ristos87
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« on: July 07, 2009, 10:31:45 PM » |
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In Genesis 6:3 God says, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”
However, we have people who have lived over 120 years old, I believe the oldest was a lady that was 122 (Jeanne Calment).
I was just wondering. If God assured no one should live over 120, then why did the lady above for example live till 122?
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aserb
asinner
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 11:16:07 PM » |
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OK Brother, You have too much time on your hands!
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Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
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Elisha
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 12:06:02 AM » |
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Why don't you ask God? Seriously - that's your best bet.
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PeterTheAleut
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EXTERMINATE!
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 12:16:58 AM » |
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Why don't you ask God? Seriously - that's your best bet.
I'm in sync with this idea. I'm not sure anyone here could ever know why God so often appears to contradict His own rules, ristos. |
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:17:30 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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stashko
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 12:30:06 AM » |
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In Genesis 6:3 God says, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”
However, we have people who have lived over 120 years old, I believe the oldest was a lady that was 122 (Jeanne Calment).
I was just wondering. If God assured no one should live over 120, then why did the lady above for example live till 122?
That saying the Good die young is true i think,,God promises long life if one honors the parents and kind to animals..Two people in the old testament that are mentioned didn't he extend there lives by adding 15 yrs to their lives ,then after that they had to join there ancestors..God will give Long life, i believe to wicked person because he has no eternal life to look forward to..so he gets one or the other... |
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 ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Anastasios
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 12:49:19 AM » |
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In Genesis 6:3 God says, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”
However, we have people who have lived over 120 years old, I believe the oldest was a lady that was 122 (Jeanne Calment).
I was just wondering. If God assured no one should live over 120, then why did the lady above for example live till 122?
I think the question is, why doesn't everyone live to be 120 then?  In all seriousness, numbers in the Bible often have symbolic meanings, or are generalities. 120 years is about the maximum extent possible for human life, give or take a few. |
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Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.comDisclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons |
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scamandrius
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 01:42:01 AM » |
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^I agree with Fr. Anastasios. This number is meant to be taken metaphorically. You can take or leave this explanation, but both the numbers 12 and 10 were regarded as numbers that emphasized completeness or totality. Multiplying 12 and 10 together, of course, results in 120. I think that what God says here is that the contest between the Spirit of God and man's flesh can last for an eternity and not referring to only 120 years of existence, especially since Adam lived to be 930 years old!
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene http://myorthodoxjourney.blogspot.com/ |
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 02:05:17 AM » |
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^I agree with Fr. Anastasios. This number is meant to be taken metaphorically. You can take or leave this explanation, but both the numbers 12 and 10 were regarded as numbers that emphasized completeness or totality. Multiplying 12 and 10 together, of course, results in 120. I think that what God says here is that the contest between the Spirit of God and man's flesh can last for an eternity and not referring to only 120 years of existence, especially since Adam lived to be 930 years old!
Of course, we do need to note that, according to the Scriptures, a man's average lifespan diminished quite drastically after the Flood from over 900 years to roughly 120 years. |
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Fr James
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 04:06:38 AM » |
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Why does God say no one should live past 120 if people have?
Your question assumes an interpretation that is not in evidence.
Look at the Biblical passage from -another- perspective:
God said that He is fed up with humanity and will allow a period of grace for another 120 years (the time it took to build the Ark) and then comes the flood!
Presto, 120 years later, came the flood.
Pray for me.
James+
P.S. Some orthodox actually -believe- in the Adam to Noah records in the Holy Bible. :-)
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 04:12:57 AM » |
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I agree with Fr. James' take on the verse, which is in accordance with the views of Sts Ephrem the Syrian and Jerome.
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No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.
"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
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Fr James
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 05:34:03 AM » |
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Thank you dear brother, I believe St (blessed) Augustine also in the "City of God" and Lactanius as well as Julius Africanus all spoke to this issue. I would have searched the fathers but have had a big day today and am the laziest of Christ's servants.
Pray for me.
James+
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Dan-Romania
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 05:58:41 AM » |
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Yes I think scamandrius and Fr James said pretty much most that can be said.Those are the two meanings of that phrase first the literall meaning that in 120 years there will come and end to all the people.And than of course the wise interpretation of scamandrius : "Multiplying 12 and 10 together, of course, results in 120. I think that what God says here is that the contest between the Spirit of God and man's flesh can last for an eternity and not referring to only 120 years of existence, especially since Adam lived to be 930 years old!" That also refers of the Holy Spirit living with the people , and the graces received from God , diminuating , untill the tower Babel when the Holy Spirit was more and more censured.That is because the human race ruined and ruined itself more and more and their bodies and departed more and more of God , uniting more and more with the sin , that is why God did not let the Holy Spirit to abide forever in all people , because we are all flesh.It referes more to a deeper metaphorical meaning wich has something to do with the Holy Spirit.
