God for number of reasons and one of them social concept of modern world do not wish God exist .
For God interfere pleasure them make profit of and live by.
Pleasuer it basic IDOL.

If you not wish do not consider some one as valid – you ignore him. - basic rules of every day life.
It is exactly what modern world do  with GOD.
and western psychology lawful servant modern world , so act same:
Ignore the God to make profit of lust(pleasure).



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« Reply #125 on: April 30, 2011, 04:06:14 AM »

I take NOTHING as true just because someone says it is. It doesn't matter if he be the president, the Pope of Rome, or even an angel. Why should I make an exception for you?

I have present valid arguments about world wide “autism” deception.
Usually, if you want to persuade others of the truth of your assertions, you either have to establish what makes you an authority on what you say or else cite others whom we recognize as authoritative. After all, when we want to convince other Christians of the truth of the Church's teaching, do we not cite the Apostles and the Scriptures as our authority? Sure, the truth of your statements may stand on its own, but it still needs a believable witness to be recognized as truth. As long as you refuse to establish your own authority or refuse to cite other recognized authorities, your arguments will not be taken seriously.

You may oppose it if can.

But so far you were not able to present any thing at all….
My guess – you ignorant in such matter and not capable to discuss those issue accordingly.
And your guess would be wrong.
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« Reply #126 on: April 30, 2011, 05:25:19 AM »

....want to convince other Christians of the truth of the Church's teaching....
Sound odd.


You may oppose it if can.

But so far you were not able to present any thing at all….
My guess – you ignorant in such matter and not capable to discuss those issue accordingly.
And your guess would be wrong.

If some one not presenting valid arguments, what reason to keep engage into dialog?
So far you not present any.
…and you cant present valid argument for reason of……???

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" (John 18 23)

Can you?

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« Reply #127 on: April 30, 2011, 03:20:20 PM »

....want to convince other Christians of the truth of the Church's teaching....
Sound odd.


You may oppose it if can.

But so far you were not able to present any thing at all….
My guess – you ignorant in such matter and not capable to discuss those issue accordingly.
And your guess would be wrong.

If some one not presenting valid arguments, what reason to keep engage into dialog?
Maybe you should ask yourself that question.

So far you not present any.
Neither have you.

…and you cant present valid argument for reason of……???
Because I don't want to. I'm here to challenge you to support your assertions, which you have not done.

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" (John 18 23)

Can you?
If Jesus Christ Himself were to post on this forum, I would probably still question Him as I have questioned you just to make sure He is Whom He says He is and has the authority He claims for Himself. You're not Jesus, so why should you not be expected to stand up to the same scrutiny?
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« Reply #128 on: April 30, 2011, 05:38:30 PM »

I agree that true science and true religion are never in disagreement.  What passes for science these days is not science, or it would acknowledge the true God.  As to modern Western psychology, I consider it little better than witchcraft.  I spent some time volunteering in an asylum, an old Kirkbride building in Southern Illinois.  What a sad place.  The influence of the devil was strong in that place.

How is there any hope for a cure when modern science denies that there is even a God
What science ?
No science have capacity to do it.

Even more ascetic – science  based of relationship with God.
Theology – same.
And this list could be long.

Modern western psychology is not science – it is social religion.
Modern western psychology ignoring and despites fundamentals discovered by Pavlov and build it operational on social requirements to serve  political gameplay.
 

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« Reply #129 on: April 30, 2011, 05:43:20 PM »

I do not doubt that we are all influenced by demons.  The issue is to what degree.  Those who do not know God have no defense against the evil one and his army.  Those of us that do know Him are continuously engaged in battle with the evil one.  C. S. Lewis once said that the greatest triumph of the devil was to convince man that he did not exist.  I am still pondering over your words regarding autism, and whether or not it is real or fake.  However, I have no doubt about the truth of your words below.

no room to even consider that an autistic person may be under the influence of a demon. 

we all under influence of a demon. or you doubt?

Them ignore it , not deny it. It is deferent.

Them ignore God for number of reasons and one of them social concept of modern world do not wish God exist .
For God interfere pleasure them make profit of and live by.
Pleasuer it basic IDOL.

If you not wish do not consider some one as valid – you ignore him. - basic rules of every day life.
It is exactly what modern world do  with GOD.
and western psychology lawful servant modern world , so act same:
Ignore the God to make profit of lust(pleasure).




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« Reply #130 on: April 30, 2011, 09:11:43 PM »

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" (John 18 23)

Can you?



If Jesus Christ Himself were to post on this forum, I would probably still question Him as I have questioned you just to make sure He is Whom He says He is and has the authority He claims for Himself. You're not Jesus, so why should you not be expected to stand up to the same scrutiny?

You not along and have great teaches as role model to learn from follow to:
Quote

the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto Him as He was teaching and said, "By what authority doest thou these things? And who gave thee this authority?"

look like your learn your lesson well.
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« Reply #131 on: April 30, 2011, 10:20:12 PM »

I agree that true science and true religion are never in disagreement.  What passes for science these days is not science, or it would acknowledge the true God.  As to modern Western psychology, I consider it little better than witchcraft. 

Depending what kind science.
Big number of researches nor related even to each other, what way them should conceder God?
 It is not allways logical.
To be good pilot it is not required having great cooking skill.

Monkey can cycle with out pray to God.
Mechanics have not much to do with theology or ascetics.
… and we may continue this comparation  on and on and on …

But psychology – is targeting our life perception and oparation.
It is targeting reason of life.
It is targeting life values.
It is targeting individual relationship with God or idol(he choos as god) – Religion.
It is targeting teaching about such relation – Religious teaching.


So it is worse then witchcraft. Witch craft to naïve….
 Modern social system of most simple and effective tool of brain washing and deception development than any witchcraft ever.

Not witchcraft conquer “empires”, start the wars, change history.
Man did.

BUT No one can conquer Christianity, it is idiot proof.
Many emperor try - faild.
Pop try - faild.
Protistants try - faild.

To many try and crush them tooths.
.
To many Holly fathers was exposed to the world over few millenniums period and it imposible to challenge them experience and research. 

Maximum what them can do – is to play ignorant as we can see it from above.

They have governmental power to ignore it, and then need no challenge it.

- Make new language
- Change terminology,
- substitute meaning
- make new standards,
- etc

“Have fun” – love stupidity.
“Taka it easy” – do not take life seriously,
“live life full” – full of lust.

It is main social valuer promoted by new world religion.

And if any one disagree , it considerd as mental problems:
- have difficulty understanding (all above autism criteria) –
not understent real social value, jokes etc:  clear sign of autism.

And It is just small part of all criteria of autism deception.

It is Great tool: identify real Christian values and virtues as mental illness and people will never look upon.
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« Reply #132 on: April 30, 2011, 10:46:16 PM »

C. S. Lewis once said that the greatest triumph of the devil was to convince man that he did not exist.  I am still pondering over your words regarding autism, and whether or not it is real or fake.  However, I have no doubt about the truth of your words below.




