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Author Topic: Article on the Ark in Ethiopia  (Read 11947 times) Average Rating: 0
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Eugenio
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« on: December 01, 2007, 08:01:37 PM »

A rather interesting article...

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/ark-covenant-200712.html
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 08:47:44 PM »

To give people a better idea of what the article is about, I'll copy the first few paragraphs here:



"They shall make an ark of acacia wood," God commanded Moses in the Book of Exodus, after delivering the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. And so the Israelites built an ark, or chest, gilding it inside and out. And into this chest Moses placed stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments, as given to him on Mount Sinai.

Thus Jews came to revere the ark as an earthly manifestation of God. The Old Testament describes its enormous powers—blazing with fire and light, halting rivers, blasting away armies and bringing down the fabled walls of Jericho. (Steven Spielberg's 1981 film Raiders of the Lost Ark provides a special-effects approximation.) According to the First Book of Kings, King Solomon built the First Temple in Jerusalem to house the ark. It was venerated there during Solomon's reign (c. 970-930 B.C.) and beyond.

Then it vanished. Much of Jewish tradition holds that it disappeared before or while the Babylonians sacked the temple in Jerusalem in 586 B.C.

But through the centuries, Ethiopian Christians have claimed that the ark rests in a chapel in the small town of Aksum, in their country's northern highlands. It arrived nearly 3,000 years ago, they say, and has been guarded by a succession of virgin monks who, once anointed, are forbidden to set foot outside the chapel grounds until they die.
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 09:20:41 PM »

To give people a better idea of what the article is about, I'll copy the first few paragraphs here:



"They shall make an ark of acacia wood," God commanded Moses in the Book of Exodus, after delivering the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. And so the Israelites built an ark, or chest, gilding it inside and out. And into this chest Moses placed stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments, as given to him on Mount Sinai.

Thus Jews came to revere the ark as an earthly manifestation of God. The Old Testament describes its enormous powers—blazing with fire and light, halting rivers, blasting away armies and bringing down the fabled walls of Jericho. (Steven Spielberg's 1981 film Raiders of the Lost Ark provides a special-effects approximation.) According to the First Book of Kings, King Solomon built the First Temple in Jerusalem to house the ark. It was venerated there during Solomon's reign (c. 970-930 B.C.) and beyond.

Then it vanished. Much of Jewish tradition holds that it disappeared before or while the Babylonians sacked the temple in Jerusalem in 586 B.C.

But through the centuries, Ethiopian Christians have claimed that the ark rests in a chapel in the small town of Aksum, in their country's northern highlands. It arrived nearly 3,000 years ago, they say, and has been guarded by a succession of virgin monks who, once anointed, are forbidden to set foot outside the chapel grounds until they die.


Well at least two things could have happened: 1. The Babylonians made off with it after sacking the city of Jerusalem.  I cant see these Persians overlooking something as valuable as the Ark, or 2. The Ethiopians are correct and the Ark was taken from the city prior to the Persians entering it.

Im surprised someone over these eons hasnt challenged the Ethiopians on this and that someone hadnt actually invaded the Ark's resting place.

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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 06:27:09 PM »

Well, in the article the reporter goes to what is essentially the keeper of the Ark and asks to take a peek. Unsurprisingly, his request is denied.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 03:15:28 PM »

Well at least two things could have happened: 1. The Babylonians made off with it after sacking the city of Jerusalem.  I cant see these Persians overlooking something as valuable as the Ark, or 2. The Ethiopians are correct and the Ark was taken from the city prior to the Persians entering it.

Im surprised someone over these eons hasnt challenged the Ethiopians on this and that someone hadnt actually invaded the Ark's resting place.



Interesting you should say that.

That has not happend as of yet.

Consider this; Ethiopia has never been conquered by any foriegn people or government ...ever. All that has tried has failed. Italy shortly after WW1 invaded and occupied Adawa a large northern province of Ethiopia. Although the Italians had modern weapons and well trained men by the thousands; The Ethiopians completely and thoroughly routed them...the army was crushed. Italy left Africa and became the only European power to fail in colonial efforts on the continent. Italy returned just before WW2 and occupied the same area and the port of Asmara. Not only did Italy fail again in Africa she failed with the help of her fellow European brothers fighting against her. Ethiopians of course faught with all there might as well. Italy also lost the war.

