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Poll
Question: Anyone want to discuss this?
Discuss a new book, anyone? - 2 (4.8%)
Who wants to discuss Dr. Morey's new book? - 2 (4.8%)
I don't want to discuss some heretic's book. - 34 (81%)
Who made this poll?  Honestly?  I want more options! - 4 (9.5%)
Total Voters: 42

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Author Topic: Morey's Book on Eastern Orthodoxy, The Body of Christ  (Read 25179 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 18, 2008, 03:30:02 AM »

Just started reading a new book on Eastern Orthodoxy by Dr. Robert Morey.
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 03:37:24 AM »

Does anyone want to discuss the new book on Eastern Orthodoxy by Dr. Robert Morey?  There is a review online at biblicalthought.com describing the book chapter by chapter. anyone?
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 03:37:24 AM »

Just started reading a new book on Eastern Orthodoxy by Dr. Robert Morey.

Gosh, I never knew that there was a group of religions that went by the name "Eastern Orthodoxy". Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 04:09:27 AM »

It would be interesting but I wouldn't want to pay 16 dollars to support his heresy.  From the synopsis it seems that he has actually read up on the topic unlike most Evangelicals, but some of it is rather stupid sounding just from the review of the book, like the Ancient Egyptian paganization theory and statements like, "This is well-documented and beyond refutation." (pg. 67) and "This chapter is probably the most difficult material to comprehend, but continuing in the same tradition of his previous 44 books, Dr. Morey simplifies big concepts into bite-sized fragments."

Also I noticed:

Quote
One advantage in purchasing multiple copies of the book is because, usually, Protestant converts to Eastern Orthodoxy like to read, and read a lot.  So, this book acts like a big fat tract that will get read, and as I mentioned earlier, perhaps by God's sovereign grace He'll save some.  There will also be mass discussions on the internet.  So, get your copies today and get up-to-speed so you can participate intelligently in these highly influential discussion forums.  See biblicalthought.com for forum and blog listings discussing this book and its topics.

So I wonder if you are a troll sent by this site to:

a) cause us to all go read this book and "convert" to its heresy
b) make the author lots of money off book sales
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 04:19:05 AM by Anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 04:18:15 AM »


MODERATION:
Please do not cross post.
You have already posted a one liner advertising this third rate rubbish http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,3406.msg203498.html#msg203498.
If you want to discuss Orthodox Christianity vs. Evangelical Protestantism, then please do so in the Orthodox - Other Christian forum.
Don't waste our time by just trying to get us to buy a book.
Please respect our forum and don't use it as cheap advertising for something you can't sell to anyone with any brain.

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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 05:01:04 AM »


Please respect our forum and don't use it as cheap advertising for something you can't sell to anyone with any brain.

My dear George, are you suggesting that this person will find people here without brains?  Shocked Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 08:12:18 AM »

Gosh, I never knew that there was a group of religions that went by the name "Eastern Orthodoxy". Tongue

So we're all the descendants of Egyptian pagans that took over the church?  Can't be true; we don't have any icons of cats anywhere.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 03:16:14 PM »

My brother in law is a Mennonite Pastor, I am sure he will pick up a copy if he finds out it exists. Roll Eyes Although, I won't be volunteering the title as good reading material. Grin

It is interesting that in the little review of the book they phrase the sentance about Cyril's death to make it appear that he was murdered by the Eastern Orthodox church.
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 06:57:38 PM »

My dear George, are you suggesting that this person will find people here without brains?  Shocked Tongue

Sure, if the zombies get here first.
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 07:49:48 PM »

Sure, if the zombies get here first.


That's an acute possibility. I've just been reading Dr. Morey's blog, and they already seem to have got to him.
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008, 07:53:07 PM »

That's an acute possibility. I've just been reading Dr. Morey's blog, and they already seem to have got to him.

Braaaaiiinnnnnsssss........
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2008, 08:02:52 PM »

It's amazing how many of these Evangelicals think that smug self-satisfaction is a substitute for intelligent academic discourse.
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2008, 12:37:08 AM »

I wonder if I should buy a used copy to use for refutation. Sometimes it's good to know what your enemy thinks. I am surprised that an Evangelical Protestant actually knows who St Cyril is though Wink
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 01:57:53 AM »

Indeed!  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 02:08:21 AM »

I wonder if I should buy a used copy to use for refutation. Sometimes it's good to know what your enemy thinks. I am surprised that an Evangelical Protestant actually knows who St Cyril is though Wink

Quote from the blog: By using the education that this book provides in evangelism and apologetics, you will be able to irrefutably expose the rotten pillars of Eastern Orthodoxy.

I don't know, Anastasios, it looks like it's pretty powerful medicine that we pagan ritualists should stay away from. Tongue
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 09:16:30 AM »

Quote from the blog: By using the education that this book provides in evangelism and apologetics, you will be able to irrefutably expose the rotten pillars of Eastern Orthodoxy.

I don't know, Anastasios, it looks like it's pretty powerful medicine that we pagan ritualists should stay away from. Tongue

We'll have to consult our cat-god idols to know for sure, though.
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 09:32:03 AM »

oom sma ram oom sam ram oom sam ram  laugh
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 10:00:18 AM »

We'll have to consult our cat-god idols to know for sure, though.

The auspices are not good. The Idolised One has turned his nose up at the evening offering. We who are his slaves are in a tizzy. It does not bode well for the reading of the "Book of Morey".
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 11:22:31 AM »

I wonder if I should buy a used copy to use for refutation. Sometimes it's good to know what your enemy thinks. I am surprised that an Evangelical Protestant actually knows who St Cyril is though Wink

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm also not comfortable ridiculing those who disagree, no matter how flawed their arguments may be.  I'm certainly glad no one treated me that way when I was first inquiring.
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2008, 03:58:51 PM »

This would be the same Morey of "Allah the Moon-God" fame, which Jack Chick found so useful against Muslims. Let's just say there are better apologetics out there.  Wink
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2008, 05:30:15 PM »

An inquirer would be humble in thier questions not saying such outrageous things as this book.
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2008, 05:51:59 PM »

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm also not comfortable ridiculing those who disagree, no matter how flawed their arguments may be.  I'm certainly glad no one treated me that way when I was first inquiring.

I agree that usually people should be treated with courtesy, especially inquirers.  But in the case of Dr Morey, he has obviously done his homework and rejected Christ's Church. Now, there may be some underlying reason that is the case, but from the shrill tone of that review (which I bet was written by one of his friends) I think it is clear that he is against the faith and preaching heresy bare-headed. In this instance, limited ridicule could be acceptable, if the ridicule has a purpose (the Fathers often ridiculed heretics that were teaching heresy bare-headed, but they obviously had a reason to do so). Whether the ridicule above had a purpose or not would have to be judged by the reader.
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2008, 07:29:34 PM »

Quote
In the first chapter, Dr. Morey documents how much like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy began well when the Jews from Egypt received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10).  When they returned to Egypt, they shared their faith in Jesus the Messiah and founded a church on Egyptian soil.  However, much like the early Roman Church again, the infant Jewish church began to attract the attention of local pagans.  Eventually, the pagans outnumbered the Jewish Christians and drove out the Messianic church founders because of their protest of the importation of pagan religious ideas and rituals into the church.

Quote
Dr. Morey's many years of intense academic research

If that's intense to Dr Morey, then he should stay away from coffee.
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2008, 07:46:49 PM »

I edited the poll to be less one-sided Wink
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 07:48:22 PM »

^^LOL! I also was planning to edit the poll...but I couldn't think of a way to be as polite as you put it!  Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2008, 08:25:50 PM »

My feeling on this thread, for what it's worth - and that's probably not much;

Dr Morey's anti-Orthodox book was introduced into an Orthodox forum in an extremely rude manner. If the poster had been a genuine inquirer they would have respectfully asked questions regarding the claims found in the book instead of sneakily inserting it into the "What's everyone reading" thread. That particular thread's purpose is neither for inquiry nor apologetics. The intention to be contentious seems quite explicit and the blog regarding the book itself provided the ingredients for a satirical rebuffing. 

Anyway, the mood of the Idolised One is still inauspices and I feel obligated to purchase him an offering of pet grass today.  Grin


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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2008, 08:26:06 PM »

FYI: Harold Cerula (HWC) has left the same message on the yahoo Orthodox Forum.
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2008, 11:25:04 PM »

OK, in this book by Protestant Reformed scholar Dr. Robert Morey Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian? he claims to "refute" the “group of religions that go by the name Easter Orthodoxy.”

There are some pretty serious charges here, leveled at the Eastern Church, and I’m looking for a discussion to join (or start) as I go through the material.  I know he is from Westminster seminary (Presbyterian/Calvinist), so I don’t expect for him to be entirely sympathetic to Orthodoxy. 
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 11:28:11 PM »

OK, in this book by Protestant Reformed scholar Dr. Robert Morey Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian? he claims to "refute" the “group of religions that go by the name Easter Orthodoxy.” 


Perhaps you should then troll on one of those 'Easter Orthodox' boards...

That's not us, and your lack of even spelling correctly the focus of this site displays your incredible lack of knowledge of topics discussed here!
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2008, 11:34:25 PM »

Then don't participate in the discussion with me. If you are ever in a merciful "Christian" mood and willing to overlook a typo, them hit me up. By your own standards, your last statement is incoherent! Any serious Christians out there?
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2008, 11:40:37 PM »

Yes, because I am looking for a discussion. How does one "strike up" discussions these days? And how does one do it without being judged as a "troll?"
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2008, 11:53:08 PM »

Yes, because I am looking for a discussion. How does one "strike up" discussions these days? And how does one do it without being judged as a "troll?"

Well, look at the way you started this one.  Cross that method off the list.
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2008, 11:57:02 PM »

Does anyone want to discuss the new book on Eastern Orthodoxy by Dr. Robert Morey?
A to-the-point reply which I was sent..

Harold,

I'm not. I barely have time to read things that make sense, and that are by people who know their philosophy, their theology, and their history. I might read it to make fun of it, but I'd rather read Walker Percy: at least he has something worthwhile to say about the Faith. I read the far more irenic book by Letham, "Through Western Eyes" (actually, I critiqued it for him before it went to press) and found that a better basis for discussion.

To be honest, though, just from the review, Morey is potty, if not out-right addlepated. Anyone who can indict the Cappadocians of Neoplatonism, or who somehow thinks the
whole Eastern church was highjacked by some Alexandrian vagantes of Hermes Trismegistus, which cancer than overtook the whole of the Greek Church, has been drinking out of Mormon canteens. In short, he seems none too different than so many Reformed poseurs, who having obtained some form of MDiv or Dwhatever, go foaming at the mouth about things they are patently ignorant of (e.g., messrs. Jordan and Kineer); and being a former Presbyterian elder in the Philadelphia presbytery of the PCA, I have met many of the same. 

Morey seems the dispeptic type, whereas aside from thinking him wrong, Letham at least did do a good bit of homework. Further, he is not out to convert the Orthodox to
"Christianity" (he also has a better pedigree, actually possessing a real PhD from either St. Andrews or Edinburgh--I can't remember which). For dribble like this from Morey I would fail my freshmen Western Civ students. It takes enough energy to read their papers, so why should I waste my time and energy on someone who doesn't know
enough to right an educated book (that tripe about Buddha as an Orthodox saint-you should read what the forward to Lossky's book actually says-certainly tears it for me). I see no difference in his argumentation than that used by liberals to attack that which we call The Faith of the catholic Church.

If you have questions about Orthodoxy, go to some people who actually know about it, such as those at Monachos.net, or at energeticprocession.com. Granted, if you think
Morey is worth reading, and he somehow floats your boat, you may not have the wherewithal to keep up with the likes of the fellows at those sites.

All the best,
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2008, 11:58:42 PM »

I thought I saw it over at Byzcath ...
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2008, 11:59:27 PM »

As far as I am concerned, I would only read such books under the guidance of a priest.

If he is not "sympathetic to Orthodoxy," then great. All the power to him. We are what we are. And if he can't accept the Church of Christ on Her terms, then he will answer to it.
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2008, 12:04:56 AM »

Technically Harold this really isn't about Discussion now is it? Robert Morey seems to have set his pre-conceived ideas before he did his research? Had he done a Perspective similar to Three Views of Eastern Orthodoxy from Evangelicalism from the Zondervan series than both sides would presented two diametrically opposed positions: soteriology vs. Augustinianism. This way the Calvinist would object to how Eastern Christians view Salvation rather than dogmatically asserting it as wrong.
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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2008, 12:15:14 AM »

As far as I am concerned, I would only read such books under the guidance of a priest.

If he is not "sympathetic to Orthodoxy," then great. All the power to him. We are what we are. And if he can't accept the Church of Christ on Her terms, then he will answer to it.
Took a quick look at the link with chapter titles and summaries. It's just a printed version of this website.

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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2008, 12:17:18 AM »

OK, in this book by Protestant Reformed scholar Dr. Robert Morey Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian? he claims to "refute" the “group of religions that go by the name Easter Orthodoxy.”
*
Morey should read the Protestant theologian Harnack who wrote, "the Orthodox Church is in her entire structure alien to the Gospel and a perversion of the Christian religion, its reduction to the level of pagan antiquity." 

I have always treasured that quote and taken a great pride in it, perhaps even a sinful pride... mea culpa!  But are we not doing something right if Protestant theologians speak so highly of us :-)
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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2008, 12:21:37 AM »

We'll have to consult our cat-god idols to know for sure, though.

Are we Catholics aloud to worship our cat-god idols along side you, or is that against the cannons?  Wink
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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2008, 12:32:18 AM »

HWC, you introduce yourself to this forum by plugging the same book on three different threads in three different sections, and your third post follows a global moderator's demand that you not cross-post like this.  And you want us to discuss this book with you?  I DON'T THINK SO!
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« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2008, 12:33:58 AM »

It's ok papist come join were all godless heathens anyway so I guess anything goes! oh holy feline we shall worship your holy icons and scripture at www.canihazacheezeburger.com we shall also worship your holy servant Mrs.Y for she knows much about the Holy kiteney!
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(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
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« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2008, 12:41:53 AM »

Are we Catholics aloud to worship our cat-god idols along side you, or is that against the cannons?  Wink

Her Divine Worship, Lizzie I, says it will be acceptable, so long as the proper offerings of fish are made.
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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2008, 12:42:59 AM »

HWC, you introduce yourself to this forum by plugging the same book on three different threads in three different sections, and your third post follows a global moderator's demand that you not cross-post like this.  And you want us to discuss this book with you?  I DON'T THINK SO!

Hear, hear!  Grin

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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2008, 12:43:00 AM »

Hi Harold:
There is little interest in debating you on this book because even a cursory review of Dr. Morey's website and book review shows a highly biased and polemical tome. There is nowhere to go with this. The majority of the regulars here know what primary sources are when researching historical events and have read more than a few of them. I strongly recommend to you to do the same.
If you are truly interested in this topic then pick a point in the book and request or look up a list of resources to read and then READ them. You will encounter many documents that will hold dramatically different viewpoints about historical events than you are used to.
For my own reading I do not appreciate, in principal, polemical writing clothed as "history" even if it espouses a viewpoint I hold. The net result of such literature is deleterious to ones own intellect and causes unnecessary conflict.
It may come as a suprise to you but a good number of academics do in fact write non-polemical historical books about early Christianity as well as the religious climate of the Roman Empire at this time. Perhaps you could look into that.

In a nutshell.
1)We know that this book contains material picked and chosen to support particular assumptions.
2)We are not going to waste our good time talking about it.
3)Go do your homework.

God Bless

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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2008, 01:18:19 AM »

Harold,

 First, you may want to consider introducing yourself when joining any group be it people on the street or on an internet forum.  It's just common courtesy that signals to the others that you are genuinely interested in them and wish to be taken seriously.  Secondly, upon entering your very first dialogue with people, it's typically not in good taste to begin with a book that portrays them in a negative, (and erroneous) manner.  This is considered a no-no in polite company.  Imagine if you will if I not only approached you and your family with a book that portrayed y'all negatively but also wished to discuss it chapter by chapter.  Just a few thoughts for you to ponder.

In Christ,

Gabriel
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