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Author Topic: The term "Habashi"  (Read 5258 times) Average Rating: 0
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Amdetsion
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« on: November 28, 2007, 02:51:26 PM »

Hello Amdetsion,

I think you make very valid point. However when it comes to Coptic art, which the icon posted above is an example of, you will notice that almost universally the features are the same. The nose, the mouth and the beards all have a certain style that is shared among all icons of all saints.

Also though he is not portrayed as dark as you might expect, given the dominant colors in this type of art, you will see he is unmistakably Ethiopian.

I don't think Copts want St Moses to look a certain way to be able to venerate him. An example of a highly venerated Contemporary Ethiopian is abouna Abdel Messih el Habashi (Ethiopian).

Thank you; but for some reason I can not see the picture.

FYI:

 "El Habashi" does not mean 'The Ethiopian'. This "phrase" (NOT a racial type neither a nationality) is Arabic of course and has not gain currency among Ethiopians particulary the deeply rooted types which accounts for the majority. Thus the term 'habashi' is not acceptable to use when speakihg to, of or about Ethiopians. The term is derrogatory in many circles of Ethiopians. The term ahs the same effect to some Ethiopians like the American racial slurs "negro" and "colored" has to African Americans.

Just because an African American may among themselves and in some instances publically permit the term "negro" does not mean that 'anybody else' can use the term. The term is owend by African Americans..period! Same as the filthy term "nigger" today is owned by African Americans. Anybody caught using this filthy word in any way at all and is not African American is immediately brandded a racist and expelled from society as a subvert.

African Americans should destroy the word and stop using it. I guess one thing at a time. At lease now it is up the African American what future the word has. I guess a sort of 'toying with the enemy' until you finally do him in.

The point here is the for us Ethiopians habashi is the same thing. Soem of us use the word. It has political elements in it. But we look with a sharp eye when non-Ethiopians or non-black people use the term.

Emperor Hiali Selassie of Ethiopia removed the word as our countries official description (Habesenia) to "Ethiopia" after www 2. He hated this phrase.

 
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2008, 06:57:27 PM »

Peace to you Archdeacon AmdeTsion and Others,

[Once again, I know that this post is an older topic, but I was compelled to respond, because I 'beg to differ' concerning the word 'El Habeshi' or 'habesha'.]

With all due respect Archdeacon AmdeTsion, the word 'habesha' or 'el Habeshi' is not disrespectful or derogatory to most Ethiopians, including not-Semitic Ethiopians. 

I have to agree with the following article that I found on the internet, because even if you ask an Ethiopian of Oromo descent, 'Habesha neh?' or 'Habesha nish?', it is thought that the person was Ethiopian or Eritrean.

Here's the article:

Habesha is a word used to refer to both Eritreans and Ethiopians, or, more specifically, to the Semitic-speaking inhabitants of those countries. The first inscription to refer to "Habesha" is a Sabaean South Arabian inscription ca. 200 AD referring to king GDRT [Gaderat/Gadera] of Aksum (an ancient Kingdom located in modern Ethiopia) as king of the city of Aksum and the "clans of Habesha." As Sabaic and Ge'ez (the ancient language and alphabet of Ethiopia, still used) it was unvocalized, it is written as "h.bs't" (put the dot under the h and the apostrophe on top of the s) and later as vocalized as h.abs'aat (H'a'b'sha'at) which evolved into today's Habesha. The term was translated by the famous Christian King Ezana of Aksum in the mid 4th century as "Ethiopia" in Greek, which previously referred to Africa south of Egypt in general or Nubia (in modern-day Sudan) in particular.

The term is not, as commonly assumed, of Arabic origin, but of local Semitic origin. Spurious Arabic etymologies tend to connect the term with the meaning "mixed," on the false assumption that the peoples of the Horn of Africa are the product of African-Arab mixes.

The term was also used by the Turks as "Habesh" or "Habeshistan" to refer to their small territory taken from Ethiopia in 1557, comprising of the port cities of Massawa and Hergigo (Habeshistan also included Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, the capital of the province, Suwakin in Sudan, and Aden in Yemen).

