Author Topic: Holy Water and Oil  (Read 12983 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline prodromas

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,239
  • Greek Orthodox
Holy Water and Oil
« on: September 26, 2007, 09:51:29 AM »
I have been told by my parents and grandparents that holy water blessed by an Orthodox priest first of all contains special healing properties but I have recently heard that scientists tested the water and could find no trace of bacteria. Is this true and is there any other freaky properties of Holy water and Oil
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,082
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2007, 10:07:25 AM »
I can't attest to the bacterial content, but our Liturgics professor described the Holy Water, blessed Oil, and Antidoron the same way (but he didn't include the Myhrr/Chrism or Communion in this discussion) - that they have been "perfected" by the working of the Spirit - i.e. that the water becomes what it was and should have been without corruption.  This is why we consider it Holy and Sanctified - all water has the Spirit, but the sanctifying action makes it holy and unblemished, and that is why we show it so much respect.  This is what became so powerful about the Jordan River - the entire body of water had this sanctification occur thanks to the Theophany event.

I don't know if this helps.
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline ma2000

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 287
  • Saint Anthony The Great
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2007, 11:59:03 AM »
I have been told by my parents and grandparents that holy water blessed by an Orthodox priest first of all contains special healing properties but I have recently heard that scientists tested the water and could find no trace of bacteria. Is this true and is there any other freaky properties of Holy water and Oil

I've read about it in some magazine. There are still bacteria, but their number is much smaller.

The Holy Water is still drinkable after a long time.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 12:00:09 PM by ma2000 »
Asemănându-te obiceiurilor râvnitorului Ilie şi urmând Botezătorului pe drepte cărări, Părinte Antonie, te-ai făcut locuitor pustiului şi ai întărit lumea cu rugăciunile tale. Pentru aceasta, roagă-te lui Hristos Dumnezeu, să mântuiască sufletele noastre.

Offline orthodoxlurker

  • Supporter & Defender of Fr Ambrose (Irish Hermit) - banned
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,372
  • al-Saabir yaraa al-Hurriyah
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 01:41:34 PM »
I've read about it in some magazine. There are still bacteria, but their number is much smaller.

The Holy Water is still drinkable after a long time.
It's well-known.

The Holy Water (that one sanctified by an Orthodox priest only) can be drank for a veeeeery long time.

There is no need of closing the bottle or glass with the Holy Water. Perhaps only a piece of paper to be placed on top of it, to prevent dust or insects to enter. There is o need of holding it into refrigirator.

It lasts for weeks. They say months, but I have never tested it.

"Simple" water in that fashion can't last more than 48 hours out of refrigirator, and not even more than 24 hours in open bottles. It causes diarea and other stomach illness, even diseases.

You can test it, if you want. Everyone can.

How does it happen? It's a Holy Mistery. One of the seven.
Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,082
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 01:55:59 PM »
How does it happen? It's a Holy Mistery. One of the seven. 

Well, it's not normally associated as one of the Seven Mysteries (Baptism, Chrismation, Eucharist, Unction, Confession, Ordination, Marriage), it really probably should be considered a sacrament of the church (it has an explicit epiclesis, it is mostly restricted to baptized Orthodox, etc.) along with the funeral.
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline ma2000

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 287
  • Saint Anthony The Great
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 02:42:30 PM »
It's well-known.

The Holy Water (that one sanctified by an Orthodox priest only) can be drank for a veeeeery long time.

There is no need of closing the bottle or glass with the Holy Water. Perhaps only a piece of paper to be placed on top of it, to prevent dust or insects to enter. There is o need of holding it into refrigirator.

It lasts for weeks. They say months, but I have never tested it.

"Simple" water in that fashion can't last more than 48 hours out of refrigirator, and not even more than 24 hours in open bottles. It causes diarea and other stomach illness, even diseases.

You can test it, if you want. Everyone can.

How does it happen? It's a Holy Mistery. One of the seven.

