Author Topic: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"  (Read 10493 times)

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Offline zoarthegleaner

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2008, 11:58:31 AM »
Hmmm, it sure seems these postings have veered from the subject line...

Quote:"...baptized Orthodox as an infant but now attends a Ukrainian Eastern Rite Catholic church, because he believes that the Orthodox Church is "disorderly" ..." 

IMO he may indeed be correct about the "disorderly" state of the Orthodox Church(s) and certainly the Apostle Paul put orderliness as what is supposed to be characteristic of Churches, but one only has to read his own epistles to see that the disorderly condition of the Church is a human reality and uniting oneself with the Pope of Roman and the ERCC will not resolve that issue, for having passed through the Easter Rite in my journey into Orthodoxy my opinion is their are stooges everywhere...in the court and in churches, yes, even in the Orthodox Church..., but your actual experience may vary.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2008, 03:29:02 PM »
I am sorry if I was the reason why the thread deviated friom its original title and course.

My point, as close to the topic as possible, is that it is not clear to me whether Bishop Wright was correct or not.

On the one hand, yes, we, the Orthodox, seem to believe unanimously that God created ONE world and that THIS ONE world is being saved, redeemed, restored by Christ. So, we are not dreaming about some kind of travel to another universe when we die; rather, we have a hope that after our temporary physical death, we will rise with Christ to live eternally in this same God-created world, and in this world we will be God's fellow workers (συνεργοι).

On the other hand, there are indications in Scripture and Fathers that our experience after the general resurrection of the dead will be very different from our present experience. What it will be, precisely, we do not know, but we know that it will be different. Maybe, indeed, the Earth and other planets and stars and galaxies will just disappear, and maybe, indeed, we will have no limitations not only in time (eternal life), but also in space, the way Christ seems to have no spatial limitations now. So, what exactly will be our role after the Resurrection, what shall we be doing, in what exact way shall we be God's συνεργοι, is an open question. In a way, perhaps, Christians are both wrong about Heaven, and right.
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Offline zoarthegleaner

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2008, 10:43:11 PM »
"Icons are indeed painted in an abstracted, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way."


 :o  I thought keeping the fast was difficult and Hesychism also, but having to attain to an "abstract, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way" just to paint an Icon...and there seems to be so many Icon painters advertising on the Internet...WOW!
Courteous is my name,
and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.

Offline LBK

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2008, 12:28:53 AM »
"Icons are indeed painted in an abstracted, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way."


 :o  I thought keeping the fast was difficult and Hesychism also, but having to attain to an "abstract, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way" just to paint an Icon...and there seems to be so many Icon painters advertising on the Internet...WOW!

Let me assure you, zoarth, that a good number of present-day "iconographers" peddling their wares online have little or no real understanding of what iconography is truly about.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2008, 12:50:26 AM »
Let me assure you, zoarth,

I think its "Zoar". Short for "Zoar the Gleaner"
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2008, 01:01:09 AM »
However, when it comes to beliefs about matter and body, P.M. very passionately argues not just with me, an Orthodox, but even with an ordained priest of his own church, calling him a "sissy," an "ignoramus in theology" etc. etc. etc.

He sounds like a real winner.  So much for love.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Article: "Christians Wrong About Heaven, Says Bishop"
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2008, 04:09:30 AM »
"Icons are indeed painted in an abstracted, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way."


 :o  I thought keeping the fast was difficult and Hesychism also, but having to attain to an "abstract, non-sensual, "spiritualised" way" just to paint an Icon...and there seems to be so many Icon painters advertising on the Internet...WOW!

I'm not sure how an Icon can be "non-sensual" when colour depends on the sense of vision. And to say an Icon is "spiritualized" when it is made of materials (wood, plaster, pigments and egg yolks etc.) seems strange to me. Nor can I see how an Icon is abstract. Jackson Pollock's work is abstract. Pablo Picasso's work is abstract.
This is abstract:


This is not abstract:


If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.