Author Topic: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill  (Read 618 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,046
  • From the Land of 10,000 Lakes
Here's an interesting article giving a brief overview of how Hillsong became such a huge phenomenon. It provides a somewhat critical view, as it points out that "Hillsong has been a major player in transforming Christianity from a communal lifestyle to a spectator sport."

I thought AN might be interested, since the "Hillsong-ification" of Coptic parishes is one issue he's written a lot about on these forums.

Some of the comments are also interesting. One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 03:14:48 PM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Ima Xanthippe
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,431
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 03:20:50 PM »
Quote
In other words, this approach actually seems to be counterproductive to the mission of the church and falls into a popular behavior of our secular age, what Hubert Dreyfus of Berkeley and Sean Dorrance Kelly of Harvard call “whooshing up” in their book All Things Shining—the emotional “high” experienced at a sporting event or concert. Dreyfus and Kelly describe this arena culture as a new way of living within a world that rejects eternal truth, an alternative way to finding enjoyment and pleasure that never goes beyond the surface. They argue that in our arena culture, “whooshing up” is the only spirituality available to us, encouraging readers to therefore embrace it.

It's the only spirituality that many know. The "whooshing up" they describe is what I was raised to believe was "worship". Without feeling that emotional high, you think worship didn't happen.
Bad times, hard times, this is what people keep saying; but let us live well, and times shall be good. We are the times: Such as we are, such are the times. -St. Augustine

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,522
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 03:30:02 PM »
Quote
In other words, this approach actually seems to be counterproductive to the mission of the church and falls into a popular behavior of our secular age, what Hubert Dreyfus of Berkeley and Sean Dorrance Kelly of Harvard call “whooshing up” in their book All Things Shining—the emotional “high” experienced at a sporting event or concert. Dreyfus and Kelly describe this arena culture as a new way of living within a world that rejects eternal truth, an alternative way to finding enjoyment and pleasure that never goes beyond the surface. They argue that in our arena culture, “whooshing up” is the only spirituality available to us, encouraging readers to therefore embrace it.

It's the only spirituality that many know. The "whooshing up" they describe is what I was raised to believe was "worship". Without feeling that emotional high, you think worship didn't happen.

I was raised that way too.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,826
  • Faith: Dyophistie / anti-severian
  • Jurisdiction: With Pews
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 03:37:01 PM »
Some though, have only encountered  the term " worship" in the context of p0rn. All in all it's not an unqualifiedly   bad thing.
Holy martyr Proterius, patriarch of Alexandria,  pray for us!

Online Eruvande

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 314
  • Faith: Anglican
  • Jurisdiction: Worcestershire
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 03:39:08 PM »
Quote
In other words, this approach actually seems to be counterproductive to the mission of the church and falls into a popular behavior of our secular age, what Hubert Dreyfus of Berkeley and Sean Dorrance Kelly of Harvard call “whooshing up” in their book All Things Shining—the emotional “high” experienced at a sporting event or concert. Dreyfus and Kelly describe this arena culture as a new way of living within a world that rejects eternal truth, an alternative way to finding enjoyment and pleasure that never goes beyond the surface. They argue that in our arena culture, “whooshing up” is the only spirituality available to us, encouraging readers to therefore embrace it.

It's the only spirituality that many know. The "whooshing up" they describe is what I was raised to believe was "worship". Without feeling that emotional high, you think worship didn't happen.

I was raised that way too.

Not raised that way, raised quasi-atheist, but when I started becoming really serious about faith, the whooshing up was billed as the real thing.
Clumsily walking a narrow path and getting most of it wrong, but I'm still walking...

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,046
  • From the Land of 10,000 Lakes
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 03:54:19 PM »
Some though, have only encountered  the term " worship" in the context of p0rn. All in all it's not an unqualifiedly   bad thing.

You sound like WPM.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,522
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 04:01:38 PM »
Some though, have only encountered  the term " worship" in the context of p0rn. All in all it's not an unqualifiedly   bad thing.

I agree up to a point. I'm just worried about the social fallout from raising up a generation of showmanship addicts. Then again, maybe its an unavoidable part of modern life.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,826
  • Faith: Dyophistie / anti-severian
  • Jurisdiction: With Pews
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 04:08:27 PM »
Some though, have only encountered  the term " worship" in the context of p0rn. All in all it's not an unqualifiedly   bad thing.