I can testify that it lasts longer than a year. I still have Holy Water from Life-giving Spring Feast this year.
I've read that someone from Transylvania keeps Holy Water blessed by Fr Arsenie Boca in the 40's. Every year he adds Holy Water blessed by the priest to it. And it is stil drinkable.
Asemănându-te obiceiurilor râvnitorului Ilie şi urmând Botezătorului pe drepte cărări, Părinte Antonie, te-ai făcut locuitor pustiului şi ai întărit lumea cu rugăciunile tale. Pentru aceasta, roagă-te lui Hristos Dumnezeu, să mântuiască sufletele noastre.

Offline Thomas06

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 02:50:47 PM »
I've tasted Holy Water, that I brought home from my Parish, over a year later & it was still fresh. I also like the way my Priest refers to it- "Restored Water"- It has been returned to the perfection creation enjoyed, before the fall.

Offline Simayan

  • Site Supporter
  • High Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 06:40:41 PM »
Though Holy Water is indeed Holy, we must be careful not to think of it as a magical cure-all that will always work.

We usually use our old Holy Water on our plants once we get some more. I have to say, I've seen some substantial improvements than just using regular water.

Our priest said something interesting, though, that one drop of Holy Water will sanctify a bucket of normal water. I don't really believe that, but has anyone heard it from someone else?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 06:40:55 PM by Simayan »
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,794
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 07:12:25 PM »
Well, it's not normally associated as one of the Seven Mysteries (Baptism, Chrismation, Eucharist, Unction, Confession, Ordination, Marriage), it really probably should be considered a sacrament of the church (it has an explicit epiclesis, it is mostly restricted to baptized Orthodox, etc.) along with the funeral.

We call holy water a "sacramental." It's wonderful to see this discussion---I was not aware holy water was a big part of EO tradition.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 07:14:23 PM by lubeltri »

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,253
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 10:20:12 PM »
I was not aware holy water was a big part of EO tradition.

 ??? ??? ???

Truly...this is astounding, given that you've earlier stated you were familiar with EO beliefs and worship.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 11:42:51 PM »
Quote
Truly...this is astounding, given that you've earlier stated you were familiar with EO beliefs and worship.

In the US one is not likely to encounter a holy water blessing outside of Epiphany and a few other selected times.  So it is possible for one to attend a great many Orthodox liturgies and never come into contact with holy water - whereas one really can't enter a Catholic parish without noticing it, although in some newer American parishes this practice is kind of changing.  I've honestly never seen anything in the states like I what I have seen in the old world, an almost holy water on tap in the back of a church and a constant stream of old ladies filling up all sorts of jars, bottles and whatever will hold water. 

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,253
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 12:04:48 AM »
In the US one is not likely to encounter a holy water blessing outside of Epiphany and a few other selected times. 

Gotta disagree with you there...I used holy water three times this week alone in house blessings/icon blessings/car blessings, and had requests from two parishioners for holy water from our 'supply'...

I think the big thing is someone has to involve yourself with the parish outside of the Liturgy, which Lubeltri's comments of his studies of EO traditions have apparently not penetrated.

  I've honestly never seen anything in the states like I what I have seen in the old world, an almost holy water on tap in the back of a church and a constant stream of old ladies filling up all sorts of jars, bottles and whatever will hold water. 

In my parish, its the younger guys (30's and younger) who keep requesting the holy water. The 'old ladies' as you term them tend to go to the Old World for their supply..the young guys probably don't think that far ahead to visit Tinos in the first few weeks of August, etc.  ;)
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 01:02:11 AM »
Quote
Gotta disagree with you there...I used holy water three times this week alone in house blessings/icon blessings/car blessings, and had requests from two parishioners for holy water from our 'supply'...

That is sort of my point.  Those cases are specially requested and outside the norm.  i.e it is very conceivable for a normal Orthodox person in the US only be exposed to a holy water blessing a handful of times a year to holy water. 

Quote
I think the big thing is someone has to involve yourself with the parish outside of the Liturgy, which Lubeltri's comments of his studies of EO traditions have apparently not penetrated.

