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Author Topic: Sermons of Orthodox and Protestants  (Read 1436 times) Average Rating: 0
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andrewlya
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2014, 06:46:50 PM »

...but I just love debating the Bible..

I think I begin to see the problem. Although this may just be a slip of the tongue, so to speak!

First of all, debating is not discussing. (Nor is study speculation as someone else pointed out.)

Some people don't feel comfortable debating. Some may not feel the need to speculate.

I have been in Bible studies (as a Protestant) where everyone just trotted out their own pet interpretations without regard to what the text said, much less how the Church and the Fathers understood it. It was, I felt, pretty much a colossal waste of time.

And it's really not fair to assume that, just because someone may not wish to debate the Bible with you, that they never pick it up at home.
So, if I wanted to discuss a Bible with Orthodox Christians where do I go?
I go on this forum, but it would be nice to have study groups etc

Have you talked to any Orthodox priests? First of all, to see if there are any Bible studies and secondly to see if there would be any interest?
There are classes after the Sunday services for little kids, but there are not for adults, unless I could ask for private lessons with a priest...

Have you talked to the priest specifically about Bible study and asked if there would be any interest in having one? At any time.
I have not to tell the truth,I will ask. In the past we had a session called The Way I think where we watched videos but we did not go much into details the way Protestants do. Could it be that Orthodox people are afraid of going deep into interpretations of the verses in case they don't know the answer?
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« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2014, 11:06:19 AM »

It just seems that Orthodox/Catholic denomination is mainly about rituals and singing and Bible studying is secondary.It seems that people come to Church participate in the service, ritual, singing and Gospel reading which is fine but when at home they probably don't pick up their Bible to read , whereas in Protestants Bible studying is highly encouraged which I really like.

Orthodoxy is "mainly about" the Eucharist, which for its first 1,500 years was what Christianity was "mainly about." Here's why:

Not until the arrival of the Gutenberg Bible (200 bibles published)  in the 1400s did the entire world have more than about 500 copies of the Bible, with a worldwide population of about 350 million and an illiteracy rate of perhaps 97 percent. Protestantism's fetish for the individual Bible reading is a relatively recent innovation, entirely the product of printing press technology. It has NOT worked out well: what with 30,000 polarized Protestant denominations and new ones springing up every day (just the recent dismemberment of the Mars Hill Church is going to create 15 brand new denominations, all in heated and vehement disagreement with each other about what the Bible means). The fragmentation of Christianity dramatically-escalated with the early 1800's advent of modern-day machine printing presses, which caused the eruption of Fundamentalism in the 1920's, that bastard child of science and biblical literalism.
What was it, that promise of Sola Scriptura, anyway? Wasn't it: "Anyone reading the Bible will arrive at the same and correct doctrine and that the Bible is self-explanator :Dy?"

OUUCH. PAIN.
Now I have to repent by reconsidering my 5 years of "Bible Study" with some Protestant guy friend group! Although since converting to Orthodoxy they give me a lot more talk time but all the while it is becoming more difficult to listen to them stumble through The Book and pray, so I am grateful for not becoming a martyr while there. Of course one vet wants to know where we keep the Kalashnikovs  Grin
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« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2014, 11:15:30 AM »

...but we did not go much into details the way Protestants do. Could it be that Orthodox people are afraid of going deep into interpretations of the verses in case they don't know the answer?

Nope. It's because they already know the answers!  Wink

Protestants are still trying to figure out what they believe!

But seriously, there's quite a difference between fruitful and thoughtful Bible study and the speculation and airing of pet theories which passes for Bible study in many Protestant groups.

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« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2014, 11:24:17 AM »


Nope. It's because they already know the answers!  Wink

Protestants are still trying to figure out what they believe!

But seriously, there's quite a difference between fruitful and thoughtful Bible study and the speculation and airing of pet theories which passes for Bible study in many Protestant groups.

Protestant Bible study in many respects resembles a dog chasing its own tail. And the dog and Protestants have no idea what they would do if they actually "caught" it. You just cannot get past the fact that Protestantism is fundamentally-based on the extraordinarily-ridiculous and ahistorical ideology of an immediate Apostasy. There are absolutely no historical facts that support such a bizarre ideology. And no amount of Bible study is going to cure that fundamental flaw. 
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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2014, 11:27:28 AM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?
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« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2014, 12:14:13 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?



I've never been to a Protestant Bible study once in my life and I don't intend to start.  Cheesy
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« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2014, 12:41:45 PM »


Nope. It's because they already know the answers!  Wink

Protestants are still trying to figure out what they believe!

But seriously, there's quite a difference between fruitful and thoughtful Bible study and the speculation and airing of pet theories which passes for Bible study in many Protestant groups.

