Author Topic: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop  (Read 3921 times)

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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« on: January 16, 2008, 09:33:46 PM »

I remember reading about this priest a few years back.  Today, our local paper ran a follow-up article on him and his show-down with his bishop.

"The Rev. Marek Bozek has faced censure, excommunication and shunning since he took the pulpit at a Polish parish in St. Louis.  Now he faces losing his status as a priest in the Roman Catholic Church."

Full article  here .
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 10:04:00 PM »
Leading his flock into schism and heresy! It's about time for this priest to be deposed. God bless His Eminence Archbishop Burke for once again showing his firm and pastoral episcopal backbone.

Offline GiC

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 10:29:34 PM »
"A time comes in your life ... when you just realize that you have to stand for what is right," explained Bozek.

I'm sure the Vatican will crucify him for it, as they have done to many others before him, but he seems to be a honourable and principled man.
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Offline AMM

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 10:32:35 PM »
St. Stan's probably would have had their parish suppressed, sold and the proceeds used for various other purposes.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 01:34:40 PM by AMM »

Offline FrChris

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 10:36:16 PM »
I actually side with the RCC (not the Reformed Catholic Church; but instead the more 'usual' meaning) after I read this paragraph summarizing what Fr Marek has done:

Quote
Those ways have included moving to St. Stan's without the permission of Springfield's Bishop John Leibrecht or St. Louis' Archbishop Raymond Burke; continuing to serve the traditionally Polish church when ordered to stop; and, most recently, participating in the ordination of two women as Roman Catholic Women priests in November.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 10:46:56 PM »
Since I'm not Roman Catholic, I feel that I should say absolutely nothing.  But, would any Orthodox jurisdiction in this country or any other place on earth tolerate such a move of open defiance and dissent against not only a canonical bishop but church canon law and doctrine?  I would think not.

The Catholic Church, it seems, has gone to great lengths NOT to laicize or defrock so many priests whose behaviors are reprehensible and contrary to its own rules.  Why? 

I just find it very interesting that the RC will go to great lengths to not defrock those priests who are molesting children but will bring the hammer down on those who are ordaining women or practicing "liberation theology." 
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Offline AMM

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 10:51:07 PM »
The real issue is the property.  Mr. Bozek clearly has stepped way out of bounds too though.  Looks like losers on both sides.  Like I said, what a waste.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2008, 11:33:17 PM »
I actually side with the RCC (not the Reformed Catholic Church; but instead the more 'usual' meaning) after I read this paragraph summarizing what Fr Marek has done:

This is exactly what jumped out at me Fr. Chris.  Look, Fr. Marek is trying to do what he thinks is best for his congregation and that is honourable.  But at the same time, he's disobeying his bishop.  He has to make a decision as to whether or not he wants to remain Roman Catholic or not.  He knows his actions are beyond the Vatican pale, and that he is in serious violation of RC canon law and this is not honourable.  As an EO, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's obvious that he should be defrocked.  At any rate, regardless of what I think, he probably will be.

To me, since he and his flock obviously do not care what the Vatican thinks, this looks like a great opportunity to invite them into Holy Orthodoxy.
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Offline AMM

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 12:04:29 AM »
One would assume they would be looking to the PNCC.

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 12:18:42 AM »
One would assume they would be looking to the PNCC.

I'm not so sure about that with Fr. Marek's view on ordaining women.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 01:32:25 AM »
I'm not so sure about that with Fr. Marek's view on ordaining women.

The only problem I have with it is that he's not a Bishop...but that's aniother thread....
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Offline EmperorConstantine

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2008, 02:56:19 AM »
Quote
Those ways have included moving to St. Stan's without the permission of Springfield's Bishop John Leibrecht or St. Louis' Archbishop Raymond Burke;
Strike one!

Quote
continuing to serve the traditionally Polish church when ordered to stop;
Strike two!

Quote
and, most recently, participating in the ordination of two women as Roman Catholic Women priests in November.
Strike three, you're out!



Sorry folks, I couldn't resist. :-[

Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 03:24:12 AM »
When this brouhaha began, I wondered whether the parish would look to the PNCC, and how that would fly. The PNCC and the Roman Catholic Church have done a lot of fence-mending in recent times and I rather suspected the status of that dialogue might give the PNCC pause about becoming involved. However, I think the priest involved has solved any such dilemna for the PNCC. They parted company with Utrecht over the issue of female ordination, as well as others - but that was the deal-breaker; wherever the gentleman is going to go with his frock in hand, it won't be to the PNCC.

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Offline Hesychios

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2008, 05:41:32 PM »
I have some sympathy for the congregation, with reservations.

I have next to none for the priest because of his attraction to the fringe of Traditional Apostolic Christianity. I suppose that may be why they were able to attract him to their cause, however they are now being drawn in toward his liberal positions.

If they truly have 500 families, I would be surprised (of course, strong modern RC parishes can easily have more than 2000 families, but as I understand it this parish had been in serious inner city decline). I would think the parish rolls are inflated by names that have not been present for years. But it seems like the congregation has been attracting at least some disaffected Roman Catholics from the St Louis area so I suppose it is possible.

I am surprised the neither the SSPX nor the PNCC have been involved, I wonder if the Trustees even tried to contact either group.

By fighting in this way to keep the building open and functioning they have opened themselves up to the possibility of being taught strange and even heretical ideas through a young liberal priest.

