Topic: North American Unity

[Acolyte]

...
We do have people think, "They're not our ethnicity" or "They don't give to our tithe, why should I help?"
...

Which is that mysterious (non)jurisdiction in Orthodox Church with such believers?

Please don't assume it doesn't exist merely because you haven't seen it. That would be illogical.

[orthodoxlurker]

...
We do have people think, "They're not our ethnicity" or "They don't give to our tithe, why should I help?"
...

Which is that mysterious (non)jurisdiction in Orthodox Church with such believers?

Please don't assume it doesn't exist merely because you haven't seen it. That would be illogical.

I don't assume it. I'm asking you. I'm challenging you to reveal that "ethnic group".

Because, you know, we know each other for 'bout 11 centuries (when we newcomers came), I know there is no such ethnicity among us.

So, reveal your secret nonjurisdictional ethnic jurisdiction.

[Acolyte]

For example, it's a known fact that certain parishes in this country deny priests merely for not being their ethnicity. You should know about these things. Jurisdictionalism is sin.

[ozgeorge]

Jurisdictionalism is sin.

Um.... OK....
So now we have an anonymous Pope online who thinks he can tell us what is and isn't a sin. Gee, that's much better than "Juristictionalism".

[orthodoxlurker]

For example, it's a known fact that certain parishes in this country deny priests merely for not being their ethnicity. You should know about these things. Jurisdictionalism is sin.

Don't switch the subject. You claimed:

...
We do have people think, "They're not our ethnicity" or "They don't give to our tithe, why should I help?"
...

I claim there is no such an ethnicity among us and I'm challenging you to reveal which one is it.

[PeterTheAleut]

NOOOOOOOOOOO im against being under the newcalender Greek Church , i like it the way it is.....everybody under there own patriarch or metropolitan.....united in faith but seperate....thats the way i like it ah hu ah hu....

In the end, though, it doesn't matter one iota what you or anyone here wants personally.  The status quo of several Orthodox bishops in one city is NOT the norm specified in the canons, which makes our current situation a canonical crime indeed.  This must be remedied!

However, the required process of administrative unification will take a long time to complete, since there are so many complicated issues that must be discussed by the hierarchs of our various jurisdictions.  We may not see the final result in our lifetimes, so patience and perseverance in the face of seeming lack of progress and frequent setbacks is absolutely necessary.

[stashko]

For example, it's a known fact that certain parishes in this country deny priests merely for not being their ethnicity. You should know about these things. Jurisdictionalism is sin.

I suspect you may be  a latin  troll ,,you don't know what your talking about ...all orthodox are united in faith...i never run across a orthodox priest being denied because of his ethicinty anywhere...

[Acolyte]

I'm not telling you anything that you won't find out from being Orthodox long enough. I've been Orthodox longer than most who try to tell me what Orthodoxy is.

If you'd like to learn of some solutions to jurisdictionalism, I recommend this article:
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/TrenhamUnity.php

[orthodoxlurker]

...  The status quo of several Orthodox bishops in one city is NOT the norm specified in the canons, which makes our current situation a canonical crime indeed.  This must be remedied!

AFAIK, I've heard the consent was already reached in SCOBA to cease appointing the successors of reposed bishops with the city in the same town where another bishop does have the seat.

Gentlemen agreement was violated by EP (I can't remember the city).

[orthodoxlurker]

I'm not telling you anything that you won't find out from being Orthodox long enough. I've been Orthodox longer than most who try to tell me what Orthodoxy is.

...

I'm not teaching you. I'm just asking. I'm challenging you. Reveal us the ethnicity.

[orthodoxlurker]

For example, it's a known fact that certain parishes in this country deny priests merely for not being their ethnicity. You should know about these things. Jurisdictionalism is sin.

I suspect you may be  a latin  troll ,,you don't know what your talking about ...all orthodox are united in faith...i never run across a orthodox priest being denied because of his ethicinty anywhere...

Me 2.

[Acolyte]

I'm not telling you anything that you won't find out from being Orthodox long enough. I've been Orthodox longer than most who try to tell me what Orthodoxy is.

...

I'm not teaching you. I'm just asking. I'm challenging you. Reveal us the ethnicity.

Because this relates to my own family, I don't really want to talk about specifics. You will find out soon enough. Just remember that Christ is God, regardless of the sins of His followers.

[stashko]

NOOOOOOOOOOO im against being under the newcalender Greek Church , i like it the way it is.....everybody under there own patriarch or metropolitan.....united in faith but seperate....thats the way i like it ah hu ah hu....