I not see any connection Lewis fantasy with autism issue we talking about.
People make up fantasy (autism) and established fake(deceptive and not objective) criteria, so all them work – fake and deception.

I never deny reality of mental illness.
We are all mentally ill.

If you read , above statements it is presents basic evidence of deception about  fundamental autism concept.

Autism concept nothing less but “social fraud” and speculation.

If I make statement : “ man, you going to die!”
Is it making me “prophet”?
No – every one going to die – it is common knowledge.


Same with autism.
If every one mentally ill (and it is reality) - you can take just about any human and diagnose him with autism.


So now it up to “new religion” “graduated priests” to identify your mental as well as social status.
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« Reply #133 on: April 30, 2011, 10:57:41 PM »

My quote from Lewis was not in regards to autism, but toward science in general.  They deny the whole spiritual world.  If there is no God, then there is no devil either.  And if there is no God or devil, then man must be his own god.  Blasphemy!  Although, maybe they do not deny or ignore it after all.  Why would they try so hard, as they do here in America, to deny God?  Don't you first have to acknowledge the existence of something in order to deny it?  No, they are not ignoring God, they are warring against Him. 

C. S. Lewis once said that the greatest triumph of the devil was to convince man that he did not exist.  I am still pondering over your words regarding autism, and whether or not it is real or fake.  However, I have no doubt about the truth of your words below.




I not see any connection Lewis fantasy with autism issue we talking about.
People make up fantasy (autism) and established fake(deceptive and not objective) criteria, so all them work – fake and deception.

I never deny reality of mental illness.
We are all mentally ill.

If you read , above statements it is presents basic evidence of deception about  fundamental autism concept.

Autism concept nothing less but “social fraud” and speculation.

If I make statement : “ man, you going to die!”
Is it making me “prophet”?
No – every one going to die – it is common knowledge.


Same with autism.
If every one mentally ill (and it is reality) - you can take just about any human and diagnose him with autism.


So now it up to “new religion” “graduated priests” to identify your mental as well as social status.

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« Reply #134 on: April 30, 2011, 11:04:30 PM »

Don't you first have to acknowledge the existence of something in order to deny it? 

I don't believe in invisible pink unicorns, yet I don't think that lack of belief (or even denial of existence) demonstrates that they must exist...
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« Reply #135 on: April 30, 2011, 11:08:23 PM »

I do not doubt that we are all influenced by demons.  The issue is to what degree

degree???

First of all we under influence of our own lust kind.
Then demons.

So fist we need deal with flesh corruption, life goals, basic virtues before even may discuss any possible demonic influence.

People mix spiritual perception with flashy one.
Most of us have no idea about spiritual but use this word and speculate on it:
-   spiritual life
-   spiritual wellbeing
-   spiritual health
-   spiritual reading

It is same as some one not develop basic fitness but going to high performance event.


So before we may even touch demonic matter we need to sort out:
- our social concept,
- our life style
- and life perception – what is real core of any mental illness.

And as soon we start sorting out “flesh” corruption , demons would expose it self in full.
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« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2011, 11:12:08 PM »

It does not mean that they exist, only that someone believes they exist.  The thought of pink unicorns never crossed my mind until you brought it up.  So, now the thought of pink unicorns exsists, and I can rail against it.  Of course, I don't rail against them because I know that they don't exist in reality (or at leat I think they don't), and there is no need for me to disprove their existence because I don't care.  Now, if I started to rail against them, and you for believing in them, pink unicorns would start to become a part of my reality, else why would I spend so much time on the subject.

On the other hand, this whole conversation could simply mean that I have worked far too many consecutive night shifts with little sleep in between and now my brain has become like an emense fish, wet and slimy with gills through which it can see.  Sometimes these gills become clogged, causing me to accept some ideas and reject others.  This causes a condition known as whooping cough . . . or is it autism?  laugh


Don't you first have to acknowledge the existence of something in order to deny it? 

I don't believe in invisible pink unicorns, yet I don't think that lack of belief (or even denial of existence) demonstrates that they must exist...

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« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2011, 11:36:44 PM »

.... science in general.  They deny the whole spiritual world......  
Never see any official science apart “scientific communism” (what is not science but USSR propaganda) which make any such statement.


Although, maybe they do not deny or ignore it after all.  Why would they try so hard, as they do here in America, to deny God?  .......  No, they are not ignoring God, they are warring against Him.  
They? Who ?
Any official statement?

And what god? or God?
what way?

….

But is not issue we dicass here please.

Lets back to autism issue.








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« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2011, 11:42:44 PM »

It does not mean that they exist, only that someone believes they exist.  The thought of pink unicorns never crossed my mind until you brought it up.  So, now the thought of pink unicorns exsists, and I can rail against it.  Of course, I don't rail against them because I know that they don't exist in reality (or at leat I think they don't), and there is no need for me to disprove their existence because I don't care.  Now, if I started to rail against them, and you for believing in them, pink unicorns would start to become a part of my reality, else why would I spend so much time on the subject.



Not  “pink unicorns would start to become a part of my reality” ,  but your mental opposition to “unexciting pink unicorns would” be come reality.

So same as with autism.

Not autism is real but:
-   Fake criteria for “autism” is real.
-   People who enforce this fraud are real
-   Power behind of this project is real


There are real evidence about autism as deception  – are real same as you real opposition to  “unexciting pink unicorns would’.




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« Reply #139 on: April 30, 2011, 11:56:56 PM »

Alive, what university did you study at for 8 years? Where did you do your research for 40 years?
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« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2011, 01:24:38 AM »

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" (John 18 23)

Can you?



If Jesus Christ Himself were to post on this forum, I would probably still question Him as I have questioned you just to make sure He is Whom He says He is and has the authority He claims for Himself. You're not Jesus, so why should you not be expected to stand up to the same scrutiny?

You not along and have great teaches as role model to learn from follow to:
Quote

the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto Him as He was teaching and said, "By what authority doest thou these things? And who gave thee this authority?"

look like your learn your lesson well.
The Pharisees who questioned Jesus questioned Him to His face. You I've never seen before save for your posts on the Internet.
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« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2011, 09:26:44 PM »

And this has what to do with the price of tea in China?  I thought the Gospel reading for today was kind of appropriate. 

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" (John 18 23)

Can you?



If Jesus Christ Himself were to post on this forum, I would probably still question Him as I have questioned you just to make sure He is Whom He says He is and has the authority He claims for Himself. You're not Jesus, so why should you not be expected to stand up to the same scrutiny?

You not along and have great teaches as role model to learn from follow to:
Quote

the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto Him as He was teaching and said, "By what authority doest thou these things? And who gave thee this authority?"

look like your learn your lesson well.
The Pharisees who questioned Jesus questioned Him to His face. You I've never seen before save for your posts on the Internet.
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« Reply #142 on: May 03, 2011, 08:20:35 AM »

If some one not presenting valid arguments, what reason to keep engage into dialog?

You have not been presenting any kind of valid argument that I have seen in this thread.  You have repeatedly made bald assertions of your opinions as though they were fact without any supporting evidence or sources and sometimes in language that does not make sense due to odd grammar or word choice or possible misspellings. It would seem that English is not your first language and this makes communicating difficult.

Various people here have asked you questions that you have not answered.  You are the one who made the claim that you had studied at a university for 8 years, as I recall, as though we should accept your authority and dictates because of your attendance.  I asked you what University you attended? Whether you  had completed a course of study and graduated? and in what field or subject your education had been.  You have answered none of these questions.  Would you please let us know the answers? 

Why should we accept you and your opinions without question?  What support that is not from your own belief can you or are able to give to your assertions? 

I also asked you if, in an earlier post, you were referring to Down Syndrome and you have not answered that either.

Why will you not answer questions that are asked of you?

With respect,

Ebor


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« Reply #143 on: May 03, 2011, 09:07:53 PM »

If some one not presenting valid arguments, what reason to keep engage into dialog?

You have not been presenting any kind of valid argument that I have seen in this thread.  You have repeatedly made bald assertions of your opinions as though they were fact without any supporting evidence or sources and sometimes in language that does not make sense due to odd grammar or word choice or possible misspellings. It would seem that English is not your first language and this makes communicating difficult.

Various people here have asked you questions that you have not answered.  You are the one who made the claim that you had studied at a university for 8 years, as I recall, as though we should accept your authority and dictates because of your attendance.  I asked you what University you attended? Whether you  had completed a course of study and graduated? and in what field or subject your education had been.  You have answered none of these questions.  Would you please let us know the answers? 

Why should we accept you and your opinions without question?  What support that is not from your own belief can you or are able to give to your assertions? 

I also asked you if, in an earlier post, you were referring to Down Syndrome and you have not answered that either.

Why will you not answer questions that are asked of you?

With respect,

Ebor




 Basic evidence about autism speculation was presented. A lot.

So far you was not capable  to present any counter arguments.
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« Reply #144 on: May 03, 2011, 09:09:13 PM »

If dawn syndrome was not research so well it would be part of ASD.
Do you mean "Down Syndrome"?  

I mean what I post.

You have hard time to comprehends it?
Because of language? odd grammar?
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« Reply #145 on: May 03, 2011, 11:45:56 PM »

Alive, what university did you study at for 8 years? Where did you do your research for 40 years? Care to answer my question? Which is also PtA's question to you as well?
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« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2011, 04:04:17 PM »

Alive, I see that you've been online since I've posted my question, yet you still won't answer. Perhaps I'll say it again:

Alive, what university did you study at for 8 years? Where did you do your research for 40 years?
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« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2011, 11:31:44 PM »

Alive, what university did you study at for 8 years? Where did you do your research for 40 years? Care to answer my question? Which is also PtA's question to you as well?

Alive, I see that you've been online since I've posted my question, yet you still won't answer. Perhaps I'll say it again:

Alive, what university did you study at for 8 years? Where did you do your research for 40 years?

PoorFoolNicholas,

Do not answer to a fool according to his folly, to not turn yourself into fool like him. But answer a fool according to his folly to not make him wise in his own eyes. (Solomon)
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« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2011, 11:55:55 PM »

Do not answer to a fool according to his folly, to not turn yourself into fool like him. But answer a fool according to his folly to not make him wise in his own eyes. (Solomon)

 Cheesy
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« Reply #149 on: May 05, 2011, 01:11:46 AM »

Do not answer to a fool according to his folly, to not turn yourself into fool like him. But answer a fool according to his folly to not make him wise in his own eyes. (Solomon)

 Cheesy

OK, so what school did Solomon go to?  How do I know that I can trust him?  laugh
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« Reply #150 on: May 05, 2011, 08:29:09 AM »

If some one not presenting valid arguments, what reason to keep engage into dialog?

You have not been presenting any kind of valid argument that I have seen in this thread.  You have repeatedly made bald assertions of your opinions as though they were fact without any supporting evidence or sources and sometimes in language that does not make sense due to odd grammar or word choice or possible misspellings. It would seem that English is not your first language and this makes communicating difficult.

Various people here have asked you questions that you have not answered.  You are the one who made the claim that you had studied at a university for 8 years, as I recall, as though we should accept your authority and dictates because of your attendance.  I asked you what University you attended? Whether you  had completed a course of study and graduated? and in what field or subject your education had been.  You have answered none of these questions.  Would you please let us know the answers? 

Why should we accept you and your opinions without question?  What support that is not from your own belief can you or are able to give to your assertions? 

I also asked you if, in an earlier post, you were referring to Down Syndrome and you have not answered that either.

Why will you not answer questions that are asked of you?

With respect,

Ebor




 Basic evidence about autism speculation was presented. A lot.

So far you was not capable  to present any counter arguments.


I have gone back over this entire thread and you have not presented any "basic evidence". You have made many posts with statements of your own opinions without any support from other sources.  The only link you have provided was to a YouTube video which did not apply to the topic of Autism. 

I have also attempted to find the quote that you claim from from Eugen Bleuler, who first coined the term "Autism", and have not been able to find it yet.  What is your source for that supposed quote?  Considering that the English is poor in that passage, I don't believe that it is an accurate quote at all. 


Repeating yourself over and over is not the same as offering any kind of "proof" or documentation or support for your particular idea. 

You made a claim to authority in your post of April 13, 2011 with your statement that you have done  "study. 8 years of uny, 40 years of research."  Do you believe that this claim, and that's all it is, an unsubstantiated claim that you know so much about this that others must accept your dictates, is the reason that your posts here should be blindly accepted without question?

I ask again: 

At what university did you study?  Did you graduate?  In what field did you focus your studies?  In what field did you conduct "40 years of research"?  Where did you do this?

A counter argument requires supporting evidence, not just that the person writing/saying likes the idea. So I will make a counter claim that there are several conditions in the Autism-Asperger's Spectrum and here are links on

"What is Autism"  http://www.autism-pdd.net/what-is-autism.html
"Autism Spectrum Disorders" http://www.autism-pdd.net/autism-spectrum-disorders.html

Ebor
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« Reply #151 on: May 05, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »

Next time my kid is picking holes in his skin or pulling his hair or banging his head against the wall, or spinning all day... I'll make sure to tell him autism doesn't exist. 

I asked my priest about this topic and his response was:   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #152 on: May 05, 2011, 08:55:01 AM »

If dawn syndrome was not research so well it would be part of ASD.
Do you mean "Down Syndrome"?  

I mean what I post.

Then you are wrong unless you meant to refer something having to do with diabetes in the morning  http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-84236.html

 which has nothing in common with autism.

That's why I asked if you meant "Down Syndrome" http://www.ndss.org/

I asked you a question for clarification and tried to be polite.  