Shamir of Dhu-Raydan and Himyar had called in the help of the clans of Habashat for war against the kings of Saba (ancient Sabaic inscription).

Ba-ree-ya, a-sh-ke-r, ge-re-d or other like terminologies are not acceptable to call anyone in Ethiopia [or anywhere else]. 

Thanks for allowing me to post.

Peace to everyone...

HaileAmanuel
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Amdetsion
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 07:36:34 PM »

Habesha is a word used to refer to both Eritreans and Ethiopians, or, more specifically, to the Semitic-speaking inhabitants of those countries.

HailiAmanuel

I appreciate you input here.

I marked out the peice of trhe article that supports my point. We Ethiopians are a varied lot. The people who are the fabric of the nation its culture its past are varied. We have over 80 some odd languages and a vast array of peoples and traditions. ALL THIS IS 'ETHIOPIA'.

"Semetic speaking inhabitants" are NOT the beginning and end of our vast nation and is an incorrect statenment anyway.

"Eritreans and Ethiopians" Huh

"Eritreans" ARE Ethiopians! or you can say it the other way around same thing. WE are one black people. This statement underscores the ignorance of Western and Western 'influenced' writers who FEED the divisive forces that exist throughout the whole black world not to mention Ethiopia and Africa in general.

My wife has family who are from both these groups.

I do not want to waste my time on this item.

You or others are entitled to your view on this issue.

I do not come form that mentallity of 'Ethiopians'. I see only greater Ethiopia...the true Ethiopia. And I will never change.

I come form the likes of HIM Hiali Sellassie who back in the 50's REMOVED the name Abysinnia (or Habeshee) from the country and reinstated the official ETHIOPIA...

In The Bible God speaks of CUSH - ETHIOPIA - MESRAIM - EGYPT.

There is no Habeshee or any of its affinitives.

Everything serious about us says ETHIOPIA or CUSH.

Habeshee, Abysinnia, etc is the product of ridicule from the Arab nations who failed to conquer the ETHIOPIN NATION. We do not even speak Arabic in ETHIOPIA only in small areas. NOT generally. All African nations have huge Arabic speaking communities especially East and North Africa. But you will be hard pressed to find and Ethiopian national who can also speak Arabic having only lived in Ethiopia. The only Arabic word we you will find is 'Habesha'. All Ethiopians speak Arabic if the word 'Habesha' is the only word that they will say.

WE speak ETHIOPIC which is NOT "Semitic" that catagorization has been removed by the academic world over 40 years ago. It is officially catagorized as Afro-Asiatic language giving pre-imenance to 'Afro' or African origin.

I am proud of my culture. You should be too.

HIM during his life built the bridges that broaden the Ethiopia nation to represent all the black world which is the true ancient and vast empire Ethiopia was and is as far as I am concerned.

Christ is Lord...Amen



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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 12:10:00 AM »

Archdeacon AmdeTsion,

Peace to you always...

From my point-of-view, which may not be considered by others, some of your statements have opened Pandora's Box.  I think that many of your references stem from an article that an Islamic professor or doctor wrote some time ago and this article is all over the internet [http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/36178]; forgive me if I'm incorrect.

Your opinion is your opinion and your comments are welcomed; I say this with all humility-within in my heart and before all.

Of course, Semitic speaking peoples are not the beginning or end of any nation or the human race as a matter of fact, but the language is not limited to the Semitic peoples of Ethiopia. 

The general statement of the article (that I posted) is to point out that the etymology of the word 'habesha' is not a derogatory term and not one of 'Arab' origin.  Even using the term 'Arab' must be done with caution in many senses, because 'Arab' could be used to describe a wide range of species: Language, Region, Food&Culture, Attire and so many other pertaining things. 

"Eritreans are Ethiopians..."  Archdeacon, with all due respect, we must be careful of political tensions and awareness. 

The article specifically points out that the term habesha is used to contain these strifes and to refute division(s) and tensions among the 'family'.  Of course, Ethiopians, Eritreans, Sudanese, Somalians, Kenyans and even many Egyptians are Black and of the Black Race, but we know for sure, that when one Ethiopian wants to define, anatomize and even identify himself (or herself) with someone who 'appears' to be 'Ethiopian'; he or she will ask, "Are you habesha?" 