That the bishop may have planned to close the parish I do not doubt, it might have been considered necessary due to the need to carefully allocate increasingly precious resources. It is a rarity these days to see a Roman Catholic parish community in the USA that still possesses title to the property, and this may actually be the only one. If the title had been clearly in the hands of the bishop we would have seen an end to this squabble long, long ago and forgotten it by now.

When the bishop was assigning priests and the diocese subsidizing a school it could be reasonably argued that a declining parish was squandering the resources of the greater diocese, but not so anymore... actually the parish costs the Archdiocese nothing now; the parish funds the priest, all of it's own repairs and incidental costs.

I think all schism is tragic, but this one seems particularly unnecessary. It looks to have more to due with brick, mortar, accessories and accoutrements (in other words, physical things that will not endure) than spiritual concerns.  Both parties have to take responsibilty for this nonsense.

Michael
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Offline AMM

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2008, 06:01:20 PM »
Ironically it appears the parish was established the way it was to keep people from going to the PNCC.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-123085138.html

Offline Fuerza

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 03:56:21 PM »
Since I'm not Roman Catholic, I feel that I should say absolutely nothing.  But, would any Orthodox jurisdiction in this country or any other place on earth tolerate such a move of open defiance and dissent against not only a canonical bishop but church canon law and doctrine?  I would think not.

The Catholic Church, it seems, has gone to great lengths NOT to laicize or defrock so many priests whose behaviors are reprehensible and contrary to its own rules.  Why? 

I just find it very interesting that the RC will go to great lengths to not defrock those priests who are molesting children but will bring the hammer down on those who are ordaining women or practicing "liberation theology." 

With a handful of exceptions (which is still a hanful too many) I don't think that most Catholic bishops went "to great lengths to not defrock those priests". A lot of people tried to jump on the money train by falsely accusing priests, figuring that it would be easy to win. In most cases I would say that it was necessary to defer punishment until the guilt of an individual priest could be proven. In those cases where the priest was proven guilty, many were in fact defrocked. The article itself mentions, at least in passing, that priests were laicized for sexual abuse.

From the article:

If they do, Bozek is likely to be the first priest involuntarily laicized for any reason other than sexually abusing children. He explained that before the recent clergy sex abuse scandal in the church, laicization was almost exclusively performed when a priest requested it, generally because he wanted to get married.

Offline GiC

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 09:49:50 PM »
With a handful of exceptions (which is still a hanful too many) I don't think that most Catholic bishops went "to great lengths to not defrock those priests". A lot of people tried to jump on the money train by falsely accusing priests, figuring that it would be easy to win. In most cases I would say that it was necessary to defer punishment until the guilt of an individual priest could be proven. In those cases where the priest was proven guilty, many were in fact defrocked. The article itself mentions, at least in passing, that priests were laicized for sexual abuse.

From the article:

If they do, Bozek is likely to be the first priest involuntarily laicized for any reason other than sexually abusing children. He explained that before the recent clergy sex abuse scandal in the church, laicization was almost exclusively performed when a priest requested it, generally because he wanted to get married.

But the fact still remains that only in the Roman Catholic Church is a person (e.g. priest) getting married a bigger problem than were he to simply molest a child. You will know them by their fruits...
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Offline Fuerza

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2008, 09:36:03 AM »
But the fact still remains that only in the Roman Catholic Church is a person (e.g. priest) getting married a bigger problem than were he to simply molest a child. You will know them by their fruits...

The issue in question is not a priest getting married. It's a priest who is openly defying his bishop as well as taking part in female ordinations. The reason that it seems like a bigger deal than child abuse is that the Church has immediate jurisdiction in this area and has all the authority to make the necessary judgements itself. In the case of child abuse, the Church has to rely on civil authorities to prove guilt before it can make a decision on the appropriate ecclesiastical punishment. Until a priest is proven guilty of a state crime, all the Church can do is remove him from public ministry.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 09:36:45 AM by Fuerza »

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2008, 02:10:37 PM »
I just find it very interesting that the RC will go to great lengths to not defrock those priests who are molesting children but will bring the hammer down on those who are ordaining women or practicing "liberation theology." 

I would beg to differ on that. Numerous molesting priests have been defrocked.

Ultimately, though, public heretic priests are perhaps an even greater danger to the faith, I think, than immoral ones.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 02:13:07 PM »
To me, since he and his flock obviously do not care what the Vatican thinks, this looks like a great opportunity to invite them into Holy Orthodoxy.

I'm not sure you want to take on a flock of such progressives. They fit more, I think, in the Old Catholic churches. Father can participate in all the women's ordinations he wants there.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 02:24:18 PM »
I'm not sure you want to take on a flock of such progressives. They fit more, I think, in the Old Catholic churches. Father can participate in all the women's ordinations he wants there.
In their present outlook, no, they wouldn't fit in with an Orthodox view.  However, their situation has become such that they're probably compromising much much more than they're anger is willing to let them step back and see.  It seems that the situation as been aggravated to such an extent that perhaps their pride has forced them into a corner to where they see no other alternatives; they either pledge allegiance to their priest or they pledge allegiance to the Pope.  Sometimes we can become so hyper-focused that our ability to see alternatives is compromised which in turn creates greater opportunity for Satan.
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Polish-American Roman Catholic priest defies bishop
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 04:25:10 PM »
Ultimately, though, public heretic priests are perhaps an even greater danger to the faith, I think, than immoral ones.

If you let pederast clergy keep raping and molesting your children, you're eventually not going to have a flock at all, much less one to protect from heretic clergy.
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