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Author Topic: Looking for sheet music.  (Read 4838 times) Average Rating: 0
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Andrew21091
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« on: November 30, 2007, 11:31:46 PM »

I'm looking for the sheet music for "O Pure Virgin" in Byzantine Notation. Could someone help me out with this? If the Divine Liturgies Music Project has it, I can't seem to find it.

Thanks
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 11:36:40 PM »

The only place I've seen the Byzantine Notation is as the last piece in the "Psalterion Terpnon" from the Monastery of Simonopetra.  Since they're the ones who actually put it to music (St. Nektarios wrote the poem), it makes sense.  I've never seen it anywhere else in sheet music.

I wish I had a working scanner, because I could scan my photocopy of the original and email it to you.  Alas, no scan, so no send.
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 11:38:08 PM »

Hello,

I'm looking for the sheet music for "O Pure Virgin" in Byzantine Notation. Could someone help me out with this? If the Divine Liturgies Music Project has it, I can't seem to find it.

Thanks

Must it be in Byzantine Notation? Here is one I found that is the Plagal of the First Tone - but it is in Western Notation. O Pure Virgin - Plagal of Tone One

Here is one in Tone Five, again Western Notation. O Pure Virgin - Tone Five

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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 11:43:59 PM »

Yeah, it does kind of have to be in Byzantine. I don't know anything about Western notation. Thanks for the links though.

Also, thanks for your comment also Cleveland.
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 11:52:57 PM »

Here is a good place to look for it and for any Byzantine Music on the web: http://stanthonysmonastery.org/music/Links.htm
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 11:54:39 PM »

Hello,

Must it be in Byzantine Notation? Here is one I found that is the Plagal of the First Tone - but it is in Western Notation. O Pure Virgin - Plagal of Tone One

Here is one in Tone Five, again Western Notation. O Pure Virgin - Tone Five 

Theoretically Tone Five is Plagal of Tone One.  We Byzantine Music purists don't like using "Tone Five", because it makes it sound as if it has no relationship to Tone One (which it most certainly does!).

Anyway, the only Tone I've heard or seen "O Pure Virgin" written in is Plagal of the First/Tone Five.


{Unrelated side note: definition of "plagal" - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagal  If anyone actually cares, we can talk about how this definition is spot-on.}
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 11:59:17 PM »

Hello,

Yeah, it does kind of have to be in Byzantine. I don't know anything about Western notation. Thanks for the links though.

Also, thanks for your comment also Cleveland.

Interesting, usually it is the other way around.

Perhaps someone here knows how to translate from Western to Byzantine Notation. (Even though I have the computer tools to do so, I'm not that good at Byzantine Notation to translate, sorry Sad)
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 12:01:20 AM »

Hello,

{Unrelated side note: definition of "plagal" - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagal  If anyone actually cares, we can talk about how this definition is spot-on.}


I'll be better qualified to answer this after I get into my Music Theory courses in the next few semesters. Wink
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 12:02:11 AM »

Hello,

Theoretically Tone Five is Plagal of Tone One.  We Byzantine Music purists don't like using "Tone Five", because it makes it sound as if it has no relationship to Tone One (which it most certainly does!).

Anyway, the only Tone I've heard or seen "O Pure Virgin" written in is Plagal of the First/Tone Five.

I was thinking they were the same, but they were slightly different. But, that could be because one is written for multiple voices.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 12:12:50 AM »

Hello,

Interesting, usually it is the other way around.

Heh, yeah, I am unique in that field. I'm training in Byzantine chant in my church and we use Byzantine notation, so I've recently known how to read it.
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 12:15:23 AM »

Must it be in Byzantine Notation? Here is one I found that is the Plagal of the First Tone - but it is in Western Notation. O Pure Virgin - Plagal of Tone One
Please never ever, if you have any love for this hymn or your fellow Christians, ever ever use this setting.
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 12:18:58 AM »

Hello,

Please never ever, if you have any love for this hymn or your fellow Christians, ever ever use this setting.

At this time I don't have a good ability to look at a sheet of music and know what it sounds like, so you'll have to explain it to me. What's wrong with it?
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 12:27:11 AM »

At this time I don't have a good ability to look at a sheet of music and know what it sounds like, so you'll have to explain it to me. What's wrong with it?

Well first off it does something that is just murder on the years and that a lot of western trained composer always like to do with Byzantine Music - The melody is assigned to the female voices. The music always ends up getting sung way too high, it needs to be taken down at least a half to a full octave to be in the true range. 

Second is the part that is assigned to the men just becomes distracting because, A) It is harmony and not ison and B) It will overshadow the beautiful words of the hymn because of how it is composed and layered.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2007, 09:50:25 AM »

Well first off it does something that is just murder on the years and that a lot of western trained composer always like to do with Byzantine Music - The melody is assigned to the female voices. The music always ends up getting sung way too high, it needs to be taken down at least a half to a full octave to be in the true range. 

Second is the part that is assigned to the men just becomes distracting because, A) It is harmony and not ison and B) It will overshadow the beautiful words of the hymn because of how it is composed and layered.

Amen.
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2007, 10:44:22 AM »

Hello,

Well first off it does something that is just murder on the years and that a lot of western trained composer always like to do with Byzantine Music - The melody is assigned to the female voices. The music always ends up getting sung way too high, it needs to be taken down at least a half to a full octave to be in the true range. 

Second is the part that is assigned to the men just becomes distracting because, A) It is harmony and not ison and B) It will overshadow the beautiful words of the hymn because of how it is composed and layered.

So in this particular piece - is it the base music or merely the arrangement that is at issue?
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2007, 08:14:34 PM »

Hello,

So in this particular piece - is it the base music or merely the arrangement that is at issue?

Both! It is just a bad attempt at interpreting the piece.
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2007, 09:03:59 PM »

Hello,

Both! It is just a bad attempt at interpreting the piece.

How about the second one I linked - someone mentioned that they were the same tone?
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 09:49:32 PM »

Both! It is just a bad attempt at interpreting the piece.

Correction:  it is not an "interpretation" but an innovation or modification of the original.  I think it was this same Serbian composer who composed a nice, rather new Cherubic hymn that a group I'm part of will be releasing soon...but he shouldn't have bothered with the modification above (the "Tone 5" version).

The old Fr. John Finley stuff are the worst transgressions to Byzantine music.  Some of the other arrangements basically just turn well-known Troparia and Prosomia into western or modern Russian sounding hymns - ok (as in not great), but still better left alone.  Recently, I stumbled onto liturgica.com where Fr. Apostolos Hill is singing the St. Romanos melody (I think it is the nativity Expostalaria - can't quite remember) is kinda a pop-like style with almost like a guitar ison and glissandos (e.g. how pop-starts scoop up to a note instead of just hitting it dead on.  Sounds a bit weird, almost creepy.
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2007, 09:51:37 PM »

Btw, for the second link, you could always and contact the good bishop who transcribed and translated it.  Maybe he has a Byzantine notation version as well.
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2007, 11:02:06 PM »

I would be more than happy to provide you the music, in scanned form. 

I PM'd you, so respond if interested. 
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 04:26:06 PM »

http://www.networks-now.net/litresswraoc/Music%20Files/OPureVirgin(Gr).PDF

Here it is in Greek, with Byzantine notation.  I can't find it in English with Byzantine notation.
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2007, 07:08:13 PM »

Thanks for posting this. Serb1389 scanned the music from a book me a while ago in Greek. Having it in Greek is better for me actually because I'm trying to learn it.
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 07:14:25 PM »

Hi,

I have it in English and Byzantine notation.

PM me and I will send it.

In Christ,

SBDK
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