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Author Topic: Taking Intro to the Bible, have to read "Misquoting Jesus"... suggestions?  (Read 1174 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 06, 2012, 08:48:14 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us) based on what had been done to Christians and Jews all the way from Muhammad to today. So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 08:59:27 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 09:07:29 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocket.
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 09:07:43 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 09:10:05 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocket.
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.

I know how you feel. I'm sorry that you had to spend money on that book. I hope that you are able to not offend your professor and use what 2,000 years of T(t)radition has taught us.
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 09:11:17 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocket.
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.

I know how you feel. I'm sorry that you had to spend money on that book. I hope that you are able to not offend your professor and use what 2,000 years of T(t)radition has taught us.

Yeah, me too. There may be problems if she tries to portray him as being right, etc... But its okay if she makes sure these students realize he is very bias and kinda twists some of those facts.
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 09:15:01 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocket.
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.

If it makes you feel any better, his royalty is probably only about 12-15% Smiley

I looked the book up on my local library's page and I can get it through inter-library loan. I'm going to request it tomorrow, and I'll read through and see if anything comes to mind as far as responding to him.
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 09:16:27 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocket.
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.

I know how you feel. I'm sorry that you had to spend money on that book. I hope that you are able to not offend your professor and use what 2,000 years of T(t)radition has taught us.

Yeah, me too. There may be problems if she tries to portray him as being right, etc... But its okay if she makes sure these students realize he is very bias and kinda twists some of those facts.

kinda twists the facts? understatement  Grin

I'm glad he wont be making that much off of the sales  Cheesy
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 09:21:04 PM »

There is a site that I will be using quite often though...

http://ehrmanproject.com/

A group of (what I consider real) New Testament scholars and professors that are clarifying and refuting Ehrman's twisted books and accusations.
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 09:26:03 PM »

There is a site that I will be using quite often though...

http://ehrmanproject.com/

A group of (what I consider real) New Testament scholars and professors that are clarifying and refuting Ehrman's twisted books and accusations.

took a quick peek at the site, seems good. Again, I wish you the best!
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 10:33:34 PM »

12 days of Christmas, sort of

Skip ahead to 7:49 for Day 11 and the Bart Ehrman version.
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 01:07:12 AM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

Thank you! I had someone else also tell me to just get it from the library, but I've already ordered it. It was only $10 but frustratingly its still $10 that's going into his pocketfew .
It feels like if I were to give money to Stalin, Julian the Apostate or someone like that who is trying (in vain) to defeat Christianity.

Actually, he'll propbably only see a few cents that. The rest goes to the middle men.
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 01:08:51 AM »

If the professor chose such a book for a serious class, she deserves to be offended.
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 07:09:18 AM »

I have never heard about this book. What is it about?
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 10:44:45 AM »

I agree with Shanghaiski. For an intro to religion class, this was probably not the best choice for a reading. Then again, this is far from the first time that such a class was essentially used as an excuse to discredit Christianity and exonerate the God-damned blasphemy of Muhammad. Tfeh. Just get through it, stick to your principles as best you can, and do not be afraid to offend the workers of iniquity with the truth.

While it is not written by Orthodox writers, I have heard good things from both Orthodox and non-Orthodox friends about Kostenburger and Kruger's The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity. I hope to begin reading it in earnest myself once I finish some other things I'm reading now. I read a chapter or two a while ago and it seems to be a solid refutation of Ehrman and his predecessors (he is one of a long line pushing certain ideas; I'm kind of shocked that people aren't more critical of him, given the well-trodden ground he is somehow being praised for "revealing", mostly to people who don't know a thing about Christianity to begin with. Ho hum.)
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 11:14:39 AM »

I have never heard about this book. What is it about?

Bart Ehrman decided that there was so much error transmission in scripture that none of it could be relied upon. Essentially everyone else in the field thinks he went off his rocker on that one. Here are two blog posts explaining some of the issues and with links to scholarly analyses. The short form response is this: yes, there is a lot of textual variation, but almost all of it consists of obvious misprints or ambiguous ways of writing the same text. There are few cases where there is an actually ambiguous passage, and even then the choice between readings almost never has any import for a Christian reader. Modern English translations with critical apparatus (say, a good edition of the RSV or NRSV, and I think even some editions of the NIV do it) will have plentiful footnote indicating where there are significant differences between ancient texts, and in the case of the OT they will say when they had to go into other ancient translations because the Hebrew doesn't make sense. You'll see a fair number of these in 1 Samuel, but in most books they aren't that common.
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2012, 11:49:51 AM »

I have never heard about this book. What is it about?

Bart Ehrman decided that there was so much error transmission in scripture that none of it could be relied upon. Essentially everyone else in the field thinks he went off his rocker on that one. Here are two blog posts explaining some of the issues and with links to scholarly analyses. The short form response is this: yes, there is a lot of textual variation, but almost all of it consists of obvious misprints or ambiguous ways of writing the same text. There are few cases where there is an actually ambiguous passage, and even then the choice between readings almost never has any import for a Christian reader. Modern English translations with critical apparatus (say, a good edition of the RSV or NRSV, and I think even some editions of the NIV do it) will have plentiful footnote indicating where there are significant differences between ancient texts, and in the case of the OT they will say when they had to go into other ancient translations because the Hebrew doesn't make sense. You'll see a fair number of these in 1 Samuel, but in most books they aren't that common.