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"I believe because it is impossible"
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AlexanderOfBergamo
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 07:06:23 AM » |
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The 120 years of grace are the best interpretation of this biblical passage. This would also justify the spiritual meaning of the text as a sort of parallel tothe passage of Abraham discussing with God the destiny of Sodom and Gomorrah... In both cases, God decided to destroy everything but allowed for a limitation: he gave mankind the chance to repent and be saved! In the case of the Flood, as it is written in the New Testament, Noah was sent "in the spirit of Christ" to preach repentance before the Deluge, but nobody listened to him; in the case of Sodom, God found no-one was worthy of salvation having refused even the attempts of Lot to make the Sodomites reason... In both cases, the event resulted in a universal destruction of the sinners and in the salvation of the few who listened to God's word (the eight on the Ark and Lot with his daughters in Sodom). So, what's the teaching involved? God always gives you chance to repent... Quote from Exodus 34:6-7 O the Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, patient and of much compassion, and true, Who keepest mercy unto thousands: who takest away iniquity, and wickedness, and sin, and no man of himself is innocent before thee. Who renderest the iniquity of the fathers to the children, and to the grandchildren, unto the third and fourth generation. By his patience, mercy and grace he delayed his judgment until the entire world would be depraved, and yet he still saved those who didn't merit such a punishment! In Christ, Alex PS: It is also a non-sense to think that one and the same author of Genesis might have contradicted himself, since even after the Flood the pre-abrahamitic patriarchs lived some 300 years! |
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"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
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ristos87
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2009, 07:59:00 AM » |
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OK Brother, You have too much time on your hands!
Actually, no. I was laying in bed last night before going to sleep and read this and immediately thought of that lady who lived till 122, so I thought I should question why he says that if people have lived over that. |
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aserb
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2009, 11:40:17 AM » |
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^ OH KAY
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Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
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jnorm888
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2009, 11:56:54 AM » |
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In Genesis 6:3 God says, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”
However, we have people who have lived over 120 years old, I believe the oldest was a lady that was 122 (Jeanne Calment).
I was just wondering. If God assured no one should live over 120, then why did the lady above for example live till 122?
I don't think the text was saying "God assured no one should live over 120". I once believed that view myself when I was raised Baptist long long ago. But if that interpretation was true then Noah and his sons wouldn't of lived as long as they did. So now I see it as the "norm", but there are always exceptions to the norm. Most people don't live that long, but a few are able to live past the age of 120. Jnorm888 |
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:01:05 PM by jnorm888 »
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"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D. http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/ |
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SolEX01
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2009, 02:51:08 PM » |
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Why not post the Greek from the Septuagint?
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AlexanderOfBergamo
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2009, 06:06:53 PM » |
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Just ask: Gen 6:1 καὶ εἶπεν κύριος ὁ θεός Οὐ μὴ καταμείνῃ τὸ πνεῦμά μου ἐν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τούτοις εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα διὰ τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς σάρκας, ἔσονται δὲ αἱ ἡμέραι αὐτῶν ἑκατὸν εἴκοσι ἔτη In Christ, Alex |
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"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
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GammaRay
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2009, 09:47:01 AM » |
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It's not only that woman you mentioned, but Adam, Methuselah, Abraham...everyone.
So it's not a contradiction, but rather an enigma.
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Though I've walked the valley of the shadow of the death, I've fallen not. Not completely. Not yet.
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ristos87
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2009, 02:19:22 PM » |
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I know that also a day to God could be a thousand years to us. So, perhaps 120 years really isn't 120 years..maybe it is 1,200 years instead.
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SolEX01
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2009, 02:29:35 PM » |
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I know that also a day to God could be a thousand years to us. So, perhaps 120 years really isn't 120 years..maybe it is 1,200 years instead. No, it would be .12 days to God.  |
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Dan-Romania
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2009, 03:14:45 PM » |
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It represents the disobeyence of the people , and the ruin of being under the likeness of God . So that is why God says that the days of graces with reference at the flood , will be 120 years and then He will repay for their disobendience , and purify the earth.120 is represantative for disobeyence , likeness and punishment. For example in Juditha 1 , is presented king Nabucodonosor who is not being taken seriously by people , and they are considering him equal with them , and Nabucodonosor choses to revenge with them and he makes everything perish.Than those who remain unite with Nabucodonosor and make a feast of 120 days.120 is the age at wich Moses died , and he did not enter into the "promised land" , for what? for a disobedience.Because he hit the rock with the rod twice when God told him only to say it with the word.It also represents mercy , "hope" , In Jonah 4:11 God says , He has mercy on the city of Ninive wich has 120 000 people.Also in Acts 1, when is mentioned the Church says the 12 apostles where there with Mary , Jesus` mother , and his brother.Wich are again 120.This verse (Genesis 6:3) is full with a lot of spiritual meaning as far as I know.Putting this head to head and anything else that can be found , and we will maybe figured out exactly what it means.
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"I believe because it is impossible"
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jckstraw72
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2009, 03:33:08 PM » |
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Fr. James is correct and in accord with the Fathers
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