It is true that Tigrayans, Amharans and other Hamo-Semitics of Ethiopia are only 30% or so of the population.

You are correct in agreeing with all of us that Ethiopians come in a wide array of skin tones, facial features, hair types or whatever may fit the description--this is not an argument. 

On the other hand, you should very well know that Ge'ez is Hamo-Semitic language-100%!   

What does the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church teach?

(1) Ge'ez a self-contained language within the Semitic family.  The general view therefore, is that the Ge'ez alphabet is the originator of the same language--Ge'ez.

(2) Ge'ez, being of the Semitic family, it follows that its alphabet did not develop by itself alone, but has been influenced by the Semitic languages such as Sabean, Hebrew and Arabic.

(3) According to some Ethiopian Church scholars, the Ge'ez alphabet was found in the time of Henos (Enoch) who was a devoted servant of God.  In recognition of his faith in God and of his service to Him, the Almighty revealed to Henos the vision of the Ge'ez alphabet written in Heaven.  The first human to use the alphabet is believed to be Henoch of the Old Testament. Henoch supposedly wrote the Book of Henoch in Ethiopic around c. 3350 B.C. As of then, the alphabet has been used as the door in writing and for the development of literature.  They also named it alphabet to mean: writings.

On the other hand, since every written language has its basis in its alphabet, the opinion that stipulates that alphabets are found through miracles is not tenable in the view of many scholars, and therefore, there is no doubt that the alphabet has its roots in the Ge'ez language.  Although it is obvious that the alphabet is founded upon the Ge'ez language, in the Church's long history, scholars of the EOTC have contributed much in improving the shapes and forms of the alphabet as well as giving depth to the language.

Archdeacon, words like: wahid, may (water), s'me, selam, ab, weld, q'dus, ras, tarik, a'klil, bayt, a'yn, dem, q'esis, mahandis, bint, ibn, im'ho, set, saaq, amin, tselot, semay, sayf, layl, imnet, me'lak, mote, tsome, gennet, hiwa, kahin, alem [etc.  Sorry, I don't know enough Ge'ez, Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic to continue at the moment].

...are exact or almost exactly the same as the Arabic equivalent.  I didn't even compare Amharic to Arabic [Hebrew, Aramaic]. 

So are you implying that Ge'ez borrowed these words, or that the other languages borrowed from Ge'ez?

I think that Ethiopians are speaking a lot more Arabic (and other Semitic languages) and other peoples are speaking a lot more Ethiopic than they believe. 

The behavior of the language is Semitic.  The script used to be written from right to left as the others (until St. Frumentius changed it upon his return from Alexandria).  In all the writings that I'm familiar with, I have never heard of any historian or scholar dating the time when Semitics and Ethiopian Cushites began to interact. 

I respect HIM Haile Selassie I very much, but I also understand that in his great efforts to modernize Ethiopia, the vast majority: Oromos and the poor alike were highly oppressed by the Bete-Mengist and other officials, even the religious.  His Majesty's very own mother was an Oromic Muslim...

Thanks for letting me post.

Peace to you and your mission,

HaileAmanuel




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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 01:12:15 AM »

This thread was split off from another thread about St. Moses the Ethiopian:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9391.new.html#new
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Amdetsion
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 12:55:54 PM »

Habeshi is a word you may opt to use to describe yourself.

I do not use such a term openly. Nor do those in my inner circle.

My wife was at a wedding and in my presence she was asked by a non-Ethiopian if she was "Hasbesha" she kindly said "No!.....I am an Ethiopian".

In certain cases she will just allow the description; usually among other Ethiopians and family.

You appear well studied on this issue which is good.

Forgive me; I am too Pan-African minded to stand with you on the points you are making. Our backgrounds are very different. I admit too many Ethiopian national today will agree with you before me.

I have hanging in my house a large nicely framed print of HIM Hiali Selassie I standing center with all the heads of African States. That is Ethiopia to me.

I have an 18Th century map which shows the 'Ethiopic Ocean' spelled on the map Mare Aeitiopia. This is Ethiopia to me.
This body of water was changed to be called the 'Atlantic Ocean' in the early 19Th century.

To me this "Habeshe" term lacks historical significance and as such alienates us from our rich heritage. It also sets up walls around Ethiopia and makes it more of an isolated unattached country having no cultural connection with the rest of Africa and the black world. This I can not accept. Even the sense of this is very distasteful. We are Africans in all aspects. We are not covetous land barrons or conquerors who ran-a-muck on the continent and made it our home. We are indigenous. WE are the "real McCoy" as they say

If science is your thing than science says that the first Africans come from the area we call Ethiopia today.

I am sorry to me and others..the term "Habesha" is weak in the face of these issues and much much more.

African-Americans are not all the same. Some African-Americans do not mind the description 'Negro" and some hate the term. I would be very careful as a non-African American in using the word "Negro" especially if you are a White person (or look like a White person). Even the term "black" is starting to get a little 'sticky' among certain African Americans since they believe (for obvious reason) that they are not a color. But out of the eye of the public and unofficially this same type of African American will call themselves 'black' and often refer to each other as 'Negro'. 

These are examples which show that although a term of identity is not 'derogatory' in itself does not mean that that term is accepted as such by everyone it 'attempts' to identify. This is can be very complicated among the "black" race thanks to centuries of racism, racist-propoganda and the pseudoscience of western "scholars" during the last two centuries in particular that has all but obliterated any chance of common brotherhood that WE could have hoped for as a black people then and now especially. The halls of western academia is packed to busting with the most unfounded information regarding the "black" world and black people.

I am not trying to change minds here or dispute or argue the 'proofs' you are using here.

For my part the term Habeshi and all its affinities are rejected regardless of these points valid or not and many Ethiopians share my views and many do not.

I admit I will use the term in my personal engagements and dialogs with family and friends and my inner circle. But I use it knowing that it is being used 'endearingly' so to speak. The term Habeshe for me is like wearing pajamas...I only wear them at home around family...or friends. In public I always wear a tie and trousers. Never Pajamas in public.

Thus......

Outside the inner-circle in academia, scholarship, literature and all manner of general description the term is Ethiopian or Cushite or African or 'black' if needed is the term of acceptance. NOT habeshe.

I live in New York City. WE have so many Ethiopian Restaurants. The word here is "ETHIOPIAN"  Restaurants...NO 'habeshe' restaurants to be found in NY at lease not by the name "habesha". Yet I will say to my wife though lets go out for "habesha megib" and I will wear my "Habesha libs" and so on. Even my Eritrean family has a restaurant and they call it "Authentic Ethiopian food" on the front of the place. They do not say Habesha or Eritrean food.

I think I gave enough examples here.

What I am talking about is real life; not what you find in scholarly papers and books.

 
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2008, 09:53:55 AM »

Forgive me please for entering this discussion have only read some of what has been said and perhaps not having any authority to comment being a white Australian but from a linguistical angle I believe I may have something worthwhile to point out.

The Arabic phrase "el Habashi" (as best as I understand it) is equivalent to the English "the Abyssinian". Perhaps if we consider Deacon Amdetsion's use of the word "Habesenia" we may be able to see this more clearly.

So the question is really whether or not it is considered offensive to refer to Ethiopians as Abyssinians?

It would seem Deacon Amdetsion considers the word to be offensive in most circumstances.

HaileAmanuel seems to take a less restrictive view of the word and permits its use in a wider variety of circumstances.

With all due respect to both of you, from an on-lookers perspective it seems as though your ideas are closer to one another than you think it's just that you have been using different terms and examples to describe your thoughts.

Deacon Amdetsion, would you please be able to encourage some of your friends to open Ethiopian restaurants around Brisbane? The only one I know of in Australia is in Victoria. I can hardly travel there for such a lovely meal often. (That would be like travelling from D.C. to Florida or further.)

Thank you Cool
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2008, 12:07:06 PM »

Forgive me please for entering this discussion have only read some of what has been said and perhaps not having any authority to comment being a white Australian but from a linguistical angle I believe I may have something worthwhile to point out.