Consider that Ethiopia ahs never been colonized by Europe or Arabia or nay country which sadly befell all other African countries.

Consider that Ethiopia was not included in the Arab exapnsion of islam. Their prophet forbid any attacks or jihad on Ethiopia. Thus Ethiopia is the only trurly Christian Nation in Africa and maybe the world. islam is a small element in the country. Arabs are surprised when I tell them I do not speak Arabic. Arabic is barely used anywhere in the country even though the Arab speaking world ia all around Ethiopia. muslims in Ethiopia speak Ethiopic and pray in Arabic.

Consider that during the dark ages in Europe Ethiopia was building cathedrals what is now Sudan and expanding christian knowlegde throughout her empire. This spawned the European quest for the Ethiopian priest king Prestre John.

The Ethiopian eunuch in Acts Ch. 8 is the bridge which the church crossed from the Jews to the gentiles. The eunuch was not a gentile however. He was a black man from Africa and Hebrew in all his ways of life,faith, heritage and tradition. He even read Hebrew which is noted in Acts Ch. 8 which at that time most Jews only spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was a priestly tongue at that time; just to add to the intrigue.

Today Ethiopia is largest Orthodox community on earth (Russians may argue this point and rightly so).

There is alot more I could add.

But from this it should be clear that Ethiopia certainly has a special blessing.

The Ark of God has been giuding and protecting her for millennia.



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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 03:22:24 PM »

I have this issue at home (the cover shows the detail of a wonderful icon of the Theotokos) but I still have to finish reading the previous issue! 
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 08:40:27 PM »

Interesting you should say that.

That has not happend as of yet.

Consider this; Ethiopia has never been conquered by any foriegn people or government ...ever. All that has tried has failed. Italy shortly after WW1 invaded and occupied Adawa a large northern province of Ethiopia. Although the Italians had modern weapons and well trained men by the thousands; The Ethiopians completely and thoroughly routed them...the army was crushed. Italy left Africa and became the only European power to fail in colonial efforts on the continent. Italy returned just before WW2 and occupied the same area and the port of Asmara. Not only did Italy fail again in Africa she failed with the help of her fellow European brothers fighting against her. Ethiopians of course faught with all there might as well. Italy also lost the war.

Consider that Ethiopia ahs never been colonized by Europe or Arabia or nay country which sadly befell all other African countries.

Consider that Ethiopia was not included in the Arab exapnsion of islam. Their prophet forbid any attacks or jihad on Ethiopia. Thus Ethiopia is the only trurly Christian Nation in Africa and maybe the world. islam is a small element in the country. Arabs are surprised when I tell them I do not speak Arabic. Arabic is barely used anywhere in the country even though the Arab speaking world ia all around Ethiopia. muslims in Ethiopia speak Ethiopic and pray in Arabic.

Consider that during the dark ages in Europe Ethiopia was building cathedrals what is now Sudan and expanding christian knowlegde throughout her empire. This spawned the European quest for the Ethiopian priest king Prestre John.

The Ethiopian eunuch in Acts Ch. 8 is the bridge which the church crossed from the Jews to the gentiles. The eunuch was not a gentile however. He was a black man from Africa and Hebrew in all his ways of life,faith, heritage and tradition. He even read Hebrew which is noted in Acts Ch. 8 which at that time most Jews only spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was a priestly tongue at that time; just to add to the intrigue.

Today Ethiopia is largest Orthodox community on earth (Russians may argue this point and rightly so).

There is alot more I could add.

But from this it should be clear that Ethiopia certainly has a special blessing.

The Ark of God has been giuding and protecting her for millennia.





Could you give some insite as to the reason Eritrea, Somolia waged war with Ethiopia?  Was it a religious war or political?

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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 03:11:48 PM »

Could you give some insite as to the reason Eritrea, Somolia waged war with Ethiopia?  Was it a religious war or political?



Politics.

Both of these countries were part of the Ethiopian Empire a long time ago. Each are still struggling with independence and indenity; Eritrea more than Somolia.

Most people are not aware of the fact that "Ethiopia" was a blanket term which intended to describe all the nations and peoples of what we currently call "Africa". "Africa" as a term is a very recent phrase applied by Europeans in the last few centuries. You may want to look at (or Google) some old colonial era maps. You will see that Africa was first known to Europeans as 'Ethiopia'. Even the South Atlantic was called the 'Ethiopic Ocean'.

Once you get it clear in your own mind what Ethiopia is in the ancient understanding you can than be clear as to why Ethiopia is so prominantly mentioned in the Bible. The biblically ancient "Ethiopia" was a huge empire; not a country of limited power and influence.

Somolia and Eritrea are remnant cast-aways and will for a long time to come will be in some kind of tit-for-tat with their 'mother'....Ethiopia.

This needs prayer.

Thanks
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 03:22:20 PM »

God bless !

I know the Churches of Lalibela- beautiful !

I also read once a book about Ethiopian Saints and iconograpy.

In CHRIST

Is it true that in Ethiopia heretics are called : the enemy of mary ?
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 05:22:37 PM »

God bless !

I know the Churches of Lalibela- beautiful !

I also read once a book about Ethiopian Saints and iconograpy.

In CHRIST

Is it true that in Ethiopia heretics are called : the enemy of mary ?


I have never heard this before.

Ethiopia is/was called the land of Mary; as to imply Mary the Mother of God.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2008, 09:17:53 PM »

Question about Ethiopia and Ark of the Covenant

According to the Orthodox Liturgical calendar, the Epistle reading for today was from Hebrews 9:1-7

In verse 4 it says the Ark of the Covenant contained three things:

- the golden jar of manna
- Aaron’s staff that had budded
- the stone tablets of the covenant

Before I say anything further, I want to briefly say how much I appreciate the end of verse 5: “But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.”  This is one of my favorite instances of scripture pointing outside of itself.  Its one of many examples to bring up in a discussion about sola-scriptura.  I like to see it as a reference to the richness of Tradition.  Smiley

Anyway, here is my main question:
The Ethiopian Orthodox believe/proclaim that the Ark of the Covenant is in a small church in Ethiopia (Axum).  So, do they also believe that all three of the items mentioned in verse 4 (the jar, staff, and tablets) are still in the Ark

I never really thought about the fact that scripture mentions three specific items in the Ark.  The 10 Commandments and Indiana Jones Roll Eyes movies really emphasized the tablets, but there was never any real mention of Aaron’s staff or the golden jar of manna.  I look forward to any feedback.  +God bless
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 04:32:08 PM »

Question about Ethiopia and Ark of the Covenant

According to the Orthodox Liturgical calendar, the Epistle reading for today was from Hebrews 9:1-7

In verse 4 it says the Ark of the Covenant contained three things:

- the golden jar of manna
- Aaron’s staff that had budded
- the stone tablets of the covenant

Before I say anything further, I want to briefly say how much I appreciate the end of verse 5: “But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.”  This is one of my favorite instances of scripture pointing outside of itself.  Its one of many examples to bring up in a discussion about sola-scriptura.  I like to see it as a reference to the richness of Tradition.  Smiley

Anyway, here is my main question:
The Ethiopian Orthodox believe/proclaim that the Ark of the Covenant is in a small church in Ethiopia (Axum).  So, do they also believe that all three of the items mentioned in verse 4 (the jar, staff, and tablets) are still in the Ark

I never really thought about the fact that scripture mentions three specific items in the Ark.  The 10 Commandments and Indiana Jones Roll Eyes movies really emphasized the tablets, but there was never any real mention of Aaron’s staff or the golden jar of manna.  I look forward to any feedback.  +God bless


This is a difficult subject for persons who first do not believe in the the Holy Scriptures and Hebrew traditions and or are not interested in considering that anything immensely important is in Africa.

Not that I mean you persay.

If you read the Old Testament or Torah you will find enough information regarding Ethiopia (Africa) and Isreals connection to this continent and its 'indigenous' inhabitants. Even Christ our Lord and the Holy Mother of God has planted foot on the African continent.

This being said should it be any real surprise that the Holy Ark of the Covenant came to Africa and is still on the continent?

Some people disregard this point even in the face of unarguable evidence. These same people are usually also non-believers. NO wonder!

Yes the Ark is in Ethiopia.

If a person needs more confirmation other than faith in the word of God to this fact than the subject is moot anyway since the existance of the Ark was and still a thing of faith and belief. It is not now and never was a thing for the curious and material minded. This type will always be illuded by ALL things that are really relevent to God and faith. These are the "lost" as stated in Holy Scripture.

NO faith NO Ark.

Thus Indiana Jones types are working with blinders on.
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 04:59:23 PM »

I have to put in my two cents worth in. Just a month an a half ago, I bought the TV series "Digging for the Truth" . There is an episode in the first season devoted to finding what happened to the Ark.  The host did make a strong case for it being in Ethiopia. The last half of the show, he traveled around Ethiopia going to sites it was historically reputed to at.  I would highly recommend seeing this episode, just to see what is availible on the subject.
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 07:40:38 PM »

I first learned of the Ark in Ethiopia after watching the episode of Digging for the Truth actually. I found it fascinating and I believe that the Ark is in Aksum as the Ethiopian church says.

The Digging for the Truth episode about the Ark is actually up on YouTube. It isn't the full episode since it was edited just to show the Ethiopian parts. Some of the places Josh goes in Ethiopia are really fascinating places.

Part 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY
Part 2
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbX0TjY0jA
Part 3
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1tsViR8oSMw
Part 4
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GEayq3iAaS4
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 11:19:22 PM »

I my self believe it is in Ethiopia ,,Thanks  Be to the Most Holy Trinity our great  Lord and God that he's Chosen the Holy Ethiopian Orthodox Church as a Guardians of His Holy Ark....... a Great Blessing indeed .......stanislav
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 04:05:51 PM »

I my self believe it is in Ethiopia ,,Thanks  Be to the Most Holy Trinity our great  Lord and God that he's Chosen the Holy Ethiopian Orthodox Church as a Guardians of His Holy Ark....... a Great Blessing indeed .......stanislav

The blessing you speak of is yours stashko and all people; particularly thoses who are in the Holy Orthodox Church for which IT (the Ark) belongs.

Please note:

Ethiopia has the single largest group of Orthodox Christians in the world.

Ethiopia has never been conquered by any foriegn power. Her empire has dwindled down to what we call modern Ethiopia today. But this most important part of her has remained protected from the raveges of European slavers, The European "scramble for Africa", Muslim Jihads, crusaders, protestants and so on. Modern Ethiopia (the last frontier of the former empire) has seen and suffered from many things even some of those noted. But these things did not prevail like elsewhere in Africa and the world. You would be hard pressed to find any place in the world that has not been ravaged by the above noted. Ethiopia even was spared the expansion of the the Roman and the previous Greek empires.

Need I mention that the so-called "prophet mohammed" sent his family to be protected by Ethiopia an Ethiopian Christian king of Ethiopia when his family was slated to be killed by the people of Arabia. He said "they (Ethiopians) are rightious".

Heordotus stated "the blameless Ethiopians" and "God dwells at there festivals".

These are some interesting points I touched on in hope that it should help interested persons to see that Ethiopia has had and has great favor from all areas of the world including the ancient Hebrew world.

Starting with the 16th century much damage has been done to mask the truth about Africa and the Hebrew world; the biblical world.





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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 04:56:41 PM »

Thank you Father Deacon Amdetsion...it is a great Blessing for us all......stanislav....Ps..God is truly with Ethiopia and has shown his love for it...also i wanted to ask what happen's to the Holy Ark in the future ,,Does it go back to israel,is the temple rebuild....or does God take it back to heaven,or does it stay on the earth in your country till the second coming of Christ the supreme judge..just curious about it...the only thing i know about it is from the movies and the documentaries i watched on tv ..SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2008, 12:04:43 AM »

So, going back to Seraphim's question about the content of the Ark and Deacon Amde's response, it seems that there is no knowledge of what is currently in the Ark?  I could understand that.  It seems it would probably be unthinkable to examine something so sacred the way a scientist would.  I suppose this is the sort of thing which is in the realm of mystery.

I've heard that there is a monk assigned to care for the Ark and that he never leaves the church where it is located.  Is that true?
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2008, 10:51:27 AM »

So, going back to Seraphim's question about the content of the Ark and Deacon Amde's response, it seems that there is no knowledge of what is currently in the Ark?  I could understand that.  It seems it would probably be unthinkable to examine something so sacred the way a scientist would.  I suppose this is the sort of thing which is in the realm of mystery.


Being Orthodox, I can definitely appreciate "the realm of mystery."  Smiley   

In regards to the contents of the Ark, I assume that since there is no specific mention either in the Old Testament or in Ethiopian Tradition that the golden jar of manna or budded staff were ever removed, then of course they would still be in the Ark.

I suppose the main reason I was asking is:
I know that Ethiopian parishes have replicas of the Ark in their altar.  I was curious if these arks also contain replicas of the 10 commandments... and, if so, do they also have a golden jar and budded staff

Thanks everyone for your input.
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2008, 10:55:48 AM »

I've heard that there is a monk assigned to care for the Ark and that he never leaves the church where it is located.  Is that true?


True.  He is called the "Keeper."  He rarely ever shows his face, and that is only when he receives food through the tall fence which surrounds the church.  When he reaches the end of his life he looks for a worthy successor and passes the responsibility of "Keeper" onto him.
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2008, 03:25:56 PM »


True.  He is called the "Keeper."  He rarely ever shows his face, and that is only when he receives food through the tall fence which surrounds the church.  When he reaches the end of his life he looks for a worthy successor and passes the responsibility of "Keeper" onto him.

This is correct..

Some writers have claimed that they "talked" to a retired monk who was a keeper at one time and described the contents.

First what is a "retired" monk?

In Ethiopian we have no such thing.

Be sure that any monk who has seen the true Ark has never lived to to desribe it to anyone.

Emperor Hiali Sallassie and all our former kings during there lives nor the patriarchs of Ethiopia has seen it and have no right to.
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2008, 03:38:05 PM »


Being Orthodox, I can definitely appreciate "the realm of mystery."  Smiley   

In regards to the contents of the Ark, I assume that since there is no specific mention either in the Old Testament or in Ethiopian Tradition that the golden jar of manna or budded staff were ever removed, then of course they would still be in the Ark.

I suppose the main reason I was asking is:
I know that Ethiopian parishes have replicas of the Ark in their altar.  I was curious if these arks also contain replicas of the 10 commandments... and, if so, do they also have a golden jar and budded staff


Thanks everyone for your input.

All parish churches worldwide has a consecrated replica of the 'tablets' of Moses on the Alter. These are the means by which a church is consecrated.. Without a 'true' Tabot' (pronounced Tah-bewt) or tablet of Moses then the Church is not holy and thus cannot contain the body of Christ in it.

Of course this is not to say that if all other traditions are without a Tabot than they are not holy. This is the burden of the Ethiopian Church community since we are the keepers and custodians of the true Ark.

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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2008, 03:41:57 PM »

Are all Ethiopian Orthodox Christians required to believe that the Church in Ethiopia has the true Ark?
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2008, 03:48:15 PM »

Thank you Father Deacon Amdetsion...it is a great Blessing for us all......stanislav....Ps..God is truly with Ethiopia and has shown his love for it...also i wanted to ask what happen's to the Holy Ark in the future ,,Does it go back to israel,is the temple rebuild....or does God take it back to heaven,or does it stay on the earth in your country till the second coming of Christ the supreme judge..just curious about it...the only thing i know about it is from the movies and the documentaries i watched on tv ..SmileyCentral.com" border="0

I am sorry I do not know this answer.

TV docu's are in the business of teaching for money not for truth.

Truth is provided free of charge.

God bless you.
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2008, 03:50:18 PM »

Are all Ethiopian Orthodox Christians required to believe that the Church in Ethiopia has the true Ark?

No.

We are all not 'required' to believe in God at all.

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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2008, 04:04:47 PM »

No.

We are all not 'required' to believe in God at all.


I am sorry. I was not trying to be offensive. My question is this. If an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian does not believe that Ethiopia has the true Ark, is that Christian sinning? Is he in good standing in his Church?
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2008, 04:08:30 PM »

The blessing you speak of is yours stashko and all people; particularly thoses who are in the Holy Orthodox Church for which IT (the Ark) belongs.

Please note:

Ethiopia has the single largest group of Orthodox Christians in the world.

Ethiopia has never been conquered by any foriegn power. Her empire has dwindled down to what we call modern Ethiopia today. But this most important part of her has remained protected from the raveges of European slavers, The European "scramble for Africa", Muslim Jihads, crusaders, protestants and so on. Modern Ethiopia (the last frontier of the former empire) has seen and suffered from many things even some of those noted. But these things did not prevail like elsewhere in Africa and the world. You would be hard pressed to find any place in the world that has not been ravaged by the above noted. Ethiopia even was spared the expansion of the the Roman and the previous Greek empires.

Need I mention that the so-called "prophet mohammed" sent his family to be protected by Ethiopia an Ethiopian Christian king of Ethiopia when his family was slated to be killed by the people of Arabia. He said "they (Ethiopians) are rightious".

Heordotus stated "the blameless Ethiopians" and "God dwells at there festivals".

These are some interesting points I touched on in hope that it should help interested persons to see that Ethiopia has had and has great favor from all areas of the world including the ancient Hebrew world.

Starting with the 16th century much damage has been done to mask the truth about Africa and the Hebrew world; the biblical world.







I made this point to show a few reasons that support that the Ark's power is present and real.

Note this:

Italy was the only western power to fail in Africa. Italy attacked Ethiopia twice and failed both times.

Ethiopia as an independent nation was a member of the League of Nations and of the United Nations. Emporer Hiali Selassie of Ethiopia was the only head of state of the previous League of Nations still in power, alive and representing the oldest monarchy on earth in the United Nations.

Somthing to think about.
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2008, 04:17:24 PM »

I am sorry. I was not trying to be offensive. My question is this. If an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian does not believe that Ethiopia has the true Ark, is that Christian sinning? Is he in good standing in his Church?

This is the same as a person in good christian standing who does not believe that the Alter is  really Holy at all. Just the body and blood is. The Alter to people like this is just a fancy box with candles on it. Are such sinful?

I am not trying to run around your question. It is a good question. I want to have you entertain the implication of such a question. The answer is really not a simple yes or no.
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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2008, 04:30:04 PM »

This is the same as a person in good christian standing who does not believe that the Alter is  really Holy at all. Just the body and blood is. The Alter to people like this is just a fancy box with candles on it. Are such sinful?

I am not trying to run around your question. It is a good question. I want to have you entertain the implication of such a question. The answer is really not a simple yes or no.

I guess the topic is hard for me to wrap my mind around since I, as a Latin, don't have to deal with where the true Ark of the covenant is because, in our theology, the old has been replaced by the new, the blessed Theotokos. Since I come to the situation from the outside, I suppose I just didn't realize how serious a matter this was to your Church. I certainly apologize if my post came off as offensive in any way.
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2008, 05:12:28 PM »

I, as a Latin
Nobody cares.
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« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2008, 05:32:29 PM »

I am sorry I do not know this answer.

TV docu's are in the business of teaching for money not for truth.

Truth is provided free of charge.

God bless you.

