Author Topic: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21  (Read 1484 times)

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Offline Arachne

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2016, 01:36:35 PM »

What exactly is your doubt?  Whether Christ did some time-travel between his death and resurrection?  Whether he only preached to a subset of the dead ("people in Noah's time") and not all who happened to be dead?

"Kashmir" ftw!

Eso es una referencia de "Led Zepplin", una groupa musica de Los Estados Unitos.

Maybe you should ask "Led Zepplin" about I Peter 3.20-21.

BTW, "Unidos", not "Unitos".

Also, 'un grupo musical'.

Also-also, Led Zeppelin were British.

This turned out rather awkward, so... kittens?
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2016, 02:32:39 PM »

What exactly is your doubt?  Whether Christ did some time-travel between his death and resurrection?  Whether he only preached to a subset of the dead ("people in Noah's time") and not all who happened to be dead?

"Kashmir" ftw!

Eso es una referencia de "Led Zepplin", una groupa musica de Los Estados Unitos.

Maybe you should ask "Led Zepplin" about I Peter 3.20-21.

BTW, "Unidos", not "Unitos".

Also, 'un grupo musical'.

Also-also, Led Zeppelin were British.

This turned out rather awkward, so... kittens?

ty. I considered correcting myself on the place of origin of the British group, "Led Zepplin", but I didn't.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 02:34:02 PM by mcarmichael »

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2016, 03:24:34 PM »

What exactly is your doubt?  Whether Christ did some time-travel between his death and resurrection?  Whether he only preached to a subset of the dead ("people in Noah's time") and not all who happened to be dead?

"Kashmir" ftw!

Eso es una referencia de "Led Zepplin", una groupa musica de Los Estados Unitos.
In English, please. (Note: When you see a request typed in bold green font like this, recognize that the request is from a moderator and therefore requires your compliance.)

So, to keep with the theme, and not to antagonize you any further, do you want me to translate it in English for you, or are you saying that I cannot says "Kristos Anestis"?

lol

*to English
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 03:27:23 PM by mcarmichael »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2016, 03:40:40 PM »

What exactly is your doubt?  Whether Christ did some time-travel between his death and resurrection?  Whether he only preached to a subset of the dead ("people in Noah's time") and not all who happened to be dead?

"Kashmir" ftw!

Eso es una referencia de "Led Zepplin", una groupa musica de Los Estados Unitos.
In English, please. (Note: When you see a request typed in bold green font like this, recognize that the request is from a moderator and therefore requires your compliance.)

So, to keep with the theme, and not to antagonize you any further, do you want me to translate it in English for you, or are you saying that I cannot says "Kristos Anestis"?

lol

*to English
  • Do not be smart with me (or with any moderator) when you see a moderatorial directive like this. To let you know that you're taking this flippant disrespect too far, I am giving you a 5-point warning to stop this. If you wish to appeal this warning, please PM me.
  • With the exception of obvious phrases such as "Kyrie eleison" or "Kristos Anesti", anything you post in a foreign language must include an English translation. Yes I want you to translate your post to English.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 01:35:13 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2016, 08:10:29 PM »
I suppose because I've suggested that some Protestants might be right about something that nobody's said anything?

Either that, or your minds are just still blown by my keen insight. Which is it?
Are you here on this Faith Issues board to troll us with your Protestantism, or do you really want to discuss things from an Orthodox point of view?

I'm not at all sure. Maybe I thought it would be interesting to get some replies. I'm nearly certain that I didn't intend to troll anyone.
Boasting on a section of the forum devoted solely to discussion of the Orthodox Faith that some Protestants may actually be right about something...

Boasting of your "keen insights"...

Your consistently flippant attitude...

Even if you don't intend to troll us, it's easy to recognize how such conduct will quickly make you unpopular with your hosts.

Hey, c'mon Pete. That was a little harsh I think.
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Wait. Was your mind legitimately "blown" by my "keen" observations? Because I *was* being sarcastic, afterall.

What the... no way, pascha is over,
Dude, Pascha ain't over 'til we celebrate the Ascension on June 9. ;)

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Truly he is risen

Great point, thanks for the correction about Pascha.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2016, 08:18:40 PM »

What exactly is your doubt?  Whether Christ did some time-travel between his death and resurrection?  Whether he only preached to a subset of the dead ("people in Noah's time") and not all who happened to be dead?

"Kashmir" ftw!

Eso es una referencia de "Led Zepplin", una groupa musica de Los Estados Unitos.
In English, please. (Note: When you see a request typed in bold green font like this, recognize that the request is from a moderator and therefore requires your compliance.)

So, to keep with the theme, and not to antagonize you any further, do you want me to translate it in English for you, or are you saying that I cannot says "Kristos Anestis"?

lol

*to English
  • Do not be smart with me (or with any moderator) when you see a moderatorial directive like this. To let you know that you're taking this flippant disrespect too far, I am giving you a 5-point warning to stop this. If you wish to appeal this warning, please PM me.
  • With the exception of obvious phrases such as "Kyrie eleison" or "Kristos Anesti", anything you post in a foreign language must include an English translation. Yes I want you to translate your post to English.

I do what I want.



No, you don't. My request that you post an English translation of your foreign-language post was a reasonable request made to enforce compliance with forum rules. Your defiant insistence on arguing with me publicly even though I instructed you to appeal my warning via private message is intolerable. If you want to be a productive contributor to the forum community at OC.net, you need to understand our rules and strive to comply with them.