You sound like WPM.
We're on the same pills . But do you realize how parochial this evangelical use of the noun or verb wirship is? If you try to translated this from English into some other language it just sounds bizarre . Heck it even sounds bizarre to native English speakers unaquainted  with the particular subculture that uses it. That was my point
Holy martyr Proterius, patriarch of Alexandria,  pray for us!

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Ima Xanthippe
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,431
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 05:56:31 PM »
Quote
In other words, this approach actually seems to be counterproductive to the mission of the church and falls into a popular behavior of our secular age, what Hubert Dreyfus of Berkeley and Sean Dorrance Kelly of Harvard call “whooshing up” in their book All Things Shining—the emotional “high” experienced at a sporting event or concert. Dreyfus and Kelly describe this arena culture as a new way of living within a world that rejects eternal truth, an alternative way to finding enjoyment and pleasure that never goes beyond the surface. They argue that in our arena culture, “whooshing up” is the only spirituality available to us, encouraging readers to therefore embrace it.

It's the only spirituality that many know. The "whooshing up" they describe is what I was raised to believe was "worship". Without feeling that emotional high, you think worship didn't happen.

I was raised that way too.

Not raised that way, raised quasi-atheist, but when I started becoming really serious about faith, the whooshing up was billed as the real thing.

Yes, precisely: "the real thing" is a good way to put it. That's the biggest disconnect for my Protestant side of the family when it comes to understanding my conversion to Orthodoxy. All the saint and Mary stuff and smells and bells are things they could write off as weird doctrinal differences, but they don't understand where the "worship" happens in our services because there isn't anything that would obviously orchestrate a "whooshing up".

Not long after we started going to Orthodox services and made our intention to convert known to our families, my mom asked me on the phone: "Do you feel God in your Church?" and it was the "whooshing up" that she meant. That emotional high = feeling God.
Bad times, hard times, this is what people keep saying; but let us live well, and times shall be good. We are the times: Such as we are, such are the times. -St. Augustine

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,082
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 11:17:39 AM »
We're on the same pills . But do you realize how parochial this evangelical use of the noun or verb wirship is? If you try to translated this from English into some other language it just sounds bizarre . Heck it even sounds bizarre to native English speakers unaquainted  with the particular subculture that uses it. That was my point

I suppose "fetish" works but that gets misused enough around here.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline juliogb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016, 10:17:19 AM »
Here in Brazil almost all gospel bands try to be like Hillsong, they even translate the songs, is quite awful because they have to force the portuguese lyrics into a melody made for a song in english.

Offline DeniseDenise

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,608
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016, 10:20:04 AM »
Here in Brazil almost all gospel bands try to be like Hillsong, they even translate the songs, is quite awful because they have to force the portuguese lyrics into a melody made for a song in english.


I suspect they do a less good job then all of Jobim's BN compositions.....;)
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline juliogb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2016, 10:28:25 AM »
I'm not a bossa nova listener...there are translations of Tom Jobim's songs to english?

Offline DeniseDenise

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,608
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2016, 10:38:25 AM »
I'm not a bossa nova listener...there are translations of Tom Jobim's songs to english?

tsk tsk.....


and yes...there are quite a lot of them that have english versions...

a prime example is this album

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Albert_Sinatra_%26_Ant%C3%B4nio_Carlos_Jobim

as well as quite a few songs done by Sergio Mendes and Brasil 66..

I quite literally grew up....(in America) listening to Bossa Nova and Brazilian style music, which had years of popularity in the 60's. 

I blame my mother and her album collection for my later going to Brazil and re-falling in love with it......I was predisposed.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline juliogb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2016, 10:45:45 AM »
I think non-brazilians know better this kind of music than we do, is quite hard to find a bossa nova affictionate nowadays, at least where I live, BN is more common in Rio de Janeiro area. Everybody just listens american pop music, sertanejo (kind of brazilian pop country music), rap and funk (not the classic one, ours is a kind of Miami Bass mixed with rap, it's terrible) and ''worship'' gospel music is also very popular, specially the Hillsong kind of sound.

Offline DeniseDenise

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,608
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 10:47:26 AM »
I think non-brazilians know better this kind of music than we do, is quite hard to find a bossa nova affictionate nowadays, at least where I live, BN is more common in Rio de Janeiro area. Everybody just listens american pop music, sertanejo (kind of brazilian pop country music), rap and funk (not the classic one, ours is a kind of Miami Bass mixed with rap, it's terrible) and ''worship'' gospel music is also very popular, specially the Hillsong kind of sound.

granted...I also like Forro....so my tastes are clearly questionable...;)
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,970
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 10:48:11 AM »
Here's an interesting article giving a brief overview of how Hillsong became such a huge phenomenon. It provides a somewhat critical view, as it points out that "Hillsong has been a major player in transforming Christianity from a communal lifestyle to a spectator sport."

