OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 19, 2014, 09:09:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Pope Benedict and Godly Fire of Purgatory: A move towards Orthodoxy?  (Read 1559 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« on: December 01, 2007, 08:55:28 PM »

Is the Pope making Catholic Purgatory more "Orthodox"?

From the recent encyclical:

47. Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the [Purgatorial] fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ's Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy.

This sounds very much like the Orthodox "River of Fire", the main difference seeming to be that Benedict limits the idea of "fire-as-God" to Purgatory, rather than to eternal hell.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 02:28:30 AM »

This sounds very much like the Orthodox "River of Fire", the main difference seeming to be that Benedict limits the idea of "fire-as-God" to Purgatory, rather than to eternal hell.
If so, this must be a first.
"Development of doctrine" initiated to bring RC dogma into accord with Orthodox dogma. Wink
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 02:43:37 AM »

George you should become an orthodox christian comedian ill be the first ticket buyer. Smiley
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 02:43:58 AM »

If so, this must be a first.
"Development of doctrine" initiated to bring RC dogma into accord with Orthodox dogma. Wink

The only de fide dogma we have about purgatory is that a state of purification exists and that the prayers and alms of the living can help those in it. Everything else is opinion, though I admit Pope Benedict's as expressed in his new encyclical is a very good one.
Logged
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 03:05:44 AM »

He also quotes Maximus the Confessor...not a blessed or saint in the Catholic Church, what's next ?
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 03:14:30 AM »

It was a nice encyclical, very poetic, I like it. Now all he has to do is equate purgatory and hell and the issue's solved. Wink
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 11:00:22 AM »

Hello,

He also quotes Maximus the Confessor...not a blessed or saint in the Catholic Church, what's next ?

Ummm...yes, he is - his feastday is August 13.  Wink
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 03:48:00 PM »

Sorry, I cannot find any mention on the General Roman Calendar (US) , however he is noted on the Ruthenian one...

Forgive my mistake St. Maximus...

Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »

Hello,

Sorry, I cannot find any mention on the General Roman Calendar (US) , however he is noted on the Ruthenian one...

Forgive my mistake St. Maximus...

You won't find him on any liturgical calendar you get from your local Catholic parish because he is not given a universal feast day (in the sense that celebration of it is obligatory), but there are A LOT of Saints who are not there. For instance, the patron saint of my home village in Italy - Santo Stefano del Lupo - is not even listed by name on his feast day of July 19. His entry is: And elsewhere in divers places, many other holy martyrs, confessors, and holy virgins. Sad If every Saint had his/her own individual feast day that must be celebrated, there would need to be thousands more days in the year. Wink

Here is a link to the Roman Martyrology for August 13 - Saint Maximus is the fifth entry down:

At Constantinople, St. Maximus, a monk distinguished for learning and for zeal for Catholic truth.  Valiantly disputing the Monothelites, he had his hands and tongue torn from him by the heretical emperor Constans, and was banished to Chersonesus, where he breathed his last.  At this time, two of his disciples, both named Anastasius, and many others endured divers torments and the hardships of exile.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 05:50:58 PM by Athanasios » Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.053 seconds with 36 queries.