In the end, though, it doesn't matter one iota what you or anyone here wants personally.  The status quo of several Orthodox bishops in one city is NOT the norm specified in the canons, which makes our current situation a canonical crime indeed.  This must be remedied!

However, the required process of administrative unification will take a long time to complete, since there are so many complicated issues that must be discussed by the hierarchs of our various jurisdictions.  We may not see the final result in our lifetimes, so patience and perseverance in the face of seeming lack of progress and frequent setbacks is absolutely necessary.

Brother many faithful orthodox don't worry about this above,,their to busy working out there salvation ..i didn't gave it much thought ,until i started reading about it here...
i attended many orthodox churches be it Greek russian ,ukrainian ,bulgarian,romainian,i lked all the differences culture ,food music i never looked at them a seperated brothers ,,but united in one faith holy orthodoxy...

[orthodoxlurker]

I'm not telling you anything that you won't find out from being Orthodox long enough. I've been Orthodox longer than most who try to tell me what Orthodoxy is.

...

I'm not teaching you. I'm just asking. I'm challenging you. Reveal us the ethnicity.

Because this relates to my own family, I don't really want to talk about specifics. You will find out soon enough. Just remember that Christ is God, regardless of the sins of His followers.

What you said is a lie.

There is no such ethnicity among Orthodox who'd say "I won't help them while they are in trouble because they aren't of mine ethnicity".

There is no such one among us.

Americans are not ethnicity, except the native ones, so what you say is simply impossible.

You are troll.

[Acolyte]

I'm not telling you anything that you won't find out from being Orthodox long enough. I've been Orthodox longer than most who try to tell me what Orthodoxy is.

...

I'm not teaching you. I'm just asking. I'm challenging you. Reveal us the ethnicity.

Because this relates to my own family, I don't really want to talk about specifics. You will find out soon enough. Just remember that Christ is God, regardless of the sins of His followers.

What you said is a lie.

There is no such ethnicity among Orthodox who'd say "I won't help them while they are in trouble because they aren't of mine ethnicity".

There is no such one among us.

Americans are not ethnicity, except the native ones, so what you say is simply impossible.

You are troll.

Please stop making false statements. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. From the beginning of Orthodoxy in this country, to the present, sins have been committed between Orthodox Christians merely for belonging to different ethnicities. Your ignorance is not my problem.

[FrChris]

where's that popcorn emoticon when I need it?

[Acolyte]

I hope this is a forum capable of rational conversation. Otherwise, it's a waste of my time.

[FrChris]

No one here is making you post!

[Acolyte]

No one here needs to be irrational.

[PeterTheAleut]

No one here needs to be irrational.

Least of all, you.

[Acolyte]

No one here needs to be irrational.

Least of all, you.

Yes, exactly. That is why I've rationally defended every point I've made so far on this forum, other than that which should already be obvious to those who've been Orthodox long enough. Again, an irrational forum is unworthy of my time. I might have to leave in the near future.

[FrChris]

I might have to leave in the near future.

Then that is your choice. Again, since no one is making you post here, your statements of this forum potentially being irrational yet combined with your continued posting here, points to a deeper personal problem of yours than any possible deficiencies of this forum.

You are free to leave at any time.

[Acolyte]

And all the members of this forum who display irrationality are welcome to end it at any time. I recommend studying the rules of logic.

[PeterTheAleut]

No one here needs to be irrational.

Least of all, you.

Yes, exactly. That is why I've rationally defended every point I've made so far on this forum, other than that which should already be obvious to those who've been Orthodox long enough. Again, an irrational forum is unworthy of my time. I might have to leave in the near future.

You do realize, though, that it doesn't matter how thoroughly and logically you defend your points?  If you do so in a constantly emotional (e.g., angry, defensive, or panicked) tone, no amount of logic will overcome the perception that you're being irrational.

[orthodoxlurker]

...

Please stop making false statements. ...
Your ignorance is not my problem.

Listen, lady.

I'm not making false statements. I'm just challenging you to point to the ethnicity of Orthodox Christians not wanting to help someone for just not being of their own ethnicity.

I say there are no such ones among us.

And we know each other for about 12 centuries, when we newcommers came. Well, that's not quite accurate, I disregarded Aleuts, Tlingit and other American natives, they came after us. But I bet they are the same.

So, speak up, reveal which ethnicity rejected to help some among the brethren for they were of different ethnicity.