I thought AN might be interested, since the "Hillsong-ification" of Coptic parishes is one issue he's written a lot about on these forums.

Some of the comments are also interesting. One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?

Unless Hillsong started about 16 centuries earlier than I thought, I fail to see how it had any role in this.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,970
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 10:50:12 AM »
Here in Brazil almost all gospel bands try to be like Hillsong, they even translate the songs, is quite awful because they have to force the portuguese lyrics into a melody made for a song in english.

Isn't that what happens with the vast majority of translated music?
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline juliogb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 10:56:01 AM »
Here in Brazil almost all gospel bands try to be like Hillsong, they even translate the songs, is quite awful because they have to force the portuguese lyrics into a melody made for a song in english.

Isn't that what happens with the vast majority of translated music?

Usually people made a whole new lyrics that fit the melody, but some gospel bands here try to make both, translate and fit, they usually fail in both tasks, and it is hard to make a good lyric in portuguese, it's easier to compose lyrics in english.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,748
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 11:38:03 AM »
Is it a good thing that I have no idea what Hillsong is?

Wikipedia says it's an Australian megachurch.  So then how did it change America?

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,970
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2016, 12:13:01 PM »
Here in Brazil almost all gospel bands try to be like Hillsong, they even translate the songs, is quite awful because they have to force the portuguese lyrics into a melody made for a song in english.

Isn't that what happens with the vast majority of translated music?

Usually people made a whole new lyrics that fit the melody, but some gospel bands here try to make both, translate and fit, they usually fail in both tasks, and it is hard to make a good lyric in portuguese, it's easier to compose lyrics in english.

My apologies for not being clear.

What I meant to say was: This is what almost always happens when music is translated.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Online Eruvande

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 314
  • Faith: Anglican
  • Jurisdiction: Worcestershire
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2016, 12:44:39 PM »
Is it a good thing that I have no idea what Hillsong is?

Wikipedia says it's an Australian megachurch.  So then how did it change America?

Its worship model of choir, band, and five or six front singers is a very popular style of doing church. Not sure whether Hillsong came before American megachurches. Chicken and egg I suspect...
Clumsily walking a narrow path and getting most of it wrong, but I'm still walking...

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,082
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2016, 02:59:11 PM »
Is it a good thing that I have no idea what Hillsong is?

Wikipedia says it's an Australian megachurch.  So then how did it change America?

Its worship model of choir, band, and five or six front singers is a very popular style of doing church. Not sure whether Hillsong came before American megachurches. Chicken and egg I suspect...

Ascendent at the same time, I think. More proof that left to evolve alone, Australia's flora and fauna produce monsters.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,748
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2016, 03:01:02 PM »
Is it a good thing that I have no idea what Hillsong is?

Wikipedia says it's an Australian megachurch.  So then how did it change America?

Its worship model of choir, band, and five or six front singers is a very popular style of doing church. Not sure whether Hillsong came before American megachurches. Chicken and egg I suspect...

Yeah, I figured...but since I'm not really interested in megachurches, I'm not in the know.

Offline juliogb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2016, 03:12:52 PM »
They are quite good in creating  the ''ambient'' to emotional demonstrations in worship, they use very well the rythm  (something like a slowed down dubstep), the guitars, the Major Chords with a 9, lights and stuff....they are the main influence in gospel music nowadays.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,522
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2016, 08:11:24 PM »
Here's an interesting article giving a brief overview of how Hillsong became such a huge phenomenon. It provides a somewhat critical view, as it points out that "Hillsong has been a major player in transforming Christianity from a communal lifestyle to a spectator sport."

I thought AN might be interested, since the "Hillsong-ification" of Coptic parishes is one issue he's written a lot about on these forums.

Some of the comments are also interesting. One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?

Unless Hillsong started about 16 centuries earlier than I thought, I fail to see how it had any role in this.

Are you talking about Constantine?
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,970
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2016, 09:32:41 PM »
Here's an interesting article giving a brief overview of how Hillsong became such a huge phenomenon. It provides a somewhat critical view, as it points out that "Hillsong has been a major player in transforming Christianity from a communal lifestyle to a spectator sport."