If you are or were of the opinion that Down Syndrome is like Autism then I will tell you plainly you are wrong.  I know much about Down Syndrome, aka "Trisomy 21" which is named after the English Dr. John Down who described the condition.  It is a chromosomal condition that can be either complete or "Mosaic"
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Langdon_Down
About Mosaic Down Syndrome   http://www.imdsa.org/  
 
Quote
You have hard time to comprehends it?
Because of language? odd grammar?

To be blunt, yes.  Your command of written English is not very good.  I try to not remark on other people's grammar or language in posts, but much of what you have written is, I'm sorry to write, ungrammatical, has misspellings or uses words that don't apply.  This makes understanding what another person is writing hard to understand.  If you would tell us what your native language is, perhaps there is someone here on the forum who also knows it and might be able to help us understand what you are trying to say.  

You wrote: "You have hard  time to comprehends it?"  In proper English one way to write that could be "You have a hard time comprehending it?"  
From one of your posts in November "And it what Christianity is about". Someone using good English might write "That is what Christianity is about." or "It is what Christianity is about."

You have been asked many questions in this thread and you have not answered them.  Sometimes you have responded with statements that in English are insulting or offensive.  Why do you believe that other Human Beings should be treated this way if they do not blindly accept your unsupported opinions as though they were laws of the universe?

Ebor
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« Reply #153 on: May 05, 2011, 08:58:08 AM »

Next time my kid is picking holes in his skin or pulling his hair or banging his head against the wall, or spinning all day... I'll make sure to tell him autism doesn't exist. 

I asked my priest about this topic and his response was:   Roll Eyes

I'm sorry that you've had to read some of the screed.  It is because we don't know who might read some of these threads that wild unsupported statements such as have been posted need to have some countering posts.

Ebor

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« Reply #154 on: May 05, 2011, 09:24:18 AM »



I have gone back over this entire thread and you have not presented any "basic evidence".
Is Ignorance new form of beatitudes for you?
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« Reply #155 on: May 05, 2011, 09:34:33 AM »



I have gone back over this entire thread and you have not presented any "basic evidence".
To bad for you if you cant read.

I read quite well, thanks.  Again,you reply with insults.  Is this common where you are to denigrate other people just because they don't agree with thinks that you like?  Perhaps you do not understand fully what I have written.  If that is the case, if you let me know places there it is so, I will try to re-write them to make them more clear to you.

Please point out some "basic evidence" in your posts that is something more than you stating your opinion.  Repeating something doesn't make it evidence nor True.

Ebor

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« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2011, 09:50:47 AM »

I would also like to know where your PhD is from and which field (psychology? psychiatry? biological anthropology?).

I would also like to know what the focus of your research has been (genetics?  cortical development? ) and which journals your studies have been published in.
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« Reply #157 on: May 05, 2011, 09:51:48 AM »



I have gone back over this entire thread and you have not presented any "basic evidence".
Is Ignorance new form of beatitudes for you?

May I ask why you changed your first post to make what seems to be another attempt at being insulting? That's how that sentence seems to be saying.

I know the Beatitudes of Our Lord and I do not see how that applies here unless you are trying to come up with something along the lines of "Blessed are the ignorant...."

How do you see me as being ignorant other that not accepting you as an authority?  Even the Bereans searched through the scriptures to find out if what they were told by St. Paul and Silas were true and they were commended for it.

Ebor
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« Reply #158 on: May 05, 2011, 09:55:28 AM »

I would also like to know where your PhD is from and which field (psychology? psychiatry? biological anthropology?).

I would also like to know what the focus of your research has been (genetics?  cortical development? ) and which journals your studies have been published in.

I don't think that Alive has stated that he/she has a PhD, just claimed to have been at a university for 8 years.  However, attending a school doesn't mean graduating, of course, even after 8 years, so there may be no degree awarded in this case.  Both that and the question of where/how/in what field the "research" was done have gone unanswered so far.  One wonders why.

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« Reply #159 on: May 05, 2011, 10:05:14 AM »

I'm not even asking for him to list his published papers. I will settle for a brief list of the scientific journals in which his work has been published.

It is a simple question and easily answered.  If he has been doing research for that long, he has to have published something. My husband's godfather has been published at least 7 times in the last decade.

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« Reply #160 on: May 05, 2011, 10:09:08 AM »

Next time my kid is picking holes in his skin or pulling his hair or banging his head against the wall, or spinning all day... I'll make sure to tell him autism doesn't exist. 


There numerus untraceable pharmacological application may cause identical permanent beavered to absolutely functional adult  

Also it could be achieved by other influence with guaranty about person would never recover.




God help you in your struggle, but sound like your pain make you blind.
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« Reply #161 on: May 05, 2011, 10:13:21 AM »

Firstly, are you running your posts through some sort of translation software?

Secondly, you have not answered my questions.  Until you do... you are just spouting uneducated opinions.  I can get those from the clerk at the local supermarket.
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« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2011, 10:15:25 AM »

I'm not even asking for him to list his published papers. I will settle for a brief list of the scientific journals in which his work has been published.

It is a simple question and easily answered.  If he has been doing research for that long, he has to have published something. My husband's godfather has been published at least 7 times in the last decade.



Yes, it's a simple question as are the others on where she/he went to university and if a degree was awarded.  So far those questions have not been answered and the pattern continues...  Undecided  

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« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2011, 10:20:29 AM »


There numerus untraceable pharmacological application may cause identical permanent beavered to absolutely functional adult  

Also it could be achieved by other influence with guaranty about person would never recover.




God help you in your struggle, but sound like your pain make you blind.


Alive, this is just one more post with bad grammar, misspellings and words that don't make sense.  "identical permanent beavered"?!
In English "beavered" means "Covered with, or wearing, a beaver or hat."   http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beavered
How in any way, shape or form would this apply to a person diagnosed with Autism?  Huh

What word are you trying to write?  If you don't use the right words people won't understand you.

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« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2011, 11:04:33 AM »

Alive, you are a liar. I don't believe that you have studied anywhere "legitimate", nor worked within a field related to Autism for 40 years. You refuse to answer the question, that everyone is asking of you, because you are a liar. Prove me wrong.

What Ebor has been trying to do on this thread is to be commended in that she has shown nothing but the utmost respect for Alive in spite of Alive's attempts to dodge her repeated requests for sources and credentials. Calling Alive a liar, however, is a personal attack and therefore not tolerated on this forum--it's also not at all conducive to getting from Alive the information we desire. If you wish to insist that you think he's lying, then that is a judgment of his conduct and not of his person and would therefore be acceptable. But calling him a liar is an attack on Alive's person and not on his conduct.

You've been warned before to not use ad hominems such as this, so you are now receiving this warning to last for the next 7 days. If you think this action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2011, 01:01:10 PM »

OK, from now on I'll just INFER that he's lying. That's so much better. I need to get a sharper razor later today, so I can split some hairs...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2011, 10:45:00 PM »



I have gone back over this entire thread and you have not presented any "basic evidence".
Is Ignorance new form of beatitudes for you?
Alive,

You now have a number of persons asking you to back up your claims with outside sources and/or to establish for us why we should deem you an authority on the subject of autism. In spite of our insistence, you have done nothing but resist by refusing to answer our questions and by accusing us of being ignorant, blind, and unwilling to seek the truth. This circle of behavior is getting very frustrating for all of us and is threatening to derail this discussion by making it all about you and your game of dodgeball.

We, the moderator team, therefore think it's time we put an end to this game of yours by making a formal request for sources that support the assertions you have made on this thread. You therefore have until 8:00 p.m. (Pacific Time) on Sunday, May 8, to either cite these sources or confess that you don't have access to any and that your assertions are merely your own opinion. Failure to fulfill this request will result in you being placed back on Post Moderation for a while.


Being asked to provide clarification, references, or "proof" by a moderator in an official manner:

Occasionally a moderator will make a formal request (i.e. in a colored font, or whatnot, explicitly stating that they're asking as a mod and not a user) for clarification of a point, references to support a point, or "proof" of an assertion made in the course of discussion.  Sometimes this request will come with a "time limit" or other stipulation requesting expediency.  These requests are made in order to facilitate open and honest discussion, without knowingly or unknowingly propagating false information.  Do not be offended by such requests, but do make all haste in fulfilling them, in order to allow productive and edifying discussion to continue.

I think our founder and Administrator explains this best:


We are just trying to meet our responsibility of fairness and remember we will all face the ultimate judge, Christ himself. We really want to make sure that our site is not responsible for advertising mistruth whenever possible. No one on our moderation team is assuming anything you have said is not true. It is just confusing to try and figure out all the details and we are trying to be cautious. This is how Orthodox people are supposed to take all things, with a discerning spirit. Thank you for your understanding. We value your input on this site.

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« Reply #167 on: May 06, 2011, 05:55:51 PM »

Sorry to jump in on this, but what kind of tests does one do to know if they are autistic or not.

My parents thought I had autism when I was 3 years old and through my childhood. Never got a full diagnosis though.
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« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2011, 09:14:32 PM »

Sorry to jump in on this, but what kind of tests does one do to know if they are autistic or not.

My parents thought I had autism when I was 3 years old and through my childhood. Never got a full diagnosis though.

My daughter Athy was was diagnosed with PDD-NOS when she was 3 years, 4 months old. According to the paperwork that I have (from Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh), they investigated my daughter's medical and developmental history, education and early intervention history, and family and social history. They then did tests for her fine motor skills and receptive language skills, and a "play-based assessment" was done to evaluate her communication and social interaction skills.
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« Reply #169 on: May 07, 2011, 06:29:29 AM »

Next time my kid is picking holes in his skin or pulling his hair or banging his head against the wall, or spinning all day... I'll make sure to tell him autism doesn't exist. 

I asked my priest about this topic and his response was:   Roll Eyes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL5GHMEjzt8

Look like your child?
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« Reply #170 on: May 07, 2011, 08:48:58 AM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.
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« Reply #171 on: May 07, 2011, 09:56:39 AM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.
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« Reply #172 on: May 07, 2011, 05:00:01 PM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.

First, how would you know what Cobweb's child is like in behaviour? Unless you are in real life acquainted with the family and not admitting it here, you do not have the knowledge or authority to make such as statement. To make such a declaration without real true knowledge is impertinent, lacking in charity and cruel.  I think it is safe to post that you, Alive, know nothing about Cobweb's son.

Secondly, when you posted that link you did not give any information to make any "point" to be missed. Writing something about why you think a particular link or video has something to do with the subject would be helpful.

Thirdly, if it could be of any help to you in communicating in English, in your first   phrase you left out the verb "are": "You are missing the point." is proper grammar.  In the second line your erroneous claim ought to start "Cobweb does not have..."  I understand that verbs can be difficult in going from one language to another. But again if you want others to understand you and your posts grammar and spelling and word-use are important.

Ebor
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« Reply #173 on: May 07, 2011, 06:02:12 PM »

hi, aposphet, i'm repeating my post from page 3:

there is a score here which can help with diagnosis:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
but be careful, you might be shocked if you get a high score on the test!
and this is also useful:
http://www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/Diagnosis-the-process-for-adults.aspx

the important thing is that God uses all sort of people to build His kingdom, and having autism or asperger's disease does not mean you can't get a good job or be successful socially. it just takes more work, and God can give you the strength to do that hard work. may He bless us all and may we love and accept those who are different from us.

i suggest these steps:
1. pray.
2. go to those websites and get a fair idea yourself if you have autism or something similar.
3. carefully consider the pros and cons of getting an official diagnosis (people may understand you better, but it may not help having a 'disability' when it comes to getting a job etc.
4. if you think having a formal diagnosis would be useful go and see your gp and ask to see a neurologist or neuropsychologist.
5. if you decide to delay a formal diagnosis, there are some useful books out there, eg. written by people with aspergers' syndrome.
6. pray.
God bless u  Smiley
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« Reply #174 on: May 07, 2011, 07:41:15 PM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.

First, how would you know what Cobweb's child is like in behaviour? Unless you are in real life acquainted with the family and not admitting it here, you do not have the knowledge or authority to make such as statement. To make such a declaration without real true knowledge is impertinent, lacking in charity and cruel.  I think it is safe to post that you, Alive, know nothing about Cobweb's son.

Secondly, when you posted that link you did not give any information to make any "point" to be missed. Writing something about why you think a particular link or video has something to do with the subject would be helpful.

Thirdly, if it could be of any help to you in communicating in English, in your first   phrase you left out the verb "are": "You are missing the point." is proper grammar.  In the second line your erroneous claim ought to start "Cobweb does not have..."  I understand that verbs can be difficult in going from one language to another. But again if you want others to understand you and your posts grammar and spelling and word-use are important.

Ebor

you well fit into ASD standarts.
have you been diagnosed with one?
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« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2011, 09:40:20 PM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.

First, how would you know what Cobweb's child is like in behaviour? Unless you are in real life acquainted with the family and not admitting it here, you do not have the knowledge or authority to make such as statement. To make such a declaration without real true knowledge is impertinent, lacking in charity and cruel.  I think it is safe to post that you, Alive, know nothing about Cobweb's son.

Secondly, when you posted that link you did not give any information to make any "point" to be missed. Writing something about why you think a particular link or video has something to do with the subject would be helpful.

Thirdly, if it could be of any help to you in communicating in English, in your first   phrase you left out the verb "are": "You are missing the point." is proper grammar.  In the second line your erroneous claim ought to start "Cobweb does not have..."  I understand that verbs can be difficult in going from one language to another. But again if you want others to understand you and your posts grammar and spelling and word-use are important.

