Author Topic: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin  (Read 839 times)

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Offline Agabus

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Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« on: August 18, 2015, 02:48:10 PM »
On the baptist side, I estimate about 12 Russian, Ukrainian and mixed Slav (including Belarusian, Moldavian) Baptists Churches. I have looked at some to make sure that these churches do not have two names. I haven't found any yet. Many websites are Russian first or only. Some of these churches appear to be large.
I know that Russian baptists often advertise at Russian cathedrals and make a public show, and speak to people around there.

I wonder if the Russian Orthodox in the area would be interested in such a thing, themselves, within decency.
As the article points out, there are also a lot of Slavic Pentecostals (not just Baptists) in the region.
On a recent trip to Hot Springs, Ark., I did a double take when I saw a Romanian Pentecostal church sign. It's a city of 35,000 that until recently had four Orthodox churches — two Serbian, one Greek and an Antiochian WRO-turned-ER. (The Antiochians have closed down in the last couple of years, as have — I am told — the Greeks.)

Is there anything being done on the ground to bring these folks back into the fold?
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 02:59:26 PM »
There are Romanian Pentecostals all over the Ozarks. It's kind of a holy land for them, as the Assemblies of God and many other Pentecostal movements are based here. I drive past a Romanian Pentecostal church on my way to the Orthodox church every week.

I've often thought about just walking in and talking to the pastor sometime just to have a conversation about Orthodoxy and their honest perceptions of it, maybe attempting to clear up any misunderstandings, but mainly just trying to understand their own genesis as a sect and the reasons for the separation.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 02:59:48 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 03:07:02 PM »
has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 03:59:59 PM »
Mental illness.   ;)
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 05:26:05 PM »
has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o

There are tons of good reasons for anyone familiar with the way Orthodoxy works in some parts of the world. Overweight rich clergy riding around in their Mercedes with $100,000 watches while their flocks scrape together a living and still donate to build beautiful churches. Not understanding anything being prayed or read in the churches because of the use of archaic languages that are nearly if not totally dead. Almost nonexistent catechesis and rampant superstition. The charitable outreach of Protestant missionaries and the hope of a better life that can bring with it (education, food, prayer support without financial motivation required [i.e. no simony for sacraments]), etc. Church administration being controlled by the state and then being used to control the people. There are lots of good reasons to leave.

Try talking to a destitute peasant about church fathers and church history and such versus a better life and see how many care. I suspect not many. It's mainly fidelity to the traditions of their ancestors that keep most in the church. And that's not a bad thing.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 05:27:07 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline augustin717

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 05:27:28 PM »
Being orthodox at least where I grew up basically meant one would curse like a sailor and drink like one plus a few other things of the sort. On the other hand the evangelicals tended to be sickly pious.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 06:08:43 PM »
There are Romanian Pentecostals all over the Ozarks. It's kind of a holy land for them, as the Assemblies of God and many other Pentecostal movements are based here. I drive past a Romanian Pentecostal church on my way to the Orthodox church every week.

I've often thought about just walking in and talking to the pastor sometime just to have a conversation about Orthodoxy and their honest perceptions of it, maybe attempting to clear up any misunderstandings, but mainly just trying to understand their own genesis as a sect and the reasons for the separation.
They wouldn't know. They have fully gone into full blown Protestant ahistory (btw, another good place for that is the FB Group "Apologetics: Defending the Faith").


The great numbers of Romanian Pentecostals etc. is because Ceausescu let them out to prove he respected human rights, and got to keep his most favored trading status. Thus until his fall, the majority of Romanian immigrants post WWII were Protestants, and then the ensuing family reunification, etc.

I remember arguing with Romanian Baptists and Pentacostals. They furiously denied that, and shut up only after I pointed out that they call themselves Baptistii and Pentecostalii-following the English words, and not "Botezeanii" nor "Rusulianii" based on the Romanian words for baptism ("Botez") and Pentecost ("Rusalii")-that utterly perplexed them.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2015, 06:11:38 PM »
Mental illness.   ;)
When I was working in a psych hospital, there was a study that showed that Pentecostals are the heaviest users of psych services (I don't remember the exact number, but it was very large-30% or so). The unanswered question was whether Pentecostalism had caused their problems, or if it attracted people with problems, or a mixture of both.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2015, 06:13:02 PM »
^ many would know as they have personal memories about exiting the Orthodox Church . Perhaps the second or third generations would be just ahistorical.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 06:21:39 PM »
Being orthodox at least where I grew up basically meant one would curse like a sailor and drink like one plus a few other things of the sort. On the other hand the evangelicals tended to be sickly pious.
Quote
wrong side of the tracks
The less desirable part of town. In many 19th- and early-20th-century America, railroad tracks divided a city or town. On one side was the middle- and upper-class residential and commercial area. On the other were factories and residential shacks and tenements. Since residents of the former made class distinctions and applied appropriate language, anyone from the other part of town came from the wrong side of the tracks.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/wrong+side+of+the+tracks
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 06:23:43 PM »
^ many would know as they have personal memories about exiting the Orthodox Church . Perhaps the second or third generations would be just ahistorical.
the ones I met (and I met many) even the elderly were born into the sect. The only ones who had any memories about existing the Orthodox Church were those who straddled the exit, i.e. criticized the Church but didn't make the break and graft themselves into a sect.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 06:24:58 PM »
Being orthodox at least where I grew up basically meant one would curse like a sailor and drink like one plus a few other things of the sort. On the other hand the evangelicals tended to be sickly pious.
Is there no piety left in Orthodox Romania? or are you just referencing your specific surroundings?
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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 06:25:33 PM »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 06:31:52 PM »
Being orthodox at least where I grew up basically meant one would curse like a sailor and drink like one plus a few other things of the sort. On the other hand the evangelicals tended to be sickly pious.
Is there no piety left in Orthodox Romania? or are you just referencing your specific surroundings?
In the age of the internet there is a surplus of piety. But at least in certain regions that didn't seem to be tha case. Many orthodox inclined to showing off  piety either left for Protestant sects or created their own little churches inside the official church . It certainly wasn't the norm to read the bible and take certain injunctions their in seriously. Dynamics have changed a lot especially after '89 . It seems to me that these days Romanian  orthodox don't leave for evangelical groups that much anymore ( I read the baptists are closing down churches btw) , at the same time new foreign styles of piety became more visible inside the official church. So I guess it's easier now to do as you please. Either continue the earlier tradition and be fairly lackasiidical or jump onto whatever neopalamite/ elder sects are there.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 06:36:44 PM by augustin717 »

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 07:07:27 PM »
Being orthodox at least where I grew up basically meant one would curse like a sailor and drink like one plus a few other things of the sort. On the other hand the evangelicals tended to be sickly pious.
Is there no piety left in Orthodox Romania? or are you just referencing your specific surroundings?
In the age of the internet there is a surplus of piety. But at least in certain regions that didn't seem to be tha case. Many orthodox inclined to showing off  piety either left for Protestant sects or created their own little churches inside the official church . It certainly wasn't the norm to read the bible and take certain injunctions their in seriously. Dynamics have changed a lot especially after '89 . It seems to me that these days Romanian  orthodox don't leave for evangelical groups that much anymore ( I read the baptists are closing down churches btw) , at the same time new foreign styles of piety became more visible inside the official church. So I guess it's easier now to do as you please. Either continue the earlier tradition and be fairly lackasiidical or jump onto whatever neopalamite/ elder sects are there.
Interesting. Romania has always seemed like a rather interesting place. Back when I was in high school, I remember our Baptist church really making a push for missions there. Back then, I had no clue about Orthodoxy, so I had always assumed they were just all godless pagans. It is disturbing to note now that I've gone "to the other side" the cultural damage that seems to accompany such missions.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2015, 07:55:58 PM »
has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o

There are tons of good reasons for anyone familiar with the way Orthodoxy works in some parts of the world. Overweight rich clergy riding around in their Mercedes with $100,000 watches while their flocks scrape together a living and still donate to build beautiful churches. Not understanding anything being prayed or read in the churches because of the use of archaic languages that are nearly if not totally dead. Almost nonexistent catechesis and rampant superstition. The charitable outreach of Protestant missionaries and the hope of a better life that can bring with it (education, food, prayer support without financial motivation required [i.e. no simony for sacraments]), etc. Church administration being controlled by the state and then being used to control the people. There are lots of good reasons to leave.

Try talking to a destitute peasant about church fathers and church history and such versus a better life and see how many care. I suspect not many. It's mainly fidelity to the traditions of their ancestors that keep most in the church. And that's not a bad thing.

yikes that a bad outlook on Orthodoxy in some countries however might be true. For example I look at Ukraine and Belarus  then I wonder how many would jump ship to the Greek Catholics, Pentecostals or Baptists if they were allowed to do that considering the situation of Orthodoxy in those nations being tied to oligarchs, corruption & Moscow.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 07:58:45 PM by seekeroftruth777 »
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2015, 10:13:09 PM »
Mental illness.   ;)
When I was working in a psych hospital, there was a study that showed that Pentecostals are the heaviest users of psych services (I don't remember the exact number, but it was very large-30% or so). The unanswered question was whether Pentecostalism had caused their problems, or if it attracted people with problems, or a mixture of both.

I suspect a mixture of both, but perhaps more so the latter. Also, the fact that mental illnesses have a hereditary component may end up amplifying it in later generations, too.

Reminds me of Dianne Reidy, a devout Pentecostal who later claimed the Holy Spirit (as well as plain old job stress) inspired her outburst.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2015, 11:10:01 PM »
Mental illness.   ;)

Oh, come on. That is completely unfair. :police:
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2015, 12:30:29 AM »
has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2015, 12:32:48 AM »
Mental illness.   ;)
When I was working in a psych hospital, there was a study that showed that Pentecostals are the heaviest users of psych services (I don't remember the exact number, but it was very large-30% or so). The unanswered question was whether Pentecostalism had caused their problems, or if it attracted people with problems, or a mixture of both.

I suspect a mixture of both, but perhaps more so the latter. Also, the fact that mental illnesses have a hereditary component may end up amplifying it in later generations, too.

Reminds me of Dianne Reidy, a devout Pentecostal who later claimed the Holy Spirit (as well as plain old job stress) inspired her outburst.

Appreciated your link in the other thread. Divide the demographic numbers by two, to make it  closer to reality. The numbers were hype.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2015, 12:36:35 AM »
Back when I was in high school, I remember our Baptist church really making a push for missions there.
Me, too. I knew several people from several different churches who went on mission to Romania. I wonder what the fixation was.

In college, I had a professor who had been a full-time IMB missionary there. His comment to me about Orthodoxy was that he respected it but what he saw in Romania was so jumbled he couldn't separate piety from superstition.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2015, 01:26:14 AM »
Back when I was in high school, I remember our Baptist church really making a push for missions there.
Me, too. I knew several people from several different churches who went on mission to Romania. I wonder what the fixation was.

In college, I had a professor who had been a full-time IMB missionary there. His comment to me about Orthodoxy was that he respected it but what he saw in Romania was so jumbled he couldn't separate piety from superstition.
Good grief as if they should ever be separated.

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2015, 01:56:25 AM »
Back when I was in high school, I remember our Baptist church really making a push for missions there.
Me, too. I knew several people from several different churches who went on mission to Romania. I wonder what the fixation was.

Maybe they were hoping to fight vampires when they were over there!   8)
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2015, 07:43:42 AM »
Well, I think the major cause of people leaving a particular church is lack of pastoral care and friendship among the members of this church. It seems to me that when a particular religion becomes the majority religion, people just start to be indifferent towards it, I think is a normal process, we are seeing this happen among protestant churches in America and Europe, in RC church in South America and Europe and in the Orthodox Church in eastern Europe.


Offline Agabus

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2015, 09:40:05 AM »
Back when I was in high school, I remember our Baptist church really making a push for missions there.
Me, too. I knew several people from several different churches who went on mission to Romania. I wonder what the fixation was.

In college, I had a professor who had been a full-time IMB missionary there. His comment to me about Orthodoxy was that he respected it but what he saw in Romania was so jumbled he couldn't separate piety from superstition.
Good grief as if they should ever be separated.
That's the impression I've always gotten. One of the key markers for an indigenous traditional religion is that the folks on the ground have a lot of off-the-books beliefs. This is probably less so than when we were kids since the way information is spread these days has a bit of a homogenizing effect.

I tried to ask my professor if he learned any good anti-werewolf charms, but I don't think he realized I was genuinely interested.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2015, 12:36:27 PM »
When I was in Russia, we visited a Russian baptist church. They had vestments, incense, the Eucharist, and hierarchy. It was very interesting, in a "watching a car-crash" kind of way.

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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2015, 12:57:54 PM »
Well, I think the major cause of people leaving a particular church is lack of pastoral care and friendship among the members of this church. It seems to me that when a particular religion becomes the majority religion, people just start to be indifferent towards it, I think is a normal process, we are seeing this happen among protestant churches in America and Europe, in RC church in South America and Europe and in the Orthodox Church in eastern Europe.

hmmm you make great points I'd add bad catechesis in that people grow up in the religion as a cultural expectations (I.E. - many Eastern Europeans in Orthodoxy , Brits in Anglicanism, Germans & Scandinavians in Lutheranism, Latin Americans, Poles & Italians in Roman Catholicism) but a lot of them never really learn the theology ,dogmas, histories, sacraments, saints, etc. of that Cultures faith.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2015, 01:39:59 PM »
Yes, bad catechesis is a big problem everywhere, I know some evangelicals raised in RC families, 99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics or the councils, or Vatican I e II, they don't know anything of their parent's faith. I suppose this happens also in orthodox families as well.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2015, 02:43:23 PM »
It seems to me that when a particular religion becomes the majority religion, people just start to be indifferent towards it...

The same is true of cultural Evangelicals in America. They say the magical sinner's prayer at some point, learn some basic jargon about having a personal relationship with God, and then it's back to the soulless gut-stuffed trough of consumerism. They also don't know anything about their own tradition or its roots, its beliefs, or where it's going. I have plenty of cultural Baptists in my family.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 02:43:39 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Orest

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2015, 02:56:30 PM »
When I was in Russia, we visited a Russian baptist church. They had vestments, incense, the Eucharist, and hierarchy. It was very interesting, in a "watching a car-crash" kind of way.

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2015, 12:07:03 PM »
It seems to me that when a particular religion becomes the majority religion, people just start to be indifferent towards it...

The same is true of cultural Evangelicals in America. They say the magical sinner's prayer at some point, learn some basic jargon about having a personal relationship with God, and then it's back to the soulless gut-stuffed trough of consumerism. They also don't know anything about their own tradition or its roots, its beliefs, or where it's going. I have plenty of cultural Baptists in my family.
My fam is exactly this. Voting is considered a sacrament.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2015, 06:27:04 PM »
99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics
Is that the basics?
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Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2015, 07:21:37 AM »
has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o

There are tons of good reasons for anyone familiar with the way Orthodoxy works in some parts of the world. Overweight rich clergy riding around in their Mercedes with $100,000 watches while their flocks scrape together a living and still donate to build beautiful churches. Not understanding anything being prayed or read in the churches because of the use of archaic languages that are nearly if not totally dead. Almost nonexistent catechesis and rampant superstition. The charitable outreach of Protestant missionaries and the hope of a better life that can bring with it (education, food, prayer support without financial motivation required [i.e. no simony for sacraments]), etc. Church administration being controlled by the state and then being used to control the people. There are lots of good reasons to leave.

