Author Topic: Continuing Schismatics  (Read 1921 times)

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Offline prodromas

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Continuing Schismatics
« on: January 19, 2008, 12:37:47 AM »
I was wondering how many pre-protestant (pre Great Schism) schismatics groups are there still practicing? (For arguments sake this does not count the OO, EO or RC but rather churches like the nestorian churches)
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

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Offline buzuxi

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 07:00:39 AM »
Other than the Assyrian Church of the East, there arent any. There are however groups which have joined the Eastern Catholics over the centuries. The Chaldean catholics are the Assyrian counterparts. And the Maronites were originally monotheletes who joined Rome around the 15th century.

Sorry, we don't use the U-word around here.
Veniamin
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 09:14:08 AM by Veniamin »

Offline Joseph-James

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 10:23:02 AM »
There is another Orthodox website where a fairly complete list of groups that are Orthodox, or claim to be but aren't, can be viewed:

http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

I found it rather helpful in trying to discern who's where today.
Jim

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2008, 11:26:35 AM »
There is another Orthodox website where a fairly complete list of groups that are Orthodox, or claim to be but aren't, can be viewed:

http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

I found it rather helpful in trying to discern who's where today.

Figuring out who is truly schismatic and who isn't isn't this easily ascertained.  Many of the groups on that list are indeed vagante groups, but there are also some on there, like my Synod (the Hellenic Orthodox Traditionalist Church of America), who shouldn't be on there.  Anyone who knows anything of our history will easily be able to see what we are not like some of those other groups on that list.  Our reposed bishop in America, Met. Petros, was ordained by ROCOR and was close friends with Abp. Averky of ROCOR, and had close relations with ROCOR for his whole life for the most part.  Also, Met. Laurus and our current bishop, Met. Pavlos, are close friends.  I would hardly compare my Synod to some of the other Synods on there who just started out of nowhere.  So you actually have to look at the background of some of the churches on that list to figure out whether they are truly vagante or not.

I don't want to start a whole debate on the canonicity of my Synod, nor am I going to get into one, and I don't think that is the point of this thread anyways, but I think that people should at least learn to take a more objective look at some groups on that list.  I don't think that figuring out who is and isn't Orthodox can be done so easily with some sort of checklist.     
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 11:35:09 AM by drewmeister2 »
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 05:07:00 PM »
Sorry I know this issue might sound polemical but I am not here to argue the canonicity of any church or group but rather find any older still continuing churches like the nestorians.
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again

Offline VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 10:19:59 PM »
Other the the RC, the EO, the OO and the above mentioned Maronites, Assyrians and Chaledeans, there aren't any.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 12:32:39 AM »
Sorry I know this issue might sound polemical but I am not here to argue the canonicity of any church or group but rather find any older still continuing churches like the nestorians.

There might be some Bogomils in Bulgaria. ;D
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 12:33:46 AM »
I have heard there are still some Arians in Germany.

Offline antiderivative

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 01:25:10 AM »
Quote
I have heard there are still some Arians in Germany.

Are you making a Nazi pun, or are you for real? I thought Arians died out centuries ago. Of course, their influence hasn't, technically they exist in many different denominational forms.
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 02:26:36 AM »
Quote
I have heard there are still some Arians in Germany.

Are you making a Nazi pun, or are you for real? I thought Arians died out centuries ago. Of course, their influence hasn't, technically they exist in many different denominational forms.

No I am not making any puns.  The barbarians in northern Europe in the 4th and 5th centuries were Arians.  I have heard that there are some that are still around in Germany. 

Offline antiderivative

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 12:15:20 PM »
Wow, I guess Germany would be the place that would have them since original Arians were mostly Barbarians.
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Offline Andrew21091

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 04:20:05 PM »
There is also the Arian Catholic Church who have churches in England.

Offline antiderivative

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 05:22:27 PM »
Here's their website:
http://www.holy-catholic.org/arian/arian-home.html

They claim Constantine was an Arian and that he was baptized by an Arian bishop.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 05:29:33 PM »
Here's their website:
http://www.holy-catholic.org/arian/arian-home.html

This is from "their" website:
Quote
"The Arian Catholic Church has launched a new Global Internet Diocese, which will serve people around the world through the internet." http://www.holy-catholic.org/arian/arian-introduction.html#Lincoln
Oh great, a "virtual diocese". You virtually don't have to go to Church, you virtually don't have to meet other human beings, you virtually don't have to break bread with anyone.....
My guess is this "church" is one person with too much time on their hands.
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« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 05:29:57 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline mike

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Re: Continuing Schismatics
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 06:21:44 PM »
They claim Constantine was an Arian and that he was baptized by an Arian bishop.

By Eusebius of Nicomedia so they're right with that.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 06:41:09 PM by mike »