Author Topic: Imagine if.....  (Read 7724 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Imagine if.....
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »
A search of the archives could probably turn up dozens of hits on this website alone.

I didn't read all the hits that I got from the search, but this post seems worth a read:

The Orthodox do not consider the "atonement" view of salvation as wrong since, as has been correctly, pointed out, it is very scriptural.  But this forensic viewpoint should not stand as pars pro toto which, unfortunately, has happened way too much in Western Christianity and especially in the Protestant branches.  I always found it ironic that these same Protestants who insist on such a juridical view of salvation consider such things as the Divine Liturgy, veneration of the saints, fasts, monasticism, etc. as legalism.  But, if we solely consign ourselves to ONLY (that's the key word) the atonement view of salvation as equivalent to a "not guilty" verdict which Christ paid for us on the cross, what comes after that?  Does the defendant just walk out of the courtroom and go on as if nothing happened?  When reading St. Paul, he uses the juridical terminology to a point, but then switches to another metaphor of Christ's redemptive work, namely of life/death.  For the Orthodox, Christ's redemptive work was necessary so that upon hearing the "not guilty" we are transformed and desire to achieve theosis, to participate in God's nature (II Pet. 2:14).

Again, the problem with the western viewpoint is that it is incomplete.  By itself, the Orthodox have no problem with the "vicarious atonement", but to leave it simply as a "not guilty" neglects the incarnation in that what Christ assumed was to be healed (St. Gregory the Theologian) and death becomes truly powerless.

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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Imagine if.....
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2008, 11:15:12 PM »
The Priest you speak of also thinks contraception is okay so I would not be placing all my trust in him and will not be asking him any questions about Holy Orthodoxy.

???
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Imagine if.....
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2008, 11:24:25 PM »
The Priest you speak of also thinks contraception is okay so I would not be placing all my trust in him and will not be asking him any questions about Holy Orthodoxy.

The Council of Constantinople of 1156 gives to damnation those who do not believe in the Atonement. The Bible speaks of Atonement. So you are going to take "resident Fr Ambrose" above Bible and the Sobornost of the Church as what the Orthodox Faith is?
Take note of him to whom you directed this reply, for he doesn't even claim to represent Orthodoxy except from his Papist point of view (use of pejorative permissible in this case, since that is how he identifies himself here), and he certainly doesn't present a very honest picture of our own Fr. Ambrose.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 11:58:46 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Heracleides

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Re: Imagine if.....
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2008, 11:55:59 PM »
The Priest you speak of also thinks contraception is okay so I would not be placing all my trust in him and will not be asking him any questions about Holy Orthodoxy.

The Council of Constantinople of 1156 gives to damnation those who do not believe in the Atonement. The Bible speaks of Atonement. So you are going to take "resident Fr Ambrose" above Bible and the Sobornost of the Church as what the Orthodox Faith is?

As opposed to what - the interpretations of what the Orthodox Faith is from a TOC member?  Thanks, but I will stick with Fr. Ambrose.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Imagine if.....
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2008, 01:53:11 AM »
Please remember this thread is meant for debating/discussing an "imagine if" situation.  Orthodox faith issues belong in the Faith forum (unless used to compare/contrast RC beliefs) and just a general warning, please keep all discussions civil.
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS