Author Topic: Vampirism and Orthodoxy  (Read 5637 times)

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Offline mike

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2012, 02:05:28 PM »
Again, I ask (as I've asked you a number of times before with regard to other words you've used) *what* is a "stilist".  It's obvious that English is not your first language, and I certainly have no problem with that at all.  But if you want people to understand what you write and mean, it only makes sense to provide clarification for words that you use that are unclear and that you are asked about.  Is that so difficult?

A fan of this type of activity.

In what language?

Makes me wonder how many foreign languages can you speak fluently.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2012, 02:21:44 PM »
Again, I ask (as I've asked you a number of times before with regard to other words you've used) *what* is a "stilist".  It's obvious that English is not your first language, and I certainly have no problem with that at all.  But if you want people to understand what you write and mean, it only makes sense to provide clarification for words that you use that are unclear and that you are asked about.  Is that so difficult?

A fan of this type of activity.

In what language?

Makes me wonder how many foreign languages can you speak fluently.

Fluently?  One-Hebrew.  Two, if you count Texan.  :angel:  Three, if you count British English.  :angel: :angel:  (Besides, how is my proficiency or lack thereof in multiple foreign languages relevant to the quite simple question I asked?)

But your response doesn't answer my question.  I did, by the way, google the word and got responses that made absolutely no sense at all in the context which Azul used it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 02:24:49 PM by J Michael »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline mike

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2012, 02:28:59 PM »
Fluently?  One-Hebrew.  Two, if you count Texan.  :angel:  Three, if you count British English.  :angel: :angel:  (Besides, how is my proficiency or lack thereof in multiple foreign languages relevant to the quite simple question I asked?)

Because you make fun of people who do not write English as well as you do

Quote
But your response doesn't answer my question.  I did, by the way, google the word and got responses that made absolutely no sense at all in the context which Azul used it.

It looks like I've overdone comparative linguistics without the context.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2012, 02:33:25 PM »
I think what Michal is getting at is that stilist = stylite
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2012, 02:37:11 PM »
Did he climb down from his pillar to chat about history and folklore?

Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2012, 02:44:01 PM »
Fluently?  One-Hebrew.  Two, if you count Texan.  :angel:  Three, if you count British English.  :angel: :angel:  (Besides, how is my proficiency or lack thereof in multiple foreign languages relevant to the quite simple question I asked?)

Because you make fun of people who do not write English as well as you do

Yeah, I've probably been guilty of that a number of times.  Mea culpa.  And, having traveled in many countries where English is not widely spoken or understood, my sometimes feeble attempts at speaking the native tongue have been sources of uproarious hilarity to others---and myself.  We have have a saying here in the U.S. about being able to take a joke and to laugh at yourself.  It involves profanity so I won't repeat it here.  If you're interested, I'd be happy to send it to you via personal message.

Now, do you want to make this about me and my failings, or do you want to answer the question that I asked, quite sincerely and honestly, about the language and meaning of the word "stilist"?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2012, 02:47:36 PM »
I think what Michal is getting at is that stilist = stylite

That crossed my mind, but I wasn't aware people still sat on pillars for endless hours/days/weeks/months, etc., so I dismissed the idea.  Perhaps I did so prematurely.  But...I did ask...
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline mike

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2012, 02:50:27 PM »
I think what Michal is getting at is that stilist = stylite

That crossed my mind, but I wasn't aware people still sat on pillars for endless hours/days/weeks/months, etc., so I dismissed the idea.  Perhaps I did so prematurely.  But...I did ask...

Yes, I had not read Azul's original post and thought he meant that.
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Offline jmbejdl

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2012, 03:29:50 AM »
I had a stilist aquiantance telling me that the reason Vlad the Impaler is made into a vampire and called Dracula is because of the west, because he was a devout Orthodox and a just ruler.

This would suggest something slightly different and more, shall we say, mundane.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

Seems that his main enemies were Ottoman Turks (muslims), not Western Europeans, and that his reputation was one of great cruelty rather than as a "just ruler".

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the rather long article.



And, what is "a stilist"???

You don`t know anything of Vlad the Impaler ignorant.He is one of the most just rulers of Transylvania if not Romania.. He was cruel but he was just.He was cruel in his punishments.. On his time there was a golden vessel in the middle of the market and no one stoled it.

Vlad Tepes never ruled Transylvania. He was Voievod of Wallachia (Tara Romaneasca). Yes he's renowned for being just (though the story you tell is one of many variants and likely a legend meant to show how the people feared and respected him) but he was also extremely cruel - hence the 'Impaler' moniker. He certainly wasn't, unlike his cousin Stefan, devoutly Orthodox however, as he converted to Roman Catholicism in order to attempt to get political and military support from Roman Catholic states against the Turks. When that fell through he returned to Orthodoxy and during his second reign (he ruled twice) his only real ally was Stefan cel Mare's Moldova.

As to the argument that his main enemies and the source of propaganda stories were the Turks made above, this is definitely untrue. The majority of the stories come from the Saxons in Transylvania (he was not particularly well disposed towards their merchants) which is why they were so prevalent in Hungary at the time Stoker was writing Dracula.

James
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2012, 09:59:48 AM »
Stilist is a typo for stylist.  The person who does someone's hair.  Barber.

J Michael, you seriously couldn't get stylist out of stilist?  You seemed to understand that aquiantance, stood for acquaintance without any problem.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 10:01:31 AM by LizaSymonenko »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2012, 10:27:39 AM »
Stilist is a typo for stylist.  The person who does someone's hair.  Barber.

J Michael, you seriously couldn't get stylist out of stilist?  You seemed to understand that aquiantance, stood for acquaintance without any problem.


Are you sure?  What does the fact that this acquaintance is a barber have to do with anything and what gravity do the opinions of a hairdresser have about the history of Vlad Tepes?
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2012, 10:34:23 AM »
And I finished watching Strigoi last night.  Some possible spoilers ahead:












The ending was weird and leaves all sorts of loose ends untied.  The vampires were taken care of but the real monsters, the greedy humans, were still around.  The vampires were not treated as being inherently evil beings, but actually victims of violent deaths and burial in unconsecrated ground.  They weren't entirely sympathetic, but just intelligent walking dead.  They certainly weren't the teeth-baring maniacs of Hollywood, but more in tune with what I know of the original Romanian folklore.  The folklore itself was treated pretty respectfully in context with the story which was, as I said, really about simple human greed and deception.  The priest of the village is, as one would expect in such a film, an outright villain.

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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2012, 12:21:37 PM »
Stilist is a typo for stylist.  The person who does someone's hair.  Barber.

J Michael, you seriously couldn't get stylist out of stilist?  You seemed to understand that aquiantance, stood for acquaintance without any problem.


Are you sure?  What does the fact that this acquaintance is a barber have to do with anything and what gravity do the opinions of a hairdresser have about the history of Vlad Tepes?

Precisely.

I guess that unless and until Azul graces us once more with his presence on this thread and deigns to enlighten us about the word "stilist" and what he meant, we'll just have to fumble along in the dark, making speculation after speculation about it.  Or we could, as I've chosen to do, just stop caring about it.   ;)
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2012, 12:38:26 PM »
Stilist is a typo for stylist.  The person who does someone's hair.  Barber.

J Michael, you seriously couldn't get stylist out of stilist?  You seemed to understand that aquiantance, stood for acquaintance without any problem.


Are you sure?  What does the fact that this acquaintance is a barber have to do with anything and what gravity do the opinions of a hairdresser have about the history of Vlad Tepes?

Precisely.

I guess that unless and until Azul graces us once more with his presence on this thread and deigns to enlighten us about the word "stilist" and what he meant, we'll just have to fumble along in the dark, making speculation after speculation about it.  Or we could, as I've chosen to do, just stop caring about it.   ;)

Probably the best course for most threads on OC.net these days. ;)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 12:38:37 PM by Schultz »
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2012, 12:46:49 PM »
Stilist is a typo for stylist.  The person who does someone's hair.  Barber.

J Michael, you seriously couldn't get stylist out of stilist?  You seemed to understand that aquiantance, stood for acquaintance without any problem.


Are you sure?  What does the fact that this acquaintance is a barber have to do with anything and what gravity do the opinions of a hairdresser have about the history of Vlad Tepes?

Precisely.

I guess that unless and until Azul graces us once more with his presence on this thread and deigns to enlighten us about the word "stilist" and what he meant, we'll just have to fumble along in the dark, making speculation after speculation about it.  Or we could, as I've chosen to do, just stop caring about it.   ;)

Probably the best course for most threads on OC.net these days. ;)

Yup.
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Offline Azul

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2012, 03:21:21 PM »
stilist = Old Calendaristic.. from Ortodox de stil de vechi... and stilist also means hair stilist...
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2012, 03:23:10 PM »
stilist = Old Calendaristic.. from Ortodox de stil de vechi... and stilist also means hair stilist...

Interesting.  So that makes Fr. A a master barber? ;)

tee hee, just kidding. 
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2012, 03:25:34 PM »
stilist = Old Calendaristic.. from Ortodox de stil de vechi... and stilist also means hair stilist...

Interesting.  So that makes Fr. A a master barber? ;)

tee hee, just kidding. 

ROTFL!


(Can you tell I'm bored?  ;D)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2012, 03:26:40 PM »
stilist = Old Calendaristic.. from Ortodox de stil de vechi... and stilist also means hair stilist...

I thought we'd never find out!

Thank you!
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Offline Azul

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2012, 03:28:10 PM »
stilist = Old Calendaristic.. from Ortodox de stil de vechi... and stilist also means hair stilist...

Interesting.  So that makes Fr. A a master barber? ;)

tee hee, just kidding. 

only if you don`t know the way the word is used. :)

stop divinizing priests and bishops, they are here to divinize us, they are our servant , servant to the laity that is their scope... if they don`t act like it rebuke them.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2012, 04:35:52 PM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2012, 04:44:28 PM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Tell that to Geralt.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:44:56 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2012, 04:57:19 PM »
Technically aren't we vampires whenever we receive the Holy Eucharist?  ???
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2012, 03:47:44 AM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
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Offline jmbejdl

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2012, 03:48:23 AM »
Technically aren't we vampires whenever we receive the Holy Eucharist?  ???

No. In exactly the same way as we aren't cannibals.

James
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2012, 09:27:45 AM »
Technically aren't we vampires whenever we receive the Holy Eucharist?  ???

Is that a serious question?
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2012, 10:18:00 AM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
Older people (and some younger ones) tended to believe in "bosorci" as they called those creatures in my region. They could even point to specific people  that of course,, everybody knew were "bosorci". A "bosorca/bisorca" is, I'd say more like a werewolf: a man or a woman able to turn into an animal, usually a very large cat or dog. Another belief concerned the so-called "vilva", especially "vilva lupilor", a man that, due to the unusual/magic circumstances of his birth was able to control the wolves, talk to them, direct them. But these people were relatively ostracized. IIRC correctly a German (?) made a documentary in the late nineties about such a a man (vilva lupilor) still living on the upper course of Crisul Alb river, in the "Apuseni" mountains which is roughly my region too.

Offline jmbejdl

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2012, 10:35:37 AM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
Older people (and some younger ones) tended to believe in "bosorci" as they called those creatures in my region. They could even point to specific people  that of course,, everybody knew were "bosorci". A "bosorca/bisorca" is, I'd say more like a werewolf: a man or a woman able to turn into an animal, usually a very large cat or dog. Another belief concerned the so-called "vilva", especially "vilva lupilor", a man that, due to the unusual/magic circumstances of his birth was able to control the wolves, talk to them, direct them. But these people were relatively ostracized. IIRC correctly a German (?) made a documentary in the late nineties about such a a man (vilva lupilor) still living on the upper course of Crisul Alb river, in the "Apuseni" mountains which is roughly my region too.

I don't know of 'bosorci' but I do know that the names (and some of the details) vary from place to place. My wife's ancestral village is in Bucovina, a few km south of Siret. That's the area I am by far the most familiar with (up to and including the area around the painted monasteries). Is 'vilva' equivalent to 'vâlvă'?  It sounds like it must be but my understanding of the 'vâlve' is nothing like you describe - they seem to be similar to the 'iele' rather than being people and they are always female (as the grammar would suggest they should be).

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Offline augustin717

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2012, 10:42:39 AM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
Older people (and some younger ones) tended to believe in "bosorci" as they called those creatures in my region. They could even point to specific people  that of course,, everybody knew were "bosorci". A "bosorca/bisorca" is, I'd say more like a werewolf: a man or a woman able to turn into an animal, usually a very large cat or dog. Another belief concerned the so-called "vilva", especially "vilva lupilor", a man that, due to the unusual/magic circumstances of his birth was able to control the wolves, talk to them, direct them. But these people were relatively ostracized. IIRC correctly a German (?) made a documentary in the late nineties about such a a man (vilva lupilor) still living on the upper course of Crisul Alb river, in the "Apuseni" mountains which is roughly my region too.