[stashko]

where's that popcorn emoticon when I need it?

 Father....bless.....all i could find is this ear of corn....

[FrChris]

Thank you, Stashko! 

[Acolyte]

I'm sorry to have caused hurt or offense. Sadly, there are certain things you are going to learn the hard way. Just remember that Christ is God, regardless of the sins of His followers.

[orthodoxlurker]

... From the beginning of Orthodoxy in this country, to the present, sins have been committed between Orthodox Christians merely for belonging to different ethnicities.

From the beggining of Christianty sins have been committed for various reasons. And there are no other ones but sinners among us Orthodox.

But reveal us where, an entire ethnic parish, or an entire diocese, not to mention an autocephalia, refused to help someone for not being of their own ethnicity.

Do tell us, before you stop wasting your time here.

[Acolyte]

These problems that I allude to will hopefully be resolved in the future. Until then, please read this article:
Orthodox Reunion: Overcoming the Curse of Jurisdictionalism in America

link removed since it had been provided earlier in this thread.

+Fr Chris
Admin

Acolyte---

Do you have any additional information to support your contention, instead of just (one could say irrationally...  ) referring to the same source?

As Gandhi states, be the change you want in the world.

[Marc1152]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

[Acolyte]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

The Russians in the United States can maintain their traditions while being under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America. Otherwise, the Greeks can be under the Russian Patriarch. I don't really care. We just need to end this division among jurisdictional lines. We also need to end this OCA autocephaly nonsense.

[ialmisry]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

The Russians in the United States can maintain their traditions while being under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America. Otherwise, the Greeks can be under the Russian Patriarch. I don't really care. We just need to end this division among jurisdictional lines. We also need to end this OCA autocephaly nonsense.

What nonsense?

[PeterTheAleut]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

The Russians in the United States can maintain their traditions while being under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America. Otherwise, the Greeks can be under the Russian Patriarch. I don't really care. We just need to end this division among jurisdictional lines. We also need to end this OCA autocephaly nonsense.

What nonsense?

Trying to prove a point again?  By quoting a reply posted several months ago from a poster who is now banned?

[ialmisry]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

The Russians in the United States can maintain their traditions while being under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America. Otherwise, the Greeks can be under the Russian Patriarch. I don't really care. We just need to end this division among jurisdictional lines. We also need to end this OCA autocephaly nonsense.

What nonsense?

Trying to prove a point again?  By quoting a reply posted several months ago from a poster who is now banned?

That's not what the profile says.

I came across this in response to this thread (where I commented on this post, as the Chief Secretary displays the same "thought")

A poster after the Chief Secretary's own heart.  What "autocephaly" nonsense is unspecified, just derived.  The same making diaspora of the natives ("AK not a state": neither was FL or LA).  The reason why we need to bring history in, to clue people in.

trying to find out about what was posted about the Romanians, which was referred to in that thread.

Has something changed in the last several months?  How about last month, since the Chief Secretary expounded these "thoughts" to a captive (?) audience at Holy Cross seminary?  The official line?

[PeterTheAleut]

Since the Greek Orthodox Church is the oldest within the continental United States (Alaska was not a state), and since it is the largest jurisdiction, and since it is under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch, and since nations do not traditionally have their own national jurisdictions unless their people are Orthodox, the best solution for unity would be if all jurisdictions were to unite under the Greek Orthodox Church.

Sorry, Russian Jurisdiction is well established at this point.

The Russians in the United States can maintain their traditions while being under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America. Otherwise, the Greeks can be under the Russian Patriarch. I don't really care. We just need to end this division among jurisdictional lines. We also need to end this OCA autocephaly nonsense.

What nonsense?

Trying to prove a point again?  By quoting a reply posted several months ago from a poster who is now banned?

That's not what the profile says.

Yeah, I just noticed that.

I came across this in response to this thread (where I commented on this post, as the Chief Secretary displays the same "thought")

A poster after the Chief Secretary's own heart.  What "autocephaly" nonsense is unspecified, just derived.  The same making diaspora of the natives ("AK not a state": neither was FL or LA).  The reason why we need to bring history in, to clue people in.

trying to find out about what was posted about the Romanians, which was referred to in that thread.

You do notice that the post you quoted says nothing about Romania?

Has something changed in the last several months?  How about last month, since the Chief Secretary expounded these "thoughts" to a captive (?) audience at Holy Cross seminary?  The official line?

I think you need to go back to the "Challenges of Orthodoxy" thread to find that out.