Difference between Apolytikion and Troparion?

[SakranMM]

Is there a difference, or are they merely interchangeable terms?

[Elisha]

I've been wondering that myself too.

[Elisha]

Just answered my own question (and your's):

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apolytikion

Troparion
From OrthodoxWiki
(Redirected from Apolytikion)

Troparion (also tropar; plural troparia) is a type of hymn in Byzantine music, in the Orthodox Church and other Eastern Christian churches. It is a short hymn of one stanza, or one of a series of stanzas; this may carry the further connotation of a hymn interpolated between psalm verses.

The term most often refers to the apolytikion, the thematic hymn which closes Vespers. (In Greek churches, the apolytikion troparion is known simply as the apolytikion; in most other churches, it is known simply as the troparion.) This troparion serves as a thematic hymn and is repeated at every service of the day.

Troparia are also found as the stanzas of canons. Such troparia are modeled on the irmoi of the ode.

Troparia are also sometimes used as refrains for chanted psalm verses, though stichera more often serve this function.

[Fr. George]

Just answered my own question (and your's):

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apolytikion

Troparion
From OrthodoxWiki
(Redirected from Apolytikion)

Troparion (also tropar; plural troparia) is a type of hymn in Byzantine music, in the Orthodox Church and other Eastern Christian churches. It is a short hymn of one stanza, or one of a series of stanzas; this may carry the further connotation of a hymn interpolated between psalm verses.

The term most often refers to the apolytikion, the thematic hymn which closes Vespers. (In Greek churches, the apolytikion troparion is known simply as the apolytikion; in most other churches, it is known simply as the troparion.) This troparion serves as a thematic hymn and is repeated at every service of the day.

Troparia are also found as the stanzas of canons. Such troparia are modeled on the irmoi of the ode.

Troparia are also sometimes used as refrains for chanted psalm verses, though stichera more often serve this function.

Uh-huh.  My short synopsis for you would be this: troparion is a generic term for a hymn; apolytikion (from apolysis, "dismissal") is the final hymn of Vespers (and Matins, when done in its full form), and that's where it got its name from.  It is considered thematic for the saint, and is also used near the beginning of Matins (with the chanting of "God is the Lord") during some of the occasional services, and at the Small Entrance in Liturgy.

[Cowboy]

Our choir director and Parish Council have been seriously discussing eliminating the use of words like troparion, kontakion, theotokion, anaphora, etc. in favor of their English translations--which I might add--are difficult to come to agreement on. Some feel that these terms are so Orthodox that you might as well be Protestant if you change Troparion to Today's Theme. Others totally disagree. Thoughts?

Copwboy

[Αριστοκλής]

Thoughts? Sure, use both. 

[Schultz]

Our choir director and Parish Council have been seriously discussing eliminating the use of words like troparion, kontakion, theotokion, anaphora, etc. in favor of their English translations--which I might add--are difficult to come to agreement on. Some feel that these terms are so Orthodox that you might as well be Protestant if you change Troparion to Today's Theme. Others totally disagree. Thoughts?

Copwboy

I've seen in a number of English language books written about Orthodoxy in the 19th century use the Latin based term "Collect" when referring to troparia and even kontakia.  Linguistically, this makes perfect sense, although I personally like the use of the old words.

[Cowboy]

I guess I could have been clearer in my previous post. How would one translate the following terms, for example,into simple, understandable English?

--Troparian
--Kontakion
--Theotokos
--Theotokion
--Anaphora
--Hypokoe
--Panahida
--Antiphon

Cowboy

[Schultz]

I guess I could have been clearer in my previous post. How would one translate the following terms, for example,into simple, understandable English?

I'll take a shot at this, but others will probably have better translations.

--Troparian

Daily Collect

--Kontakion

Poetic Collect

--Theotokos

"Birth-giver" of God, but I prefer the more elegant Mother of God

--Theotokion

Marian hymn

--Anaphora

Eucharistic prayer; Canon of the Mass

--Hypokoe

Special Matins hymn

-Panahida

Memorial service (For the dead)

--Antiphon

This is a musical term that's probably best left untranslated, but as originally done, one can think of it as a "Call and Answer" type hymn one finds in many (American) Southern churches and in Scotland.

Again, these are my interpretations of these particular words in as plain English as I can get.

[Fr. George]

--Troparian 

If you mean "Troparion" as "the one hymn for the saint of the day that we sing at the Small Entrance," then the proper term is "Apolytikion" which is translated "dismissal hymn."  Troparion is a generic term for a hymn belonging to a set.

--Kontakion 

I like Shultz's "Poetic Collect" - the Kontakion is a poetic stanza in praise of the Saint or Feastday.

--Theotokos 

See Shultz's reply.

--Theotokion 

Theotokion is a very common name for a hymn, as nearly every hymn directed to the Theotokos is called a "Theotokion."

--Anaphora 

"The Offering" - this is the part of the Liturgy beginning with "Let us give thanks unto the Lord" and ending with "And grant that with one voice and one heart...." that is the Eucharistic prayer.