To let you know how important it is that you comply with the rules of our community and with moderatorial directives, I am increasing your warning status to 30 points. For the next 5 days your posts will be screened for compliance with our rules. Any post that does not comply will be rejected and not allowed to appear on our forum.

Again, if you wish to argue with my warning, you are permitted to do so only via private message to me.

- PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 01:36:38 PM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2016, 09:50:11 PM »


I do what I want.



No, you don't. My request that you post an English translation of your foreign-language post was a reasonable request made to enforce compliance with forum rules. Your defiant insistence on arguing with me publicly even though I instructed you to appeal my warning via private message is intolerable. If you want to be a productive contributor to the forum community at OC.net, you need to understand our rules and strive to comply with them.

To let you know how important it is that you comply with the rules of our community and with moderatorial directives, I am increasing your warning status to 30 points. For the next 5 days your posts will be screened for compliance with our rules. Any post that does not comply will be rejected and not allowed to appear on our forum.

Again, if you wish to argue with my warning, you are permitted to do so only via private message to me.

- PeterTheAleut


I was actually booted from christianforums.com for the same reason. So you're going easy on me - which I appreciate, and it's why I won't argue with whatever you said here.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2016, 09:37:15 PM »
So are there "pios opinions" regarding the person of the Trinity, or is it sort of off-limits?

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2016, 01:51:57 PM »
So are there "pios opinions" regarding the person of the Trinity, or is it sort of off-limits?

One pious opinion--nay, truth--is that there are actually three persons. 

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2016, 09:48:53 PM »
This the NKJV copy of 1 Peter 3:18-21:
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."

So, I guess whether He preached to them then or more recently isn't so signficant (although I still prefer my interpretation, for various reason) - however the question becomes what does it mean that He (Christ) preached to them ... by the Spirit?

Does it work ontologically?

Thanks.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2016, 09:52:10 PM »

I am Greek. What exactly you can't understand of the passage? I can't find something that is difficult of this. The passage says that Christ preached to the people that were in the prison of death, after his death, with the power of the Holy Spirit. He, as a God-man, beat the death and gave life to all people that had no hope due to their sins in Hell. Salvation is for all, living and dead. In our Church we celebrate this preaching in Hades at Great Saturday.

So isn't there any indication in the Greek text that Christ preached to the people in Noah's time, rather than more recently?

This would not be at all unheard of, according to the Patristic tradition, because isn't "The Angel of the Lord", in particular, sometimes considered the Pre-Incarnate Christ?

It's not a sticking point, but rather a curiosity. Thanks.

Of course He is the Angel of the Lord and the Wisdom of Him as the Bible says through Isaih, Solomon etc... God the Father speaks to people ONLY through His Son, His Word before, at and after the incarnation of Him. The text says that Jesus preached to the people that died in Noah's time.

pls. see above. ty

Edit: Also, what about the thing that says that the Holy Spirit spoke by the prophets? Hm?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 09:59:50 PM by mcarmichael »

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2016, 04:44:58 PM »
What about Genesis 4:26 "And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call on the name of the LORD." - pretty much ever translation of this passage besides the ISV, which reads: "And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to profane the name of the Lord." (paraphrased)

The ISV makes more sense, and is more interesting.

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 11:02:36 PM »
Protestants on the whole don't think about that passage much.  Maybe the more educated and less dogmatic and freethinking contemplate those sorts of things.  I just got done reading a book called Revising Old Scratch by a Church of Christ pastor talking about the "Harrowing of Hell", but on the whole it's not something the average Protestant thinks about.

Protestantism emerged when western people were so terrified of an immediate fate of heaven or hell after death that they wanted to know exactly where they were going when they died.

I grew up Methodist and attended a conservative, baptisty bible study as a teenager.  Can you believe I thought that David and other old testament saints were still in Hell?  It was just never a topic that came up to be discussed.  Everything was about individual salvation, and if it wasn't relevant, it wasn't discussed.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:03:36 PM by Daedelus1138 »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 11:37:45 PM »
What about Genesis 4:26 "And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call on the name of the LORD." - pretty much ever translation of this passage besides the ISV, which reads: "And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to profane the name of the Lord." (paraphrased)

The ISV makes more sense, and is more interesting.

Which is to say, "At that time, men began to call on God by the name 'Jehovah' " ("LORD," in small caps, is the traditional way in English to translate YHWH without breaking the old taboos). We won't read of men calling on God by the name YHWH again until He so re-revealed Himself to Moses.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:39:03 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: towards a (proper) Protestant understanding of 1 Peter 3:20,21
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 11:42:43 PM »
Protestants on the whole don't think about that passage much.  Maybe the more educated and less dogmatic and freethinking contemplate those sorts of things.  I just got done reading a book called Revising Old Scratch by a Church of Christ pastor talking about the "Harrowing of Hell", but on the whole it's not something the average Protestant thinks about.

Protestantism emerged when western people were so terrified of an immediate fate of heaven or hell after death that they wanted to know exactly where they were going when they died.

I grew up Methodist and attended a conservative, baptisty bible study as a teenager.  Can you believe I thought that David and other old testament saints were still in Hell?  It was just never a topic that came up to be discussed.  Everything was about individual salvation, and if it wasn't relevant, it wasn't discussed.

For all the Protestant fervor for doctrine, there are some very key pieces of theology they seem just to have lost. And so someone like Joseph Smith can have a hayday filling in those gaps with interpretations novel but credible enough to convince members to switch brands.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy