ignatius
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My Son Aidan... :-)
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« on: February 05, 2008, 07:36:55 PM » |
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St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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EXTERMINATE!
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2008, 11:11:21 PM » |
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My favorite: The Primacy of Peter: Essays in Ecclesiology and the Early Church, edited by Fr. John Meyendorff
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 04:58:32 AM » |
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Does Orthodoxy subscribe to the "Petrine theory?" I know that in the EOTC Faith we don't have a Pope, but we have a Patriarch. I have heard it said that we accept the Pope of Rome as "first among equals." I guess that means that we accept him as a Christian leader similar to the Orthodox Patriarchs, but we reject his status of infallibility when he makes certain pronouncements. I'm not sure, just speculating. I'm new to Orthodoxy, and this is a very good question.
Selam
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"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 09:14:26 AM » |
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The Epistle (XL) of St Gregory I, Pope of Rome to Pope Eulogius of Alexandria.
Note well how Pope Gregory of Rome says that the Pope of Alexandria and the Patriarch of Antioch also have the Keys of Peter and all three are equal.
It's an interesting view of the Petrine office by a Pope of Rome who saw it as the common possession of all Three Patriarchates of ancient Christianity.
We sometime forget that before there were the Five Patriarchates there were originally just three and all were founded by Saint Peter: Rome, Alexandria and Antioch.
"Your most sweet Holiness [Pope Eulogius of Alexandria] has spoken much in your letter to me about the chair of Saint Peter, Prince of the apostles, saying that he himself now sits on it in the persons of his successors.
"And indeed I acknowledge myself to be unworthy, not only in the dignity of such as preside, but even in the number of such as stand. But I gladly accepted all that has been said, in that he has spoken to me about Peter's chair who occupies Peter's chair. And to him it is said by the voice of the Truth, To thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven (Matth. xvi. 19). And again it is said to him, And when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren (xxii. 32). And once more, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou Me? Feed my sheep (Joh. xxi. 17).
"Wherefore though there are many apostles, yet with regard to the principality itself the See of the Prince of the apostles alone has grown strong in authority, which in three places is the See of one. For he himself exalted the See in which he deigned even to rest and end the present life [Rome]. He himself adorned the See to which he sent his disciple as evangelist [Alexandria]. He himself established the See in which, though he was to leave it, he sat for seven years [Antioch]. Since then it is the See of one, and one See, over which by Divine authority three bishops now preside, whatever good I hear of you, this I impute to myself.” (Book VII, Epistle XL)
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ialmisry
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 10:36:48 AM » |
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Does Orthodoxy subscribe to the "Petrine theory?" I know that in the EOTC Faith we don't have a Pope, but we have a Patriarch. Actually you do: Pope Shenoudah of Alexandria. Btw, the title Pope was originally given to Alexandria, Rome did not TAKE it until centuries later. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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username!
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 11:49:08 AM » |
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Does Orthodoxy subscribe to the "Petrine theory?" I know that in the EOTC Faith we don't have a Pope, but we have a Patriarch. I have heard it said that we accept the Pope of Rome as "first among equals." I guess that means that we accept him as a Christian leader similar to the Orthodox Patriarchs, but we reject his status of infallibility when he makes certain pronouncements. I'm not sure, just speculating. I'm new to Orthodoxy, and this is a very good question.
Selam
I'm not quite sure what ETOC Faith means. Could you tell me what ETOH is an acronym for? |
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 05:30:27 PM » |
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EOTC stands for Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.
Ethiopia used to be under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Church (and I guess also their Pope.) But Emperor Haile Selassie was successful in moving the Ethiopian Church to autonomous status under our own Patriarch, who at this time is Abuna Paulos.
Selam
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"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
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username!
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 07:58:48 PM » |
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EOTC stands for Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.
Ethiopia used to be under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Church (and I guess also their Pope.) But Emperor Haile Selassie was successful in moving the Ethiopian Church to autonomous status under our own Patriarch, who at this time is Abuna Paulos.
Selam
Thank you for explaining that to me Salem! |
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antiderivative
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 08:21:32 PM » |
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If you are asking if we have a bishop with universal jurisdiction, the answer is no. The Eastern Orthodox hierarchy as far as I know is organized like the Oriental Orthodox hierarchy. Constantinople is our 1st among equals.
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LBK
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 08:31:41 PM » |
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Look at the text of the Vigil (vespers and matins) service for the Orthodox feast of Apostles Peter and Paul. Any notions of Petrine "supremacy" cannot be sustained once one has absorbed what this liturgical text has to say. The service text dates from no later than the 8th century, so it is definitely pre-schism.
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Papa Gregorio
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St. Gregory the Great, Pope of Old Rome
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 08:42:23 PM » |
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Suggestions? One of the best i've come across is Jaroslav Pelikan's 2nd volume of his Christian Tradition series, "The Spirit of Eastern Christendom", which - among other issues - gives a very sound Orthodox representation of how the Petrine ministry was and continues to be understood. Not an 'Orthodox reference' as such because the author was Lutheran at the time of writing and converted to Orthodoxy during the last years of his life, one could say we've 'adopted' it as our own. |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 08:46:04 PM by Papa Gregorio »
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