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Author Topic: St. Jude's Hospital and stem cell processing  (Read 9961 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 03, 2008, 05:26:37 PM »

I just read a moment ago that this charity that I give to takes part in Stem Cell Processing. Does this necessarily change the philanthropic nature of this hospital/charity? I'm interested in hearing some viewpoints. (this may have already been a topic)

Christ is Born!
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 05:30:57 PM »

You know, I don't know.

Most vaccines are derived from aborted fetal tissue, so while the vaccines today are not directly derived from abortions, they have it in their "lineage" so to speak.

St. Judes does tremendously good work. And at least to my mind, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater when they do such great things. Although if there was a comparable organization that did the same work that St. Judes does, but is "better" ethically, I would help them instead.

I know, kind of a non-answer answer.
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 03:09:19 AM »

I just read a moment ago that this charity that I give to takes part in Stem Cell Processing. Does this necessarily change the philanthropic nature of this hospital/charity? I'm interested in hearing some viewpoints. (this may have already been a topic)

Christ is Born!

It's sound medicine and scientific research, for them to do otherwise would be irresponsible and unethical. Sounds like all the reason more to suppor them.
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 10:30:52 PM »

What kind of stem cell processing are we talking about?  Of the various types of stem cells currently being used (e.g., umbilical cord, embryonic, bone marrow, etc.), our hierarchs (IIRC) oppose only the processing of stem cells from human embryos.
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 10:57:37 PM »

our hierarchs (IIRC) oppose only the processing of stem cells from human embryos.

Speak for your own Bishop, I have yet to hear any such thing from either my Metropolitan, His Eminence Gerasimos of San Francisco or his His All-Holiness the Oecumenical Patriarch even as personal opinion, much less codified dogma.
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 09:33:13 AM »

Most vaccines are derived from aborted fetal tissue, so while the vaccines today are not directly derived from abortions, they have it in their "lineage" so to speak.
Could you provide some data on this? It's quite a claim.

Speak for your own Bishop, I have yet to hear any such thing from either my Metropolitan, His Eminence Gerasimos of San Francisco or his His All-Holiness the Oecumenical Patriarch even as personal opinion, much less codified dogma.
Good to hear! As I've said before, issues of science should be left to science, to allow religious leaders to focus on faith issues.
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 02:15:39 PM »

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/immunization_issues_detail.cfv?id=32

http://et-tu.blogspot.com/2007/10/vaccines-and-aborted-fetal-tissue.html

http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccines.htm

http://www.cogforlife.org/merckresponse.htm

http://www.cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0044.html
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 02:18:06 PM »

http://www.cogforlife.org/ebolaAlert.htm

Quote
The vaccine will be manufactured using Crucell’s PER C6 cell line, which is derived from the retinal tissue of an 18 week gestation fetus, aborted because, according to Dr. Van Der Eb at a recent hearing with the FDA, “The women wanted to get rid of the fetus. …The father was not known and that was, in fact, the reason why the abortion was requested.”

 
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 05:46:48 PM »

Good to hear! As I've said before, issues of science should be left to science, to allow religious leaders to focus on faith issues.
But when issues of scientific research methods impinge on our call to revere and protect human life (i.e., embryonic stem cell research), is this not a faith issue on which our spiritual leaders have the responsibility to speak?
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 06:32:50 PM »

But when issues of scientific research methods impinge on our call to revere and protect human life (i.e., embryonic stem cell research), is this not a faith issue on which our spiritual leaders have the responsibility to speak?

There are a lot of shades of gray in this one.  The embryos were created in a way that is not condoned by the church and are at this point just sitting around in storage.  There are four options at this point:

1. Keep the embryos in long term cold storage indefinitely

2. Pull the plug on extra and unwanted embryos

3. Implant them in surrogate mothers (ignoring the logistical problems of finding such) - this process will kill more embryos than it will "save"

4. Use them for scientific research

At this point it is hard to see any one of those as the most ethical option. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 07:33:21 PM »

But when issues of scientific research methods impinge on our call to revere and protect human life (i.e., embryonic stem cell research), is this not a faith issue on which our spiritual leaders have the responsibility to speak?

Not really, we'll call the church when we want to know if this cluster of cells should be baptized, other than that the Church just needs to keep away from the entire issue, which seems to be what most of our Bishops are doing at least.
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2008, 04:03:00 PM »

Thank you for the links.

This one was quite informative, actually. I never realized how vaccines are made, but it is truly remarkable. It's amazing that we can manipulate even disease-causing organisms for our benefit.

Quote
Blog. Dismissed.

Quote
This site has an agendum, as evidenced by their classification of "Fetal cell line" as opposed to "Ethical version." They do not directly state yet strongly imply that growing vaccines in human stem cells is unethical.

Quote
I stopped reading after they compared vaccines to Soylent Green. Hogwash.

Conclusion: the initial experimentation on vaccine preparation may have been done with fetal tissue, but current vaccines are not prepared this way. One bad apple....
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2008, 04:10:02 PM »

But when issues of scientific research methods impinge on our call to revere and protect human life (i.e., embryonic stem cell research), is this not a faith issue on which our spiritual leaders have the responsibility to speak?
I disagree with one word of this statement: "when." It has not been shown that stem cell research in any way destroys human life, and therefore this is not a faith issue. Religious leaders need not say a word about it, any more than they need to speak about nuclear fusion power.
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2008, 07:39:11 PM »

I disagree with one word of this statement: "when." It has not been shown that stem cell research in any way destroys human life, and therefore this is not a faith issue. Religious leaders need not say a word about it, any more than they need to speak about nuclear fusion power.
I'm really not talking solely about the destruction of human life.  I'm talking also about how we revere the human body as bearing the image of God even after its soul has departed and it is physically dead, the reverence that underlies our belief in the sanctity of relics and our general disdain for cremation, as vs. Orthodox burial.  I guess the most relevant application of this question is the use of human cadavers for scientific research.  Is such (mis?)use of the human body justifiable, even in the name of science?  I personally don't know.

But seeing how embryonic stem cell research, IIRC, requires embryos already killed for other reasons, does not our Orthodox reverence for the sanctity of the human dead make this a faith issue?  I believe it does.
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2008, 09:32:41 PM »

I'm really not talking solely about the destruction of human life.  I'm talking also about how we revere the human body as bearing the image of God even after its soul has departed and it is physically dead, the reverence that underlies our belief in the sanctity of relics and our general disdain for cremation, as vs. Orthodox burial.  I guess the most relevant application of this question is the use of human cadavers for scientific research.  Is such (mis?)use of the human body justifiable, even in the name of science?  I personally don't know.

How could one even question whether or not research on the human dead is acceptable in this day and age. The development of modern medicine would have been impossible without cadavers and this medicine has one so much to alleviate real and tangible human suffering. Would it have been worth forcing millions into untold suffering to that the sancity of a corpse could be maintained? I submit that these cadavers were put to far better use than even the relics of the saints. This medical research is a good and honourable thing.

Quote
But seeing how embryonic stem cell research, IIRC, requires embryos already killed for other reasons, does not our Orthodox reverence for the sanctity of the human dead make this a faith issue?  I believe it does.

Technically not, after the cell copies it self three or four times you could technically take a handful of cells and the embryo would easily compensate without any developmental problems. While evolution had problems with matters of genetic efficiency, it did quite well in the creating of redundant and hardy systems. Of course, until the technology comes along to somehow demonstrate the future intellectual or athletic potential of this embryo and it turns out to be some future Einstein, who's going to want it? The market for embryo adoption is very limited and yet there are countless embryos out there in stasis. If not used entirely for scientific research, they'll simply be discarded, which would be a shame considering the economic and biological resources required to create them. Further, if you are amongst the few who view these as human lives (which I do not) wouldn't it be unfortunate if the life was simply thrown into a dumpster rather than having the cells used for the good of humanity. Those are, ultimately, the only two options in the real world.
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2008, 10:00:13 PM »

Is such (mis?)use of the human body justifiable, even in the name of science?  I personally don't know.
Quite a question--or two. I don't think I could answer either of them: Is it proper use or misuse; and is it justifiable? I'm not one to say that ends justify the means, and there have indeed been some good results from such research. As to whether we can ethically say that the entire process is good or bad--I'm not enough of an expert in this research to be able to tell you.