And I'd agree that if one is to study Orthodoxy, then one must go beyond basics.  But, I know plenty of Orthodox families here that rarely use holy water outside of the major liturgical functions.  I'd hardly call them atypical or less Orthodox, and if one's experience is with Orthodox people like that the conclusion that Orthodox people tend to use holy water less frequently that Catholics isn't that unreasonable.   

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 01:21:58 AM »
And I'd agree that if one is to study Orthodoxy, then one must go beyond basics.  But, I know plenty of Orthodox families here that rarely use holy water outside of the major liturgical functions.  I'd hardly call them atypical or less Orthodox, and if one's experience is with Orthodox people like that the conclusion that Orthodox people tend to use holy water less frequently that Catholics isn't that unreasonable.   
I certainly use Holy Water much less frequently than I should. :-[
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,253
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 01:26:43 AM »
That is sort of my point.  Those cases are specially requested and outside the norm.  i.e it is very conceivable for a normal Orthodox person in the US only be exposed to a holy water blessing a handful of times a year to holy water. 

While I attended a Catholic parish for several years, I can only think of once or twice a year I would encounter holy water use in those Catholic parishes. In fact, one of my first encounters with Orthodoxy is when I joined with a group of Catholics who needed holy water---it was much easier to go to the Orthodox church and get some than our own parish. We would be amazed at how often they had use of holy water!

And I'd agree that if one is to study Orthodoxy, then one must go beyond basics.  But, I know plenty of Orthodox families here that rarely use holy water outside of the major liturgical functions.  I'd hardly call them atypical or less Orthodox, and if one's experience is with Orthodox people like that the conclusion that Orthodox people tend to use holy water less frequently that Catholics isn't that unreasonable.   

Well, from my perspective, when my wife was Catholic and I was studying for potential entry, the use of holy water was not nearly as frequent as it is among the Orthodox. No one in my wife's family had holy water (and still does not), and except it being present in the small basins of one parish that was constructed prior to Vat II, holy water simply was not available. To ask for it you'd literally have to wait a week for a priest to provide it, and it was always a problem to obtain it.

When I thik about it, I wonder if the priests involved thought we were 'up to something' with the holy water we were requesting. He sure didn't seem to want us to have any....

I wonder if part of the alleged variance in use among the Orthodox is due to local parish situations and traditions---do the Greeks and Antiochians use more holy water than the Slavs? Which side did the Romanians fall to? (since they tend to 'pick and choose' to their own advantage among the Mediterranean/Slavic Orthodox traditions--perhaps an example we in the US may wish to follow?)

OTOH--is it just a local thing, based on where the 'founders' of the Greek parish came from. F'rinstance, most of the original families of my parish came from Tsitalia, but we use holy water as often as we did in my other parishes, which varied from an 'islands' parish to another parish where folks were from Thessaloniki---maybe this isn't that much of a factor, but it is still something to look at when you observe how local Greek customs may have been transplanted to the US and adopted by the whole parish.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,253
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 01:29:14 AM »
I certainly use Holy Water much less frequently than I should. :-[

We all do! My kids keep me on my toes by putting a flask of holy water in our medicine cabinet; Sophaki will insist on a little bit of holy water when she takes any medicine, and will 'remind' (i.e, nag) her sister, brothers, and parents to do the same when they take any medicine.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline ma2000

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 287
  • Saint Anthony The Great
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 05:08:32 AM »
Which side did the Romanians fall to? (since they tend to 'pick and choose' to their own advantage among the Mediterranean/Slavic Orthodox traditions--perhaps an example we in the US may wish to follow?)

In the country churches that I've seen, they don't have Holy Water. But people come to the church on January 6th and on the Feast of the Life-Giving Spring and take large amounts of water. We got 5 liters this year only on the Feast of the Life-Giving Spring ! :D
In the city churches in Bucharest, there are special pots with Holy Water where everyone can fill his bottle.
In the monasteries with many visitors, they have large barrels of Holy Water
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 05:56:39 AM by ma2000 »
Asemănându-te obiceiurilor râvnitorului Ilie şi urmând Botezătorului pe drepte cărări, Părinte Antonie, te-ai făcut locuitor pustiului şi ai întărit lumea cu rugăciunile tale. Pentru aceasta, roagă-te lui Hristos Dumnezeu, să mântuiască sufletele noastre.