Fr.Deacon Amdetsion...
It so true there in the business to make money......Does the Holy Ethiopian Orthodox Church say that The Most Holy Mother Of God...Holy Mary is the new ark and how would i put it  a fullfilment of the ancient Holy ark God dwelled among us...Forgive me i hope this makes sense in what im trying to ask....Also the ancient Ark was it considered God's earthly dwelling place or was it considered his judgment seat here on earth......stanislav......SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2008, 05:46:49 PM »

The Smithsonian article says that the ark was taken to Ethiopia during the reign of Solomon.  However, II Chronicles 35:1-6 says it was still in Jerusalem during Josiah's time (about 600 BC.)  It could have been taken there after Jerusalem fell, but couldn't have been taken by the queen of Sheba's son.
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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2008, 06:12:40 PM »

What do they know there out to make money ... i rather believe the the church.....Ethiopia Has it's ancient oral and written traditions about the ark thats been past down for centurys ....The Holy Orthodox Church the Bride of Christ is not in the business of lying about something they hold very dear and sacred...For the Church is there to save souls not to lead them astray.........my 2 cents worth....stanislav........................SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2008, 06:13:16 PM »

SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2008, 07:06:53 PM »

^ Can I quote  you?
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2008, 07:54:44 PM »

Αριστοκλής, my thoughts exactly!

The Holy Orthodox Church the Bride of Christ is not in the business of lying about something they hold very dear and sacred... For the Church is there to save souls not to lead them astray.

Quite a nice two-cents, Stashko!  Wink  Thanks!
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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2008, 08:08:51 PM »

Nobody cares.

No need to be rude, George.    Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2008, 08:13:25 PM »

Nobody cares.
Why are you stalking me. I mean, I would be flattered but its getting weird.
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2008, 08:15:45 PM »

No need to be rude, George.    Smiley

To be fair, it seems that his response has to be considered within the wider context of certain other and completely independent discussions taking place elsewhere on the forum.
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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2008, 08:20:35 PM »

Why are you stalking me. I mean, I would be flattered but its getting weird.

EA has a point.  To be honest, I haven't been keeping up with all of the threads Papist and ozgeorge have been posting in, as I only have so much time.  Let's drop the subject here and keep whatever tensions exist from other threads out of here.

Thank you everyone for your anticipated cooperation.   Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2008, 08:28:43 PM »

I guess the topic is hard for me to wrap my mind around since I, as a Latin, don't have to deal with where the true Ark of the covenant is because, in our theology, the old has been replaced by the new, the blessed Theotokos.

In our theology the old has not been replaced by the new; rather, it has been fulfilled by the new. That the Ark of the Convenant was a true type of the Holy Virgin is certainly no less acknowledged by us. In the Sunday Theotokia of the Midnight Praise (or Vigil service) we chant:

[The Holy Virgin] passed all her life in holiness,
As the True Ark of the Covenant,
Which was made of incorruptible wood,
And overlaid with gold from within and without.
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« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2008, 10:06:54 PM »

All parish churches worldwide has a consecrated replica of the 'tablets' of Moses on the Alter. These are the means by which a church is consecrated.. Without a 'true' Tabot' (pronounced Tah-bewt) or tablet of Moses then the Church is not holy and thus cannot contain the body of Christ in it.

Of course this is not to say that if all other traditions are without a Tabot than they are not holy. This is the burden of the Ethiopian Church community since we are the keepers and custodians of the true Ark.


Thank you, Father Amdetsion.  This was exactly the information I was looking for.  Smiley
As always, it is so helpful to have your input available here.
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« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2008, 10:08:08 PM »

In our theology the old has not been replaced by the new; rather, it has been fulfilled by the new.


Amen.  And thank you for sharing that beautiful hymn!
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« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2008, 03:11:30 PM »

I guess the topic is hard for me to wrap my mind around since I, as a Latin, don't have to deal with where the true Ark of the covenant is because, in our theology, the old has been replaced by the new, the blessed Theotokos. Since I come to the situation from the outside, I suppose I just didn't realize how serious a matter this was to your Church. I certainly apologize if my post came off as offensive in any way.

I understand and thanks.

May I ask:

What is the difference between the True Ark of God and the Theotokos?
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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

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« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2008, 03:12:57 PM »

In our theology the old has not been replaced by the new; rather, it has been fulfilled by the new. That the Ark of the Convenant was a true type of the Holy Virgin is certainly no less acknowledged by us. In the Sunday Theotokia of the Midnight Praise (or Vigil service) we chant:

[The Holy Virgin] passed all her life in holiness,
As the True Ark of the Covenant,
Which was made of incorruptible wood,
And overlaid with gold from within and without.


Amen.
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"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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