Thank you
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2012, 02:25:10 PM »

Really that wretched book?

Check this: http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2006/03/misanalyzing-text-criticism-bart.html
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2012, 02:25:10 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

I'm going to play devil's advocate. What if the Early Church Fathers edited, misconstrued, distorted the NT texts in order to fit their own Church Tradition?
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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2012, 03:53:51 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I think you're looking at it all wrong.  Too much doom and gloom in your outlook.  Have a bit more fun with it Smiley

I took a Religion vs Science comparative religion class at university, and it obviously had an atheist slant both in the class and the instructor, but folks surprisingly gave deep theological discussions a lot more room then I would have expected and in our lectures and in-class discussions and seminars we had some very deep, profoundly moving talks about the nature and reality of God and religion and faith and also science and fact and politics.  I was impressed to say the least.  Sure, we had to read some terribly trashy Dawkins and Hitchens, those guys are like a 14 year old mood-swing temper tantrum combined with a woe-is-me-because-I-don't-get-it pity party, but meh, so what?

Even Dawkins sometimes makes good points, like a lot of Christian morality is pseudo-morality when folks practice morality strictly in fear of Divine punishment, and that is true.  These atheists may not be very sophisticated (in fact I've read more convincing arguments for atheism in Saint Augustine then these guys Wink ) but they still ask challenging questions that move our faith.  We NEED to be asking ourselves these questions, and let the Mystery of God reveal the answers and guide our faith closer towards Him. 

Look at the glass half full, you can really take on the challenge and find productive, friendly, and mutually  respectful (i.e., be NICE) ways to discuss and counter any atheist argument, and in the meantime your own faith and sense of awareness will grow, and maybe some others in the class will too, like Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:21-24.

stay blessed,
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2012, 05:26:20 PM »

I'm going to play devil's advocate. What if the Early Church Fathers edited, misconstrued, distorted the NT texts in order to fit their own Church Tradition

How can you tell they did?
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2012, 07:08:54 PM »

I second Ben Witherington III's review (Witherington is a prolific author and professor at Asbury Seminary in Lexington KY). Dan Wallace cited above is also OK on textual criticism but less so on other issues IMO (he hails from conservative Dispensationalist Dallas Theological Seminary).

I would also recommend Metzger's A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament which is a companion volume to the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament textual apparatus (of textual variants), covering all of the more major variants in NT order, how and why the UBS textual critical committee made the decisions which they did of which readings made it into the UBS GNT and with what probability etc. The introduction beginning on p. xv contains a much more positive assessment of the whole issue than Ehrman's.

While it is not written by Orthodox writers, I have heard good things from both Orthodox and non-Orthodox friends about Kostenburger and Kruger's The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity. I hope to begin reading it in earnest myself once I finish some other things I'm reading now. I read a chapter or two a while ago and it seems to be a solid refutation of Ehrman and his predecessors (he is one of a long line pushing certain ideas; I'm kind of shocked that people aren't more critical of him, given the well-trodden ground he is somehow being praised for "revealing", mostly to people who don't know a thing about Christianity to begin with. Ho hum.)
I wrote a critique of Ehrman's restatement of the so-called Bauer Thesis in Lost Christianities some years ago which is up here: http://katachriston.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/bart-ehrmans-lost-christianities-a-critique-part-1/  Thomas A. Robinson's book The Bauer Thesis Examined: The Geography of Heresy in the Early Christian Church (Lewiston: Mellen Press) which was originally published in 1988 is still one of the most valuable critiques of this thesis IMO and perfectly suited as contra Pagels, Ehrman, et al who do not really add much original when representing Bauer's arguments on early diversity.
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2012, 07:35:58 PM »

Unfortunately I've learned recently I have to buy Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" for my Intro to Religion class this semester. Needless to say, I'll probably burn it after the semester is done, but I was wondering what suggestions you all have for me while I have to read it and how to approach it?

Last time I had a class with this teacher, I may have upset her because in my final essay, I gently pointed out that I still believed Islam to be a violent faith (despite what she had tried to teach us). So I was hoping there is some way I can approach this so that I don't directly offend her, but stick to my Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman.

First off, don't waste your money buying the book. I have a copy that I will gladly email you (PM me if you want). And stick to your Orthodox beliefs and refute Ehrman by using the Early Church Fathers, Church Tradition, and even some modern writers. Also, remember that Google is your friend; pretty much any research that you want has already been done for you.

I'm going to play devil's advocate. What if the Early Church Fathers edited, misconstrued, distorted the NT texts in order to fit their own Church Tradition?
Uh, they did. What's the big deal? Obviously I wouldn't use words like "misconstrued" to describe it, though, although individual fathers certainly misconstrued things.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:37:08 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2012, 08:53:08 PM »

If I were you, and there's still time to switch classes, I'd see if any other professor is teaching the same course and has open seats.
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2012, 10:15:08 AM »

The subtext of all of this is that even within the world of textual criticism (where Ehrman is coming from) there is plenty of material to hammer on Ehrman's thesis, so if your professor is honest, you should be able to score points by bringing these people to bear.
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