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,379
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2007, 07:15:11 AM »
I have two 15 litre bottles of spring water delivered each week which serves as our drinking water.
I use a ceramic dispenser on a stand. Every time I obtain some holy water, I add some to the water in the ceramic stand, so our drinking water is in fact Holy Water. Holy Water always seems to taste fresh and sweet.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Thomas06

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2007, 11:34:07 AM »

Our priest said something interesting, though, that one drop of Holy Water will sanctify a bucket of normal water. I don't really believe that, but has anyone heard it from someone else?


I've heard that, although my priest has told me that there isn't any need. Just bring my container to any liturgy, and get it filled- there's always extra kept at the church.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:34:59 AM by Thomas06 »

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,794
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2007, 11:39:49 AM »
??? ??? ???

Truly...this is astounding, given that you've earlier stated you were familiar with EO beliefs and worship.

Well, now that I think of it, I do remember seeing it once. I haven't been to a Divine Liturgy in several years. It took a while to "hit" me (pun intended).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:45:27 AM by lubeltri »

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,794
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2007, 11:45:06 AM »
Gotta disagree with you there...I used holy water three times this week alone in house blessings/icon blessings/car blessings, and had requests from two parishioners for holy water from our 'supply'...

I think the big thing is someone has to involve yourself with the parish outside of the Liturgy, which Lubeltri's comments of his studies of EO traditions have apparently not penetrated.

No, I was not a member of any Orthodox parish, of course, though I occasionally went to Divine Liturgy. So I am definitely not familiar with many EO extra-liturgical traditions. I hope I've never given the impression that I have extensive knowledge across broad areas of EO tradition. Much of what I know I learned through my historical study. One of the reasons I'm here is to learn more.

Is there anything in EO practice like the Asperges? I love this part of the Mass, though I sometimes forget to close my missal and it gets splattered (though now that I think of it, a missal splattered in holy water is not a bad thing).

This is an interesting article about holy water fonts in the Catholic Encyclopedia. It includes much discussion on the Eastern practice.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07433a.htm
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:55:34 AM by lubeltri »

Offline Ian Lazarus

  • The Main Man!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,545
  • yIjah, Qey' 'oH!
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2007, 01:26:50 PM »
I know that Roman Catholics dip their fingers in holy water before entering the sanctuary and  make the sign of the cross.  I recently came across a parish (ROCOR) where I saw a photo of a woman diping her thumb in the lampada over the Virgin Icon, and crossing her forehead with it.  I found it to be interesting, as I've never seen that before.  Oh, anointing of holy oil, yes, but never from a vigil lamp.  is that standard practice anywhere in particular? 
"For I am With thee, withersoever thou goest"

Joshua 1:9

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2007, 01:39:41 PM »
Oh, anointing of holy oil, yes, but never from a vigil lamp.  is that standard practice anywhere in particular? 

Seen it all over the Orthodox world, especially if the vigil lamp is in front of a Wonderworking Icon. Very common.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,462
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2007, 01:40:15 PM »


Is there anything in EO practice like the Asperges?

We have The Feast of Epiphany or Theophany: The Feast of Lights
You can read about it here.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8383.asp

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_water


Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2007, 01:55:33 PM »
Is there anything in EO practice like the Asperges?

There are two different services celebrated to bless/"create" Holy Water. During both services Holy Water is used in two ways: (1) it is sprinkled by the priest on people and things as a blessing, and (2) it is consumed by the Faithful for healing of soul and body.