Try talking to a destitute peasant about church fathers and church history and such versus a better life and see how many care. I suspect not many. It's mainly fidelity to the traditions of their ancestors that keep most in the church. And that's not a bad thing.

Regarding the corrupt, disinterested and coniving clergy, as an American who spent years in Protestant churches and para-church fellowships, and moreover, who followed some of the 'big names,' I can say that U.S. based Protestantism has a lot of that same feces
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Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2015, 07:23:09 AM »
It seems to me that when a particular religion becomes the majority religion, people just start to be indifferent towards it...

The same is true of cultural Evangelicals in America. They say the magical sinner's prayer at some point, learn some basic jargon about having a personal relationship with God, and then it's back to the soulless gut-stuffed trough of consumerism. They also don't know anything about their own tradition or its roots, its beliefs, or where it's going. I have plenty of cultural Baptists in my family.
+1
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2015, 04:04:49 PM »
99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics
Is that the basics?
Well, it's no Christ the Eternal Tao...
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2015, 07:29:41 PM »
I think you missed the point. You don't choose the Church for priest being rich or poor but for what is offering you.
Orthodox Church is offering you right belief , protestant Churches is offering you right and wrong beliefs. Should you go from right belief into wrong belief because priests are poor or rich?
Orthodox Church is offering to you the sacrament of confession that erases sins being like a new baptism in this aspects, Protestant Churches may not give you this. Are non ordained pastors allowed to perform the sacrament of confession? I don't know. How do you clean your soul without confession. Is it better to remain orthodox and spoil the soul then clean it then spoil it again then clean it again or go to protestantism because priests are rich and continue spoiling the soul at a lower speed without even cleaning it again? How is a shirt spoiled and then cleaned and the spoiled and cleaned compared with a shirt never cleaned even if you show care toward it? In my understanding in all Churches before 1600 only ordained people were allow to perform confession, non ordained pastors not being of these.
Orthodox Church is offering you Holy Eucharist or food for eternal life after teachings of Apostles see Holy Liturgy of Apostles James, Thomas, Peter , Mark....
The Orthodox Church is offering to you prayers even after your death for FREE, Protestant Churches leave you alone after death. Do you want to be left alone because some priests are rich? Yes even Jesus prayed for dead Lazarus and had effect. More than that Holy Liturgies of Apostles had prayers for departed so wrong belief is the cause for missing prayers for departed.
Orthodox Church is offering to you ordained priests allowed to perform Holy Liturgies,confessions according with Church teachings, Protestant Church may offer you non ordained laical men named pastors.
Orthodox Church followed teachings of the Apostles, Protestant Churches protested and reformed the teachings of APostles, Apostolic tradition, would you want to be part of such protest and reformation because some priest were rich? Fort example they replaced Holy Liturgies on Sunday designated after teachings of the Apostles with a sermon. If the changes were limited only to not put clergy to inthronate a king I won;'t say anything anyhow the reform cut deeply and replaced the teachings of the Apostles from which Bible is only a part. Do you wnt to reform teachings of Apostles like Bible because priests are rich? Who gave the authority to reform leaders to reform and protest the teachings of Apostles? NOBODY. And they error out in many aspects and they introduced wrong teachings. If they retruned to PAtristic teachings where are Holy Liturgies and ordained priests in Protestant Churches?
And I can continue. Church is not only about not drinking and being nice, is about more than that.


I think the root cause for people remaining or  leaving the Church is God's will. Visible causes for leaving may be sin and religious illiteracy.

Probably the main cause for orthodox countries remaining orthodox was these countries being busy with wars for existence, they did not have time to think much about religion and start changing based on their understanding and to start to protest and reform so they remained with Apostolic teachings and with mother Church the Eastern Orthodox Church.

has there been any studies done as to get to the root cause why these people leave the church? especially leaving for something like Evangelicalism or Pentecostalism yikes  :o

There are tons of good reasons for anyone familiar with the way Orthodoxy works in some parts of the world. Overweight rich clergy riding around in their Mercedes with $100,000 watches while their flocks scrape together a living and still donate to build beautiful churches. Not understanding anything being prayed or read in the churches because of the use of archaic languages that are nearly if not totally dead. Almost nonexistent catechesis and rampant superstition. The charitable outreach of Protestant missionaries and the hope of a better life that can bring with it (education, food, prayer support without financial motivation required [i.e. no simony for sacraments]), etc. Church administration being controlled by the state and then being used to control the people. There are lots of good reasons to leave.

Try talking to a destitute peasant about church fathers and church history and such versus a better life and see how many care. I suspect not many. It's mainly fidelity to the traditions of their ancestors that keep most in the church. And that's not a bad thing.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:03:08 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2015, 07:35:35 PM »
99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics
Is that the basics?
Well, it's no Christ the Eternal Tao...
I'll take Scotus and Aquinas any day.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2015, 08:08:55 PM »
As a point I would choose a Church that let me clean my soul with even depraved clergy over a church with top notch clergy that won't let me clean my soul any time. In my understanding sacrament is made by God and is the same for pious or normal clergy.

In Romania we had top notch clergy like Arsenie Boca a miracle worker from his life, Iustin Parvu and so on. We have so many theological Universities and so much clergy that we would be able to provide clergy to many countries. I think it is very hard to get a place in a Church in Romania because of competition and because of so many people being trained.

And fortunately in Romania the language in the street is the language in the Church.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:33:07 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2015, 07:15:05 AM »
Lets add writings of Apostles beside Bible:
1.Holy Liturgies written by Apostles and detailing Sunday service step by step reformed or replaced by some Protestantism in a sermon plus 4 walls
Holy Liturgy of Apostle James reformed in Protestantism into a sermon and 4 walls http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.xii.ii.html
Holy Liturgy of Apostle Mark http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.xii.iii.html
while Holy Liturgies of Apostles have prayers for departed Protestantism reformed this belief to the contrary belief of no prayers for departed.

2.Didache or The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
3.Apostolic Constitutions
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0715.htm

Anyhow in the other way we can learn from Protestantism to do more mission, to help people more, and to read Bible more often, the Bible given to the World through Eastern Orthodox Church.

Wondering how clergy that can not clean soul is better than clergy that can clean the soul of them self and of their people. How a washed shirt be worse than a shirt never washed.

May God bless everybody.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 07:49:12 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2015, 09:31:47 AM »
99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics
Is that the basics?
Well, it's no Christ the Eternal Tao...
I'll take Scotus and Aquinas any day.

Your phronema is showing.

Anyway, I think the joke inside my head probably whooshed right past most folks, which is OK because it wasn't terribly sophisticated or smart.

This idea that people have to be familiar with 'x' text and 'y' text before they are truly whatever is purely a product of modernity. The same folks who insist that we know the Church is the true church because it existed 'before the Bible' are the ones most likely to require extra knowledge to 'really get' Orthodoxy (or Catholicism).

 
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline juliogb

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Re: Evangelical populations in the U.S. of Orthodox-land origin
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2015, 09:33:49 AM »
99% of them don't know the basics of roman catholic faith, they never heard about the scholastics
Is that the basics?
Well, it's no Christ the Eternal Tao...
I'll take Scotus and Aquinas any day.


Historical protestans usually know something about the ''protestant scholastics'', something about Luther, John Calvin, Jacob Arminius, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon...I suppose roman catholics should know something about their best minds too.