The Arabic phrase "el Habashi" (as best as I understand it) is equivalent to the English "the Abyssinian". Perhaps if we consider Deacon Amdetsion's use of the word "Habesenia" we may be able to see this more clearly.

So the question is really whether or not it is considered offensive to refer to Ethiopians as Abyssinians?

It would seem Deacon Amdetsion considers the word to be offensive in most circumstances.

HaileAmanuel seems to take a less restrictive view of the word and permits its use in a wider variety of circumstances.

With all due respect to both of you, from an on-lookers perspective it seems as though your ideas are closer to one another than you think it's just that you have been using different terms and examples to describe your thoughts.

Deacon Amdetsion, would you please be able to encourage some of your friends to open Ethiopian restaurants around Brisbane? The only one I know of in Australia is in Victoria. I can hardly travel there for such a lovely meal often. (That would be like travelling from D.C. to Florida or further.)

Thank you Cool

Austrailia is along way from everything...LOL

I am sorry you are without a good Ethiopian Restaurant. Maybe one day that will change.

In New York we have so many 'Ethiopian' eateries. Its great.

I used this example to try and emphasize the fact that Ethiopians generally prefer to use "Ethiopian" and "Ethiopia" for official purposes as well as in serious situations to describe who we are as a people and NOT.... 'Habeshe', 'Habeshee', 'Abeshe', 'Abyssinia' etc.

HailiAmanuel is right that we use the term 'Habeshe' a lot. You may find an Ethiopian using it sometimes yourself. But note that if you do hear an Ethiopian use this term it will be while talking to another Ethiopian about an Ethiopian....and not describing himself or his people to you. In that case he would say Ethiopian. Even HialiAmanuel will tell YOU that he is an "Ethiopian". He will not tell you he is "Habesha" unless the circumstance are very casual and he knows that you already know him and what is implied by such term.

If HailAmanuel or myself opened an Ethiopian Restaurant a block form you it would say on the door "Ethiopian". The word "Haabshe" is ignored in nearly all important, official or serious circumstances. If you read the menu in the "Ethiopian" Restaurant you may read sometimes "Habeshe spices" . That is not common either but it does occur.

You will not find "Habeshe" Orthodox Tewahado Church. WE NEVER say that. It is unacceptable!

WE say "Ethiopian" Orthodox Tewhado Church....all the time.

WE are all from the Country 'Ethiopia'. WE never say the country of 'Habeshe'. Our national history and heritage is known only as 'Ethiopian' history and heritage. Nobody says 'Habeshe' history.

Even the holy books refer to us as Ethiopia or Cush....NOT 'Habeshe'.

I can go on and on.

The place for this word "Habeshe" is in common talk; it is colloquial. The term 'Habeshe" is contemporary to Ethiopia which is thousands of years old.

I think I have made my point as clear as I could.

I am not at odds with HialiAmanuel; his point is shared by many Ethiopians. Unfortunately that phrase regardless of its acceptance it is not a formal or proper description of us.

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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2008, 10:07:08 PM »

Peace my Brothers in Christ,

I was able to skim through your posts.  Didymus, I believe that you speak Arabic and maybe you grew up in Egypt for some time? 

Archdeacon Amde Tsion, when I speak with most people from the Arabic states [excuse me Didymus, I'm not calling you Arab] and they ask, "Where are you from?"

My reply is 'Ethiopia' in the 'English' response and 'Ana Habesha!' in (my bad) Arabic.

'Meshi...enta Habesha...katir kwayis!' is the response. 

...I think this is because of the simple fact that this is a reference to the peoples of Ethiopia and Eritrea.  Yes, I believe that Eritreans are one people with Ethiopian people.  We are one and we are Habesha too, but Eritreans have to be respected as Eritreans (in their own right). 

Maybe in New York the Eritreans label there restaurants as Ethiopian; perhaps they are not strong in number or the cuisine may not market well as Eritrean (absolutely nothing wrong with an association to Eritrea). 

On the other hand, in an area like Atlanta (Georgia), Eritreans own Eritrean restaurants and they also have very distinct dishes that are Eritrean. 

The word 'habesha' is used to refer to Ethiopians and Eritreans. Ethiopians and Eritreans use the term 'habesha' when referring to one another.  This is undeniable.

The EOTC used to be referred to as the Abyssinian Orthodox Church or the Church of Abyssinia.  You can see this in numerous ETHIOPIAN TEXTS by prominent HABESHA archbishops and memhirs (scholars) up until 30 years ago.

I agree with you Archdeacon, the term 'Habesha' amongst Ethiopians, Eritreans and Arab speaking states is a type of 'term of endearment'.  Although, using the term 'Habesha' has nothing to do with denying the great name 'Ethiopia'--Her many peoples, history, languages, attributes and of course, Her Holy Church. 

'I am too Pan-African minded to stand with you on the points you are making. Our backgrounds are very different. I admit too many Ethiopian national today will agree with you before me.

I have hanging in my house a large nicely framed print of HIM Hiali Selassie I standing center with all the heads of African States. That is Ethiopia to me.

I have an 18Th century map which shows the 'Ethiopic Ocean' spelled on the map Mare Aeitiopia. This is Ethiopia to me. This body of water was changed to be called the 'Atlantic Ocean' in the early 19Th century.'

Using the term 'Habesha' has nothing to do with denying the great name 'Ethiopia'--Her many peoples, history, languages, attributes and of course, Her Holy Church.  It has nothing to with not being a Pan-Africanist.  Many of today's Ethiopian nationals also treasure their Ethiopian saintly kings like Zere Ya'i'qob, Lalibela, Atse Gebre Meskel and the like. 

Ethiopia used to be a vast and wide kingdom that flourished for centuries.  All of us love this history and would love to have Ethiopia prosper in such ways again, but only God knows.  Now, we have Axum, Abay, Lalibela, Awash, Sidamo, Fasilidas and the rest...

Most of all, the Glory of the Ark (the Dwelling Place of the Godhead) is the glory of Ethiopia...to me.

Peace my brothers and thank you for the friendly debate.  I look forward to participating in more topics and posts by both of you respectively.

HaileAmanuel

 

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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2008, 03:57:18 PM »

Peace my Brothers in Christ,

I was able to skim through your posts.  Didymus, I believe that you speak Arabic and maybe you grew up in Egypt for some time? 

Archdeacon Amde Tsion, when I speak with most people from the Arabic states [excuse me Didymus, I'm not calling you Arab] and they ask, "Where are you from?"

My reply is 'Ethiopia' in the 'English' response and 'Ana Habesha!' in (my bad) Arabic.

'Meshi...enta Habesha...katir kwayis!' is the response. 

...I think this is because of the simple fact that this is a reference to the peoples of Ethiopia and Eritrea.  Yes, I believe that Eritreans are one people with Ethiopian people.  We are one and we are Habesha too, but Eritreans have to be respected as Eritreans (in their own right). 

Maybe in New York the Eritreans label there restaurants as Ethiopian; perhaps they are not strong in number or the cuisine may not market well as Eritrean (absolutely nothing wrong with an association to Eritrea). 

On the other hand, in an area like Atlanta (Georgia), Eritreans own Eritrean restaurants and they also have very distinct dishes that are Eritrean. 

The word 'habesha' is used to refer to Ethiopians and Eritreans. Ethiopians and Eritreans use the term 'habesha' when referring to one another.  This is undeniable.

The EOTC used to be referred to as the Abyssinian Orthodox Church or the Church of Abyssinia.  You can see this in numerous ETHIOPIAN TEXTS by prominent HABESHA archbishops and memhirs (scholars) up until 30 years ago.

I agree with you Archdeacon, the term 'Habesha' amongst Ethiopians, Eritreans and Arab speaking states is a type of 'term of endearment'.  Although, using the term 'Habesha' has nothing to do with denying the great name 'Ethiopia'--Her many peoples, history, languages, attributes and of course, Her Holy Church. 

'I am too Pan-African minded to stand with you on the points you are making. Our backgrounds are very different. I admit too many Ethiopian national today will agree with you before me.

