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Author Topic: Need help responding to a Rastafarian about Orthodoxy  (Read 13197 times) Average Rating: 0
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_Seraphim_
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« on: January 15, 2008, 12:19:00 AM »

In response to an online comment I made about Bob Marley and Haile Selassie both being Orthodox Christians, I recently received the following email from a Rastafarian:


"Bredrin, It seems you try to fight Rastafari alot ! I think a better way is to just do the works of Jah and leave all judgment to Jah. Also one must respect that Rastas have studied all Haile Selassie words , know his history and even his "train speech" and still we know he is god.We have our reasons .I also remind you most Rastas came from Christian homes and are well aware of the Bible ,its teachings and Christanity at large . Ive been seeing Christians disturbed by Rasta and try to convert Rasta back for many , many years , but clearly the Rasta carries the true soul of the son of man in this time! The true Chrisrian.God in flesh !So many ghetto youth have turned from violence and crime,abortion and bad food ,and rude ways and langauge due to Rasta, its a shame on religous zealots , pharisees n scribes who try to fight Rasta down.If you dont believe Haile Selassie is god thats your right , but quit slandering Ini and our family and our GOD.and unite as Jah ordained us to do !Blessed love Ras Mikey"


Keeping in mind that the synergy of a community is always stronger than any individual, I decided to post this email here before I respond.  Perhaps someone (especially any Ethiopians here) could help give some insight as how to respond in the most informative and Orthodox way.

Thanks all in advance
God bless
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 12:25:57 AM »

Actually, we have a person here who is Orthodox that was Rastafarian, but I will wait for the poster to identify him or herself here, or possibly PM you!
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 12:31:37 AM »

Have you seen the article by Norman Reddington?  It is from an Orthodox perspective.  There are many copies of it on the Web but here is the original.  Others tend to be altered.


A SKETCH OF RASTAFARI HISTORY
by Norman Hugh Redington (1995)

http://www.voskrese.info/spl/rasta-hist.html

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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 04:53:59 PM »

Dear Seraphim,
His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie himself established an Ethiopian Orthodox mission to Rastafarians.  It is still very active.  Let's say you were a recently chrismated Serbian Orthodox layman, do you not think it would be presumptous and overstepping your bounds to act apart from the Ethiopian Orthodox and Solmonid Imperial mission to Rastafarians?  Maybe even arrogant?  Given your understanding of the Rastafarian movement and Ethiopian continental history do you think that this would be welcome and productive in that community?  In my opinion, these are all things one must consider before letting the tongue loose.
I suggest background research, and gain knowledge in the context of prayer.
Glory to Lord Jesus Christ
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 03:17:47 AM »

Actually, we have a person here who is Orthodox that was Rastafarian, but I will wait for the poster to identify him or herself here, or possibly PM you!

I hope they do... any help is appreciated.
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 03:19:53 AM »

Have you seen the article by Norman Reddington?  It is from an Orthodox perspective.

No, I have not seen this before.  Thank you so much for sharing.  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 03:34:33 AM »

Let's say you were a… Serbian Orthodox layman...

I'd say that a simple glance at my profile would make that pretty clear.

...do you not think it would be presumptous and overstepping your bounds to act apart from the Ethiopian Orthodox and Solmonid Imperial mission to Rastafarians?  Maybe even arrogant?

I simply posted on some YouTube Bob Marley videos that both he and emperor Haile Selassie were Orthodox Christians.  That is all.  Do you not think it would be presumptuous and overstepping your bounds to accuse me of disrespecting Ethiopian Orthodoxy because I don’t happen to be an authoritative expert on the topic of Rastafarianism?… maybe even arrogant?

I suggest background research...

…which is exactly why I posted here.  I wanted to further my knowledge of the situation, I never said I was completely clueless.  By the way, posts like your last one are anything but helpful.
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 12:36:49 AM »

I simply posted on some YouTube Bob Marley videos that both he and emperor Haile Selassie were Orthodox Christians.  That is all.  Do you not think it would be presumptuous and overstepping your bounds to accuse me of disrespecting Ethiopian Orthodoxy because I don’t happen to be an authoritative expert on the topic of Rastafarianism?… maybe even arrogant?
Yes and yes
Quote
I wanted to further my knowledge of the situation
A good source for information is the book "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church" by Archbishop Yesehaq.  This book has some detailed information about the orthodox mission in Jamaica and the carribean coming from the firsthand source.  He was the bishop sent by HIM Haile Selassie I to teach orthodoxy to Rastafarians.  He also baptised Bob Marley.  There are interviews with him online that you may also find informative if you search.  In my opinion we can learn much from the knowledge and loving attitude of this hierarch. 

It would be difficult to find a Rasta that's not aware of the orthodoxy of HIM and Bob Marley.  Before there was any contact with orthodoxy, the Rasta movement by-and-large rejected Christianity on the grounds that they tied it in with the culture of western europe that enslaved them as a people.  Consequently, most are usually turned off by polemics towards them from a Christian perspective because they associate it with oppression.  While there are more open-minded attitudes towards Ethiopian Orthodoxy, there is plenty of suspicion, especially in light of modern ecumenicism with the west in today's Orthodox Church.  Thousands of Rastafarians that were baptised orthodox renounced the church when they saw that the clergy was promoting unity with local Roman Catholic and Protestant church leaders in Jamaica.  Peter Tosh, the guitarist for the Wailers, is an example of one who cursed the church after conversion.  Nevertheless he was given an orthodox funeral at the request of his family.   

Keep in mind that Rasta arose from extremely difficult circumstances - terrible poverty, gang crime, violence, suffering.  In these circumstances if you were a collaborator with the oppresor, it could be a life or death matter.  It has been said that Bob was very low key about his faith because there were related death threats.

Another thing to consider is the fact is that there are so many different viewpoints within "Rasta".  It makes it hard to formally respond to a "Rasta" since there is no real definition of Rasta thought.  Most do not consider Rasta "religion", and claim knowledge that Haile Selassie is God is innate in the self of the elect.  It is described as an awakening within the consciousness.  From my point of view, if one meets a devout orthodox christian and perceives divinity, then it makes sense to look into the orthodoxy of the person for an explanation.  Therein deification.  This is one way orthodoxy differs from common western christian approaches that Rasta avoid.  It also explains why a person may be drawn to the emperor and mistake his identity with God. 

The emperor was a very prayerful man.  Clearly he was very influenced by his faith in the way he governed and related to other nations as extraordinary advocate for the people in diaspora.  This is a redemptive vision for victims of a criminal legacy.  There are many speeches that are available online, be sure to trace sources.

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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 01:00:33 AM »

A good source for information is the book "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church" by Archbishop Yesehaq.  This book has some detailed information about the orthodox mission in Jamaica and the carribean coming from the firsthand source. 
*
Archbishop Yesehaq, *The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church* (available from Holy Trinity Cathedral,140-142 W. 176th St, Bronx NY 10451)

But whether the book is still sold at this cathedral?
http://www.voskrese.info/spl/rasta-hist.html


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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 01:01:21 AM »

A good source for information is the book "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church" by Archbishop Yesehaq. 

Thank you.  I will certainly try to get a copy. 
Your insightful comments are appreciated.
There is certainly much learning to be done.

God bless
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 02:19:36 PM »

Not really wishing to comment on the spiritual journey of Berhane Selassie (Bob Marley) or the Abuna (May his memory be eternal!) I will tell you from first hand experience that the only viable option is to pray for them. Barring that, we should also support any ongoing efforts for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church (or any Orthodox jurisdiction) to grow in the Caribbean (I know of at least one brother who converted to Orthodoxy and was received but attends a Protestant church as there is no Orthodox on his island).

There is no way to respond in anyway that any Rastafarian will accept and receive the One True Church of Christ.

In Christ
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 02:22:46 PM »

*
Archbishop Yesehaq, *The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church* (available from Holy Trinity Cathedral,140-142 W. 176th St, Bronx NY 10451)

But whether the book is still sold at this cathedral?
http://www.voskrese.info/spl/rasta-hist.html




This book is no longer in print.

Two copies were sold recently for about 5 times the selling price. I have one copy myself.

You may check with the Schomberg Center 125th Street NY NY. The Museum has a very substantial collection of Ethiopian Orthodox Church material specifically regardingh the church in the west. The book store was an authorized retailer of the book and may still have some copies or know how to get a copy. Try Ebay used books also.

It is a very good book for a novice on the subject of the Ethiopian Church in the West. I can tell you that it does not really make a hard stand regarding the Rasta and the Ethiopian Church; but does however deal with the subject.

Many Rastas know that The Ethiopian Church is Christian and not Rastafarian at all and they stay away. We have a lot of former Rastas that find Christ in the Ethiopian Church. They speak out agianst the Rasta way and promote true Orthodoxy among the Rasta community.They are very good to have among us.
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 04:00:21 PM »


Many Rastas know that The Ethiopian Church is Christian and not Rastafarian at all and they stay away. We have a lot of former Rastas that find Christ in the Ethiopian Church. They speak out agianst the Rasta way and promote true Orthodoxy among the Rasta community.

When you say "they speak out against the Rasta way", could you provide examples of which criticisms against the Rasta way are most commonly made?
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 11:20:34 PM »

Worshipping a mortal man as God, subjugating women, acknowledging false prophets, false doctrine, failing to recognize the authority of the Church....
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 04:25:06 AM »

When i was in Greece i got into a conversation with an Ethiopian tourist who told me the only reason Rastas believe Haile Selassie was a deity is because of rain. Jamaica was going thru a severe drought and on the day he arrived to visit the island it just happened to finally rain on that day.

Not sure if its true but she was adamant about it and while she loved reggae, she considered Rastas to not be so bright.
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 03:06:21 PM »

When you say "they speak out against the Rasta way", could you provide examples of which criticisms against the Rasta way are most commonly made?

You should know this answer ??

The converted rastafarians speak the gosple of Christ and the only real salvation which is through Him to the uncoverted.

That is all....No criticising or anything like that.

Where I am in the world this is working well.

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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 03:11:30 PM »

When i was in Greece i got into a conversation with an Ethiopian tourist who told me the only reason Rastas believe Haile Selassie was a deity is because of rain. Jamaica was going thru a severe drought and on the day he arrived to visit the island it just happened to finally rain on that day.

Not sure if its true but she was adamant about it and while she loved reggae, she considered Rastas to not be so bright.

She is not so bright either; and neither am I.

All Glory to Christ our Savior...Amen.

The story is the reverse..The rain stopped once the Plane touched down on the tarmak.

It is true according to eye witnesses from the international media.

However; this is not what started the movement.
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 03:33:41 PM »

if Haile Selassie was indeed who they claim him to be... how is it possible he has died? If he indeed has not died, why has he not done anything since his "dissappearance"?
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 08:02:21 PM »

if Haile Selassie was indeed who they claim him to be... how is it possible he has died? If he indeed has not died, why has he not done anything since his "dissappearance"?

How not to convert a Rastafarian.....don't you have some experience with this my friend??
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 08:43:43 PM »

How not to convert a Rastafarian.....don't you have some experience with this my friend??

I converted you, didnt I!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Wink Wink Wink
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2008, 08:53:32 PM »

I converted you, didnt I!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Wink Wink Wink

LOL! Sure, okay, take credit.
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2008, 10:14:14 PM »

Dear Seraphim,

Don't worry. This response is typical from Rastafarians and anti-colonial based, religious cults.  This Rastafarian is only defending his cult according to his own understanding and knowledge, that is why he may seem a little angered.

The problem is the acceptance of Christianity among some of those who were oppressed by so-called Christians.  You see, when the Africans were enslaved and brought to this hemisphere, it was done so primarily by European [and sadly, even Eastern] Christians.  It is difficult for many African-Caribbeans, African-(North&South)Americans to accept a religion from those who enslaved, raped and stripped their history from them (this is a different subject, but relative).

You are correct that Bob Marley was an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian.  He was baptized very close to his death, but before that, he advocated the EOTC among Rastafarians.  Although a high-population of Rastafarians are in Jamaica and the West Indies (not saying that the West Indies are mostly populated with Rastafarians, as many believe), Rastafarians are not limited to those regions.

Rastafarianism was founded in 1930 after the coronation of Ras Tafari Mekonnen (Haile Selassie I).  When an African-Carribbean (not a dreadlock) who was in England at the time heard that Ras Tafari (pronounced: te-fe-ree) was crowned King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Lion of the Tribe of Judah, King of Zion (and so forth); he related these titles with those in the Holy Bible (i.e. Revelation 5:5, etc). 

Unfortunately, he was not aware and/or did not make others aware, that all of the Christian kings (or Solomonic kings) of Ethiopia since the anointing of Menelik 1st received these titles.  In this case, Ras Tafari used his baptismal name (Haile Selassie: Holy Trinity is my Power) as his throne name. 

There are a lot of other legends that were created by Rastafarians to support Biblical evidence that the late King was the Second Advent of Jesus Christ (this is what MOST Rastafarians believe).  If you object to one of the Rastafarian doctrines, the answer that you received is typical.  Some answers may seem specific, like, "If he is God, why did he deny his divinity?" [Haile Selassie was asked this in the late 60's, because of the cult, expressed his sadness and of course denied that he was far from even a saint].

The typical answer is, "Just like Jesus in the Gospel! He was being humble when He denied his divinity in public, but his children know him!"

Haile Selassie was in a car accident while in exile in Bath, England and he broke his leg.  When you inquire about this, because our Lord Jesus Christ did not suffer broken bones, another reply like this may be said, "This is his second advent!"

"What about the Emperor's children?"  They may say, "They are angels (or sons of God!"

Most Rastafarians really don't know the speeches or real life of HIM Haile Selassie I, if they did, they would know that His Majesty was a devoted Christian and even advocated many things that they (the Rastafarians) do not advocate.

You may see where I'm getting.  If you would like to speak with this or that Rastafarian, the same principles may be applied for other religions or cults.  You have to know their doctrine and perspectives.  It is of course, always advised to pray and to study the Bible.

I hope that this helped a little. 

HaileAmanuel
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2008, 12:46:01 AM »

That sounds good.....until you hit the utter paranoia of the Establishment that many Rastas possess, not to mention a violent Romophobia that they extend to the Eastern Churches.

Your best conversion tool (if any), is to find a picture of the Coronation of the Emperor where as I recall he is kneeling and kissing the hand of the Abuna.
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2008, 02:18:45 AM »

I hope that this helped a little. 

Much more than a little.  Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2008, 02:19:31 AM »

Your best conversion tool (if any), is to find a picture of the Coronation of the Emperor where as I recall he is kneeling and kissing the hand of the Abuna.

If anyone finds a good one please be sure to post it here.
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2008, 05:16:48 PM »

...Selam (Peace...)...

'Your best conversion tool (if any), is to find a picture of the Coronation of the Emperor where as I recall he is kneeling and kissing the hand of the Abuna.'

I don't want to drag this out, especially quote-for-quote, but even when you show them this picture, they will say that their 'god' is showing humility, as  our Lord [Glory be unto Hime forever and ever!] did when He went to St. John the Baptist. 

The true tool is prayer...even when you use Scripture to prove our Lord Jesus Christ has not returned as Haile Selassie I, the Rastafarians will revert to something else. 

I think that filling their 'gap(s)' is what is key. For example, by deifying someone, that means they are looking for a higher-power, they recognize a prime-mover. They also accept incarnation, because they admit that their 'god' was born from a woman, who had a mother.  They use Bible verses and typically believe in the Ten Commandments and spiritual laws. 

As I said before, the number one gripe of most Rastafarians is accepting Christianity from a Eurocentric point-of-view.  Marcus Garvey (who most Rastafarians accept) said, "Every human being, from the respective races or ethnic background, should envision God is his or her own eyes...the Chinese should see God as Chinese, the Indian should see God as Indian, the European should see God as European and the African should see God as African..."

In the slave-trade and the process of slavery (namely, the Trans-Atlantic African Slave Trade), Africans and their descendants were taught throughout the generations that all Biblical characters were Anglo and Africa was taken out of the Biblical scene.  It was even taught that Egyptians and Ethiopians were Anglo.   So, a sense of pride was totally lost and even taken away.  This is why you may hear many Rastafarians preaching about Ethiopia and 'No White Jesus!'

It has become an extreme type of movement against what they heard and what they were taught growing up.  Most West Indian and Caribbean countries are predominantly Roman Catholic, Anglican, Seventh-Day Adventist and so forth.

I believe that this holds true for many African-American/Caribbean(s) also turning to Islam.  It is a very serious matter, because even within these communities, there are splits, because they find that Eastern European and Arab Muslims don't accept them (I speak in regard to numerous statements uttered by the Nation of Islam).

As an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian, I feel that our Church has a special mission toward African-North/South Americans and African Caribbeans.  I don't believe this because of separatism, but there is typically a greater sense of identification with the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church. 

The very word 'Nubia' alone attracts the said communities, but because of Islamic conquests in Sudan, this ancient Church (of Nubia) was deactivated.  Our Coptic fathers are a tremendous help, but I think that the 'Black' communities are typically attracted to Ethiopia, as they feel that it is banner of freedom, ancient civilization, Her Hebraic and Christian Faith and of course Her culture...

Please pray and I am happy to hear such warm concern for the conversion of one soul...this is what our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ and our saintly fathers have taught us, and this is how the Holy Spirit works within us.

Peace to all,

HaileAmanuel
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2008, 03:57:49 AM »

...Selam (Peace...)...

'Your best conversion tool (if any), is to find a picture of the Coronation of the Emperor where as I recall he is kneeling and kissing the hand of the Abuna.'

I don't want to drag this out, especially quote-for-quote, but even when you show them this picture, they will say that their 'god' is showing humility, as  our Lord [Glory be unto Hime forever and ever!] did when He went to St. John the Baptist. 

The true tool is prayer...even when you use Scripture to prove our Lord Jesus Christ has not returned as Haile Selassie I, the Rastafarians will revert to something else. 

I think that filling their 'gap(s)' is what is key. For example, by deifying someone, that means they are looking for a higher-power, they recognize a prime-mover. They also accept incarnation, because they admit that their 'god' was born from a woman, who had a mother.  They use Bible verses and typically believe in the Ten Commandments and spiritual laws. 

As I said before, the number one gripe of most Rastafarians is accepting Christianity from a Eurocentric point-of-view.  Marcus Garvey (who most Rastafarians accept) said, "Every human being, from the respective races or ethnic background, should envision God is his or her own eyes...the Chinese should see God as Chinese, the Indian should see God as Indian, the European should see God as European and the African should see God as African..."

In the slave-trade and the process of slavery (namely, the Trans-Atlantic African Slave Trade), Africans and their descendants were taught throughout the generations that all Biblical characters were Anglo and Africa was taken out of the Biblical scene.  It was even taught that Egyptians and Ethiopians were Anglo.   So, a sense of pride was totally lost and even taken away.  This is why you may hear many Rastafarians preaching about Ethiopia and 'No White Jesus!'

It has become an extreme type of movement against what they heard and what they were taught growing up.  Most West Indian and Caribbean countries are predominantly Roman Catholic, Anglican, Seventh-Day Adventist and so forth.

I believe that this holds true for many African-American/Caribbean(s) also turning to Islam.  It is a very serious matter, because even within these communities, there are splits, because they find that Eastern European and Arab Muslims don't accept them (I speak in regard to numerous statements uttered by the Nation of Islam).

As an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian, I feel that our Church has a special mission toward African-North/South Americans and African Caribbeans.  I don't believe this because of separatism, but there is typically a greater sense of identification with the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church. 

The very word 'Nubia' alone attracts the said communities, but because of Islamic conquests in Sudan, this ancient Church (of Nubia) was deactivated.  Our Coptic fathers are a tremendous help, but I think that the 'Black' communities are typically attracted to Ethiopia, as they feel that it is banner of freedom, ancient civilization, Her Hebraic and Christian Faith and of course Her culture...

Please pray and I am happy to hear such warm concern for the conversion of one soul...this is what our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ and our saintly fathers have taught us, and this is how the Holy Spirit works within us.

Peace to all,

HaileAmanuel

I read (to the rasta) the passages in the old and new testament that indicate that "there will be a new heaven and new earth" as the result of the 2nd advent. And we all know that we are still in the era of the first advent since the Holy Church is still accepting sinners and that man is still lustful and carnal.

The Holy Church of the Second Advent will have NO sinners. The Holy Communion will be finished as well. There will bo no need for the Holy Qurban after the Second Advent since there is no more sin and no more death. But we are still doing all these things.

Most important is that in the Second Advent ALL mankind shall know Him as Lord and Savior. But this has not happened yet either.

Also the scripture indicates that "the same Jesus shall return to earth in like manner." Thus He will not be born again from the womb of a woman (WITHOUT THE SEED OF MAN) as in His first advent but shall come back as full grown descending down from the sky with all the host principalities and dominions. This has not happened yet either.

This is the Christian teaching of scripture. If they (the raste) deny these obvious and irrefutable points of the Bible than pray for them and leave them to the God who can grant death to the soul and the body (two deaths). Only Christ born form the Holy Virgin Mary (WITHOUT THE SEED OF MAN) can return in the second advent. All others who claim or are claimed to be the return of "Christ" are lies.

To say that a man born from a women with the seed of another human is God is absolute madness. It undermines the Holy Mysteries and indicates that God alone does NOT has ALL power. HIM Hiali Sellassie was born of common relations with the seed of man. This by itself destroys any chance or hope for him being God - in - man as Christ actually is.

Some people will not be saved.

That is the sad thing.

Many of such people are sitting in the Church right next to us.

If we are not careful it may be you or me along with the rastas.

Lod have mercy..Amen
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2008, 09:01:14 AM »

Does it at all bother him that H.I.M. the late Haile Selassie I went to Jamaica and told the Rastafarians that he is not God?
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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2008, 12:21:21 PM »

Does it at all bother him that H.I.M. the late Haile Selassie I went to Jamaica and told the Rastafarians that he is not God?

They will say that "God" is humble and will not know or say he is "God".....

Something like that.

Really sad..

Satan is a powerful occuser.

Lord have mercy on us....Amen
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« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2008, 12:25:13 PM »

Does it at all bother him that H.I.M. the late Haile Selassie I went to Jamaica and told the Rastafarians that he is not God?

Hahahahaha...
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« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2008, 10:17:22 AM »

Chrestos is risen
with great power and authority.
Chrestos bound satan.
Chrestos set adam free.Selam,peace.
From now on there will be peace and happiness!!

By reading your responces to the above topic,i man can truly say one love ,one heart ,lets get together and give thanks and praises to our LORD!! by bob berhane selassie,!!! rasta is a way of life practiced globally in 7 continents without a creed."and until the the philosophy which holds one race or church inferior and another superior is finally and permanently discredit and abandoned ,there will be no peace"by Haile selassie 1:.In Jerusalem,HOLY LAND , i n i (i and GOD)witness you scribes and pharisees fighting the only black presence in the holy land ,with valid rights for 3000 years of citizenship, due to union of queen makeda sheba and King Solomon"s off springs,humble ethiopians.why do you catholics .coptics,armenians,greeks and the rest of the pious christians fight the black people for their birthright and heritage?.Abuna yesehaq teaches us about this great jealousy that will not go unpunished.St Matthew 23 fullfills on you all.To discredit rastafarians who the King of Kings of the earth on royal davids throne accepted ,blessed and confirmed properly by his messenger angelic priest Abba Yesehaq,Who sacrificed for 42 years without a pay check is un christian.check yourselves before you begin to judge.the scars of slavery is healed by the advent of HIM haile selassie who teach true christianity to outcast slave children rejected in the caribbean ,who no greek ,armenian ,coptic,serbian etc orthodox did not run to heal our wounds,Thus Abba Yesehaq,is our SAINT,Haile Selassie IS our Saint and Marcus Garvey Is OUr Saints.GOD CAME IN THEIR Personality.HE in ME AND I IN HIM AS CHRIST TEACHES THRU THE ADVENT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.WAS the teaching of Haile selassie and Abba Yesehaq Of Man Or of  GOD?CHRIST SPOKE UNTO THE 7 CHURCHES.THE PUBLICANS (RASTAFARIANS)and harlots enter in the king dom of heaven before the scribes and pharisees.no one can intefere in the realms of GOD.WE try many times to rent your buildings for one day to worship in NY city and you denied us because of our appearance .Thus you KILLED our Abuna with Grief.HE ate macdonalds food  while you ate most pious dishes.we  raised money from the GHETTO to print his book ..Ethiopian Tewahido Church.it is available on amazon.com.read it. on abbayesehaq.com. website ,Did you attend his funeral?.thanks to the one armenian clergy in NY city for assisting us a few times when the false ethiopian political  patriarch POULAS(you are silent of this atrocity), illegally elected evicted us, in 1998 from the historical church purchased by our beloved emperor.This is a blackmans redemption.light as a feather and heavy as lead.Some of you made the true doctrine of our lord CHRIST of none effect!!THE orthodox church is gaining ground in Jamaica to s Africa ,thanks to JAHSUS CHRESTOS FOR the Mighty Angel Abba Yesehaq.HE is very alive and death has no part with this saint sent to BLACK PEOPLE you call racial epithet.!!NEGUS means KING in the language beaten out of us..AMHARIC..and GEEZ spoken in the kingdom of heaven,cited by st yared our liturgical composer in 5th century.The Ethiopians will continue to suffer until they say blessed is ras tefere ,Haileselassie who they crucified,a righteous man and accepted mengistu a modern day Barabbas.God will punish them ethiopians for their ungratefulness to their monarchy.Peace be unto you all.ras zacka

Edited for language--YtterbiumAnalyst
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2008, 12:06:30 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Ras Zacka!

I am afraid I don't understand your post very well.  That's probably because I don't have the proper background in the Ethiopian Church or in the Rastafarian movement.  It may be nice if you can clarify what your question is.  Are you Rastafarian?  Forgive me if I am not using the proper terminology.  As I said, I don't have any background in this, so I don't really understand your post too well.  As I said, you may want to simplify what you said, so people like myself can understand it better.  Thanks.   Smiley
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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2008, 12:48:23 PM »

what exactly did the copts, catholics, greeks, armenians, and serbs do (I don't recall any Copt publicly calling your people "racial epithet")?  What did the Ethiopian Church under HH Abune Paulos do?  Which Church are you from?

Do you believe Haille Sellassie was the reincarnated Christ?


Edited by Salpy for language quoted from earlier poster.
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« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2008, 03:05:12 PM »

I want to entertain the following views by people that may be at the root of this issue:

This poster needs our prayers to help him with the ills of 400 or more years of European slavery, disenfranchisement and degredation heaped onto African people. This experience although in the past has scortched the minds and souls of many African descent people who are scatterd across the world. We find that the caribean is a holistic and fertile area of the world that has maintained an open expresion among the former slaves of African descent of African pride, heritage and dignity. Center to this is Ethiopia.

Ethiopia is organic and natural to all black peoples of the earth as the "holy land" of the black race and as such this country and its relationship with its biblical past is heavely focused on. Which is at the root of this posters disgruntled words. he sights much about the former emperor and the political conditions that caused his deposition and the various governments that has spawned from that action; none of which has really moved the ethiopan people ahead or even sustained peace or hope.

The Church of Ethiopia in this age is (it is strongly believed) is the last vestige of hope that connects Ethiopia to her Holy and ancient past since the monarchy is still in exile and the government is secular. Thus the black world needs the Ethiopian Church for its lasting harmony with the biblical epic to give solice to the current condition of the black people. Thus we get the various groups that have emerged such as the Rastafarians and may other groups.

These groups as I only very slightly noted above have intentions that are in many respects valuable and redeeming to the cause of black unity, independence and love which can serve to engendre the black race and heal the wounds of a just people upon which peaceful coexistance in tandem with the brotherhood of mankind can be realised. This is in comparison to the current condition of black people in relation to the rest of the worlds peoples which is blighted to a large degree do to 400 years of subjection and almost 60 years (which leads us to today)of 'covert' subjection and denial by the "white world".

Much of this posters use of "n" words and so on I feel is linked to this issue.


........................................................

This is a difficult issue to word I must say.

The above view is not typical of black people in general and should not be considered my personal view but is however a broad emotion shared by many black people and is understood by many educated and not so edcuated Ethiopans today and has been for the last 60 or more years of modern Ethiopia.

The Church of Ethiopia has made a great stride in the west among the African diaspora over the last 50 odd years. The Church was established in the USA and the Caribean to address the major social and spiritual ills of 'her' people. I will add that the Syrian Church fathers and the Coptic Church fathers in the USA helped much with the cause of establishing the Ethiopian church to serve as a mission of healing and salvation to those who would not except Christ from "westerrn churches" or "denominations". Ethiopia is still working with Gods grace to continue the healing and provide for the salvation of all who are able and willing to accept. Much has been accompolished. Much is left to do.

We have alot more to do seeing the sad condition of this poster.

The poster can not recieve true peace without God in Jesus the Christ.

The poster must be contrite and humbled that Jesus the Christ died on the cross for his sins and mine.

Christ will not die twice since he lives eternal having rose from the dead on the third day. He is true God He live forever. Thus He need not be born of a second womb to return to man in His second coming.

How can Christ be born a second time if he is already alive?

The poster must find peace in the teachings of Christ which is in the Holy ancient Apostolic Orthodox Church of God.

May God guide this poster to know His truth.

PS;
I am very sorry to the poster for any short commings that Ethiopia may have. You are a person of great importance.

O'Lord forgive me my sins....

Selaam

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« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2008, 11:50:01 AM »

Ras Zacka,

Thanks for posting, but this is a non-polemical forum and facts should be related when conferring information. 

You mentioned that various denominations oppressed the Ethiopian Christian community in the Holy Land.  This is true, but please remember that these acts/crimes committed against the Ethiopians, were by individuals--who of course are human beings. 

Would it ever be fair in life to say that all Rastafarians or those who wear dreadlocks are all criminals?  Perhaps Rastafarians would say that those who committed any ill-acts toward another were not truly Rasta in their ways or mannerisms. 

How about the occasion when His Majesty Haile Selassie I visited New York on a state visit in the early 1970's and was greeted by H.E. Abune Yeshaq?  Let me familiarize the members of what transpired: His Eminence brought two of the Rastafarian brethren with him to greet the late Emperor and when they (the two brethren) laid eyes on the King, they began to rip-off the medals and ornaments from His Majesty's uniform!  They pulled His Majesty's hair-out!  It was a total embarassment to the Ethiopian Royal and Church community, because local and national media was present. It became an informal visit, because of the embarassment and His Majesty (and His party) could not attend any state affairs or travel about because of this incident.  The mayor at the time exploited the story and the visit became unofficial!

Now, do these Rastafarians represent all Rastas?  By the way, this story is the truth and it came to me from the very mouth of HE Abune Yeshaq, who received equal stress from the Ethiopian community and West Indian community alike.  Do you agree or disagree?

Recently, our Coptic and Ethiopian families, with the mediation of the Armenian Katholicos-Aram I, reconciled and re-established protocols to develop the more-than-thousand year old relationship.  We are children of St. Mark the Evangelist--you know that.

God grants His grace to whom He wills.  As a follower and defender of HE Abune Yeshaq, I don't think His Eminence would even dare to support the ideology that HIM Haile Selassie I and/or the Honorable Marcus Garvey were personalities of God. 

As an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian, I cannot agree that Ge'ez or any other language is the language of God's kingdom. St. Paul says that NO PERSON can imagine the bliss that will take place if he or she inherits the Kingdom of Heaven; so how can we compare an earthly language to the Heavenly?  The Seraphim can't stand to look at the reflection of God's throne...

St. Yared is actually a Sixth Century saint.

I have a high respect for His Majesty Haile Selassie I, but I would like to inform you that His Majesty purchased a building in Jerusalem, Holy Land and recently HIM's grandchildren allowed that building to be sold to foreigners.  Previously, it was the custom of the Ethiopian royalty to donate property to the EOTC in the Holy Land. 

It was also negotiations with the Greek Orthodox Patriarch that allowed Ethiopia to reclaim two Chapels in Golgotha (the Roof of Golgotha). 

Mengistu no longer rules in Ethiopia or anywhere else, except in the heart of those who curse the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahido Churches.  As a matter of fact, it was the mentality of the Derg followers to separate themselves from the Mother Church of Ethiopia!  As they do now: Synods in Exile and Churches that claim independence--Patriarch and bishopless!  What is the difference between they and Protestants?

God blesses and God gives life...therefore, we should take heed of the words that His Imperial Majesty utterred, "No person knows the realm of God, therefore he should be humble and not condemn others..."

By the way, many Ethiopians, such as myself immigrate to America and abandon injera to eat MickeyDeez and other junk such as BK, not just His Eminence.

Peace to all,

haile Amanuel
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« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2008, 11:48:18 PM »

All Hail !!!JAH LIVETH!!
Careless Ethiopians Shall Go Down inna Babylon.
Careless Patriarch shall always be criticized by the faithful,for his illegal election while the original is alive.
Pope shenoda accept this false Patriarch Poulas, and God send a Sign in Ethiopia.Why do they re baptise faithful from Abba Yesehaq Churches?WAs it because Abba Yesehaq repremanded him for trailing his mission in south africa?we rather stay bishopless until our Lord appoint us a Fatherly shepherd.The Sheep knows the voice of the shepherd.These  days ,wicked bishops steal money and rape kids.They summon faithful to court during lent,instead of  church.Are they gonna baptise the judge and the media?Preacher man dont tell me heaven is under the earth.we know you dont know what life is worth.not all that  glitters is gold.Half the story is never been told.Now we see the light.Chalcedonians is worse than protestants in God"s sight.Rasta is here to stay to   KILL the Wicked With LOVE!!Long live the works of Abba Yesehaq,Atse Haileselassie And HON. Marcus Mosiah Garvey.The FOunder Of African Orthodox Church.I Love my Enemies,May the LORD Send ME MORE!!!
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« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2008, 12:12:48 AM »

Ras Zacka,

I don't think anyone here is your enemy.  We just want to understand you better.  I opened the website on your profile and it seems you somehow identify with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  However, you also seem angry with that Church (and others.)  Perhaps you should give the Ethiopian Orthodox Church more of a chance.
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« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2008, 12:57:56 AM »

Ras Zacka,

I don't think anyone here is your enemy.  We just want to understand you better.  I opened the website on your profile and it seems you somehow identify with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  However, you also seem angry with that Church (and others.)  Perhaps you should give the Ethiopian Orthodox Church more of a chance.

The website is merely in regards to the late Hierarch. Many Rastas will adhere to the EOC to a varying degree, as it suits them. That said, it would be interesting to know (for me at least) if the Brother here is a TToI member....

By the way, I don't believe Ras is being critical of the Ethiopian Church, but rather of the rival synods. Politricks, politricks, politricks... The Rastas should take care of their own house and leave the Tewahedo Church out of it all...
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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2008, 12:38:02 PM »

Kereestos Tenestwal!!!

I reviewed the website that the poster 'Ras Zacka' had in his profile.

Wow!

I will dispute nothing with this site or this brother.

People have the right to beleive what they want.

To many people the truth is according to each person; or something like that.

Of course the Holy Orthodox Church embraces ONE truth that we all must come to accept or simply reject.

Thus individualism and like minded thinking such as this is not at all connected to Orthodoxy but people have the right to think this way as well.

The hard part for them will be that when 'Orthodoxy' is being diseminated the people will become angry and uncomfortable with what they hear since it does not agree with "the truth" they are sure of and willing to die for already. People in this case are extremely debilitated and require a level of understanding and patience and not ridicule. Time with people like this will be long and arduous.

I have had to deal with various persons who refused to take penance and Holy Communion unless it was from the hand of the former Abuna Yesaq. This was a sort of 'truth' they were ingrained to follow. He has past away now. (God bless his soul). Now many of the same persons are finding out new "truths" and are changing there minds. What they were willing to die for before is no longer valid to them.

People need to choose!
and be allowed to choose.....

Most of the issues that pained our community 10 -15 years ago has become the road "home" for many who were following the Ethiopian Orthodox Church faith while at the same time was ignoring its most important element...The Holy Apostolic Hierarchy. The same pains are yet and still a wall to others of us today who insist on remaining with what is the 'truth' to them which is to follow the Ethiopian Orthodox Church while at the same time ignoring its important element that binds and sustains the Holy Orthodox faith which is the Holy Apostolic Hierarchy. Such are "waiting for a shepard" as I hear said and which is noted on the website I reviewed.

That is a rightious mindset but....

I am saddened by this view.

Christ said "His flock will never be without a Shepard".

What then is the truth? What Christ says? or what we say or do?

Somehow the fact that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is 2000 years in Christ and has never been without a shepard should cause anyone great concern that soemthing must be a little off if the Ethiopian Church or any Orthodox Community today is without a shepard.

But again people need time to discern. WE need to pray for each other.

I pray daily that with the grace of God we fix this matter while we have time. But I also fervently pray that the children that we leave to inherit our lifes work will be saved from the disgraceful ugliness that we have allowed to penetrate our lives, our minds and our faith.

God answers the call of unity only.

It matters not who is right are wrong. WE MUST LOVE EACH OTHER TO TRUELY WORSHIP OUR GOD AND RECEIVE HIS LOVE AND GRACE. This takes struggle and sacrafice.

We kid oursleves to think that we can be blessed by God while fighting our brother. Even if our brother is wrong God said PEACE RAIN SUPREME.

WE are all guilty.

Peace to us all in the name of Jesus Christ.
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
SolEX01
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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2008, 01:34:03 PM »

...Selam (Peace...)...

'Your best conversion tool (if any), is to find a picture of the Coronation of the Emperor where as I recall he is kneeling and kissing the hand of the Abuna.'

St. Moses the Black (aka St. Moses the Egyptian or St. Moses the Ethiopian) was a rogue criminal who confessed and converted to Orthodoxy in the early 5th Century AD.

http://www.stmaryofegypt.net/saints_moses.shtml
http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/saints.asp?contentid=181

Halie Selassie also claimed to be the king of the Jews due to being descended from King Solomon via King Menelik I. 
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ras zacka
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Blessed are the poor in spirit!H.H Abuna Yesehaq


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« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2008, 03:48:40 AM »

JAH LIVE.!
HAIL DE KING!!
KRESTOS TENSAIE....IS AWAKEN!!
AND
IS WAITING THERE .
JAH NO DEAD O!!!
Besemay AB,WO WELD ,WO MENFES KIDUS,AHADU AMLAK.AMEN.IN the name of FATHER,SON ,HOLY SPIRIT ONE GOD,AMEN.
 OH HOLY TRINITY,KIDEST SELASSIE, WE adore THEE.WE  bless and trust THEE,WE serve THY HOLY NAME to WHOME all knees bow and tongues confess the LORDS PRAYER....I N i beg YOU to forgive this vain glorious way of our pious brothers and sisters.
Have Mercy upon our
 self righteous leaders
,who have a zeal of godliness but not according to YOUR knowledge of YOUR TENDER  MERCIES and Your SELFLESS  L O V E.
Forgive our Sins through the prayers of QUEEN OMEGA ,ST MARY ,the new loom,who is the mother of THY ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,GOD ALMIGHTY IN FLESH,who became humanbeing with DIVINITY united , suffered in  the hands of mortal  human being ,by the 13 sufferings with the  5 nails ,sador alador ,danat,adera and rodas,died with divinity united with his humanity  , and rose the third day with the same  united divinity and humanity.For whose coming we look forward ,YESUS KRESTOS from the root of DAVID and JESSIE,whose Government is upon his shoulders,we offer song ,praise,glory and worship ,forever ,AMEN.

YES MI BREDRINES on this site.This is your world  not mine!!.i man is just passing thru.JUDGE NOT.GO convert pagans and CHRISTLESS peoples.
ST DAVID psalm 1 says..
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the council of the ungodly ,nor standeth in the ways of sinners ,nor sitteth in the seat of THE SCORNFUL.For his delight is in THE LAW OF THE LORD.SELAH

Now i dust off my shoe and wash mine hands like pontiff PILOT.
no more time to waste with  the blind guides.i want to thank who ever overstand my valuable stance.there is a big problem in our midsts  .Hope your thoughts go deeper within you by my visit to your houses.Abuna Yesehaq flesh is resting ,BUT his words i didnt  fail to Express.Peace and love i leave with you all.Brutalize OTHERS With LOVE.Kill all wicked with LOVE,feed the hungry,visit the sick,prisoners and those appointed to die,clothe the naked,and work for christian inity.we are the enemies of our own selves. Competing .Anti christ will rise out of jerusalem soon.Be prepared for Tribulation.
I will not be appearing on your site never ever soon.These are the last days.Reconsider your repercussions before judging.FIRE BUN LUCIFA!!LET GOD ARISE<AND SCATTER HIS ENEMIES.LET HIS HATERS FLEE AWAY AS SMOKE AND WAX.BE GLAD YE RIGHTEOUS AND REJOICE.SING PRAISES TO HIS NAME.EXTOL HIM THAT RIDETH ON THE HEAVENS BY HIS NAME
JAH and REJOICE BEFORE HIM .A FATHER OF THE BISHOPLESS AND A JUDGE OF THE WIDOWS IS GOD IN HIS HOLY SALUTATION!!
.psalm 68 KJV.
 THANK YOU ALL
Prayerfully YOURS RASTA ZACKA.
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Behold Philistia and Tyre,with Ethiopia ,this MAN was born there. And of Zion it shall be said ,this MAN and that MAN was born in HER!!psalm 87
PoorFoolNicholas
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« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2008, 11:44:33 AM »

JAH LIVE.!
HAIL DE KING!!
KRESTOS TENSAIE....IS AWAKEN!!
AND
IS WAITING THERE .
JAH NO DEAD O!!!
Besemay AB,WO WELD ,WO MENFES KIDUS,AHADU AMLAK.AMEN.IN the name of FATHER,SON ,HOLY SPIRIT ONE GOD,AMEN.
 OH HOLY TRINITY,KIDEST SELASSIE, WE adore THEE.WE  bless and trust THEE,WE serve THY HOLY NAME to WHOME all knees bow and tongues confess the LORDS PRAYER....I N i beg YOU to forgive this vain glorious way of our pious brothers and sisters.
Have Mercy upon our
 self righteous leaders
,who have a zeal of godliness but not according to YOUR knowledge of YOUR TENDER  MERCIES and Your SELFLESS  L O V E.
Forgive our Sins through the prayers of QUEEN OMEGA ,ST MARY ,the new loom,who is the mother of THY ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,GOD ALMIGHTY IN FLESH,who became humanbeing with DIVINITY united , suffered in  the hands of mortal  human being ,by the 13 sufferings with the  5 nails ,sador alador ,danat,adera and rodas,died with divinity united with his humanity  , and rose the third day with the same  united divinity and humanity.For whose coming we look forward ,YESUS KRESTOS from the root of DAVID and JESSIE,whose Government is upon his shoulders,we offer song ,praise,glory and worship ,forever ,AMEN.

YES MI BREDRINES on this site.This is your world  not mine!!.i man is just passing thru.JUDGE NOT.GO convert pagans and CHRISTLESS peoples.
ST DAVID psalm 1 says..
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the council of the ungodly ,nor standeth in the ways of sinners ,nor sitteth in the seat of THE SCORNFUL.For his delight is in THE LAW OF THE LORD.SELAH

Now i dust off my shoe and wash mine hands like pontiff PILOT.
no more time to waste with  the blind guides.i want to thank who ever overstand my valuable stance.there is a big problem in our midsts  .Hope your thoughts go deeper within you by my visit to your houses.Abuna Yesehaq flesh is resting ,BUT his words i didnt  fail to Express.Peace and love i leave with you all.Brutalize OTHERS With LOVE.Kill all wicked with LOVE,feed the hungry,visit the sick,prisoners and those appointed to die,clothe the naked,and work for christian inity.we are the enemies of our own selves. Competing .Anti christ will rise out of jerusalem soon.Be prepared for Tribulation.
I will not be appearing on your site never ever soon.These are the last days.Reconsider your repercussions before judging.FIRE BUN LUCIFA!!LET GOD ARISE<AND SCATTER HIS ENEMIES.LET HIS HATERS FLEE AWAY AS SMOKE AND WAX.BE GLAD YE RIGHTEOUS AND REJOICE.SING PRAISES TO HIS NAME.EXTOL HIM THAT RIDETH ON THE HEAVENS BY HIS NAME
JAH and REJOICE BEFORE HIM .A FATHER OF THE BISHOPLESS AND A JUDGE OF THE WIDOWS IS GOD IN HIS HOLY SALUTATION!!
.psalm 68 KJV.
 THANK YOU ALL
Prayerfully YOURS RASTA ZACKA.
Huh
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Amdetsion
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HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2008, 12:36:37 PM »

Huh

I here you.

We must pray for this person and for each other.
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
SolEX01
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« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2008, 04:25:34 PM »

Is any canonical Orthodox church in communion with anything from Ethiopia and/or any Coptic group?  I know that most of these entities rejected the Council of Chalcedon although they may have been "secretly" reconciled to canonical Orthodoxy.

I've seen Ethiopians and Eritereans take communion in canonical Orthodox jurisdictions and I'm always confused as to who is canonical and who isn't.
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Anastasios
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Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
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« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2008, 05:15:53 PM »

Is any canonical Orthodox church in communion with anything from Ethiopia and/or any Coptic group?  I know that most of these entities rejected the Council of Chalcedon although they may have been "secretly" reconciled to canonical Orthodoxy.

I've seen Ethiopians and Eritereans take communion in canonical Orthodox jurisdictions and I'm always confused as to who is canonical and who isn't.

All Eastern Orthodox vs Oriental Orthodox discussion should be by the following policy:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,3758.0.html

No-holds-barred discussion can take place in a private forum; if you are interested that, please PM me for access.
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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
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