Author Topic: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES  (Read 3371 times)

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Offline kelfar

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THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« on: December 11, 2007, 01:28:08 AM »
Dear Friends,

The Byzantine solfege for each mode (tone) has been add it to the
website.

http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Modes.html


Any comments are most welcomed.

In Christ,

SBDK

Offline wynd

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 01:39:25 AM »
This is great!

Would you ever consider adding short samples of the eight modes (troparia or something) to your page, so we could hear them in action?

Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 01:42:16 AM »
It is not a bad idea. Give me sometime and I will chant few Troparia and add them to the website.

Best,
SBDK

Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 01:45:48 AM »
love the idea!  Need a breakdown of everything though.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 09:10:18 AM »
It's a good resource.  How easy is it to get a keyboard that is able to be de-tuned as you indicate?
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 12:56:19 PM »
Hello,

Does Neo-Byzantine denote that these are different than the traditional Byzantine Tones? A new modern system?
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Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 01:57:22 PM »
THE NEO-BYZANTINE does not denote the traditional modes.

---------

The Reform of the Music Notations

Chrysanthos of Madytos (ca. 1770-1846), Gregory the Protopsaltis, and Chourmouzios the Archivist were responsible for a much needed reform of the notation of Greek ecclesiastical music.

Their work consisted of simplifying the complex musical symbols.

Their work is a landmark in the history of the Greek church music, since it introduced the system of neo-Byzantine music notation, upon which are based the present-day chants of the Greek Orthodox Church.

The simplification attracted many believers to study the new Byzantine notation.


Offline Fr. George

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 02:45:01 PM »
Hello,

Does Neo-Byzantine denote that these are different than the traditional Byzantine Tones? A new modern system?

As Sdcn Kelfar noted, there was a simplification in "Byzantine" music in the 18th-19th centuries.  It allowed individuals to master the entire musical system in a few years of intense study, versus the decades-long process before the revision.

Well.... The 3 teachers reformed the notation; but no one has reformed the scale distances, which have been debated for centuries before the reforms, and still to this day.  The scales could be considered traditional "Byzantine," while the notes should not be (since the orthographic system is infinitely more simple than it was for centuries).

Depending on one's teacher or school of thought, the distances will be quoted differently.  What Sdcn Kelfar's link points to is the predominant theory on the distances of the notes in each Mode, and is fairly standard in this country.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Athanasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 07:08:29 PM »
Hello,

So this IS THE current Byzantine Modal Notation style? All the Orthodox agree with that?
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 07:20:17 PM »
Hello,

So this IS THE current Byzantine Modal Notation style? All the Orthodox agree with that?

It is the notation style, and the general guidelines for the scales.  All that is needed when attempting to learn the tones is an understanding of the characteristic changes that are unique to each tone - occasional flats or sharps that are used depending on the style within the mode.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Athanasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 07:23:03 PM »
Hello,

It is the notation style, and the general guidelines for the scales.  All that is needed when attempting to learn the tones is an understanding of the characteristic changes that are unique to each tone - occasional flats or sharps that are used depending on the style within the mode.

So the actual scales and modes have remained the same? It's just the method of written notation that has changed?

If so, is it the standard notation in use for all Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics today?
Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

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Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 07:39:49 PM »
As far as I know, the following churces are still using the Byzantine notation in their liturgical services:


1. Antioch (Orthodox and Melkites) - Arabic and Greek
2. Jerusalem - Arabic and Greek
4. Alexandria - Arabic and Greek
5. Bulgaria
6. Romania
7. Greece and Constantinople - Greek
8. Russia (some churches are still using BZ)

The scales and modes have remained the same for the most part.  :)


+SBDK

Offline Athanasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 10:54:57 PM »
Hello,

As far as I know, the following churces are still using the Byzantine notation in their liturgical services:


1. Antioch (Orthodox and Melkites) - Arabic and Greek
2. Jerusalem - Arabic and Greek
4. Alexandria - Arabic and Greek
5. Bulgaria
6. Romania
7. Greece and Constantinople - Greek
8. Russia (some churches are still using BZ)

The scales and modes have remained the same for the most part.  :)


+SBDK

Thanks. Do these Churches have actual books with the chants in notation? Someone had told me once that the cantors had the music pretty much memorized.

Also, does anyone know about the Byzantine Catholic Churches?
Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

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Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 01:35:14 AM »
Yes, each church has its own book in the native language of the land. The churches of Jerusalem and Alexandria both are using books from the church of Antioch.


The Melkites are using the Byzantine notation in their liturgical services.

Offline Anastasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 11:29:43 PM »
Dear Friends,

The Byzantine solfege for each mode (tone) has been add it to the
website.

http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Modes.html


Any comments are most welcomed.

In Christ,

SBDK


I don't see the Enharmonic having a clickable link...is there one?
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Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 11:32:01 PM »
I am working on it... I will post it very soon...

Offline Anastasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 11:56:24 PM »
I am working on it... I will post it very soon...

Thank you for everything you do.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2008, 01:33:03 AM »
Thank you for everything you do.

He's busy engineering the next album by the St. John (of SF) Men's Chorale album which will be commemorating the 1600th anniversary of the repose of St. John Chrysostom (actually, the ROCOR conference we sang at last summer near StL, MO).  THEN, he can fix your link for you.  ;)

Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2008, 02:45:10 PM »
Fr. Dn,

Christ is Risen!

I just completed the Enharmonic scale...

http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Enharmonic.html

Do you think the information is a good start for someone who wants to learn Byzantine chant?




I don't see the Enharmonic having a clickable link...is there one?

Offline Fr. George

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2008, 03:00:01 PM »
Fr. Dn,

Christ is Risen!

I just completed the Enharmonic scale...

http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Enharmonic.html

Do you think the information is a good start for someone who wants to learn Byzantine chant?

Will you in the future be including some of the other relevant scales (e.g. Grave mode Diatonic), or is it your intent to keep the site on the simpler side for those just starting?

I think I will be referring the folks that I'm teaching here to your site, especially for their summertime work (while we're not meeting regularly).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 12:12:18 AM »
Mr. Elisha,

Check this out: http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Enharmonic.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

He's busy engineering the next album by the St. John (of SF) Men's Chorale album which will be commemorating the 1600th anniversary of the repose of St. John Chrysostom (actually, the ROCOR conference we sang at last summer near StL, MO).  THEN, he can fix your link for you.  ;)

Offline Elisha

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2008, 12:37:25 AM »
Mr. Elisha,

Check this out: http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Enharmonic.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D


 ;)  ...and shame on your for not finishing our project first....and I called you back 15 min ago and you haven't returned my call!

Offline kelfar

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2008, 12:48:53 AM »
I will include the Grave Mode Diatonic and ther sub-scales...just give me some time...

Thanks..

Will you in the future be including some of the other relevant scales (e.g. Grave mode Diatonic), or is it your intent to keep the site on the simpler side for those just starting?

I think I will be referring the folks that I'm teaching here to your site, especially for their summertime work (while we're not meeting regularly).
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 02:13:54 AM by kelfar »

Offline Anastasios

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Re: THE NEO-BYZANTINE MODES
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2008, 09:18:01 AM »
Thank you very much, I think this is great!
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