I have believed, even as a Protestant, that intentions matter more than actions. That is to say, a sin committed with good intentions will harm someone less than a good deed done with selfish intentions.

So to the point, this is not an issue I would expect a bishop or priest to address, but if he does, I'll weigh his opinion on the matter. I do not think that this is important enough of an issue for a dogma, and I certainly would not feel obligated to agree with his opinion. To me, this is a scientific issue--not a political one, and not a religious one--and I'll gladly leave it up to the scientists.
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2008, 10:21:53 PM »

Thank you for the links.
This one was quite informative, actually. I never realized how vaccines are made, but it is truly remarkable. It's amazing that we can manipulate even disease-causing organisms for our benefit.
Blog. Dismissed.
This site has an agendum, as evidenced by their classification of "Fetal cell line" as opposed to "Ethical version." They do not directly state yet strongly imply that growing vaccines in human stem cells is unethical.
I stopped reading after they compared vaccines to Soylent Green. Hogwash.

Conclusion: the initial experimentation on vaccine preparation may have been done with fetal tissue, but current vaccines are not prepared this way. One bad apple....

The Vatican statement is not the personal opinion of a blogger.
http://www.cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm


And you don't quite understand it. The vax made today may not be DIRECTLY derived from abortive tissue. But they are derived from the original vax that were. So it is still derived from abortive tissue, just many generations down the line. Read the blogs before you dismiss them.
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2008, 12:46:49 AM »

The Vatican statement is not the personal opinion of a blogger.
http://www.cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm


And you don't quite understand it. The vax made today may not be DIRECTLY derived from abortive tissue. But they are derived from the original vax that were. So it is still derived from abortive tissue, just many generations down the line. Read the blogs before you dismiss them.

So don't use the vaccine and we'll let darwinian natural selection take its course.
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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2008, 02:58:42 AM »

So don't use the vaccine and we'll let darwinian natural selection take its course.

I never said I am against vaccination. I am merely refuting the claim that they are not derived from abortive fetal tissue. I am the product of my great grandparents, just as current vax are the product of the original vax that are derived from fetal tissue. It may be quite a bit back in the past but the relation is still there.

It is a difficult issue that is far from black and white.

And your response is the pinnacle of rude and uncharitable speech-akin to saying that my family and I should die. Sad

Given how a good majority of my ancestors were wiped out by small pox, I have to say that is a rather large and sensitive nerve you hit.
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2008, 03:12:59 AM »

And while the blog obviously does have an agenda it does explain why different vax have their various names with numbers next to them. Read before you dismiss. If you think it is absolutely fine to create a vax from abortive fetal tissue then think of it in terms of "human" and "non-human" tissue that was used to create the vax. But it is true that a great number of vax have been created from abortive procedures.
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2008, 03:15:56 AM »

Although I don't care how you paint it this below is just sad. They could have done what the Japanese did, but instead they used a "theraputic" abortion to make the vaccination.

http://et-tu.blogspot.com/2007/10/vaccines-and-aborted-fetal-tissue.html

Quote
RA273
The story of the Rubella vaccine is a bit more grim. It involved not one, but 28 abortions. Twenty-seven to isolate the virus, and then it was cultured in WI-38 (see above). The acronym RA273 means: R=Rubella, A=Abortus, 27=27th fetus tested, 3=3rd tissue explanted. From a Catholic Education Resource Center article:

Rubella is most dangerous for preborn infants, who have a 20 to 25 percent chance of contracting congenital rubella syndrome if their mothers catch rubella during the first trimester. Scientists at the Wistar Institute took advantage of the 1964-65 rubella epidemic to legally acquire fetal tissue from at least 27 so-called therapeutic abortions conducted on women at risk for rubella. Since the live virus was not detected until the 27th abortion, the preceding 26 abortions were apparently performed on perfectly healthy babies. By contrast, Japanese researchers obtained a live virus by swabbing the throat of an infected child.
From an article in American Journal Diseases of Children (referenced here):

Explant cultures were made of the dissected organs of a particular fetus aborted because of rubella, the 27th in our series of fetuses aborted. This fetus was from a 25-year-old mother exposed to rubella 8 days after her last menstrual period. 16 days later she developed rubella. The fetus was surgically aborted 17 days after maternal illness and dissected immediately. Explants from several organs were cultured and successful cell growth was achieved from lung, skin, and kidney. It was then grown on WI-38. The new vaccine was tested on orphans in Philadelphia. 

And if you were to actually look at the blog you would see that they site sources. This person merely put all the info in one place, rather than a myriad of websites to look at, you can go to one.
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 03:19:19 AM »

I guess the most relevant application of this question is the use of human cadavers for scientific research.  Is such (mis?)use of the human body justifiable, even in the name of science?  I personally don't know.
Having thought about this some more, I recognize a fundamental distinction between cadavers and human embryos.  At least with a cadaver, the person whose body is now the cadaver very likely willed, while alive and of sound mind and body (hopefully), that his/her body be used for scientific research.  In a way, this is like willful organ donation, which I have permitted to be done with me after I'm dead.
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 03:26:11 AM »

I will confess that the thought of fetal tissue being used for vaccinations is one of extreme emotional impact to me. We have lost 4 babies at various stages of pregnancy. I have and continue to mourn every single baby we lost. It would be intellectually dishonest of me to mourn my children because they were "wanted" but not the babies lost at the same stages merely because they were "not wanted." All life is sacred, or no life is sacred. The level of desire a person has to others doesn't determine their value.
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2008, 03:32:36 AM »

There is a project called Snowflakes that allows people to donate unused fetilized eggs to couples like an adoption.
http://www.embryoadoption.org/about/index.cfm
I would much rather see that done to them than research. Harvest and fetilization is expensive.
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2008, 03:33:57 AM »

I never said I am against vaccination. I am merely refuting the claim that they are not derived from abortive fetal tissue. I am the product of my great grandparents, just as current vax are the product of the original vax that are derived from fetal tissue. It may be quite a bit back in the past but the relation is still there.

It is a difficult issue that is far from black and white.

And your response is the pinnacle of rude and uncharitable speech-akin to saying that my family and I should die. Sad

Given how a good majority of my ancestors were wiped out by small pox, I have to say that is a rather large and sensitive nerve you hit.

I assumed from your posts that you were spewing out more pro-life propaganda, if I am in error, my apologies. If I am not in error, then I stand by what I said. The vaccine is there, from my perspective the manner in which it was created is irrelevant; one can choose to either use or, based on some ethical principle they hold, not use it (fortunately we no longer generally need this particular vaccine, but the principle remains), if they don't this concession to ignorance or morality or whatever you want to call it is, practically speaking, devastating from a darwinian perspective. It's an ideology that nature will take care of by itself.
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2008, 03:34:53 AM »

There is a project called Snowflakes that allows people to donate unused fetilized eggs to couples like an adoption.
http://www.embryoadoption.org/about/index.cfm
I would much rather see that done to them than research. Harvest and fetilization is expensive.

Go for it, I'll personally continue to support scientific research; it will do a lot more to benefit humanity than contributing to our problem of overpopulation.
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2008, 03:36:59 AM »

Go for it, I'll personally continue to support scientific research; it will do a lot more to benefit humanity than contributing to our problem of overpopulation.

Oh! You believe in overpopulation! Grin Now I understand. There is no point discussing this with you further. I can not and never will believe that the world is overpopulated.
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2008, 03:42:56 AM »

Oh! You believe in overpopulation! Grin Now I understand. There is no point discussing this with you further. I can not and never will believe that the world is overpopulated.

Well, I personally don't like people, so the concept of overpopulation is rather easy for me to sympathize with. Wink

But, though I've heard some argue that the world is not overpopulated today, to say that it will never be is quite a stretch...you do understand that there are limited resources on this planet simply by virtue of there being limited space, don't you?
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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2008, 03:47:06 AM »

I assumed from your posts that you were spewing out more pro-life propaganda, if I am in error, my apologies. If I am not in error, then I stand by what I said.
And you're NOT spewing out propaganda? Wink
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2008, 03:50:59 AM »

I will give you the same response I give people that tell me I am "part of the overpopulation problem" speech because I have three kids and want more; (mostly joking resonse)

If the world is overpopulated why don't we make human hunting legal?

or

If the world is overpopulated who should be the first people that are lined up to be sterilized?

I already had a tubal ligation nearly forced on me at 15 because I am american indian, and we indian girls just don't know how NOT TO get pregnant as a teenager, and we are all out there whooping it up laugh. Sanger was a racist, and my race was at the top end of her list for extermination. Overpopulation arguments are merely a cover for a classist and racist view point. No one ever suggests that rich white people should have less children.
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« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2008, 03:53:10 AM »

And as a side note. It was the American indian socialized medical system that tried really hard to have me sterlized at 15. I am 29, so it wasn't that long ago, and it was when the world was supposedly less racist.
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2008, 03:55:11 AM »

 Grin
I kept my really rude response to myself up there because I would never say it to anyone on here, and I don't really advocate suicide laugh But usually it gets them to stop lecturing me at costco...YES COSTCO! I am lectured about overpopulation and my "sin" of it in a BULK buying warehouse!

I have to say the FUNNIEST instance of the overpopulation argument given to me was by a woman with a two year old who was pregnant. I pointed out how ironic it was and she said that it was just to replace her husband and herself. I responded; "Well then doesn't that mean that you and your husband should die right after you give birth then? I mean, you have replacements, and the world is still overpopulated right. Or is it only overpopulated with people that aren't from your gene pool?"
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2008, 04:08:01 AM »

And you're NOT spewing out propaganda? Wink

Never said I wasn't, but you at least have to admit that it's not pro-life propaganda. Wink
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2008, 04:17:13 AM »

While I think any form of ethnic cleansing is a great tragedy and that many early proponents of birth control were racists is entirely irreverent as to whether overpopulation exists.  And for someone living in a nation with a low population density and high GDP per capita, of course you don't believe in overpopulation.  Contrast that with a very poor nation with a very high population density - take Pakistan or Western Africa - and where resources are growing more and more scarce.  For much of the world overpopulation isn't a matter for suburban Americans to mull have many more kids will fit in their SUV, it is a matter of will the next child likely face starvation, malnutrition, disease, lack of even basic sanitation etc.
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2008, 04:21:19 AM »

I will give you the same response I give people that tell me I am "part of the overpopulation problem" speech because I have three kids and want more; (mostly joking resonse)

If the world is overpopulated why don't we make human hunting legal?

We do, we just choose to call it war. Heck, my late grandfather even had a friend to took trophies. But they made him leave them in Japan, I guess some rule about importing game without a license. Grin

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If the world is overpopulated who should be the first people that are lined up to be sterilized?

I advocate the use of the IQ test for this purpose, those with IQ's under 70, certainly, IQ's 80-90 ,probably, IQ's 90-100, depends on how populated the territory is and how quickly we wish to decrease the population. In more drastic situations, go up from there.

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I already had a tubal ligation nearly forced on me at 15 because I am american indian,

Well, if that was the only reason, then it was wrong. I do advocate a degree of forced sterilization and population control, but based on intelligence, not race.

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and we indian girls just don't know how NOT TO get pregnant as a teenager, and we are all out there whooping it up laugh.

Well, anyone who knows how to pop a pill should know how to not get pregnant, I have a hard time buying that argument.

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Sanger was a racist, and my race was at the top end of her list for extermination.

Are we talking about the same Sanger? If you're talking about Margaret Sanger, she would have been dead before you were even born; but in any case, she was a great person and a visionary, may her ideas and causes come to the fruition she desired.

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Overpopulation arguments are merely a cover for a classist and racist view point. No one ever suggests that rich white people should have less children.

I don't know that my approach is either racist or classist. If the rich white person somehow has a low IQ they would be just as subject to population control requirements as the poor black person with a similar IQ. I believe this would be a wonderful way to both prevent further overpopulation as well as guide the human race towards genetic and intellectual improvement.

Of course, on the flip side, honesty compels me to observe that those who are well-to-do tend not to have as many children as those who are poor and rich countries tend to have a birth rate less than the replacement level. So, in a way, it is a problem of the poor (though the few rich with low IQ's still shouldn't be reproducing at all for reasons relating entirely to genetics).
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 04:26:02 AM »

Ah, so you are more in line with the more Hitler-ish ideals of sterlization of the metal infirm. So then I imagine you think the euthanasia is a great idea too? So then, if you had a child that didn't have a high IQ you would sterlize them? I feel bad for your kids laugh
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2008, 04:27:54 AM »

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"and we indian girls just don't know how NOT TO get pregnant as a teenager, and we are all out there whooping it up ."


"Well, anyone who knows how to pop a pill should know how to not get pregnant, I have a hard time buying that argument."

That was a very sarcasm laced comment. I am saying that they assumed since I am indian I don't know how to not get pregnant.
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 04:29:06 AM »

Ah, so you are more in line with the more Hitler-ish ideals of sterlization of the metal infirm. So then I imagine you think the euthanasia is a great idea too? So then, if you had a child that didn't have a high IQ you would sterlize them? I feel bad for your kids laugh

Don't let GiC get your goat.  As far as GiC and kids... do you really think there is a woman out there that would procreate with him  Tongue angel
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2008, 04:29:43 AM »

IQ tests for everyone! Roll Eyes

I think mine is in the 120-130 range last time I checked. But I don't have an education beyond the 9th grade, and my GPA was .05 do I make the cut? Grin
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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2008, 04:31:37 AM »

Don't let GiC get your goat.  As far as GiC and kids... do you really think there is a woman out there that would procreate with him  Tongue angel


I am sure he doesn't want "my filthy goat" (insert Zorach laugh)

He gets no more rise out of me than anyone else. I am merely killing time at a little past midnight holding a baby on my lap. Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2008, 04:32:15 AM »

Ah, so you are more in line with the more Hitler-ish ideals of sterlization of the metal infirm. So then I imagine you think the euthanasia is a great idea too?

To a degree, minus the racist component in any case. The mere fact that national socialists did something doesn't automatically imply it is wrong. You know, they also built roads and bridges, are we going to stop developing our infastructure because Hitler developed the autobahn system?

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So then, if you had a child that didn't have a high IQ you would sterlize them? I feel bad for your kids laugh

Can parents actually do that? In any case, if I produced offspring that was genetically disposed to lower intelligence, and it wasn't a random mutation as can often cause such things as mental retardation, it is quite likely to take measures to ensure that I didn't further reproduce. If I couldn't pass on a genetic predisposition towards intelligence, what's the point of my reproducing?
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2008, 04:34:07 AM »

Don't let GiC get your goat.  As far as GiC and kids... do you really think there is a woman out there that would procreate with him  Tongue angel

Cheesy not a sane one in any case. Grin
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2008, 04:36:11 AM »

I am well aware that Hitler did some good things for his country. He couldn't have risen thru the ranks of goverment unless he did. But that doesn't negate the damage he did. When we draw lines of value they often keep moving. So that no one is valuable and everyone is expendable.

You can give your child an IQ test as early as the age of 4. There are some private schools up here that don't allow children into the school unless they score at least a 125, but preferance is given to those with an IQ above 135.

I would like to see you try and have your 4 year old sterilized Roll Eyes (truly I wouldn't, but your rhetoric is easy to spout when you don't have children.)
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2008, 04:37:25 AM »

IQ tests for everyone! Roll Eyes

I think mine is in the 120-130 range last time I checked. But I don't have an education beyond the 9th grade, and my GPA was .05 do I make the cut? Grin

You most certainly do, intelligence is passed on regardless of the grades you got in school. You're probably the right person to have more children...hopefully to offset the genetic damage being done to the human race by those with IQ's below 100 who insist on procreating to the detriment of us all.

Now as to whether or not you should be rasing your children, that's a different question. Grin j/k Wink
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2008, 04:38:59 AM »

Certain ethnicities do tend to have lower overall IQ numbers. I won't go thru the rates since I don't belive that those numbers mean anything. But it is true that there are "smarter" ethnicities in theory. So then, should we just wipe out the ethnicities that have a lower potential for high IQs?
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