Holy Water is used in the same manner whenever a priest blesses something (e.g. when he comes to a home for a house blessing). Usually, this happens once a year around Theophany -- or, on demand, if there is a particular spiritual need. In certain traditions, sprinkling is even more common. For example, in the Romanian tradition, Holy Water is sprinkled during most any blessing (e.g. of Icons, farm animals, new cars). In my experience, the prayer is read, the priest sprinkles the object and then sprinkles everyone in attendance. Some Antiochian parishes I have attended also sprinkled festal-related objects, like the pussy-willows or palms on Palm Sunday.

In short: Lots of sprinkling Holy Water. Lots of drinking Holy Water.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,794
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2007, 03:41:54 PM »
I know that Roman Catholics dip their fingers in holy water before entering the sanctuary and  make the sign of the cross. 

Yes, I always do that when entering or leaving. I dip three fingers in, make the sign of the Cross, and with the remaining holy water on my fingers, I draw a cross (or two) on my forehead.

Offline prodromas

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,239
  • Greek Orthodox
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2007, 06:43:02 PM »
Thank you everyone again for your replies! In our house my yaya (grandma) used to say it was very important to use if you were sick and for various other times and I remember how I asked her why it is still tastes fresh and she said it is a holy mystery and then proceeded to scold the Catholics for attempting to "copy" this holiness by adding salt to get the same effect (not sure how true this is lubeltri could you drop in on this).
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,379
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2007, 07:11:28 PM »
Oh, anointing of holy oil, yes, but never from a vigil lamp.  is that standard practice anywhere in particular? 

At Orthros (Matins) before the Divine Liturgy at our GO monastery Church, while the 51st psalm is slowly chanted, the Hegumen brings the relics of St. George and St. Irene Chryssovolantu out of the Sanctuary, and we line up to venerate them and he anoints us with oil from the lamp which burns in front of the Icon of the Theotokos Hodegetria which stands at the front of the nave "for healing of soul and body". This is a customary preparation for the Divine Liturgy.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Ian Lazarus

  • The Main Man!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,545
  • yIjah, Qey' 'oH!
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2007, 08:32:48 PM »
Quote
At Orthros (Matins) before the Divine Liturgy at our GO monastery Church, while the 51st psalm is slowly chanted, the Hegumen brings the relics of St. George and St. Irene Chryssovolantu out of the Sanctuary, and we line up to venerate them and he anoints us with oil from the lamp which burns in front of the Icon of the Theotokos Hodegetria which stands at the front of the nave "for healing of soul and body". This is a customary preparation for the Divine Liturgy.

Keen!
"For I am With thee, withersoever thou goest"

Joshua 1:9

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,195
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2007, 09:41:03 PM »
At Orthros (Matins) before the Divine Liturgy at our GO monastery Church, while the 51st psalm is slowly chanted, the Hegumen brings the relics of St. George and St. Irene Chryssovolantu out of the Sanctuary, and we line up to venerate them and he anoints us with oil from the lamp which burns in front of the Icon of the Theotokos Hodegetria which stands at the front of the nave "for healing of soul and body". This is a customary preparation for the Divine Liturgy.

George,

Is this the typical practice of only monastery churches?  May regular parishes have this custom, too?  If so, I'm going to request our parish priest to start doing this.  He's on a pilgrimage to Greece right now visiting various holy places.  If he brings some relics from his trip, I think this would be a wonderful thing to experience.  Who knows, we may actually get more people to come to Orthros!   :D
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,379
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2007, 09:57:16 PM »
Is this the typical practice of only monastery churches?
No. I've participated in the same practice in smaller parish churches. I think the main considerations might be practical ones, namely, the size of the congregation. Especially considering that the Faithful have already approached the Bema once in Orthros to kiss the Gospel book after the reading of the Resurrection Gospel.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,794
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2007, 01:33:38 AM »
Thank you everyone again for your replies! In our house my yaya (grandma) used to say it was very important to use if you were sick and for various other times and I remember how I asked her why it is still tastes fresh and she said it is a holy mystery and then proceeded to scold the Catholics for attempting to "copy" this holiness by adding salt to get the same effect (not sure how true this is lubeltri could you drop in on this).