Protestant Bible study in many respects resembles a dog chasing its own tail. And the dog and Protestants have no idea what they would do if they actually "caught" it. You just cannot get past the fact that Protestantism is fundamentally-based on the extraordinarily-ridiculous and ahistorical ideology of an immediate Apostasy. There are absolutely no historical facts that support such a bizarre ideology. And no amount of Bible study is going to cure that fundamental flaw. 

ROFL!
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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2014, 12:47:51 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?

No. Why would I? I'm willing to concede that it is theoretically possible for good Protestant Bible study groups to exist. That has not been my experience. Rather than truly considering the text and context, most that I have been to consist solely of other peoples' opinions and pet notions. Which don't interest me. That sort of Scriptural speculation, divorced from the Faith once given to the Apostles and the beliefs and teachings of the Church, is a waste of time.

(climbs down off soapbox)
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« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2014, 01:27:43 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?

No. Why would I? I'm willing to concede that it is theoretically possible for good Protestant Bible study groups to exist. That has not been my experience. Rather than truly considering the text and context, most that I have been to consist solely of other peoples' opinions and pet notions. Which don't interest me. That sort of Scriptural speculation, divorced from the Faith once given to the Apostles and the beliefs and teachings of the Church, is a waste of time.

(climbs down off soapbox)

Protestantism is a self-inflicted mortal wound that tries to "heal itself" with the same weapon that caused the injury to begin with. This isn't about Bible study. Protestant Bible study assumes that First Generation Christians apostatized and just in the nick of time 1,500 years later, a leather bound KJV version of the Bible fell out of the sky. Martin Luther and Isaac Newton had eerily similar experiences: Newton was hit on the head by an apple falling out of a tree, and discovered gravity. Luther was hit on the head by that Bible falling out of the sky, and discovered Protestantism. Luther was mad about the corrupt practices of indulgences (but not incorrupt indulgences). So in turn, Zwingli eliminated the Real Presence from the Eucharist. The Reformers were mad about Papal abuse of Power. So every person became their own Pope, and they have been abusing the Bible for 500 years, instead.  

About those rotten, Bible-rejecting apostatizing Early Christians who so eagerly embraced unbiblical Pagan practices while the Apostles were still alive......I can now repudiate their gross, cowardly errors by reading my Bible from the magnificent comfort of my Easy-Boy Recliner.









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« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2014, 02:00:26 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?
I attend one off and on depending on the topic. Right now they are doing some "Soul Detox" series which has all the makings of some third rate buy-the-book-and-you-will-be-an-awesome-Christian feel to it. They had one a while back about how to be a good parent. I kinda liked that one. I attend because I know the people there and I try to give my answers from an Orthodox perspective of the questions that are posed.  It probably kind of a waste of time to be honest, but I don't really have anything else to do on my Wednesday lunch break, so I do that.
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« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2014, 02:25:26 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?

Yours is an honest question, amid the noise, erudition, derision, pontification and righteous indignation expressed here.
I go simply because I went to that church and made friends over the 25 year period prior to finding The True Church.
So, friends and acquaintances were made, feeding the homeless, clothing and other charitable works were done with same with things
changing over time. Expressing the love for those Protestant friends by visiting the widows(er), shut ins, sick, old & infirmed and reading The Bible
with them allows an Orthodox view to be slowly poured into those vessels. The study itself does the same thing. Simply not eating during the men's
study on Friday mornings has caused a difference! And then when given the Orthodox expression, well...the Spirit has lead three of them to come to my Temple with two of them showing signs.....
Besides, I cheat.....at other times during other meals I will eat what is served without mentioning the fast. Should I confess that I go to the enemy eating and thus break the fast?
Good reason to reach out to Protestants, as tough as it may be! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2014, 02:34:44 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?

Yours is an honest question, amid the noise, erudition, derision, pontification and righteous indignation expressed here.
I go simply because I went to that church and made friends over the 25 year period prior to finding The True Church.
So, friends and acquaintances were made, feeding the homeless, clothing and other charitable works were done with same with things
changing over time. Expressing the love for those Protestant friends by visiting the widows(er), shut ins, sick, old & infirmed and reading The Bible
with them allows an Orthodox view to be slowly poured into those vessels. The study itself does the same thing. Simply not eating during the men's
study on Friday mornings has caused a difference! And then when given the Orthodox expression, well...the Spirit has lead three of them to come to my Temple with two of them showing signs.....
Besides, I cheat.....at other times during other meals I will eat what is served without mentioning the fast. Should I confess that I go to the enemy eating and thus break the fast?
Good reason to reach out to Protestants, as tough as it may be! Roll Eyes

Thank you for that answer, it was heartfelt and genuine. And we are to eat that which is put before us in hospitality lest we embarrass our hosts or puff up ourselves.
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« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2014, 03:44:39 PM »

Besides, I cheat.....at other times during other meals I will eat what is served without mentioning the fast. Should I confess that I go to the enemy eating and thus break the fast?

Only if your true reason for going is because they are serving cheeseburgers.  Wink
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« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2014, 03:46:35 PM »

Protestant Bible study assumes that First Generation Christians apostatized and just in the nick of time 1,500 years later, a leather bound KJV version of the Bible fell out of the sky. Martin Luther and Isaac Newton had eerily similar experiences: Newton was hit on the head by an apple falling out of a tree, and discovered gravity. Luther was hit on the head by that Bible falling out of the sky, and discovered Protestantism.

That's twice today you've made me laugh out loud!
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« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2014, 05:55:04 PM »

Besides, I cheat.....at other times during other meals I will eat what is served without mentioning the fast. Should I confess that I go to the enemy eating and thus break the fast?

Only if your true reason for going is because they are serving cheeseburgers.  Wink

Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2014, 06:23:52 PM »

Out of curiosity, do any of you who are posting who are Orthodox continue to attend Protestant Bible study groups? If so, why?
I have been attending Anglican study lessons because I really want to have in depth discussion about Christianity...unfortunately, in my Orthodox Chruch there are no such classes or enough sermons on Bible teaching..I don't always agree with their views and I do send across my Orthodox views i.e. on Salvation for example..
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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2014, 12:45:39 PM »

I have been away and have not been following this thread, so maybe what I say here has already been said. As a Baptist pastor for some years, and church member for even more, I have often led Bible studies on mid-week evenings, and I have always tried to make them discussional. It seems to me that, as one given the task of teaching the flock, I can do that better if I find out what they know, don't know, think, are confused by, &c..

Someone posted a few lines up that we Protestants are still trying to figure out what we believe. I think for many "ordinary" Christians who faithfully worship week by week in whatever church, this is partly true. They may be sure of their faith in Christ, but there are doubts, questions, muddled thinking, half-remembered truths and so on about many aspects of The Faith, and a Bible study in which each can ask and contribute, if sensitively led, can be a rich blessing to all who come, including any who never speak but only listen.

I have particularly enjoyed getting into lesser-known books, like Obadiah or Nahum, which people often shy away from in their personal reading, and which can edify the believer.
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2014, 12:58:40 PM »

I have been away and have not been following this thread, so maybe what I say here has already been said. As a Baptist pastor for some years, and church member for even more, I have often led Bible studies on mid-week evenings, and I have always tried to make them discussional. It seems to me that, as one given the task of teaching the flock, I can do that better if I find out what they know, don't know, think, are confused by, &c..

Someone posted a few lines up that we Protestants are still trying to figure out what we believe. I think for many "ordinary" Christians who faithfully worship week by week in whatever church, this is partly true. They may be sure of their faith in Christ, but there are doubts, questions, muddled thinking, half-remembered truths and so on about many aspects of The Faith, and a Bible study in which each can ask and contribute, if sensitively led, can be a rich blessing to all who come, including any who never speak but only listen.

I have particularly enjoyed getting into lesser-known books, like Obadiah or Nahum, which people often shy away from in their personal reading, and which can edify the believer.

I wanted to add and you reminded me, that in my experience of hearing live Protestant ministers speak and preach either in their own church for regular or holiday services or at ecumenical gatherings, that the living, up close and personal Protestant pastor bears little resemblance either in style or in substance to the stereotypical images of television evangelists or pop culture ministers that usually pops into the minds of us non-Protestant Christians who do not come from a Protestant background .
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2014, 01:12:07 PM »

the living, up close and personal Protestant pastor bears little resemblance either in style or in substance to the stereotypical images of television evangelists or pop culture ministers

Whew! That's a mercy.
 Wink
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« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2014, 01:30:18 PM »

the living, up close and personal Protestant pastor bears little resemblance either in style or in substance to the stereotypical images of television evangelists or pop culture ministers

Whew! That's a mercy.
 Wink

Nor do Orthodox clergy approximate the Tsar's personal shamin, Rasputin.  Wink
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« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2014, 01:53:56 PM »

I have been away and have not been following this thread, so maybe what I say here has already been said. As a Baptist pastor for some years, and church member for even more, I have often led Bible studies on mid-week evenings, and I have always tried to make them discussional. It seems to me that, as one given the task of teaching the flock, I can do that better if I find out what they know, don't know, think, are confused by, &c..