--Hypokoe 

In modern Greek it means obedience, but in the old Greek it essentially means "listen up!"  It is a direction to listen closely, and the stanza that follows is a short paragraph about the feast.  Normally only great feasts and Resurrectional Sundays have an Hypakoe, and they're normally read (except the one for Pascha).

--Panahida 

I will defer to Shultz, since we don't use that term in Greek.

--Antiphon 

Shultz's is the best answer.

[Cassiel]

I think my question is sort of on the subject: which of these are meant to be sung by the entire congregation, and which are meant to be sung by only the reader?  I go to matins many mornings and there are only a few of us there (I am a catechumen so a lot of this is new to me, btw), and our presiding priest assigns us each something - theotokia, troparia to the saint of the day, or the third one (ummm...the other day it was the holy cross, and a couple days later it was just more troparia to the same saint because it was the Hierarch Gregory).  Then there are ones we all sing together, but I am not always sure I'm supposed to be singing (the irmos, for instance).  I just sing, mostly, and I figure he'll tell me if I'm not supposed to be singing. 

[Fr. George]

I think my question is sort of on the subject: which of these are meant to be sung by the entire congregation, and which are meant to be sung by only the reader?  I go to matins many mornings and there are only a few of us there (I am a catechumen so a lot of this is new to me, btw), and our presiding priest assigns us each something - theotokia, troparia to the saint of the day, or the third one (ummm...the other day it was the holy cross, and a couple days later it was just more troparia to the same saint because it was the Hierarch Gregory).  Then there are ones we all sing together, but I am not always sure I'm supposed to be singing (the irmos, for instance).  I just sing, mostly, and I figure he'll tell me if I'm not supposed to be singing. 

Hymns that follow a pattern or that are widely used are good to be sung congregationally.  This would include the Apolytikia and their accompanying Theotokia, the Troparia that follow "Lord, I Have Cried" (the Vesperal Stichera) and "Let Everything That Breathes Praise the Lord" (the Matins Stichera), the Kathismata of matins, the common canons (and the Katavasies), the Aposticha of Vespers (and of Matins, if you actually do them - most don't), and all the hymns of Liturgy.

What shouldn't be chanted?  Well, everything should at least be sung to oneself.  But what shouldn't be "belted out" would mainly be the "unique" hymns (Idiomela), which include the Glory hymns of Vespers and Matins, the Liti hymns, hymns that replace common hymns (like the Cherubic hymn or Communion hymn) for major feasts.

Addendum - Something that many people forget is that even when singing congregationally, one must remember that they are not leading the singing from their seats - so they shouldn't be singing at full blast into their neighbor's ears.  The Cantor / Choir are leading, and they should indeed be chanting loudly so as to lead.  If people in the pews chant as if they are leading, then the other folks around them will be less able to hear the Cantor / Choir and thus less able to tell if the person next to them is chanting correctly.  There are many scriptural references to the differentiation of roles and talents, and we must remember that.

[Cassiel]

Thanks! 

[Cowboy]

Hi Cleveland,

How about our Cav's? I know the definitions of the words which I listed in an earlier post. What I am looking for are short English translations for each. For example, could Anaphora be translated as "The Offering"? Could Troparian be translated as "Theme For Today" or "Theme of the Feast" or Theme for the Saint"? The arguments in our church committee have to do with the actual "best" translations. Thanks in advance for your help.

Cowboy

[Fr. George]

Hi Cleveland,

How about our Cav's?

How about them indeed!  It's been great watching close games and highlights, and it's definitely great to see them on a roll...

I know the definitions of the words which I listed in an earlier post. What I am looking for are short English translations for each. For example, could Anaphora be translated as "The Offering"? Could Troparian be translated as "Theme For Today" or "Theme of the Feast" or Theme for the Saint"? The arguments in our church committee have to do with the actual "best" translations. Thanks in advance for your help. 

Anaphora could definitely be translated as "The Offering."  If when you use Troparion you mean the Apolytikion, then you could call it the "General Hymn for the Saint." 

[Apostolos]

Panahida
I will defer to Shultz, since we don't use that term in Greek.
Shultz's is the best answer.

Yes we do, but as Παννυχίς/Παννυχίδος, the all-night service (from παν+νυξ-->the whole night)...it's the more ancient name of Ολονυκτία. Pannychis was an all-night feast in the Eleusinian mysteries (vigil?)

[Fr. George]

Yes we do, but as Παννυχίς/Παννυχίδος, the all-night service (from παν+νυξ-->the whole night)...it's the more ancient name of Ολονυκτία. Pannychis was an all-night feast in the Eleusinian mysteries (vigil?)

Except I don't think that's how the Russian-tradition uses the term.  I have Professor Fondoulis' text of the Παννυχίς in my office, and have trusted it when putting together all-night vigils when I was back at school.

[Anastasios]

--Theotokos

"Birth-giver" of God, but I prefer the more elegant Mother of God

I don't agree with translating Theotokos as Mother of God because we have in Greek liturgical texts Miter Theou as opposed to Theotokos in some hymns. I'd say leave Theotokos in Greek or translate it Godbearer.

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