This is the first time I've ever heard of that. As far as I know, the only thing added is the grace of Our Lord.

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2007, 03:36:52 AM »
This is the first time I've ever heard of that. As far as I know, the only thing added is the grace of Our Lord.

Since we all know that Catholics are graceless heretics, that obviously can't be it.   ::)

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2007, 04:12:15 AM »
Since we all know that Catholics are graceless heretics, that obviously can't be it.   ::)
Surely you speak with sarcasm. :-\
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2007, 10:09:59 PM »
Quote
Surely you speak with sarcasm.

I'm never sarcastic.  And don't call me Shirley. 

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2007, 10:14:04 PM »
I'm never sarcastic.  And don't call me Shirley. 
That would work even better in spoken conversation.  LOL! :D
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2007, 10:26:20 PM »
Yes it would have, but I'm far too much of an Airplane fan to pass it up!  The amazing (or perhaps sad) thing is my sister and I can have entire conversations composed solely of quotes from that movie. 

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2007, 10:27:19 PM »
For those who have no clue what we are talking about:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SkqlBXEMbEk

Offline Navigator

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2007, 10:55:49 AM »
Quote
prodromas: [...] then proceeded to scold the Catholics for attempting to "copy" this holiness by adding salt to get the same effect (not sure how true this is lubeltri could you drop in on this).

lubeltri: This is the first time I've ever heard of that. As far as I know, the only thing added is the grace of Our Lord.

Coming out of the shadows for the first time to comment on something I actually know something about!

Prior to the "reforms" of the Second Vatican Council -- and continuing today in communities that observe the old rites -- blessed/exorcised salt was added to the water during the ritual blessing.  Blessed salt is a Catholic sacramental - particularly popular among Eastern Europeans. It's believed to ward off evil.  (Which is why people used to toss salt over their left shoulders. "It keeps the devil away")

In any case, Catholics didn't add salt to the water to preserve it; it was just part of the exorcism ritual.

Stephen
"From silly devotions and sour faced saints, deliver us O Lord!" - Teresa of Avila

Offline RPConover

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2007, 05:12:08 PM »
I have two 15 litre bottles of spring water delivered each week which serves as our drinking water.
I use a ceramic dispenser on a stand. Every time I obtain some holy water, I add some to the water in the ceramic stand, so our drinking water is in fact Holy Water. Holy Water always seems to taste fresh and sweet.


When I was Roman Catholic I had asked the question as to whether or not adding holy water to ordinary water or vice versa renders the ordinary water 'holy'. I got answers going both ways, but usually heard from priests to just come to the church and get more. Does anyone know what the truth of this question is? I'm really just curious. My thought had been that if simple contact with holy water renders ordinary water holy, then most if not all of the water in the world ought to be holy, seeing that it has most likely come into contact with holy water if even in the most indirect way! How much of the river Jordan was sanctified by our Lord's baptism? My thought was that this water would have eventually touched all bodies of water... just an honest question I can't help but ponder!

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2007, 12:28:30 AM »
Coming out of the shadows for the first time to comment on something I actually know something about!

Prior to the "reforms" of the Second Vatican Council -- and continuing today in communities that observe the old rites -- blessed/exorcised salt was added to the water during the ritual blessing.  Blessed salt is a Catholic sacramental - particularly popular among Eastern Europeans. It's believed to ward off evil.  (Which is why people used to toss salt over their left shoulders. "It keeps the devil away")

In any case, Catholics didn't add salt to the water to preserve it; it was just part of the exorcism ritual.

Stephen
Thanks for this info, and welcome to the OCnet forum, Navigator. :)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Navigator

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Holy Water and Oil
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2007, 11:05:17 AM »
Quote
Thanks for this info, and welcome to the OCnet forum, Navigator.

Thank you, Peter.

I'm very glad to have found this forum. It's truly been a blessing.
"From silly devotions and sour faced saints, deliver us O Lord!" - Teresa of Avila