I have hanging in my house a large nicely framed print of HIM Hiali Selassie I standing center with all the heads of African States. That is Ethiopia to me.

I have an 18Th century map which shows the 'Ethiopic Ocean' spelled on the map Mare Aeitiopia. This is Ethiopia to me. This body of water was changed to be called the 'Atlantic Ocean' in the early 19Th century.'

Using the term 'Habesha' has nothing to do with denying the great name 'Ethiopia'--Her many peoples, history, languages, attributes and of course, Her Holy Church.  It has nothing to with not being a Pan-Africanist.  Many of today's Ethiopian nationals also treasure their Ethiopian saintly kings like Zere Ya'i'qob, Lalibela, Atse Gebre Meskel and the like. 

Ethiopia used to be a vast and wide kingdom that flourished for centuries.  All of us love this history and would love to have Ethiopia prosper in such ways again, but only God knows.  Now, we have Axum, Abay, Lalibela, Awash, Sidamo, Fasilidas and the rest...

Most of all, the Glory of the Ark (the Dwelling Place of the Godhead) is the glory of Ethiopia...to me.

Peace my brothers and thank you for the friendly debate.  I look forward to participating in more topics and posts by both of you respectively.

HaileAmanuel

 



Thank you HaileAmanuel

God bless you, keep you and strengthen you....Amen

Adcn Amde Tsion
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"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 10:15:03 AM »

As Ethiopian is a Greek term, Αἰθίοψ "of burnt face," how would that be the original term?
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 11:28:09 AM »

As Ethiopian is a Greek term, Αἰθίοψ "of burnt face," how would that be the original term?

Every word that comes out of Greek does not necessarily come from Greek. This Goes for all languages.

It is our sense that since a word has gained currency in a general way that that word is to respected as originated form the language that popularized the term. Such as "Ethiopia" as used by the Greeks.

This word has indigenous Ethiopian etymology as well.

I am not disputing your point I want to first have you see that there is more.

The ancient Greeks in my opinion have done a very good job of recording African history.

Later efforts of the so-called "arrayan" and "master race" proponents have worked feverishly to undo the realities and confuse the facts of the ancient world which was largely influenced by 'Greek knowledge'.

These subversive cults used huge resources and influence to create a 'new knowledge' and as such a new reality which brought to us the current divisions and racism that blankets the world. These groups used the university system as a conduit for their currupted pseudo-sciences. Much of the false teachings has been dismissed form college curriculum. But we are still plagued with the those who are still hoping for a return for the former 'knowledge system' and work to maintain it to a certain degree.

As such we are still using the words "caucasian", "black", "white", "red", "yellow" and the like to discribe people. It is hard to fathom that the previous 'knowledge system' (Greek in nature) did not have 'color' descriptions of peoples. This was considered innane and un-intelligent...unsophiscated by anceint societies. The ancient world preferred deeper truths about man and his enviroment .... civilization. So terms like 'Ethiopia', 'Aegyptos', and other terms were used which said more about the nature of the people. This did not mean that people liked each other more than we do now. It is just how the world was a long time ago.

"Burnt face" is a simple albeit factual meaning of the term which is fine. This describes that land and the effects of the enviroment on the people. So we can get a glimpse of the culture and landscape from this term not just a skin color. However there is a deeper meaning as well. You did not use the ending 'Piyah'.

This ending distinguishes the vastness the ancient and distant race that the Greeks always wrote about when referring to people called 'Aethiop'. The Greeks referred to Ethiopia as the 'uttermost part of the earth' and also 'the most ancient of man' and also 'the land where the Gods dwell' (they mean the Greek Gods).

Here the the Greeks make a direct relationship bewteen Ethiopia and God (at lease 'God' as they understood him). The 'infinite' element is present in these aspects.

Even ancient Hebrew scripture referes to 'Ethiopians' as the "chosen" by God. (read the book of Amos). Again we see the 'infinite' element again.

So the term 'Ethiopia' is a mouthful. A very mysterious word filled with power and wonder.

Yes; it is "burnt face"; but it is alot more.

Thanks for your input.
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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