Ebor

you well fit into ASD standarts.
have you been diagnosed with one?

I think that you are attempting to suggest that I might have a condition that is one of the Autism Spectrum Disorders?  How could that be if, as you have posted and I have understood as much as possible that Autism doesn't really exist?

Or is it your opinion that logical thought, courtesy and skills with writing are supposed to be symptoms or aspects of this particular set of conditions?  Your post could be read as another attempt to be insulting or offensive to someone who does not agree with you.

Would you please explain why you have made this statement?  Thank you.

Ebor

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« Reply #176 on: May 08, 2011, 06:07:27 AM »


I think that you are attempting to suggest that I might have a condition that is one of the Autism Spectrum Disorders?  How could that be if, as you have posted and I have understood as much as possible that Autism doesn't really exist?

Or is it your opinion that logical thought, courtesy and skills with writing are supposed to be symptoms or aspects of this particular set of conditions?  Your post could be read as another attempt to be insulting or offensive to someone who does not agree with you.

Would you please explain why you have made this statement?  Thank you.

Ebor




Of course I not doubt that Autism and Developed criteria are fraud – may apply to just about any one, as well your last post.

You may call it as sarcasm , but I did not try to make fun of you.

But you do fit into  “fake autistic” criteria because you more worry about grammar rather about contents (not understanding it) , and try enforce other topics (choosing topics to talk about ) and not understanding basic statements was presented (page1,2,3)


You have right to act as you act. And can say any thing you wish to say.


 I respect that you have deferent life value and life perception what make you act accordingly.
And you should consider I may not share your value and oppose it as false one.

Also, if you not ready for opposition (for any reason) – you simply with it change topics to not conceder defeat and question your values.

Would it develop social opposition and social problems?
No doubt.

Your life goals and life values and life perceptions  – what basically related to your “religious” matter. And such matter could be (and may) – not simular to my one (or even extremely opposite)  
And because it comes for “religious” matters it would extremely hard to deal with such opposition.


So if I not share with your, your social values – our interaction would jeopardise.

If people with your life value make up social majority – it would almost automatically identify me as autist, because I do :

-   Not appreciate your gestures (consider it stupid or unreasonable etc.)
-   find your facial expressions or tone of voice – inappropriate
-   choosing topics to talk about
-   use complex words phrases – you not undistands
-   be very literal in – to avoid any misunderstandings.
-   Not appritiate your jokes, metaphor, sarcasm
-   struggle to make and maintain friendships with you (or other like you)
-   Not appreciate unwritten 'social rules'
-   Consider you unpredictable and confusing
-   uninterested in other people like you
-   appearing almost aloof behave in what may seem an inappropriate manner

Should we continuer? There are much more…. It is all from  http://www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/Diagnosis-the-process-for-adults.aspx




So accordingly those criteria’s one of as “autist”.

No doubt Autism is new form of social terrorism.
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« Reply #177 on: May 08, 2011, 06:18:20 AM »

dear alive,
by labelling autist people as autistic, we are not trying to control them but understand them.

non-autistic people find it very hard to understand autistic people, and they need a lot of help.
they really feel insecure and scared trying to understand autistic people.
so we should work to understand each other and to gently explain what we mean when we communicate.

God can help us to do that by giving us a lot of love for each other.
He also gives us some people who can act like translators, they can help the 2 groups to understand each other.
so it's not like the non-autistic people have all the knowledge and all the advantages.
it is just as hard for them trying to understand those who are different (whom i label 'autistic' coz i don't find that label offensive) as it is the other way round.
it is hard for all of us, autistic, non-autistic and 'translators' (my label for people who are somewhere in between) to understand the world we live in, so we should all try to accept one another and try not to be rude and scared.

may God help us  Smiley
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« Reply #178 on: May 08, 2011, 06:49:49 AM »

dear alive,
by labelling autist people as autistic, we are not trying to control them but understand them.

non-autistic people find it very hard to understand autistic people, and they need a lot of help.
they really feel insecure and scared trying to understand autistic people.
so we should work to understand each other and to gently explain what we mean when we communicate.

God can help us to do that by giving us a lot of love for each other.
He also gives us some people who can act like translators, they can help the 2 groups to understand each other.
so it's not like the non-autistic people have all the knowledge and all the advantages.
it is just as hard for them trying to understand those who are different (whom i label 'autistic' coz i don't find that label offensive) as it is the other way round.
it is hard for all of us, autistic, non-autistic and 'translators' (my label for people who are somewhere in between) to understand the world we live in, so we should all try to accept one another and try not to be rude and scared.

may God help us  Smiley

I not conceder most (apart extreme disable) “autistics called” as not normal and I have lot of friends with such “statues”, and I not see not more difficult to interact with such people than with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HW7TRJU7PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfWfsop1e0


What I see is some one ( who make up autism) do not know basic neurological typology classification and apply fake diagnose on absolutely normal people whose:
- education some times was neglected
- or who was discriminated on some way,
- or/and have not common social value
.


email tags changed to url tags so we can view the second video without needing to send an email to it.  -PtA
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« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2011, 07:27:39 AM »


 we should work to understand each other and to gently explain what we mean when we communicate.

God can help us to do that by giving us a lot of love for each other.
He also gives us some people who can act like translators, they can help the 2 groups to understand each other.
so it's not like the non-autistic people have all the knowledge and all the advantages.
it is just as hard for them trying to understand those who are different (whom i label 'autistic' coz i don't find that label offensive) as it is the other way round.
it is hard for all of us, autistic, non-autistic and 'translators' (my label for people who are somewhere in between) to understand the world we live in, so we should all try to accept one another and try not to be rude and scared.

may God help us  Smiley


Not 2 groups but 4 and absolutly normal.


God all ready help us, but some one whish to ignor it.
And it was discovered hundreds years ago and well known in east European psychology…. But neglected in west….



And your “God Love” proclamation have no thing to do with case where some one have authority to established and enforce fake disorder and use “disability (disorder)” label on:
-   phlegmatic,
-   melancholics
-   cholerics
........Apply label on people becose they are not sanguinecs.

NOT THEY (first 3 ) BRAIN WIRED.  it is natural way them (our) nerve system designed and operate.  



By the way, most cholerics respected and lable as people with ADD and ADHD disorder .
Autism is prerogative of melancholics and some phlegmatics.

And more of them was neglected in yearly childhood or abused in school, more likely behaviour would be  significant.
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« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2011, 07:54:17 AM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.
You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.

Why the heck should I believe you? Have you even met this child?

And for-crying-out-loud, humorism is the common heritage of all Europe, not to mention the Islamic world (via Avicenna). There are modern temperament systems too (e.g. Myers-Briggs and socionics) but they describe variation of normal behavior and are not descriptive of pathological behavior.
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« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2011, 08:35:12 AM »


Why the heck should I believe you? Have you even met this child?