Someone posted a few lines up that we Protestants are still trying to figure out what we believe. I think for many "ordinary" Christians who faithfully worship week by week in whatever church, this is partly true. They may be sure of their faith in Christ, but there are doubts, questions, muddled thinking, half-remembered truths and so on about many aspects of The Faith, and a Bible study in which each can ask and contribute, if sensitively led, can be a rich blessing to all who come, including any who never speak but only listen.

I have particularly enjoyed getting into lesser-known books, like Obadiah or Nahum, which people often shy away from in their personal reading, and which can edify the believer.
The large difference that I see between Orthodox and Protestants of all stripes is that Orthodox tend to focus on worship and Protestants tend to focus on education. If you go to an Orthodox Church, you have  1 1/2 hours of solid prayers and hymns of worship. If you have a sermon, it is probably about 10 minutes. If you go to a Protestant church, there is usually 4-6 songs "to prepare you for worship" and then a 45 minute sermon where the pastor provides teaching in accordance with his respective belief system. As a result, it seems like there ends up being a lot of Orthodox who may not know all the teachings of the Church, but do know worship and a lot of Protestants that know alot about what they believe, but have no idea how to actually worship God.
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« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2014, 02:16:19 PM »

The large difference that I see between Orthodox and Protestants of all stripes is that Orthodox tend to focus on worship and Protestants tend to focus on education. If you go to an Orthodox Church, you have  1 1/2 hours of solid prayers and hymns of worship. If you have a sermon, it is probably about 10 minutes. If you go to a Protestant church, there is usually 4-6 songs "to prepare you for worship" and then a 45 minute sermon where the pastor provides teaching in accordance with his respective belief system. As a result, it seems like there ends up being a lot of Orthodox who may not know all the teachings of the Church, but do know worship and a lot of Protestants that know alot about what they believe, but have no idea how to actually worship God.

There are no doubt many exceptions, and degrees of exception, but that seems a fairly perceptive description.
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« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2014, 02:21:36 PM »

The large difference that I see between Orthodox and Protestants of all stripes is that Orthodox tend to focus on worship and Protestants tend to focus on education. If you go to an Orthodox Church, you have  1 1/2 hours of solid prayers and hymns of worship. If you have a sermon, it is probably about 10 minutes. If you go to a Protestant church, there is usually 4-6 songs "to prepare you for worship" and then a 45 minute sermon where the pastor provides teaching in accordance with his respective belief system. As a result, it seems like there ends up being a lot of Orthodox who may not know all the teachings of the Church, but do know worship and a lot of Protestants that know alot about what they believe, but have no idea how to actually worship God.

There are no doubt many exceptions, and degrees of exception, but that seems a fairly perceptive description.

10 minutes? Not at my church...try about at least 25 after the Gospel and a 'talk' that goes on for another 20 right before the Dismissal...
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« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2014, 02:34:34 PM »

The large difference that I see between Orthodox and Protestants of all stripes is that Orthodox tend to focus on worship and Protestants tend to focus on education. If you go to an Orthodox Church, you have  1 1/2 hours of solid prayers and hymns of worship. If you have a sermon, it is probably about 10 minutes. If you go to a Protestant church, there is usually 4-6 songs "to prepare you for worship" and then a 45 minute sermon where the pastor provides teaching in accordance with his respective belief system. As a result, it seems like there ends up being a lot of Orthodox who may not know all the teachings of the Church, but do know worship and a lot of Protestants that know alot about what they believe, but have no idea how to actually worship God.

There are no doubt many exceptions, and degrees of exception, but that seems a fairly perceptive description.

10 minutes? Not at my church...try about at least 25 after the Gospel and a 'talk' that goes on for another 20 right before the Dismissal...
You guys must be the Uber-Orthodox!  Tongue
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« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2014, 02:37:44 PM »

The large difference that I see between Orthodox and Protestants of all stripes is that Orthodox tend to focus on worship and Protestants tend to focus on education. If you go to an Orthodox Church, you have  1 1/2 hours of solid prayers and hymns of worship. If you have a sermon, it is probably about 10 minutes. If you go to a Protestant church, there is usually 4-6 songs "to prepare you for worship" and then a 45 minute sermon where the pastor provides teaching in accordance with his respective belief system. As a result, it seems like there ends up being a lot of Orthodox who may not know all the teachings of the Church, but do know worship and a lot of Protestants that know alot about what they believe, but have no idea how to actually worship God.

There are no doubt many exceptions, and degrees of exception, but that seems a fairly perceptive description.

10 minutes? Not at my church...try about at least 25 after the Gospel and a 'talk' that goes on for another 20 right before the Dismissal...
You guys must be the Uber-Orthodox!  Tongue

Nah, just long winded...   Wink
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