Author Topic: end times  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline Lightspeed1000

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end times
« on: January 25, 2008, 07:04:05 AM »
I believe that the Church will exist on Earth right up until the Second Coming....
And that  in the Bible it says that Christ will take care of his Flock out of the world and in the desert or Wilderness in the last days....


Does this mean that this Flock (the Church)  will have Bishops and Priests within it till Christ comes back?

Or can this Church exist till the end without any Bishop or Priest..?

Or if all the Bishops die or no longer exist ,does this mean that the Church no longer exists?


Thanks..
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: end times
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2008, 10:17:02 AM »
I believe that the Church will exist on Earth right up until the Second Coming....
And that  in the Bible it says that Christ will take care of his Flock out of the world and in the desert or Wilderness in the last days....


Does this mean that this Flock (the Church)  will have Bishops and Priests within it till Christ comes back?

Or can this Church exist till the end without any Bishop or Priest..?

Or if all the Bishops die or no longer exist ,does this mean that the Church no longer exists?


Thanks..

The Holy Spirit doesn't need four walls to Exist, God is in the people that belong to him, But while we have those four wall. It's best that we use them to our advantage.

The bible does state that the church will exist forever.

Quote
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline Lightspeed1000

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Re: end times
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 10:43:57 PM »
forget it
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Offline drewmeister2

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Re: end times
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 11:25:42 PM »
Yes, the Church must have bishops and priests until the end, otherwise without any bishops, there is no Church.  I can't remember where I read some exact quotes, but I believe the Fathers specified this in their writings, that there would always be bishops and priests around til the end (however, this is not to say that they won't all be in the Catacombs or will be very dispersed, etc). 
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IC    XC      ...and in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC
    +                   and APOSTOLIC CHURCH...
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: end times
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 12:29:13 AM »
Yes, the Church must have bishops and priests until the end, otherwise without any bishops, there is no Church.  I can't remember where I read some exact quotes, but I believe the Fathers specified this in their writings, that there would always be bishops and priests around til the end (however, this is not to say that they won't all be in the Catacombs or will be very dispersed, etc). 
I believe it was both Ss. Ignatius of Antioch and Cyprian of Carthage who posited that the Church and the episcopal office are inseparable--you can't have one without the other.  With Ignatius, the bishop, the assembly of the faithful, and the Eucharist make the Church the Church.  He even went so far as to say that those who are not in communion with and submission to the local bishop are outside the Church.  Thus, I believe that, when Christ promised that the powers of death would not prevail against His Church, His promise also implied that the Church's hierarchical office would never disappear.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 12:31:35 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Lightspeed1000

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Re: end times
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 01:41:34 AM »
thank you ..very good..

Peace.
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Offline Carpatho Russian

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Re: end times
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 02:52:55 PM »
I believe it was both Ss. Ignatius of Antioch and Cyprian of Carthage who posited that the Church and the episcopal office are inseparable--you can't have one without the other.
"Let no one do anything that pertains to the church apart from the bishop.  Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is under the bishop or one whom he has delegated.  Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be: just as wherever Christ Jesus may be, there is the catholic Church."
Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans

Or as paraphrased by Nicholas Afanasiev in The Church of the Holy Spirit, "...wherever the bishop is, there is the Church and, conversely, wherever the Church is, there is the bishop.  The bishop belongs to the Church, but the Church incorporates the bishop.  There can be no Church without a bishop, but there also can be no bishop without a Church."
Zastupnice christianov nepostydnaja, chodatajice ko Tvorcu nepreložnaja, ne prezri hr’išnych molenij hlasy, popredvari jako blahaja na pomošč nas, virno vopijuščich ti: Uskori na molitvu, i potščisja na umolenije, zastupajušči prisno Bohorodice, čtuščich t’a.