And for-crying-out-loud, humorism is the common heritage of all Europe, not to mention the Islamic world (via Avicenna). There are modern temperament systems too (e.g. Myers-Briggs and socionics) but they describe variation of normal behavior and are not descriptive of pathological behavior.





1. parent describe well enough way child acting like. I saw such kids.



2. Your reference to “Humorism” is not about clinical Pavlov typologies eastern psychology based on.   
yes, It have some small similarity and share some “termilogy”.

Pavlov classification well researched, developed and proven on east based on degree of irritation, level of and strength of it, stability and inhibition nerve system operate.

All of it  well researched and is fundamental study at any post USSR medical university.

It is not about “believe” , it is basic fundamental of psychology.
And is not my problem why you or any one not familiar with.
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« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2011, 09:40:33 AM »


Yes.  On a good day my child does look like that. 

Bad days can be very bad.
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« Reply #183 on: May 08, 2011, 09:49:25 AM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.


You know nothing about my child except what I have told you. 

My child is disabled enough to be in a self-contained class room.  Strangers can usually tell that there is something "off" about him even on a good day, but his most obvious autistic behavious (such as stims) come out more frequently when he is stressed or upset.  This is normal for kids with ASDs.  If they are high functioning enough they are taught through therapy to try to control their stimming in public.

He is verbal, so his official diagnosis is Asperger's Syndrome, but his issues are severe enough that a diagnosis of mild-moderate classic (Kanners) autism has been considered.
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« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2011, 11:43:13 AM »

There are dozens upon dozens of clips on YouTube documenting autistic behavior.

You missing point,
cobweb have not such kid, not even close.


You know nothing about my child except what I have told you. 

My child is disabled enough to be in a self-contained class room.  Strangers can usually tell that there is something "off" about him even on a good day, but his most obvious autistic behavious (such as stims) come out more frequently when he is stressed or upset.  This is normal for kids with ASDs.  If they are high functioning enough they are taught through therapy to try to control their stimming in public.

He is verbal, so his official diagnosis is Asperger's Syndrome, but his issues are severe enough that a diagnosis of mild-moderate classic (Kanners) autism has been considered.

Of course I know only what you post.

And you post was:
-   picking holes in his skin
-   pulling his hair
-   banging his head against the wall
-   spinning all day

and it is not what video was about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL5GHMEjzt8

Boy on video “strange” because of luck of quality education and discipline.
Pure product of derailed godless western society with faulty values and wrong life perception .
Social environment make him like hi is.
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« Reply #185 on: May 08, 2011, 11:51:15 AM »

Some of the posts on this thread reminds me of the Orthodox fellow I saw on youtube, who was (ignorantly) arguing that psychology was bunk, and that psychological therapy was just being promoted to keep people employed. Now, are a lot of ideas that have been put forth in the name of psychology bunk? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't mean there aren't actual problems being dealt with.
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« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2011, 01:06:02 PM »

1. parent describe well enough way child acting like. I saw such kids.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't believe you.

Quote
2. Your reference to “Humorism” is not about clinical Pavlov typologies eastern psychology based on.   
yes, It have some small similarity and share some “termilogy”.

Pavlov classification well researched, developed and proven on east based on degree of irritation, level of and strength of it, stability and inhibition nerve system operate.

Pavlov's work, like pretty much everything scientific in the Stalinist USSR, was marred by a lot of political intriguing and refusal to accept how scientific progress actually advances. Pavlov was taken very much like Lysenko,  and if you want a longer treatment of it you can read Chapter 6 of Stalin and the Soviet Science Wars (Pollock, Ethan, Princeton University Press, 2006). Pavlov was not the only person to try to make a modern basis out of humorism; there have been American creationist-related attempts as well. However the short version of it is that Pavlov's reflexive theory was questioned even in Russia by physiologists there; in the west the study of biochemistry rapidly outpaced Soviet science, and it quickly became clear in the early sixties if not sooner that genetics did in fact influence mental pathologies. Of course, the dogmatic adherence to Lysenko's theories meant that accepting these results was politically impossible in the USSR.

This is the second post in two days where I've done the research (I'm looking at you too, Climacus) as against an appeal to a vague to nonexistent authority. Everything I can find thus far treats Pavlov's system as pretty much of historical interest: the work referenced in the Wikipedia article, for instance, barely even registers on Amazon and has a tiny footprint in university libraries. Pavlov's theories haven't caught on in the USA not because of some western bias/godlessness1 but because research hasn't borne them out.

And while we're at it, here's some really severe autism, and there are plenty more videos like it on YouTube.

1"Godlessness" is ironic considering how much godless soviet politics was responsible for promoting Pavlov.
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« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2011, 01:15:57 PM »



Some of the posts on this thread reminds me of the Orthodox fellow I saw on youtube, who was (ignorantly) arguing that psychology was bunk, and that psychological therapy was just being promoted to keep people employed. Now, are a lot of ideas that have been put forth in the name of psychology bunk? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't mean there aren't actual problems being dealt with.

Can you post you tube link (or PM it)? Just wounder. Even if he right – it is not my concern about.

I not sure there is global corruption about or not ( it is deferent topic) and I not concern about.
 but world going to hell on high speed and with out brakes. 
My concern - Special social concept as new religion – and way it promoted…
........and only my whish to survive, cos I feel how week and lustful I am and I am worry, I may never reach light even I know what it is.


We live not in paradise but in constant “war zone” and there are problems in our lifes and our kids suffer it too….And western psychology is not rise up to promote Christian value.

Greatest Problem – we deal with problems not in Christian way, because we live not Christian life, and often we have wrong idea about Christian life at all.

Most of us respect social life models and will pay for it in most hard way, especially for calling ourself orthodox.

Our problems is internal one, because we build wrong perception.
Society – fully screw and we try to fit into….we dumb then....And ignorant to what Christ words.
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« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2011, 01:36:33 PM »


Quote
2. Your reference to “Humorism” is not about clinical Pavlov typologies eastern psychology based on.   
yes, It have some small similarity and share some “termilogy”.

Pavlov classification well researched, developed and proven on east based on degree of irritation, level of and strength of it, stability and inhibition nerve system operate.

Pavlov's work, like pretty much everything scientific in the Stalinist USSR, was marred by a lot of political intriguing and refusal to accept how scientific progress actually advances....

Brainwash propaganda well work for you and make you great fruit of speculation.By the way Pavlov was Orthodox Christian, as well as St. Luka Vojno-Yasinecki  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luka_Voyno-Yasenetsky – was not less but bishop in Stalin time.
Sound like you totally ignorant if you speculating on link NS typology to Lysenko.
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« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2011, 09:26:29 PM »

Alive,

Just a reminder, seeing how active you've been on this thread since my last directive:

You still have two hours to do one of the following:

  • Cite authoritative persons or studies that back up your claims regarding autism
  • Establish for us why we should hold you up as an authority on autism
  • Post an admission that your claims are merely your own opinions which you have no evidence to support.