I don't know of 'bosorci' but I do know that the names (and some of the details) vary from place to place. My wife's ancestral village is in Bucovina, a few km south of Siret. That's the area I am by far the most familiar with (up to and including the area around the painted monasteries). Is 'vilva' equivalent to 'vâlvă'?  It sounds like it must be but my understanding of the 'vâlve' is nothing like you describe - they seem to be similar to the 'iele' rather than being people and they are always female (as the grammar would suggest they should be).

James
I don't know about Moldova/Bucovina, but I'm sure what I'm saying is accurate for Western Carpathians (Western Transylvania) at least.
http://www.formula-as.ro/2010/928/societate-37/valva-lupilor-12695

Offline Azul

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2012, 03:23:10 PM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
Older people (and some younger ones) tended to believe in "bosorci" as they called those creatures in my region. They could even point to specific people  that of course,, everybody knew were "bosorci". A "bosorca/bisorca" is, I'd say more like a werewolf: a man or a woman able to turn into an animal, usually a very large cat or dog. Another belief concerned the so-called "vilva", especially "vilva lupilor", a man that, due to the unusual/magic circumstances of his birth was able to control the wolves, talk to them, direct them. But these people were relatively ostracized. IIRC correctly a German (?) made a documentary in the late nineties about such a a man (vilva lupilor) still living on the upper course of Crisul Alb river, in the "Apuseni" mountains which is roughly my region too.

I saw a show about 'moroi' ... those are similar to vampires.. they say they haunt you down and attack your sanity.. there were some villigers (i forgot the name of the village) that seen this types of 'moroi' that can be one of your passed relatives.. they say that they usually come to kill you and take the life out of you... the story goes that in order to escape them and their curse you need the go at their tombs and 12 am take their heart, "macinate" it and drink it.. I heard similar stuff about the vampires that you need to go at 12 AM at their tombs and put a spike into their hearts or something in order to escape their haunting.. i used to hear kiddy stories when i was a child about this, but you know kids :)... P.S I grew up in the city :)
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vampirism and Orthodoxy
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2012, 03:53:55 PM »
They are believed to steal the cows' milk, these "strigoi". That's what they do. Never heard of them sucking blood.

Strigoi are also supposed to drain the life from others which is why I said they are sort of like vampires, but no they don't drink blood. It's more of a spiritual thing. And, in fact, there are other differences like the fact that the dead type of strigoi are actually more like spirits than the physical undead and that they aren't the only type. Some are live and are effectively evil sorcerers/witches. Nonetheless they are about as close to vampires as anything else I've come across in Romanian folklore - that is to say there can be a passing resemblance. Actual vampire legends, however, are more Slav than anything else.

James
Older people (and some younger ones) tended to believe in "bosorci" as they called those creatures in my region. They could even point to specific people  that of course,, everybody knew were "bosorci". A "bosorca/bisorca" is, I'd say more like a werewolf: a man or a woman able to turn into an animal, usually a very large cat or dog. Another belief concerned the so-called "vilva", especially "vilva lupilor", a man that, due to the unusual/magic circumstances of his birth was able to control the wolves, talk to them, direct them. But these people were relatively ostracized. IIRC correctly a German (?) made a documentary in the late nineties about such a a man (vilva lupilor) still living on the upper course of Crisul Alb river, in the "Apuseni" mountains which is roughly my region too.

I saw a show about 'moroi' ... those are similar to vampires.. they say they haunt you down and attack your sanity.. there were some villigers (i forgot the name of the village) that seen this types of 'moroi' that can be one of your passed relatives.. they say that they usually come to kill you and take the life out of you... the story goes that in order to escape them and their curse you need the go at their tombs and 12 am take their heart, "macinate" it and drink it.. I heard similar stuff about the vampires that you need to go at 12 AM at their tombs and put a spike into their hearts or something in order to escape their haunting.. i used to hear kiddy stories when i was a child about this, but you know kids :)... P.S I grew up in the city :)

I always thought that the creatures that hunt you down and attack your sanity were called...."in-laws"  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:.

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)