I thought AN might be interested, since the "Hillsong-ification" of Coptic parishes is one issue he's written a lot about on these forums.

Some of the comments are also interesting. One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?

Unless Hillsong started about 16 centuries earlier than I thought, I fail to see how it had any role in this.

Are you talking about Constantine?

Well, he certainly has a lot more to do with it than Hillsong.  Once Christianity became legal (and then the only respectable religion), the nature of what being a christian meant changed, substantially.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline BrotherBoris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2016, 09:56:04 PM »
I haven't been in an Protestant  church in about 25 years.  The last one I ever attended was a traditional Lutheran church with a pipe organ and stately hymns sung from a hymnal. I've never been in a church with a "praise team", or a band, or a group of microphoned people singing so-called "Christian" pop music. From the way it is described, it sounds more like a Rock concert than a worship service.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,970
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2016, 12:33:25 AM »
I haven't been in an Protestant  church in about 25 years.  The last one I ever attended was a traditional Lutheran church with a pipe organ and stately hymns sung from a hymnal. I've never been in a church with a "praise team", or a band, or a group of microphoned people singing so-called "Christian" pop music. From the way it is described, it sounds more like a Rock concert than a worship service.

Seems to me that this could also be applied to the professional chanters and the like that the Orthodox frequently have.

Unless of course the objection is just to rock concerts, instead of concerts in general.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 12:34:04 AM by JamesRottnek »
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,883
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2016, 04:19:57 PM »
We're on the same pills . But do you realize how parochial this evangelical use of the noun or verb wirship is? If you try to translated this from English into some other language it just sounds bizarre . Heck it even sounds bizarre to native English speakers unaquainted  with the particular subculture that uses it. That was my point
All my life, I had only heard "worship" as a verb, until I met converts in Orthodoxy who use it as a noun. Or perhaps when a couple Evangelical friends talked about it. In the larger culture, it is unheard of.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 04:21:14 PM by NicholasMyra »
Dear God, please force me to salvation and together with me as many people as possible.

Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Offline Iconodule

  • Professor of Cryptopatristics at Miskatonic University
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,718
  • Monsters from the Id
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2016, 04:27:45 PM »
We're on the same pills . But do you realize how parochial this evangelical use of the noun or verb wirship is? If you try to translated this from English into some other language it just sounds bizarre . Heck it even sounds bizarre to native English speakers unaquainted  with the particular subculture that uses it. That was my point

I suppose "fetish" works but that gets misused enough around here.

I propose KVLT. "Have you been to Meadowbrook Community Church? They have the most uplifting KVLT I have experienced in years."

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,522
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2016, 08:46:26 PM »
We're on the same pills . But do you realize how parochial this evangelical use of the noun or verb wirship is? If you try to translated this from English into some other language it just sounds bizarre . Heck it even sounds bizarre to native English speakers unaquainted  with the particular subculture that uses it. That was my point
All my life, I had only heard "worship" as a verb, until I met converts in Orthodoxy who use it as a noun. Or perhaps when a couple Evangelical friends talked about it. In the larger culture, it is unheard of.

I grew up seeing it as a label on a music genre, at least.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Hinterlander

  • Site Supporter
  • High Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
  • Faith: Inquirer
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2016, 09:00:55 PM »
One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?

I think your referring to James K. A. Smith who I've posted about in the past.  His new book, You Are What You Love, speaks about how a lot of modern Evangelical "contemporary" worship is so bad that it is "deformative" rather than "formative" which is what participating in liturgy is supposed to be.  Smith also critiques Protestant services being too focused on the "informing" role of the sermon rather than the "formative" role of repetitive and participatory liturgical movements/litanies/prayers etc.

Offline Hinterlander

  • Site Supporter
  • High Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
  • Faith: Inquirer
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: How the Hillsong Cool Factor Changed Worship for Good and for Ill
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2016, 09:05:33 PM »
One commenter argued that late medieval Catholicism was also a lot like a spectator sport in some ways, and this non-participatory aspect may have sparked an overreaction (namely, Protestant revivalism), which ended up going full circle. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?

I've heard Fr. Tom Hopko speak of the same error among Orthodox - the laity not understanding their role in the liturgy, infrequent communion, etc.

Offline xariskai

  • юродивый/yurodivy
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,601
  • יהוה עזי ומגני
  • Faith: Orthodox
Cool factor?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,246
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of the South
This article was pretty funny.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"