Seeing the time constraints you face, I advise you to stop arguing with other posters on this thread and focus instead on giving us the evidence I requested of you three days ago so you can maintain the freedom you currently have to post here. Again, if you have any questions or complaints about my request, please send them via private message to Veniamin or to me.

Thank you in advance for your prompt cooperation.

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« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2011, 10:54:48 PM »

Alive,

Just a reminder, seeing how active you've been on this thread since my last directive:

You still have two hours to do one of the following:

  • Cite authoritative persons or studies that back up your claims regarding autism
  • Establish for us why we should hold you up as an authority on autism
  • Ppost an admission that your claims are merely your own opinions which you have no evidence to support.

Seeing the time constraints you face, I advise you to stop arguing with other posters on this thread and focus instead on giving us the evidence I requested of you three days ago so you can maintain the freedom you currently have to post here. Again, if you have any questions or complaints about my request, please send them via private message to Veniamin or to me.

Thank you in advance for your prompt cooperation.

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Every thing I say with in:
2.   psychology (real one - sechenov/pavlov based - developed and well researched) – basic course at any post USSR medical university.
3.   pedagogy – basic course (year 1) from any pedagogical institution post USSR.
1.   Basic fundamentals of Christianity (Orthodox).

 
If people do not know those material and not capable to operate on such level them need to:

1. Learn fundamental basic  of Christianity
2. Learn fundamental basic of psychology developed on east first.
3. Learn basic fundamentals of pedagogy






In light of what I state in my post below, you have failed to fulfill my formal request for sources. You also insinuated yesterday that Ebor may have an Autism Spectrum Disorder, a vicious attempt to discredit Ebor that offers nothing of substance to this discussion and makes extremely insulting questions of Ebor's mental health. This conduct toward Ebor shows me that you still don't know how to engage our posters in meaningful and respectful debate without constantly belittling them.

Considering your extensive record of combative behavior on this thread and your clear unwillingness to learn how to relate to others since your last time on post moderation, you are now on post moderation for the maximum duration of 99 days. Any posts you submit to this particular thread will be automatically rejected regardless of their content until you provide the sources I requested. Outside of this thread you will still be permitted to post, but your posts will still be screened for compliance with forum rules and accepted/rejected accordingly. If you think this action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #191 on: May 08, 2011, 11:25:24 PM »

Alive,

Just a reminder, seeing how active you've been on this thread since my last directive:

You still have two hours to do one of the following:

  • Cite authoritative persons or studies that back up your claims regarding autism
  • Establish for us why we should hold you up as an authority on autism
  • Ppost an admission that your claims are merely your own opinions which you have no evidence to support.

Seeing the time constraints you face, I advise you to stop arguing with other posters on this thread and focus instead on giving us the evidence I requested of you three days ago so you can maintain the freedom you currently have to post here. Again, if you have any questions or complaints about my request, please send them via private message to Veniamin or to me.

Thank you in advance for your prompt cooperation.

- PeterTheAleut
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Every thing I say with in:
2.   psychology (real one - sechenov/pavlov based - developed and well researched) – basic course at any post USSR medical university.
3.   pedagogy – basic course (year 1) from any pedagogical institution post USSR.
1.   Basic fundamentals of Christianity (Orthodox).

 
If people do not know those material and not capable to operate on such level them need to:

1. Learn fundamental basic  of Christianity
2. Learn fundamental basic of psychology developed on east first.
3. Learn basic fundamentals of pedagogy
I'm sorry, but this does not satisfy my request for sources. For one, most people here are not able to attend psychology classes in a Russian university. I'm therefore looking for links to documents that we can read for ourselves, documents you and/or others have written.

Secondly, most people who post on this forum are familiar with the basic fundamentals of Orthodox Christianity, which makes your non-specific reference to this source not at all enlightening. What patristic teachings, hierarchical encyclicals, conciliar decrees, or any other specifically authoritative statement of Orthodox belief can you quote to back up your argument that the basic principles of Orthodox Christian faith support your claims? That's what I need to see. If you can't provide these, then your argument from "the basic principles of Orthodox Christianity" will be seen as nothing more than your own PERSONAL interpretation of Orthodox doctrine, an interpretation which we who also understand the basic principles of Orthodox Christianity are free to dispute.

Finally, you're putting the burden of proof on us to find these "sources" you cite in only the most general way and read them for ourselves. That's not going to work. How can we learn the basic fundamentals of Christianity if you won't teach them to us from the Bible, the Councils, and the Fathers? How can we learn the fundamental basics of psychology if we're not able to enroll in the classes you recommend? How can we learn the basic principles of pedagogy if you won't explain them to us in detail and with specific references to outside sources?

YOU need to find and post SPECIFIC quotes of those SPECIFIC sources that back up your claims. Accompanying these SPECIFIC quotes with bibliographical credits so we can read the material for ourselves will be even better. Without those SPECIFIC references to SPECIFIC sources, your "proofs" are useless. Don't make us do what you need to do yourself.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 11:27:35 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #192 on: May 13, 2011, 03:10:30 PM »

Some of the posts on this thread reminds me of the Orthodox fellow I saw on youtube, who was (ignorantly) arguing that psychology was bunk, and that psychological therapy was just being promoted to keep people employed. Now, are a lot of ideas that have been put forth in the name of psychology bunk? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't mean there aren't actual problems being dealt with.

The DSMV states that it is difficult to diagnose mental illness since we all have traits that could be called "mentally ill", as Alive points out.  They become something of concern when they affect our ability to function in society, and therein comes the rub.  What is acceptable in one society may not be in another.  When I used to perform volunteer work in an asylum in Southern Illinois, I was walking through a ward with two employees that had some pretty "odd" people in it.  One of the employees asked me if I was scared.  I asked why I should be.  He asked if it bothered me to be surrounded by people who were insane.  I told him that they were "insane" only because there are more of us than them.  If the numbers were reversed, we would be the ones institutionalized.  Remarkably, he stopped and looked somewhat confused, and then stated that he had never looked at it that way.

My wife is a Paraprofessional in Special Education.  She deals with so-called "autistic" children five days a week during the school year, and also during summer school.  Of course, since she has spent years dealing with children and has not spent the obligatory four years sitting in a classroom having someone else tell her what to think, she is probably considered by some here not to know anything. However, one observation that she has made is that what Alive says about upbringing, home life, and the like are pretty much spot on.  In addition, some of the children labeled as "autistic" are just a bit slow and there is really nothing else wrong with them.  Only occasionally does she get to see a child that would meet the classic definition of what she would consider "autistic".  These seem to have no common denominator; home life good, apparently good parents and so on.  Yes, you are correct - sometimes there are real problems that need to be dealt with.  Too bad that they are lost in the scatter.  The staff have to spend so much time dealing with the one or two so-called "autistic" kids that just need the stuff kicked out of them that they don't have the time to properly deal with the ones that really need the help due to having a real problem, even if it is called "autism".
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I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
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